Beyond the Jade Regent


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion

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Shuriken Nekogami wrote:

heck, i want to see the long ears again too.

young elven maidens having rivalries based on 'ear length' would be entertaining. and it would be quite fun to roleplay.

it could be like modern humans and 'endowment.'

an elven woman just isn't conventionally attractive to other elves unless her ears are long. 12 inch ears get a lot of romantic priority over 6 inch ears.

Cue the elven men making up dozens of crude slang words for women's ears...


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Gregg Helmberger wrote:
Shuriken Nekogami wrote:

heck, i want to see the long ears again too.

young elven maidens having rivalries based on 'ear length' would be entertaining. and it would be quite fun to roleplay.

it could be like modern humans and 'endowment.'

an elven woman just isn't conventionally attractive to other elves unless her ears are long. 12 inch ears get a lot of romantic priority over 6 inch ears.

Cue the elven men making up dozens of crude slang words for women's ears...

Okay...

"Check out the points on those blades."

"Would you look at the length of those leaves."

"Nice antlers!"

:P


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm hoping for a City-based AP, start to finish. All volumes exploring and expanding an exciting city.
(I'm currently GMing CotCT and my players are loving running around Korvosa, I'm just worried what will happen when the "cityfolks" will be forced to adventure in the wild, without the comforts of city life!).

Absalom would be cool, the modules and the 64 page book aren't enough for this huge city. It would be awesome if this metropolis would be the centre for a whole AP.

As for other speculation, maybe Irrisen or a completely story-driven AP without ANY combat encounters at all!?

As for now I'm really excited about Jade Regent!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Montana77 wrote:

I'm hoping for a City-based AP, start to finish. All volumes exploring and expanding an exciting city.

(I'm currently GMing CotCT and my players are loving running around Korvosa, I'm just worried what will happen when the "cityfolks" will be forced to adventure in the wild, without the comforts of city life!).

Absalom would be cool, the modules and the 64 page book aren't enough for this huge city. It would be awesome if this metropolis would be the centre for a whole AP.

As for other speculation, maybe Irrisen or a completely story-driven AP without ANY combat encounters at all!?

As for now I'm really excited about Jade Regent!

You might want to check out "Council of Thieves" then—the entire Council of Thieves AP takes place on the map of the city of Westcrown and its immediate surroundings.


Montana77 wrote:
As for other speculation... a completely story-driven AP without ANY combat encounters at all!?

I'm all for trying new things, but that would be suicidal on Paizo's part.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Generic Villain wrote:
Montana77 wrote:
As for other speculation... a completely story-driven AP without ANY combat encounters at all!?
I'm all for trying new things, but that would be suicidal on Paizo's part.

More "Death through boredom." I love roleplaying encounters probably as much as or MORE than anyone at Paizo, but Pathfinder's not a peaceful game about no combat. There are other games out there to scratch that itch. Pathifnder adventures will always have a lot of good-old fighting in them.


James Jacobs wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:
Montana77 wrote:
As for other speculation... a completely story-driven AP without ANY combat encounters at all!?
I'm all for trying new things, but that would be suicidal on Paizo's part.
More "Death through boredom." I love roleplaying encounters probably as much as or MORE than anyone at Paizo, but Pathfinder's not a peaceful game about no combat. There are other games out there to scratch that itch. Pathifnder adventures will always have a lot of good-old fighting in them.

So, uh, it's been about 8 months since you said "We won't be revealing the plot and nature of the AP after Jade Regent for some time. Probably about 6 to 8 months.". Any chance you're willing to open up the oven a crack and see the bun you got cooking in there? :)


PaizoCon. ;)

Contributor

Heine Stick wrote:
PaizoCon. ;)

Yup, just like we did Carrion Crown last year. We're not about to just offhandedly announce details of a new AP on the messageboard at some random time. When we announce it, we'll make a big deal about it, have press releases, and everyone will know. So don't worry. No one's going to miss it.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

What Wes said.

Also... we don't want to announce an AP before we're 100% sure that it's the AP we are for sure for REAL going with. We announced Jade Regent early a few years ago, and then for various reasons when it turned out we couldn't do it at that time, we had to backpedal. Caused a fair amount of confusion.

Lesson Learned: Don't announce APs until you're sure for SURE. And I'm glad we haven't announced the next AP in the last month, since the one we were 97% sure would be the one following Jade Regent sort of fell apart once we started to build it, causing us to shift to an entirely different AP anyway.

Also: PaizoCon is a great time for those kinds of announcements anyway.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:

What Wes said.

Also... we don't want to announce an AP before we're 100% sure that it's the AP we are for sure for REAL going with. We announced Jade Regent early a few years ago, and then for various reasons when it turned out we couldn't do it at that time, we had to backpedal. Caused a fair amount of confusion.

Lesson Learned: Don't announce APs until you're sure for SURE. And I'm glad we haven't announced the next AP in the last month, since the one we were 97% sure would be the one following Jade Regent sort of fell apart once we started to build it, causing us to shift to an entirely different AP anyway.

Also: PaizoCon is a great time for those kinds of announcements anyway.

I'd like to hear that story sometime.


James Jacobs wrote:

What Wes said.

Also... we don't want to announce an AP before we're 100% sure that it's the AP we are for sure for REAL going with. We announced Jade Regent early a few years ago, and then for various reasons when it turned out we couldn't do it at that time, we had to backpedal. Caused a fair amount of confusion.

Lesson Learned: Don't announce APs until you're sure for SURE. And I'm glad we haven't announced the next AP in the last month, since the one we were 97% sure would be the one following Jade Regent sort of fell apart once we started to build it, causing us to shift to an entirely different AP anyway.

Also: PaizoCon is a great time for those kinds of announcements anyway.

Ah, I see. So does that mean the AP after Jade Regent is not the highly experimental one you guys had planned?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

E I wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

What Wes said.

Also... we don't want to announce an AP before we're 100% sure that it's the AP we are for sure for REAL going with. We announced Jade Regent early a few years ago, and then for various reasons when it turned out we couldn't do it at that time, we had to backpedal. Caused a fair amount of confusion.

Lesson Learned: Don't announce APs until you're sure for SURE. And I'm glad we haven't announced the next AP in the last month, since the one we were 97% sure would be the one following Jade Regent sort of fell apart once we started to build it, causing us to shift to an entirely different AP anyway.

Also: PaizoCon is a great time for those kinds of announcements anyway.

Ah, I see. So does that mean the AP after Jade Regent is not the highly experimental one you guys had planned?

Ummm...

Jade Regent IS a highly experimental AP. The initial push for the one after Jade Regent was for a super "NON-experimental" AP—something more baseline even than, say, Rise of the Runelords or Council of Thieves. It didn't work out, though, partially because it was TOO conventional. We just couldn't work up the overall excitement or interest among the design and management teams to follow it through.

Since then, the AP we're developing INSTEAD is back in the relatively experimental category. Which is probably a good thing, honestly, since Paizo has a really good track record with APs when we get experimental in one way or another.

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut

James Jacobs wrote:
Since then, the AP we're developing INSTEAD is back in the relatively experimental category. Which is probably a good thing, honestly, since Paizo has a really good track record with APs when we get experimental in one way or another.

As always, color me interested...

Just sayin'... ;-)


James Jacobs wrote:
Enlight_Bystand wrote:
drayen wrote:
I would love to see an AP in Taldor. Make it your experimental AP for the year. It could be based on the intracacies of Taldan society where role play would be stressed and combat would be of tertiary concern. A social AP would be a great change. Combat outside of an occasional duel or a singular rescue mission shouldn't be necessary in such a campaign. Taldor is a hive of scum and villiany dressed in the latest fashions with the best educations and most noble breeding. You haven't faced a true hag until you've been slashed by the razor sharp wit of an elderly matron.
As above, Jade Regent is the experimental AP for the 2011/12 cycle, so the later one will be reasonably standard.

Not necessarily.

The "experimental/safe" route for APs is something that was important when we first started Pathfinder, but with each AP in the can and with each experimental AP being more popular than the "safe" ones, expect us to shift this around. After all, Serpent's Skull and Carrion Crown are both what I'd call "Safe" APs and they're back to back.

What I've got planned after Jade Regent is, perhaps, the most experimental topic for an AP we've done yet.

I realizing I'm using a quote from quite a few months ago, but that last line was what I was referring to. I had thought you had scrapped that idea. My bad.

Dark Archive

Quote:

What I've got planned after Jade Regent is, perhaps, the most experimental topic for an AP we've done yet.

Well, if I was going experiemental, i would do the following

1. An AP based in the mana wastes (Geb, Nex zones)
2. Introduction to the Tinker class or prestige class
3. Gnome underground waterworks city nesr the coast of the Obari
4. Clockworks & Automatons
5. Psrty hauler Zepplins & single person flying war craft
6. Mutated gunnsmith orcs & gnolls in platemail
7. Dwarf & goblin shocktrooper armies defending the gunworks
8. modification of siege warfare from the Kingmaker AP to include firearms, cannons and air to air combat rules
9. mana eating creatures/artificies (think Yalsmari(sp?) from SW)
10. introduction of mana/magic batteries (to offset the general drain of mana across the region. possibly gems made by the tinkers??). Ion stones
11. Tech league faction development / expansion
12. Torag Religion expansion treatment (if it hasnt been covered already in another AP)
13. introduction to wild magic and surges (ramdom effect tables for DMs)
14. Mecha-Godzilla for the big bad pet at the end?

PS: if you are in my Homebrew game, do not read this post! :-)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:


Ummm...

The initial push for the one after Jade Regent was for a super "NON-experimental" AP—something more baseline even than, say, Rise of the Runelords or Council of Thieves. It didn't work out, though, partially because it was TOO conventional. We just couldn't work up the overall excitement or interest among the design and management teams to follow it through.

I hope that wasn't the megadungeon... :(

Mind you, not a good sign if even the developers can't get fired up over a project, so we've probably had a narrow escape, whatever it was.


Actually, I would like to know what the criteria is for experimental over conventional. I realize it's one of those weird concepts that sometimes one more has an intuition about rather than an actual set of values that define the boundary, but if you guys actually have a good working definition, I'd like to hear it.


Personally I'm hoping for an AP set in Thuvia and possibly Osririon. Either that, or one focused around Mendev and the World Wound.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

E I wrote:
Actually, I would like to know what the criteria is for experimental over conventional. I realize it's one of those weird concepts that sometimes one more has an intuition about rather than an actual set of values that define the boundary, but if you guys actually have a good working definition, I'd like to hear it.

We don't have a definition. It's more of a gut-check.

Dark Archive

James Jacobs wrote:
E I wrote:
Actually, I would like to know what the criteria is for experimental over conventional. I realize it's one of those weird concepts that sometimes one more has an intuition about rather than an actual set of values that define the boundary, but if you guys actually have a good working definition, I'd like to hear it.

We don't have a definition. It's more of a gut-check.

Watch it. Folks may start asking for an official ruling on that ^_^


James Jacobs wrote:
E I wrote:
Actually, I would like to know what the criteria is for experimental over conventional. I realize it's one of those weird concepts that sometimes one more has an intuition about rather than an actual set of values that define the boundary, but if you guys actually have a good working definition, I'd like to hear it.

We don't have a definition. It's more of a gut-check.

Well that's just great, now I'm going to have to house rule it....

The Exchange

James Jacobs wrote:
What I've got planned after Jade Regent is, perhaps, the most experimental topic for an AP we've done yet.

Dirty... dirty... tease....

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Al'Adhin wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
What I've got planned after Jade Regent is, perhaps, the most experimental topic for an AP we've done yet.
Dirty... dirty... tease....

That quote is like 2 plans ago. That "most experimental" AP has been pushed forward into the future.

Again... all good reasons why we don't announce things about APs until we're FINALLY sure what they're going to be about.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

If my vote counts for anything, I vote for the adventure path where the playersride a flying six legged bison and overthrow the fire kingdom.

What?!?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

If my vote counts for anything, I vote for the adventure path where the playersride a flying six legged bison and overthrow the fire kingdom.

What?!?

Dale, your daily medication... ;-)


Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

If my vote counts for anything, I vote for the adventure path where the playersride a flying six legged bison and overthrow the fire kingdom.

What?!?

They serve six-legged flying bison burgers at the Minnesota State Fair. Them's good eatin'.


Gregg Helmberger wrote:
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

If my vote counts for anything, I vote for the adventure path where the playersride a flying six legged bison and overthrow the fire kingdom.

What?!?

They serve six-legged flying bison burgers at the Minnesota State Fair. Them's good eatin'.

ANCIENT PSYCHIC TANDEM WAR ELEPHANT!!!


Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Ernest Mueller wrote:
Gregg Helmberger wrote:
Dale McCoy Jr wrote:

If my vote counts for anything, I vote for the adventure path where the playersride a flying six legged bison and overthrow the fire kingdom.

What?!?

They serve six-legged flying bison burgers at the Minnesota State Fair. Them's good eatin'.
ANCIENT PSYCHIC TANDEM WAR ELEPHANT!!!

Great, the flying circus is coming to town...

...and now for something completely different.

::Cue the lumberjack::


James Jacobs wrote:


The initial push for the one after Jade Regent was for a super "NON-experimental" AP—something more baseline even than, say, Rise of the Runelords or Council of Thieves. It didn't work out, though, partially because it was TOO conventional. We just couldn't work up the overall excitement or interest among the design and management teams to follow it through.

One day in the future, I'd love to hear about some of Paizo's scrapped AP ideas. I'm trying to think of what's "too" conventional...

-An evil dragon kidnaps a princess, and the PCs have to gather the weapons to defeat him.
-An evil cult is trying to open a Portal to Hell. That's probably not good, so the cult must die!
-A dark wizard is manipulating the king. Stop that naughty wizard.
-A (bad guy) is trying to (do something bad), so the players must (kill him and all his friends).

Pretty much, anything that sounds like the plot for an early Final Fantasy game.

Sovereign Court

Ernest Mueller wrote:
Gregg Helmberger wrote:


ANCIENT PSYCHIC TANDEM WAR ELEPHANT!!!

What would you wish for Ernest "Finn" Mueller? :)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Generic Villain wrote:


One day in the future, I'd love to hear about some of Paizo's scrapped AP ideas. I'm trying to think of what's "too" conventional...

-An evil dragon kidnaps a princess, and the PCs have to gather the weapons to defeat him.

Pretty much sums it up right there.

I don't doubt that we could put out a really fun Adventure Path using this plot... but the fact that doing so would keep us from doing a plot that's more interesting to us is what basically killed that one.


change the word "dragon" to "kobold" or "goblin" and you could have a pretty good Humor adventure path there :o. Or twist it around and have the players kidnap the Princess (for a good reason!) and have to defend her from assault (tower defense) from forces of evil and forces of good in order to save the world. [/half joking]

Good luck with whatever you decide to do next.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

James Jacobs wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:


One day in the future, I'd love to hear about some of Paizo's scrapped AP ideas. I'm trying to think of what's "too" conventional...

-An evil dragon kidnaps a princess, and the PCs have to gather the weapons to defeat him.

Pretty much sums it up right there.

I don't doubt that we could put out a really fun Adventure Path using this plot... but the fact that doing so would keep us from doing a plot that's more interesting to us is what basically killed that one.

For whatever it's worth, I would love an Adventure Path that is a well-done version of this. Call me immature, but there's something about Disney plotlines that I really like. And, interestingly enough, a great way to loop in otherwise suspicious newbies.

Bring on the classics! (They're classic for a reason!)

Jon Brazer Enterprises

I'm still waiting for the AP where the final bad guy is a kobold. I mean we had an AP where the final bad guy was a bard for crying out loud. We might as well have a kobold mastermind as the final boss.


Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
I'm still waiting for the AP where the final bad guy is a kobold. I mean we had an AP where the final bad guy was a bard for crying out loud. We might as well have a kobold mastermind as the final boss.

what adventure path has a bard for final bad guy?, i'm rather new to pathfinder and have only kingmaker and serpent's skull.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

captain yesterday wrote:
what adventure path has a bard for final bad guy?

Spoiler:
Curse of the Crimson Throne. The Queen was a bard.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

I added a spoiler tag.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Ross Byers wrote:
I added a spoiler tag.

Spoiler:
oops. sorry

Light Dragon wrote:
Or twist it around and have the players kidnap the Princess (for a good reason!) and have to defend her from assault (tower defense) from forces of evil and forces of good in order to save the world.

Save the Princess. Save the World.

The Exchange

A "conventional" adventure path I'd like to see would be one where the Big Bad Guy is actually a fire-breathing dragon. Even more than saving the princess, killing the dragon is the founding myth of the hobby. I've killed too few dragons in the dozen years I've been playing this game.

I request more dragons. It wouldn't be too conventional to have an AP focused mainly on dragons, would it? One dragon + princess = yawn. But one dragon + another dragon = fire-breathing realpolitik.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Zeugma wrote:

A "conventional" adventure path I'd like to see would be one where the Big Bad Guy is actually a fire-breathing dragon. Even more than saving the princess, killing the dragon is the founding myth of the hobby. I've killed too few dragons in the dozen years I've been playing this game.

I request more dragons. It wouldn't be too conventional to have an AP focused mainly on dragons, would it? One dragon + princess = yawn. But one dragon + another dragon = fire-breathing realpolitik.

That was pretty much the idea behind one of the 1e versions of an adventure path - the original Dragonlance adventures were designed to feature one type of dragon in each module.

There were some 3.5 conversions of those old adventures sold a few years ago that you might be able to find and convert to PF, by the way. I have them, and the original 1e adventures as well, but my local player group does not care for the Dragonlance setting very much, and they know the basic story to death.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Just so folks know... we didn't shelve the dragon adventure path because we didn't think folks would enjoy it. We shelved it because WE were having a hard time getting excited and passionate about it.

The authors, developers, and editors at Paizo being passionate and exuberant about an Adventure Path is pretty much a requirement.

The Exchange

How about saving the dragon from the princess? :-P


Whited Sepulcher wrote:


How about saving the dragon from the princess? :-P

That's an idea, I just don't want to piss off the princess who can enslave a dragon though :D


An AP where a mated pair of dragons controlled things from the background and you saw wyverns and their "children" in earlier sessions would be cool. Black dragons, lizard men, half dragons, wyverns etc. from the swamp or plug in your dragon type with its normal minions could be nice.


Ernest Mueller wrote:
ANCIENT PSYCHIC TANDEM WAR ELEPHANT!!!

Booyah!

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Everything that I have seen in an AP has been pretty exciting and cool. I would love to be a fly on the wall when the team discusses ideas and details that result in that much awesome. I would probably learn more in a half hour then the 13 years of GMing I have under my belt.

As for future APs, I have a few ideas of what I would like to see. I have only seen two APs in detail so I am not sure if any of my ideas have already been in an AP.

I love a good mystery and I would enjoy something with a strong Sherlock Holmes feel to it. It could still have great fights, but killing certain NPCs might make things harder to solve the mystery. I know this might not work with an AP, due to their long nature, but the AP could be a series of mysteries tied together by one arch-villain.

An aquatic AP would be fun, something that island hops, goes underwater, and uses ship to ship combat. I want to fight a kraken, just once, and have the encounter make sense to the story. I also want to justify having a shark as an animal companion, and not worry about them being useless for the majority of the AP.

A good psychological thriller, something that really messes with the minds of the players. My best friend did this really well once in a game he ran. The main villain was a lich, and her phylactery was the core of the world (to ease any confusion, she was created by an ancient race that was experimenting with creation.) She also wanted to die, and so not only were we trying to defeat her in a way that would put her out permanently, but we had to prevent her from destroying the world. There was way more that really messed with our heads, but you get a good picture of what the campaign was like. An AP that can recreate that feeling of shock with just about every new piece of information would be really fun.

Of course, no matter what is decided upon, I know I am going to enjoy playing it.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Gambit wrote:
An AP using newly developed and balanced epic level rules, involving the PC's taking the Test of the Starstone.

Ooooh. Damn. A Legacy of Aroden AP where the 6th and final Capstone adventure as the Test of the Starstone...would be most excellent.

Maybe a mad race against a cleric of Rovagug who knows how to 'cheat' at the test and by breaking it releases his mad god?


CalebTGordan wrote:
Everything that I have seen in an AP has been pretty exciting and cool. I would love to be a fly on the wall when the team discusses ideas and details that result in that much awesome. I would probably learn more in a half hour then the 13 years of GMing I have under my belt.

I think it would be a great idea to have a video recorder in the room for the planning sessions. Once the AP is decided then the video can be posted as a podcast or something similar.

I think people would get all jacked up to watch the planning sessions!

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