Thanks! Yeah, sorry: all of that was about the plane, not the the creature. Apologies for being unclear! Thanks!
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Are there any plans to make more APs or modules geared towards high-level or mythic play, like Wrath of the Righteous? My group mostly sticks with the APs, adding custom content here and there but rarely veering off track, so we don't normally mess with fast XP tracking or anything like that. It's unlikely that I'll be able to play WotR with this group, and the highest level I've experienced in Pathfinder so far is 12 (will be higher though once we finish Legacy of Fire).
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Are there any plans to make more APs or modules geared towards high-level or mythic play, like Wrath of the Righteous? My group mostly sticks with the APs, adding custom content here and there but rarely veering off track, so we don't normally mess with fast XP tracking or anything like that. It's unlikely that I'll be able to play WotR with this group, and the highest level I've experienced in Pathfinder so far is 12 (will be higher though once we finish Legacy of Fire).
I hope to get more high-level modules in print. Adventure Paths will continue to provide play for 1st to 17th level. No plans to do any mythic adventures in either line.
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Hey, was it intentional that Paralictor Gonville Chard of the Order of the Rack (who stars in both Council of Thieves and Hell's Vengeance) appears to be named after Lieutenants John CHARD and GONVILLE Bromhead, the British commanders at at the infamous Battle of Rorke's Drift?
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I have two, very different questions:
1. Would a vampire's thirst be slaked if it consumed the blood-substitute of an android?
2. If you could choose one orison/cantrip/knack to cast in real-life 3 times per day as a spell-like ability, which spell would you pick?
I find high-level play at the table to be a lot harder and lot more time consuming. On your side, are high level modules harder to develop?
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Hey, was it intentional that Paralictor Gonville Chard of the Order of the Rack (who stars in both Council of Thieves and Hell's Vengeance) appears to be named after Lieutenants John CHARD and GONVILLE Bromhead, the British commanders at at the infamous Battle of Rorke's Drift?
As far as I know that's a coincidence. I've never heard of the Battle of Rorke's Drift. That said, Wes named the Hellknights in that case, so it's a better question to ask him.
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I have two, very different questions:
1. Would a vampire's thirst be slaked if it consumed the blood-substitute of an android?
2. If you could choose one orison/cantrip/knack to cast in real-life 3 times per day as a spell-like ability, which spell would you pick?
1. I'd say no, based 100% on thematics, and the spurious comparison of fake tasting chemically created juice and fresh fruit juice.
2. Create water.
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I find high-level play at the table to be a lot harder and lot more time consuming. On your side, are high level modules harder to develop?
Yes, because you have to account for so much more potential PC antics. For example, if you put a dead body in a dungeon for 1st level, you basically need to worry about whether or not there's useful loot on it. At higher level, things like speak with dead, animate dead, raise dead, resurrection, and the like make the simple placement of a corpse as dungeon dressing an increasingly tricky thing to do.
revisiting
still part of the setting; they're designed for use with Pathfinder, not 3.5, so there's not much of a reason to "revisit" them.
Okay, so this is something I've been mulling over. Obviously the term I've been using in my head (and now on the forums with you) is different from the one used at Paizo. Would you clarify how it's used in Paizo's terminology?
(I'm pretty certain from the context of this post I get it, but I can be silly enough that I like to see it spelled out sometimes, as a point of learning, just to be sure I'm not being super-dumb.)
Sorry for being unclear, there.
Thanks!
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Hi James. This question is going to take you back to something you probably haven't thought about in forever, so apologies in advance.
When you wrote the Demonomicon entry on Malcanthet, you listed an alternate domain for her as Healing in place of Temptation if the Fiendish Codex was not being used. Why Healing? Is it another example of trying to have at least one of the domains be unexpected to create an interesting dynamic?
Thanks for your continuing hard work!
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Greetings,
I do apologize if my question has already been asked and answered elsewhere in this thread.
I'm set to start a Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign in the early days of October (this was decided before the upcoming hardcover was moved back a month).
My question is, would it, in your opinion, be wisest of me to postpone the campaign until I have the hardcover? Or are any potential tweaks to the first part or two of Curse of the Crimson Throne #1: Edge of Anarchy minor enough that I can work with the D&D 3.5 version?
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Which demigods are you statting (or already statted) out for Bestiary 6? (Charon and Mephistopheles are among the ones announced so far; I don't know if you speak about any beyond that?)
Also, yay for more demigods.
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revisitingstill part of the setting; they're designed for use with Pathfinder, not 3.5, so there's not much of a reason to "revisit" them.Okay, so this is something I've been mulling over. Obviously the term I've been using in my head (and now on the forums with you) is different from the one used at Paizo. Would you clarify how it's used in Paizo's terminology?
(I'm pretty certain from the context of this post I get it, but I can be silly enough that I like to see it spelled out sometimes, as a point of learning, just to be sure I'm not being super-dumb.)
Sorry for being unclear, there.
Thanks!
When I say "revisit" in this case, I mean "reprint the monster's stats in a new book." The word doesn't JUST mean that though. As you've seen with our Revisited books, we also use the word to describe taking a monster that everyone's familiar with and going back to visit them again, to expand on their lore and make them fresh and contextualize them in Golarion.
For the monster you're asking about, it's hardly something I would call a "monster that everyone's familiar with."
If we do a book where it's appropriate to expand upon them more, we'll explore them more, but at this point such a book would ALSO suggest exploring all sorts of other shadow monsters we've introduced in the game, which would limit the amount of exploration something as relatively obscure as this monster is compared to, say, kytons or nightshades or shadows.
In any case... I use "revisit" here in plain english language, not in the context of an RPG rulebook where every term needs to have one and only one definition.
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Hi James. This question is going to take you back to something you probably haven't thought about in forever, so apologies in advance.
When you wrote the Demonomicon entry on Malcanthet, you listed an alternate domain for her as Healing in place of Temptation if the Fiendish Codex was not being used. Why Healing? Is it another example of trying to have at least one of the domains be unexpected to create an interesting dynamic?
Thanks for your continuing hard work!
Healing's not a domain you see associated with demons that often, and giving her Healing makes her more interesting. It also helps her priests to play the role of "fake friend" a lot better. If a supposedly helpful cleric offers to heal you and then DOES heal you, you're more likely to not suspect that cleric is a demon worshiper who's only healing your wounds so you'll stay healthy enough to be a proper sacrifice a few days down the road.
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Greetings,
I do apologize if my question has already been asked and answered elsewhere in this thread.
I'm set to start a Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign in the early days of October (this was decided before the upcoming hardcover was moved back a month).
My question is, would it, in your opinion, be wisest of me to postpone the campaign until I have the hardcover? Or are any potential tweaks to the first part or two of Curse of the Crimson Throne #1: Edge of Anarchy minor enough that I can work with the D&D 3.5 version?
Yes. There's new content in the campaign pretty much from Chapter 1, including new encounters and new artwork to show players and maps that make more sense for the old fishery and two new campaign traits. I would absolutely advise waiting.
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Which demigods are you statting (or already statted) out for Bestiary 6? (Charon and Mephistopheles are among the ones announced so far; I don't know if you speak about any beyond that?)
Also, yay for more demigods.
Bestiary 6 will have more demigods inside its covers than any other single book we've ever published. Beyond the two I've mentioned, it should come as no surprise we're not stopping at just those two—we're presenting stats for all 8 Archdevils (the 9th being Asmodeus and, at deity level, no stats work for him) and all 4 Horsemen.
There's more, though. Some will be demigods people have heard a lot about. Some will be brand new ones. Now's not the time to reveal that much more information though. Stay tuned, though!
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Which demigods are you statting (or already statted) out for Bestiary 6? (Charon and Mephistopheles are among the ones announced so far; I don't know if you speak about any beyond that?)
Also, yay for more demigods.
Bestiary 6 will have more demigods inside its covers than any other single book we've ever published. Beyond the two I've mentioned, it should come as no surprise we're not stopping at just those two—we're presenting stats for all 8 Archdevils (the 9th being Asmodeus and, at deity level, no stats work for him) and all 4 Horsemen.
There's more, though. Some will be demigods people have heard a lot about. Some will be brand new ones. Now's not the time to reveal that much more information though. Stay tuned, though!
Are you or Wes statting up the Archdevils?
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Healing's not a domain you see associated with demons that often, and giving her Healing makes her more interesting. It also helps her priests to play the role of "fake friend" a lot better. If a supposedly helpful cleric offers to heal you and then DOES heal you, you're more likely to not suspect that cleric is a demon worshiper who's only healing your wounds so you'll stay healthy enough to be a proper sacrifice a few days down the road.Hi James. This question is going to take you back to something you probably haven't thought about in forever, so apologies in advance.
When you wrote the Demonomicon entry on Malcanthet, you listed an alternate domain for her as Healing in place of Temptation if the Fiendish Codex was not being used. Why Healing? Is it another example of trying to have at least one of the domains be unexpected to create an interesting dynamic?
Thanks for your continuing hard work!
Thanks, that's what I thought!
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I've received a call from my old buddy Yeenoghu recently, His buddies tried to hook him up on a blind date multiple times with Lamashtu but said someone called licensing keeps intervening to ruin it. Whats up with that? The poor guy sounds pretty upset over it.
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It was pretty fun stating up Ithaqua. I'm the one who's statting up all of the Great Old Ones for Pathfinder, in part because I'm not intimidated by high CR stat blocks
Which demigods are you statting (or already statted) out for Bestiary 6? (Charon and Mephistopheles are among the ones announced so far; I don't know if you speak about any beyond that?)
Also, yay for more demigods.
Bestiary 6 will have more demigods inside its covers than any other single book we've ever published. Beyond the two I've mentioned, it should come as no surprise we're not stopping at just those two—we're presenting stats for all 8 Archdevils (the 9th being Asmodeus and, at deity level, no stats work for him) and all 4 Horsemen.
There's more, though. Some will be demigods people have heard a lot about. Some will be brand new ones. Now's not the time to reveal that much more information though. Stay tuned, though!
Will you be statting up the empyreal lords too? Or at least oversee said statting?
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It was pretty fun stating up Ithaqua. I'm the one who's statting up all of the Great Old Ones for Pathfinder, in part because I'm not intimidated by high CR stat blocksWill you be statting up the empyreal lords too? Or at least oversee said statting?Which demigods are you statting (or already statted) out for Bestiary 6? (Charon and Mephistopheles are among the ones announced so far; I don't know if you speak about any beyond that?)
Also, yay for more demigods.
Bestiary 6 will have more demigods inside its covers than any other single book we've ever published. Beyond the two I've mentioned, it should come as no surprise we're not stopping at just those two—we're presenting stats for all 8 Archdevils (the 9th being Asmodeus and, at deity level, no stats work for him) and all 4 Horsemen.
There's more, though. Some will be demigods people have heard a lot about. Some will be brand new ones. Now's not the time to reveal that much more information though. Stay tuned, though!
Pretty please with a raspberry on top?
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Are you or Wes statting up the Archdevils?Which demigods are you statting (or already statted) out for Bestiary 6? (Charon and Mephistopheles are among the ones announced so far; I don't know if you speak about any beyond that?)
Also, yay for more demigods.
Bestiary 6 will have more demigods inside its covers than any other single book we've ever published. Beyond the two I've mentioned, it should come as no surprise we're not stopping at just those two—we're presenting stats for all 8 Archdevils (the 9th being Asmodeus and, at deity level, no stats work for him) and all 4 Horsemen.
There's more, though. Some will be demigods people have heard a lot about. Some will be brand new ones. Now's not the time to reveal that much more information though. Stay tuned, though!
Nope.
I'm developing every monster in the book though, which as far as I know is the FIRST time we've had a single developer develop every monster in a Bestiary, which should go a LONG way toward making things all feel of a kind, unlike the disconnect between Empyreal Lords and Demon Lords that snuck into the book in Bestiary 4.
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It was pretty fun stating up Ithaqua. I'm the one who's statting up all of the Great Old Ones for Pathfinder, in part because I'm not intimidated by high CR stat blocksWill you be statting up the empyreal lords too? Or at least oversee said statting?Which demigods are you statting (or already statted) out for Bestiary 6? (Charon and Mephistopheles are among the ones announced so far; I don't know if you speak about any beyond that?)
Also, yay for more demigods.
Bestiary 6 will have more demigods inside its covers than any other single book we've ever published. Beyond the two I've mentioned, it should come as no surprise we're not stopping at just those two—we're presenting stats for all 8 Archdevils (the 9th being Asmodeus and, at deity level, no stats work for him) and all 4 Horsemen.
There's more, though. Some will be demigods people have heard a lot about. Some will be brand new ones. Now's not the time to reveal that much more information though. Stay tuned, though!
Nope. But again, as mentioned above, I'm overseeing all of the stats and developing them all (which does mean rebuilding/rewriting as needed).
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I've received a call from my old buddy Yeenoghu recently, His buddies tried to hook him up on a blind date multiple times with Lamashtu but said someone called licensing keeps intervening to ruin it. Whats up with that? The poor guy sounds pretty upset over it.
Lamashtu is from mythology, and she is thus immune to licensing. She does, in fact, appear in D&D"s cosmology, because I included a version of her in the setting. See the article about Pazuzu in Dragon Magazine I wrote for proof.
AKA: Sounds like Yeenoghu's buddies are trolling him with that licensing malarky.
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Are you or Wes statting up the Archdevils?Which demigods are you statting (or already statted) out for Bestiary 6? (Charon and Mephistopheles are among the ones announced so far; I don't know if you speak about any beyond that?)
Also, yay for more demigods.
Bestiary 6 will have more demigods inside its covers than any other single book we've ever published. Beyond the two I've mentioned, it should come as no surprise we're not stopping at just those two—we're presenting stats for all 8 Archdevils (the 9th being Asmodeus and, at deity level, no stats work for him) and all 4 Horsemen.
There's more, though. Some will be demigods people have heard a lot about. Some will be brand new ones. Now's not the time to reveal that much more information though. Stay tuned, though!
Nope.
I'm developing every monster in the book though, which as far as I know is the FIRST time we've had a single developer develop every monster in a Bestiary, which should go a LONG way toward making things all feel of a kind, unlike the disconnect between Empyreal Lords and Demon Lords that snuck into the book in Bestiary 4.
Yay! Thankies!
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Which demigods are you statting (or already statted) out for Bestiary 6? (Charon and Mephistopheles are among the ones announced so far; I don't know if you speak about any beyond that?)
Also, yay for more demigods.
Bestiary 6 will have more demigods inside its covers than any other single book we've ever published. Beyond the two I've mentioned, it should come as no surprise we're not stopping at just those two—we're presenting stats for all 8 Archdevils (the 9th being Asmodeus and, at deity level, no stats work for him) and all 4 Horsemen.
There's more, though. Some will be demigods people have heard a lot about. Some will be brand new ones. Now's not the time to reveal that much more information though. Stay tuned, though!
Holy s%~~. I was expecting two archdevils. Maybe three. But all 8? My wanting for this book just increased a thousandfold.
As for my question, exactly why all the focus on high level monsters? Is this a hint to come for more Mythic level products or maybe high level modules?
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Which demigods are you statting (or already statted) out for Bestiary 6? (Charon and Mephistopheles are among the ones announced so far; I don't know if you speak about any beyond that?)
Also, yay for more demigods.
Bestiary 6 will have more demigods inside its covers than any other single book we've ever published. Beyond the two I've mentioned, it should come as no surprise we're not stopping at just those two—we're presenting stats for all 8 Archdevils (the 9th being Asmodeus and, at deity level, no stats work for him) and all 4 Horsemen.
There's more, though. Some will be demigods people have heard a lot about. Some will be brand new ones. Now's not the time to reveal that much more information though. Stay tuned, though!
Holy s+&*. I was expecting two archdevils. Maybe three. But all 8? My wanting for this book just increased a thousandfold.
As for my question, exactly why all the focus on high level monsters? Is this a hint to come for more Mythic level products or maybe high level modules?
It's great to see that there IS a desire to see high CR creatures like Archdevils in print, since there's something of a perception around these parts that high CR monsters like that are useless. I, obviously, disagree, and hope that this book will start to prove that point more.
This book isn't intended to support Mythic at all. In fact, there are no "mythic" monsters in the book (as in no monsters with an "MR" in their CR line—there are absolutely monsters of the CR range of 21–30).
The point of this book is to skew high CR to give more support for play at higher level, though—but at the same time there's still going to be plenty of low and mid CR monsters in the book as well. One of the benefits of this being the 6th in the series is that we no longer are bound by some of the implied restrictions of the earlier ones, which really DID need to focus on gathering the classics and representing lower CRs over higher ones.
Which demigods are you statting (or already statted) out for Bestiary 6? (Charon and Mephistopheles are among the ones announced so far; I don't know if you speak about any beyond that?)
Also, yay for more demigods.
Bestiary 6 will have more demigods inside its covers than any other single book we've ever published. Beyond the two I've mentioned, it should come as no surprise we're not stopping at just those two—we're presenting stats for all 8 Archdevils (the 9th being Asmodeus and, at deity level, no stats work for him) and all 4 Horsemen.
There's more, though. Some will be demigods people have heard a lot about. Some will be brand new ones. Now's not the time to reveal that much more information though. Stay tuned, though!
Holy s+&*. I was expecting two archdevils. Maybe three. But all 8? My wanting for this book just increased a thousandfold.
As for my question, exactly why all the focus on high level monsters? Is this a hint to come for more Mythic level products or maybe high level modules?
It's great to see that there IS a desire to see high CR creatures like Archdevils in print, since there's something of a perception around these parts that high CR monsters like that are useless. I, obviously, disagree, and hope that this book will start to prove that point more.
This book isn't intended to support Mythic at all. In fact, there are no "mythic" monsters in the book (as in no monsters with an "MR" in their CR line—there are absolutely monsters of the CR range of 21–30).
The point of this book is to skew high CR to give more support for play at higher level, though—but at the same time there's still going to be plenty of low and mid CR monsters in the book as well. One of the benefits of this being the 6th in the series is that we no longer are bound by some of the implied restrictions of the earlier ones, which really DID need to focus on gathering the classics and representing lower CRs...
I haven't gotten to use high level stat blocks all that much myself but I like seeing them in print. Even if it's as trivial as knowning what Dispater's Intimidate bonus is so I can legitimately shut down a player who thinks himself above a Lord of Hell while negotiating with said being. It's nice to have them around.
Is there any chance of Nocticula slipping in? She and Abraxas are my two favorite demon lords and it'd be nice to have her in an official Bestiary instead of just being in Wrath of the Righteous.
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Is there any chance of Nocticula slipping in? She and Abraxas are my two favorite demon lords and it'd be nice to have her in an official Bestiary instead of just being in Wrath of the Righteous.
No demon lords in this book. Therefore no Nocticula.
That said, the version of her in Wrath of the Righteous IS the official version of her, and frankly, those version that appear in such venues where we can include world content make them MORE official than if they appear in a Bestiary where some of their lore has to be ignored due to the "world neutral" stance of the rulebook line.
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Totally agreed that high CR monsters aren't just useful as monsters to kill. They can be walking plothooks, which is one of the things I love the most about demigod stats, especially the Great Old Ones.
James, is there any chance we'll be seeing other types of demigods that we don't have stats for yet like the asuras, psychopomps, kytons, and aeons in Bestiary 6? And were guys able to tap Todd Stewart to write the Horsemen entries?
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James, is there any chance we'll be seeing other types of demigods that we don't have stats for yet like the asuras, psychopomps, kytons, and aeons in Bestiary 6? And were guys able to tap Todd Stewart to write the Horsemen entries?
There will be other demigods in the book, yes, but no asuras, psychopomps, kytons, or aeons.
Todd is indeed designing the Horsemen.
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James, is there any chance we'll be seeing other types of demigods that we don't have stats for yet like the asuras, psychopomps, kytons, and aeons in Bestiary 6? And were guys able to tap Todd Stewart to write the Horsemen entries?There will be other demigods in the book, yes, but no asuras, psychopomps, kytons, or aeons.
Todd is indeed designing the Horsemen.
Yay!!! That's awesome! This is probably the closest we are ever getting to real Baernoloth stats!
*goes looking for weights to drag himself off the ceiling*
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Are you or Wes statting up the Archdevils?Which demigods are you statting (or already statted) out for Bestiary 6? (Charon and Mephistopheles are among the ones announced so far; I don't know if you speak about any beyond that?)
Also, yay for more demigods.
Bestiary 6 will have more demigods inside its covers than any other single book we've ever published. Beyond the two I've mentioned, it should come as no surprise we're not stopping at just those two—we're presenting stats for all 8 Archdevils (the 9th being Asmodeus and, at deity level, no stats work for him) and all 4 Horsemen.
There's more, though. Some will be demigods people have heard a lot about. Some will be brand new ones. Now's not the time to reveal that much more information though. Stay tuned, though!
Will you be statting up the empyreal lords too? Or at least oversee said statting?Nope. But again, as mentioned above, I'm overseeing all of the stats and developing them all (which does mean rebuilding/rewriting as needed).Nope.
I'm developing every monster in the book though, which as far as I know is the FIRST time we've had a single developer develop every monster in a Bestiary, which should go a LONG way toward making things all feel of a kind, unlike the disconnect between Empyreal Lords and Demon Lords that snuck into the book in Bestiary 4.
THANK YOU!
*ahem*
Will...the previous four statted empyreal lords (Cernunnos, Korada, and Vildeis in B4, Andoletta in Heaven Unleashed) get errata eventually?
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I'm curious about what perversion means for Socothbenoth. Incest is clearly spelled out, but what are the others?
Thankfully, the prevailing view of Pathfinder is that there exist a wide spread of healthy sexualities, which leads me to think that sodomy would not fall under perversion.
I'm think either he is interested in sexual activity without consent or he supports a destructive version of hedonism that revels in (self-)destruction. Perhaps both/and?
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James, is there any chance we'll be seeing other types of demigods that we don't have stats for yet like the asuras, psychopomps, kytons, and aeons in Bestiary 6? And were guys able to tap Todd Stewart to write the Horsemen entries?There will be other demigods in the book, yes, but no asuras, psychopomps, kytons, or aeons.
Todd is indeed designing the Horsemen.
Yay!!! That's awesome! This is probably the closest we are ever getting to real Baernoloth stats!
*goes looking for weights to drag himself off the ceiling*
Not at all. The baernoloths are an entirely different thing, and not open content at that. The Horsemen will be quite different from them, but hopefully even more awesome/frightening (which, given thousands of years of mythology to draw from for some of them, should be doable!).
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Will...the previous four statted empyreal lords (Cernunnos, Korada, and Vildeis in B4, Andoletta in Heaven Unleashed) get errata eventually?
No, because they're not incorrect. They're merely designed with a different mindset, and as such they are what they are.
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James I am so happy about Bestiary 6 having so many demi gods and mythic foes. I am just so sad that we may never see another mythic adventure path. Can you say if we will ever see one again? Were sales of Wrath of the Righteous really that bad?
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I'm curious about what perversion means for Socothbenoth. Incest is clearly spelled out, but what are the others?
Thankfully, the prevailing view of Pathfinder is that there exist a wide spread of healthy sexualities, which leads me to think that sodomy would not fall under perversion.
I'm think either he is interested in sexual activity without consent or he supports a destructive version of hedonism that revels in (self-)destruction. Perhaps both/and?
What "perversion" means is deliberately left to the mind of the reader, but it does NOT include sexual orientations, which are not perversions.
The human condition is perfectly capable of coming up with perversions, and Socothbenoth enjoys them all. In this case, rape is high on Socothbenoth's list of perversions, and rape is a subject that we tread lightly around, since while it is an (unfortunate) part of reality, and as such is implied that it's part of a game world that models reality, I have zero interest in really exploring the subject in Pathfinder products. And so when the subject comes up, it's left vague and indistinct—suggested, as in the case of Socothbenoth's "preversions," but not something that's worth spending any time in print dwelling over.
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James I am so happy about Bestiary 6 having so many demi gods and mythic foes. I am just so sad that we may never see another mythic adventure path. Can you say if we will ever see one again? Were sales of Wrath of the Righteous really that bad?
It's not that sales of Wrath were bad at all. They, as with all our Adventure Paths, were quite healthy as far as I know.
The problem was that I personally do not like how the interaction of Mythic and high-level play worked out, and as such am not interested in duplicating that effort.
If I had a time machine and knew now what I knew then I would rebuild Wrath of the Righteous so that the PCs still hit 20th level, but would spread out the mythic advancement about by half, so that you gain 1 tier per volume and max out at tier 5 or tier 6.
ANYthing is possible in the future, I suppose, but doing another tier 10/level 20 AP would require building foes that vastly exceed CR 30 in scope, and the game world doesn't really have room for that area, so it's kind of not something that we can do with the game.
But yeah. Ask me again in 5 years. I might have changed my mind.
That said... there are high CR foes for mythic characters to fight in Bestiary 6, yes, but there are NOT going to be "Mythic monsters" as they were presented in Mythic Adventures or periodically in Bestiary 4 and 5. Demigod-tier foes will retain mythic surge ability in the same way demon lords and Great Old Ones and Empyreal Lords have that ability, but there won't be monsters with "MR" in their CR line in Bestiary 6.