New D&D 4e MMO


4th Edition


A new MMO coming from Cryptic in 2011:

Neverwinter

I always liked the graphic look of CoH, I hope they contimue with this title.


I was hoping for Darksun but I guess this will have to do.

Also I'm confused. I never played Neverwinter Nights (though I scarfed down the Baldure's Gate series). Was it an MMO?


Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

I was hoping for Darksun but I guess this will have to do.

Also I'm confused. I never played Neverwinter Nights (though I scarfed down the Baldure's Gate series). Was it an MMO?

No. Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 were both single player games that could also be played multiplayer online, but were not MMOs.

I'm not sure what this game is, really. The Cryptic page makes it sound the same - traditional with multiplayer options. It doesn't sound at all like a traditional MMO.

I'm not sure, either, how 4e can work realtime and still feel like 4e, given the sheer amount of slide, push, pull, teleport, etc powers. It would make a great turn based CRPG. I'll be watching this with interest, but given the vagueness in the announcement, the horrid track record of Atari as a D&D publisher, and the mechanics of 4e, I have reservations about how successful it will be.


Amelia wrote:
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

I was hoping for Darksun but I guess this will have to do.

Also I'm confused. I never played Neverwinter Nights (though I scarfed down the Baldure's Gate series). Was it an MMO?

No. Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2 were both single player games that could also be played multiplayer online, but were not MMOs.

I'm not sure what this game is, really. The Cryptic page makes it sound the same - traditional with multiplayer options. It doesn't sound at all like a traditional MMO.

I'm not sure, either, how 4e can work realtime and still feel like 4e, given the sheer amount of slide, push, pull, teleport, etc powers. It would make a great turn based CRPG. I'll be watching this with interest, but given the vagueness in the announcement, the horrid track record of Atari as a D&D publisher, and the mechanics of 4e, I have reservations about how successful it will be.

I'd love to see turn based myself and think 4E could do some great stuff with turn based...especially if the program added in some artistic flourishes (slowing down the action if your knocked off a ledge by a power etc.). Since so much of the 4E system plays well to cinematic scenes. That said I've not seen much turn based CRPG anytime recently. Certianly if they can choose to make you cast 3rd edition spells in real time (ala Baldur's Gate) then complexity level is not likely to give them pause for 4E.

Oh well - we can always hope for the best.


Yeah, a lot will depend on the execution of this. They've been described it less like an MMO and more like a gamed aimed at an online group of the standard D&D party size (4-5), but with a single player able to have NPC allies if they want to play through it alone.

Now, that's sorta how you could play the NWN games in the past, just with the default switched - single player with allies was assumed, but you could get some friends and play through it together online. I've heard the new one being referreed to as an Online Multiplayer Game (OMG!) as opposed to an MMO - I don't think you'll end up walking past hundreds of other players on the streets of Neverwinter. You'll just be online, with a handful of friends, or playing alone with NPCs. I think. This far out, hard to say anything for sure.

I don't think 4E will have any great issues translating to real time than. Push/Pull is pretty easy to handle. Immediates are trickier, but I imagine it will be similar to how they've automated OAs in the past - it will go off in certain circumstances without you deciding to take it. Slides are the only tricky part, but in a mobile environment less tied to a grid, some automation there won't be too big a deal.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Neverwinter wrote:
Neverwinter features co-operative multiplayer in an ever-evolving, persistent world where Dungeons & Dragons adventurers quest alongside thousands of other warriors, rogues, wizards and faithful avengers.

That sounds like an MMO to me (emphasis mine). I think they are just emphasizing that the actual game will be set up to appeal to small groups adventuring, not large raids.

I am curious how it will turn out. I played City of Heroes for a while, it was a fun experience. I was never really that interested in D&D Online, eberron just isn't my favorite setting. I always thought it was a mistake not setting it in Forgotten Realms which is way more well known and feels like D&D to those who haven't played tabletop in a long time.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

Not to derail the thread too much, but speaking of Cryptic, has anyone tried Champions Online? I haven't had the money or time for an MMO lately, but it sounded like City of Heroes 2.0. I always enjoyed making characters in the Champions RPG (even if we hardly ever actually played it), but I'm thinking it would translate well to a computer game. To bring things more on topic, does the quality of Champions Online indicate good or bad things for Neverwinter's potential?


I want a 4th edition game in the style of Disgea or Final Fantasy Tactics


deinol wrote:
Not to derail the thread too much, but speaking of Cryptic, has anyone tried Champions Online? I haven't had the money or time for an MMO lately, but it sounded like City of Heroes 2.0. I always enjoyed making characters in the Champions RPG (even if we hardly ever actually played it), but I'm thinking it would translate well to a computer game. To bring things more on topic, does the quality of Champions Online indicate good or bad things for Neverwinter's potential?

I briefly tried it. I thought it was ok, thought I like City of Heroes better. Cryptic is a solid company, and if Atari doesn't mess things up, then the game should be good. I think Cryptic is a fine choice for a developer - I can't think of a better choice that would be available for the project.


Agreed City of Heroes/Villains were both excellent, and Champions wasnt bad at all.


deinol wrote:
Neverwinter wrote:
Neverwinter features co-operative multiplayer in an ever-evolving, persistent world where Dungeons & Dragons adventurers quest alongside thousands of other warriors, rogues, wizards and faithful avengers.

That sounds like an MMO to me (emphasis mine). I think they are just emphasizing that the actual game will be set up to appeal to small groups adventuring, not large raids.

...and then there are other parts describing how there will be tools for fan made adventures and such...which does not normally make me think MMO.

I mean it could be some kind of fusion project...An MMO where the world itself is essentially created by the fan base after the initial release maybe?

More likely though some part(s) of this press release is not being exactly spot on.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Jeremy Mac Donald wrote:

...and then there are other parts describing how there will be tools for fan made adventures and such...which does not normally make me think MMO.

I mean it could be some kind of fusion project...An MMO where the world itself is essentially created by the fan base after the initial release maybe?

I'm sure there will be plenty of initial content. Getting fans to write adventures for you, that'd be interesting. I think we will start seeing more and more games like this, like how spore brings other peoples creatures into your game.

I am very curious how all of this will turn out. Developers always envision twice as many features as they can actually deliver on time.


Jack Emmert talks about Neverwinter on Gamasutra.

It's not an MMO, but is apparently more like Borderlands.

As to Champions Online, I play it and like it a lot. The anniversary event is going on right now and you can try it for free until the 6th of September.


Geistlinger wrote:

Jack Emmert talks about Neverwinter on Gamasutra.

It's not an MMO, but is apparently more like Borderlands.

As to Champions Online, I play it and like it a lot. The anniversary event is going on right now and you can try it for free until the 6th of September.

Well I can't say that interview inspires much confidence. It reads like...

Developer: We are going to make Borderlands the Fantasy co-operative game.

Interviewer: So how are you going to leverage 4E in your project?

Developer: 4E?

Interviewer: You, know...Dungeons and Dragons.

Developer: We are using the Dungeons and Dragons License? Man Wizards are so unbalanced in that game - we'll have to fix that...We'll have to make sure that our game does not go to 18th level. Wish really unbalances things. When I was in college our I played this Halfling named...


Amelia wrote:
if Atari doesn't mess things up

Unfortunately, there's only a very, very small chance Atari will not mess up - just look at their track record, especially with respect to D&D games...


Malaclypse wrote:
Amelia wrote:
if Atari doesn't mess things up
Unfortunately, there's only a very, very small chance Atari will not mess up - just look at their track record, especially with respect to D&D games...

Exactly :)


deinol wrote:
Not to derail the thread too much, but speaking of Cryptic, has anyone tried Champions Online? I haven't had the money or time for an MMO lately, but it sounded like City of Heroes 2.0. I always enjoyed making characters in the Champions RPG (even if we hardly ever actually played it), but I'm thinking it would translate well to a computer game. To bring things more on topic, does the quality of Champions Online indicate good or bad things for Neverwinter's potential?

From what I've heard, at release people would get to level 30 or so and just run out of missions, so in order to be strong enough to do the next mission you'd have to grind for a few hours. Then they tried messing with the experience system to fix it, which just made things worse, but I think they've fixed that stuff by now. Really, if they just included more content in the initial release more people would have a good opinion of the game.

So, to link that back to the main discussion, it's good to know they're at least not promising us more than they can deliver. On the other hand, only having five(?) races, five classes and the heroic tier hurts. Besides, thanks to that and their refusal to tell us the payment plan, visions of microtransactions to get the races/classes they didn't include at launch are dancing through my head, and I don't like that.

Oh, and does anyone really believe this?

Gamesutra Interview wrote:

So it didn't have anything to do with that lawsuit between Turbine and Atari.

JE: No, no, no. Nobody's asked me that before, but that's a good question. No, not at all.


I thought I was the only one that hated what Atari did. Phew!

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