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Mr. James Jacobs,

How versed are you in the Fantasy/Swords & Sorcery movies of the 80s? Are there any you would recommend for viewing?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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The NPC wrote:

Mr. James Jacobs,

How versed are you in the Fantasy/Swords & Sorcery movies of the 80s? Are there any you would recommend for viewing?

The best one is Conan the Barbarian.

Second best is Clash of the Titans.

Third best is The Dark Crystal.

Fourth best is Dragonslayer.

Fifth best is Legend.

In the animated movie category, check out The Last Unicorn. Heavy Metal is the second best there, but it's an anthology movie with some good stuff and some really terrible stuff.

Labyrinth and Willow were great when I saw them but I've not seen either anytime lately so I'm not sure how well they've aged.

These were cheesy even back in the day but I enjoyed them... they have NOT aged well for the most part: Conan the Destroyer, Krull, The Beastmaster, Red Sonja.

Then there's some truly bad but still fun bottom-rung movies that I'd only suggest to the bravest: the Deathstalker movies, The Barbarians, Hawk the Slayer, Your the Hunter from the Future, and a few more that are probably best watched via MST3K or Rifftrax these days.

Some that other folks love but I've always quite disliked are Princess Bride and Never Ending Story; for the same reason. I'm not a fan of "earthling goes to a fantasy setting" movies.


James Jacobs wrote:

That's a fun graphic you built for the campaign!

Thank you so much, that's quite a compliment coming from the creative director of Paizo! I'll pass it on to the artist, and hope he doesn't faint. We owe a lot to Pathfinder for giving us all such a good setting to work with!

James Jacobs wrote:


Seekers of Secrets isn't so much a problem with how it portrays the faction as much as it just didn't have as good a quality-control development phase as it should have had—it could have done with one more development pass to iron out several errors that crept in (for example, it gets Sheila Heidmarch's classes completely wrong).

Ahhhh, I understand. Thank you for the clarification.

James Jacobs wrote:


As for your questions... that's something you need to determine for yourself. The Pathfinder Society's been around a LONG time, and its leaders and resources are significant. If they don't sniff out the evil cleric on their own, you run the risk of making them look ineffective. My suggestion...

Yeah, I really don't want to depict the Pathfinders as an Organization that collects some of the world's greatest treasures, and yet can be stolen from like a common bank.

As the Zyphen Cleric and his Urgathoan betrothed are merely level 10/8 at this time, I agree that he'll be spending his next 6-7 levels adventuring, for the society, though he's already had to drop his disguise as of the latest image. Thanks again, and you can always see the results as we progress!


James Jacobs wrote:


Some that other folks love but I've always quite disliked are Princess Bride and Never Ending Story; for the same reason. I'm not a fan of "earthling goes to a fantasy setting" movies.

I grok how you put "Never Ending Story" into that category, but how does "Princes Bride" get lumped there? I don't recall any world traveling in that movie.


Hello James, a quick lore question this time,

So, one could argue there are 2 gods who are most iconic for the assassin "business", Achaekek and Norgorber. One has a whole order of Red Mantis assassins and Red Mantis zealots doing assassinations with little interest for intrigue, other is a bit more into general murder and secrets, but it's undeniable there are areas where they could come face to face.

Question is, what is the relationship between these two as their fields of interests somewhat overlap? Is cooperation possible or unsustainable?

Thanks in advance!


Hey James,

1. Will the final volume of Hell's Vengeance contain ideas or guidelines for pitting the triumphant villains of that AP against the triumphant heroes of Hell's Rebels? I'm currently DMing the latter, and will probably DM Hell's Vengeance after that.

2. Any idea why so many, many questions in this thread concern a) the specifics of the afterlife in Golarion or b) deities, their power levels and their relationships to each other?

3. Which adventure path BBEG is, in your opinion, the most interesting character?

Dark Archive

James Jacobs wrote:
Some that other folks love but I've always quite disliked are Princess Bride

You break my heart in twain James.

What did you think of Ladyhawke and Flight of Dragons?

I am assuming you did enjoy Bladerunner.


If goku( from dragonball z) was on Golarion do you think he would be a god?

Grand Lodge

Dear James,

I'm not sure if you're in the know on this, but is there a chance of any playtest classes this year? I really enjoy playing around with beta classes, and seeing them evolve over time. I may not always agree with the final product, but it's the experience of helping out and knowing I was a part of something big that always makes me want to come back and do it again.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:


Some that other folks love but I've always quite disliked are Princess Bride and Never Ending Story; for the same reason. I'm not a fan of "earthling goes to a fantasy setting" movies.
I grok how you put "Never Ending Story" into that category, but how does "Princes Bride" get lumped there? I don't recall any world traveling in that movie.

I'm totally with you there, James: I've never liked the "modern Earthling goes to fantasy world" subgenre in either film or literature. We'll have to put Labyrnith in that category, too. Literary examples imclude the Guardians of the Flame series by Joel Rosenberg, The Fionavar Tapestry by Guy Gavriel Kay, The Darwath Trilogy by Barbara Hambly, as well as the grandaddy of the genre, The Chronicles of Narnia.

I'll have to echo Moonrunner's question, though: While The Princess Bride is a quite silly movie that's aimed at kids, it doesn't feature anyone from Earth who goes to a fantasy setting. What it does have is a frame story that takes place in normal world: The events of the main story is a depiction of a fantasy novel Peter Falk is reading aloud to a very young Fred Savage. (Neither Falk nor Savage appear in the main story of the film.)

Did you not give The Princess Bride a fair shake because it started in the modern world?

Speaking of cheesy genre films of the '80s... did you know that Big Trouble In Little China is streaming on Netflix currently? What are your thoughts on that one?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:


Some that other folks love but I've always quite disliked are Princess Bride and Never Ending Story; for the same reason. I'm not a fan of "earthling goes to a fantasy setting" movies.
I grok how you put "Never Ending Story" into that category, but how does "Princes Bride" get lumped there? I don't recall any world traveling in that movie.

Princess Bride is even worse at this sin in my book. It's framing device is "This isn't a REAL story, it's a story being told by a grandpa to a grandson." Which is an interesting framing device on its own, but I can't help but interpret it a bit as "We the movie makers don't trust you the audience to simply accept this fantasy setting for its own and therefore we're blatantly telling you not to worry, that it's all a story and thus none of it is real."

If the movie had consisted SOLELY and ONLY of the story itself with NONE of the framing devices of it being a story being told, it would be in my top five fantasy movies of the 80s. Perhaps of all time. But it's not and as a result it's actually perhaps my least favorite fantasy movie of all time.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Keydan wrote:

Hello James, a quick lore question this time,

So, one could argue there are 2 gods who are most iconic for the assassin "business", Achaekek and Norgorber. One has a whole order of Red Mantis assassins and Red Mantis zealots doing assassinations with little interest for intrigue, other is a bit more into general murder and secrets, but it's undeniable there are areas where they could come face to face.

Question is, what is the relationship between these two as their fields of interests somewhat overlap? Is cooperation possible or unsustainable?

Thanks in advance!

They do not cooperate at all, and in fact there is a pretty healthy conflict between the two faiths and their various assassin guilds. It's not something we've done much with yet in print, but it IS something I've been kicking around in my head for a possible story at some point.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Krathanos wrote:

Hey James,

1. Will the final volume of Hell's Vengeance contain ideas or guidelines for pitting the triumphant villains of that AP against the triumphant heroes of Hell's Rebels? I'm currently DMing the latter, and will probably DM Hell's Vengeance after that.

2. Any idea why so many, many questions in this thread concern a) the specifics of the afterlife in Golarion or b) deities, their power levels and their relationships to each other?

3. Which adventure path BBEG is, in your opinion, the most interesting character?

1) Yes it will. But not a lot. That's something you as the GM will need to do most of the work on. I was NOT interested in a situation where I spent about a year of my life working on and building up an entire Adventure Path only to have the very next Adventure Path we publish be all about undoing and destroying the events and accomplishments of the previous one. I suspect most players in Hell's Rebels would feel the same. And vice versa.

2) Because it's a topic that has long fascinated humanity, and is perhaps one of the fundamentally greatest and most frightening and intriguing mysteries of the human condition. What happens after we die? No one knows. Attempts to answer this question is the fundamental genesis for pretty much every religion. It's no surprise that folks want to know more about how it works for their characters in a game, since they can't find out how it works for themselves in the real world.

3) AKA: Which of your children is the smartest or best-looking? I can't answer that. I think they're ALL very interesting, and if I say "Barzillai" is, then I immediately regret saying that because in their own ways, Karzoug and Ileosa and Allevrah and Jhavuul and the Drovenges and Nyressa and Ydersius and the Jade Regent and Xin and Areelu and Unity are all equally interesting as well.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

baron arem heshvaun wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Some that other folks love but I've always quite disliked are Princess Bride

You break my heart in twain James.

What did you think of Ladyhawke and Flight of Dragons?

I am assuming you did enjoy Bladerunner.

I'm certainly aware of the fact that me not liking "The Princess Bride" is not a commonly held opinion, but part of life is learning that not everyone is the same and at the same time not being distressed by that. Think of this as me attempting to give you a life lesson to prepare for even more important decision points you might need to make in the future. If you can still respect me even though I hate a movie you love, then that puts you one step closer to being an excellent human being. :-)

I actually never saw Flight of Dragons (and never even heard of it). And I missed Ladyhawke and only saw it about a decade ago, at which point it had aged a bit poorly and most of its story had been spoiled and as a result, it never really left as big an impression on me.

Blade Runner is an excellent movie, and one of my favorite science fiction movies, but folks asked about fantasy, so mentioning Blade Runner would have been off-topic.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

xavier c wrote:
If goku( from dragonball z) was on Golarion do you think he would be a god?

I haven't watched any Dragonball Z, but no, I don't think he would be.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.
kevin_video wrote:

Dear James,

I'm not sure if you're in the know on this, but is there a chance of any playtest classes this year? I really enjoy playing around with beta classes, and seeing them evolve over time. I may not always agree with the final product, but it's the experience of helping out and knowing I was a part of something big that always makes me want to come back and do it again.

I am in fact absolutely in the know on this. I know what our plans are out to 2020 and beyond. Part of the benefit (and stress) of being one of the company's highest level employees!

That said, it's neither the time nor the place to reveal that information. When and if it happens, you'll hear, but not from me.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Haladir wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:


Some that other folks love but I've always quite disliked are Princess Bride and Never Ending Story; for the same reason. I'm not a fan of "earthling goes to a fantasy setting" movies.
I grok how you put "Never Ending Story" into that category, but how does "Princes Bride" get lumped there? I don't recall any world traveling in that movie.

I'm totally with you there, James: I've never liked the "modern Earthling goes to fantasy world" subgenre in either film or literature. We'll have to put Labyrnith in that category, too. Literary examples imclude the Guardians of the Flame series by Joel Rosenberg, The Fionavar Tapestry by Guy Gavriel Kay, The Darwath Trilogy by Barbara Hambly, as well as the grandaddy of the genre, The Chronicles of Narnia.

I'll have to echo Moonrunner's question, though: While The Princess Bride is a quite silly movie that's aimed at kids, it doesn't feature anyone from Earth who goes to a fantasy setting. What it does have is a frame story that takes place in normal world: The events of the main story is a depiction of a fantasy novel Peter Falk is reading aloud to a very young Fred Savage. (Neither Falk nor Savage appear in the main story of the film.)

Did you not give The Princess Bride a fair shake because it started in the modern world?

Speaking of cheesy genre films of the '80s... did you know that Big Trouble In Little China is streaming on Netflix currently? What are your thoughts on that one?

I have actually only seen Labyrinth once, and the visuals in that movie are so much more striking to me than they were in Neverending Story that I give it a pass, I guess. I had totally forgotten that fact, but then again... the fact that I've never gone back to seek out and watch Labyrinth again might be because even back then I was annoyed by that sort of story trope.

I answered my complaint and dissatisfaction about Princes Bride a few posts upthread, but yeah. its sin is an order of magnitude greater than Narnia or the like. At least what happens in Narnia was real and thus actually mattered.

Big Trouble in Little China is one of my favorite movies. I don't count it as a sword and sorcery movie, but I suppose it WOULD be counted as fantasy. If the original question had been "What are your favorite fantasy movies of the 80s?" then Big Trouble in Little China would be hands down no contest the number one best of them all. And while I do like the fact that it's streaming and thus lots of folks can see it... it's also one of those movies that I've bought multiple times on various media... DVD, Blu-Ray, and I think even on laserdisc.


James Jacobs wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:


Some that other folks love but I've always quite disliked are Princess Bride and Never Ending Story; for the same reason. I'm not a fan of "earthling goes to a fantasy setting" movies.
I grok how you put "Never Ending Story" into that category, but how does "Princes Bride" get lumped there? I don't recall any world traveling in that movie.

Princess Bride is even worse at this sin in my book. It's framing device is "This isn't a REAL story, it's a story being told by a grandpa to a grandson." Which is an interesting framing device on its own, but I can't help but interpret it a bit as "We the movie makers don't trust you the audience to simply accept this fantasy setting for its own and therefore we're blatantly telling you not to worry, that it's all a story and thus none of it is real."

If the movie had consisted SOLELY and ONLY of the story itself with NONE of the framing devices of it being a story being told, it would be in my top five fantasy movies of the 80s. Perhaps of all time. But it's not and as a result it's actually perhaps my least favorite fantasy movie of all time.

I won't debate it, but I mainly saw it as a reason to put a minor Name star (Peter Falk) in a role he was suited for to give it a draw.

Silver Crusade Contributor

In the case of The Princess Bride, I believe the framing device is a holdover from the book, which has a somewhat meta bit about the author's reinterpretation of the original at the beginning.

Speaking of oft-debated fantasy tales, Mr. Jacobs, what's your opinion of The Hobbit? What about The Lord of the Rings?

As a follow-up, what about the film franchises of those books?

Thank you! ^_^


James Jacobs wrote:
xavier c wrote:
If goku( from dragonball z) was on Golarion do you think he would be a god?
I haven't watched any Dragonball Z, but no, I don't think he would be.

To be fair, this should ask Goku at which point in the story, because, I can assure you Goku actually does become a God over the course of the franchise, but even before that, Goku is powerful enough to destroy planets, and solar systems with relative ease. In the later episodes of the original Dragon Ball, Goku is easily capable of blowing up the moon without even straining very hard.

He may not be a God in the context of being able to grant spells, but he'd easily be the most powerful living being in the entire Golarion multiverse that isn't one of the true Gods.

James Jacobs wrote:
If the movie had consisted SOLELY and ONLY of the story itself with NONE of the framing devices of it being a story being told, it would be in my top five fantasy movies of the 80s. Perhaps of all time. But it's not and as a result it's actually perhaps my least favorite fantasy movie of all time.

What are your top 5 fantasy films of the 80's and top 5 of all time?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Kalindlara wrote:

In the case of The Princess Bride, I believe the framing device is a holdover from the book, which has a somewhat meta bit about the author's reinterpretation of the original at the beginning.

Speaking of oft-debated fantasy tales, Mr. Jacobs, what's your opinion of The Hobbit? What about The Lord of the Rings?

As a follow-up, what about the film franchises of those books?

Thank you! ^_^

Sometimes, the ideas the author has for the story aren't the best ones for the story.

I quite enjoyed the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. Incredibly well designed world. Kind of dull at places to read, but still interesting all along—I think Tolkien is a brilliant world designer but just a "good" writer, and the fact that there's no real place in his stories for women (except for having them be set-dressing or to make for a play on words) has always bothered me.

I LOVED the Lord of the Rings trilogy, and felt it was overall an improvement to the original story line. I feel kind of the exact opposite about the Hobbit, which I was at first underwhelmed with and by the 3rd movie almost didn't go see it at all. Exceptionally disappointing. I think that while Lord of the RIngs was a huge achievement, I feel that Peter Jackson has misunderstood fundamentally what made it great, judging by the fact that the movies he made leading up to it were all brilliant and the ones he's made after it are not. King Kong is the closest he's come to matching the quality I expect and hope from him, and even it was about 90 minutes longer than it needed to be and had a ridiculous "can't happen in the real world" physics thing (folks running on falling objects... one of my least favorite things in a movie, be it King Kong or Furioius 7 or the Hobbit... LAME).

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Tels wrote:
What are your top 5 fantasy films of the 80's and top 5 of all time?

Going from the top of my head rather than doing an exhaustive search on the Internet, and counting the Lord of the Rings trilogy as one movie, and NOT including Game of Thrones since it's not a movie...

TOP 5 FANTASY FILMS OF THE 80s
1) Big Trouble in Little China
2) Conan the Barbarian
3) Clash of the Titans
4) The Dark Crystal
5) Dragonslayer

TOP 5 FANTASY FILMS OF ALL TIME
1) The 7th Voyage of Sinbad
2) Big Trouble in Little China
3) Pan's Labyrinth
4) Conan the Barbarian
5) Lord of the Rings

Grand Lodge

James Jacobs wrote:
kevin_video wrote:

Dear James,

I'm not sure if you're in the know on this, but is there a chance of any playtest classes this year? I really enjoy playing around with beta classes, and seeing them evolve over time. I may not always agree with the final product, but it's the experience of helping out and knowing I was a part of something big that always makes me want to come back and do it again.

I am in fact absolutely in the know on this. I know what our plans are out to 2020 and beyond. Part of the benefit (and stress) of being one of the company's highest level employees!

That said, it's neither the time nor the place to reveal that information. When and if it happens, you'll hear, but not from me.

That sounds great, but also unfortunate to be that mixed up in things. Makes you wonder if there are days if you're unsure if you're coming or going. Regarding your "one of the company's highest level employees" comment, any of you guys reach level 20 or epic levels yet?

That's fair regarding info like that being time and place sensitive.


James Jacobs wrote:
xavier c wrote:
If goku( from dragonball z) was on Golarion do you think he would be a god?
I haven't watched any Dragonball Z, but no, I don't think he would be.

Base on Goku being powerful enough to destroy planets, and solar systems with relative ease and being several thousand times faster than light(even before becoming a super saiyan god) do you think he can challenge some of the demigods and gods?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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xavier c wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
xavier c wrote:
If goku( from dragonball z) was on Golarion do you think he would be a god?
I haven't watched any Dragonball Z, but no, I don't think he would be.
Base on Goku being powerful enough to destroy planets, and solar systems with relative ease and being several thousand times faster than light(even before becoming a super saiyan god) do you think he can challenge some of the demigods and gods?

Something with that power HAS to be a deity in this game. So yes, he'd be able to challenge the gods themselves. I wouldn't put a character that does this into the game, though, because that's not "on theme" for Golarion and the universe, really.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.
kevin_video wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
kevin_video wrote:

Dear James,

I'm not sure if you're in the know on this, but is there a chance of any playtest classes this year? I really enjoy playing around with beta classes, and seeing them evolve over time. I may not always agree with the final product, but it's the experience of helping out and knowing I was a part of something big that always makes me want to come back and do it again.

I am in fact absolutely in the know on this. I know what our plans are out to 2020 and beyond. Part of the benefit (and stress) of being one of the company's highest level employees!

That said, it's neither the time nor the place to reveal that information. When and if it happens, you'll hear, but not from me.

That sounds great, but also unfortunate to be that mixed up in things. Makes you wonder if there are days if you're unsure if you're coming or going. Regarding your "one of the company's highest level employees" comment, any of you guys reach level 20 or epic levels yet?

That's fair regarding info like that being time and place sensitive.

Well... practice is helpful, and I've been keeping secrets like this for Paizo for over a decade now, many of which were MUCH harder to keep and I did it successfully. Part of what I'm paid for is for not spilling those beans!

As for level... I've got myself listed as being 20th level on my profile here, but only 19 of those levels are directly applicable to my everyday job. Don't get a lot of call to use my Bigfoot Hunting skills, as anemic as they are, in the building.

Silver Crusade

James Jacobs wrote:
... had a ridiculous "can't happen in the real world" physics thing (folks running on falling objects... one of my least favorite things in a movie, be it King Kong or Furioius 7 or the Hobbit... LAME).

Gravity is a harsh mistress...

There was originally supposed to be a question here regarding the quoted text but I confused myself and forgot it. My apologies.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
... had a ridiculous "can't happen in the real world" physics thing (folks running on falling objects... one of my least favorite things in a movie, be it King Kong or Furioius 7 or the Hobbit... LAME).

Gravity is a harsh mistress...

There was originally supposed to be a question here regarding the quoted text but I confused myself and forgot it. My apologies.

No worries. I'll take advantage of this point to mention that Mythbusters actually did this one—can you run on a falling bridge and get to safety?

Myth busted.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
They do not cooperate at all, and in fact there is a pretty healthy conflict between the two faiths and their various assassin guilds. It's not something we've done much with yet in print, but it IS something I've been kicking around in my head for a possible story at some point.

So is this a direct contravention of the Norgie "relations with other religions" entry in Inner Sea Gods?

"Father Skinsaw shares with Achaekek the love of conceiving, planning, and executing murder, and the two cults sometimes work together."

I mean, it's one sentence with a sense of being conditional, no huge deal, but...

Silver Crusade

James Jacobs wrote:
Rysky wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
... had a ridiculous "can't happen in the real world" physics thing (folks running on falling objects... one of my least favorite things in a movie, be it King Kong or Furioius 7 or the Hobbit... LAME).

Gravity is a harsh mistress...

There was originally supposed to be a question here regarding the quoted text but I confused myself and forgot it. My apologies.

No worries. I'll take advantage of this point to mention that Mythbusters actually did this one—can you run on a falling bridge and get to safety?

Myth busted.

Yay! I helped... or something.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
James Jacobs wrote:


Princess Bride is even worse at this sin in my book. It's framing device is "This isn't a REAL story, it's a story being told by a grandpa to a grandson." Which is an interesting framing device on its own, but I can't help but interpret it a bit as "We the movie makers don't trust you the audience to simply accept this fantasy setting for its own and therefore we're blatantly telling you not to worry, that it's all a story and thus none of it is real."

If the movie had consisted SOLELY and ONLY of the story itself with NONE of the framing devices of it being a story being told, it would be in my top five fantasy movies of the 80s. Perhaps of all time. But it's not and as a result it's actually perhaps my least favorite fantasy movie of all time.

Have you heard about these game systems whose framing is a bunch of real world people sitting around and telling a story about a fake adventure in a made up land? I imagine you'd hate them. Shouldn't these people just be reading a fantasy book and stripping out the real world fakeness?


Are you a fan of Rooster Teeth and have you heard of their upcoming movie Lazer Team? If so, any thoughts, predictions, etc.?

Also, do you have any advice for finding a group? I've been having some difficulty doing so since my last group disbanded and am sorely in need of some RPG time.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Cole Deschain wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
They do not cooperate at all, and in fact there is a pretty healthy conflict between the two faiths and their various assassin guilds. It's not something we've done much with yet in print, but it IS something I've been kicking around in my head for a possible story at some point.

So is this a direct contravention of the Norgie "relations with other religions" entry in Inner Sea Gods?

"Father Skinsaw shares with Achaekek the love of conceiving, planning, and executing murder, and the two cults sometimes work together."

I mean, it's one sentence with a sense of being conditional, no huge deal, but...

No... that's basically what I get for playing my cards a bit too close to the chest and not letting other folks know my plans, and not having had time to read the entire text of Inner Sea Gods to keep an eye out for potential pitfalls like this.

So... scrap my previous post. It goes away. Norgorber's churhc and Achaekek's church do indeed sometimes work together, although not often enough to be considered to be always allied, neither are they particularly out to get each other.

It's a pretty huge deal to me, but I guess that's what I get for being slow to move forward with that plotline I had in mind. Oh well.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Slithery D wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:


Princess Bride is even worse at this sin in my book. It's framing device is "This isn't a REAL story, it's a story being told by a grandpa to a grandson." Which is an interesting framing device on its own, but I can't help but interpret it a bit as "We the movie makers don't trust you the audience to simply accept this fantasy setting for its own and therefore we're blatantly telling you not to worry, that it's all a story and thus none of it is real."

If the movie had consisted SOLELY and ONLY of the story itself with NONE of the framing devices of it being a story being told, it would be in my top five fantasy movies of the 80s. Perhaps of all time. But it's not and as a result it's actually perhaps my least favorite fantasy movie of all time.

Have you heard about these game systems whose framing is a bunch of real world people sitting around and telling a story about a fake adventure in a made up land? I imagine you'd hate them. Shouldn't these people just be reading a fantasy book and stripping out the real world fakeness?

Wouldn't like them, that's for sure. And that said... the "classic" illustration of a bunch of gamers sitting at a table playing while above them there's a shared thought balloon where we see those exact same gamers dressed up like their characters in action is my least favorite type of RPG illustration.

It's certainly my least favorite aspect of "The Gamers." But that movie's whole point is not the in-world story but the story about the gamers themselves, so I'm less annoyed by it.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

cannen144 wrote:

Are you a fan of Rooster Teeth and have you heard of their upcoming movie Lazer Team? If so, any thoughts, predictions, etc.?

Also, do you have any advice for finding a group? I've been having some difficulty doing so since my last group disbanded and am sorely in need of some RPG time.

I have no idea what you're talking about with "Rooster Teeth/Lazer Team." Checked up on the internets and now I know why. I've never been that into the things they do. So, no opinion on the upcoming movie at all.

Finding a group is tricky. If you're in an area where Pathfinder Society is active, that might be a viable solution, but I know full well that style of game play isn't the same as a home group. Posting on these and other boards is another way to find a group, and could even hook you up with some virtual table top games perhaps; online is how I hooked up with my new group when I moved from California up to Washington 20 years ago or so. Friendly Local Game Stores might also be able to help but I've never tried that route myself.


James Jacobs wrote:
xavier c wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
xavier c wrote:
If goku( from dragonball z) was on Golarion do you think he would be a god?
I haven't watched any Dragonball Z, but no, I don't think he would be.
Base on Goku being powerful enough to destroy planets, and solar systems with relative ease and being several thousand times faster than light(even before becoming a super saiyan god) do you think he can challenge some of the demigods and gods?
Something with that power HAS to be a deity in this game. So yes, he'd be able to challenge the gods themselves. I wouldn't put a character that does this into the game, though, because that's not "on theme" for Golarion and the universe, really.

Well, weirdly enough, Goku (or rather the inspiration for Goku) already is a deity on Golarion.

You see, Son Goku is Akira Toriyama's take on the Monkey King, Son Wukong. (Dragonball, dealing with Goku's childhood, had much more elements in common with the original Monkey King stories.)

So the actual source material for Son Goku is already in the Tian Xia pantheon.

(Having read Journey to the West, I'll add that the Monkey King is way more fun as a character than Toriyama's Goku. The Monkey King is a kick-ass trickster god rivaling Loki, Coyote, etc., while Son Goku's more just a bruiser with a heart of gold.)

Now, question for you after reading Breaking the Bones of Hell - is the level of control that Mephistopheles has over Caina intended to be exceptionally high, or is it intended to be relatively standard for a demigod?

I guess another way to put - as Archduke of the 8th layer, is Mephistopheles intended to have greater control over the layer than would be standard for a demigod's divine realm?

(For example, would it be within Nocticula's abilities to force a particular person to always teleport to a specific spot in her realm?)

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Zhangar wrote:

Now, question for you after reading Breaking the Bones of Hell - is the level of control that Mephistopheles has over Caina intended to be exceptionally high, or is it intended to be relatively standard for a demigod?

I guess another way to put - as Archduke of the 8th layer, is Mephistopheles intended to have greater control over the layer than would be standard for a demigod's divine realm?

(For example, would it be within Nocticula's abilities to force a particular person to always teleport to a specific spot in her realm?)

The level of control over Caina that Mephistopheles has is indeed exceptionally high, since in a certain way, that layer of hell IS Mephistopheles. It's higher than what a standard demigod gets. It's not spelled out in game terms and likely never will be, so feel free to go crazy with it, but keep in mind that if he changes the nature of the final part of the adventure too much, you'll need to build different maps from scratch over and over and over.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Have you ever read "The Stars Were Right" by KM Alexander?

I'm about 2/3rds the way through and enjoying it quite a bit. Seems like something you might be interested in as it's set in a post-Cthulhu world, but not quite as post-apocalyptic as the Unspeakable Futures setting of yours sounds like.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Original Princess Bride book is in story written by fictional author and abridged/reinterpreted by the actual author <_< Its some sort of weird gag where the whole story is commentary by actual author on the story. So you are right in that movie didn't need the framing device since its apparently just homage to original, but I still like the movie and I don't feel like framing devices like that can hurt a story. If Kill Bill is actually a movie in other Tarantino films, I don't think it matters to story itself, fiction is fiction whether its story inside story or not

Sorry for going off tangent there, I had written a much longer post about it, but decided to shorten it once I calmed down ^^;

Anyway, about that Norgorber and mantis god thing... Well, umm, even if there is one sentence in contrary, can't you still do the storyline? D: Surely there are some reasons why group might find each other distasteful even if they do sometimes consider working together so maybe idea doesn't need to be scrapped. Storyline about rivalry between two religious assassin groups sounds cool...

Is there any way for paladin turn evil and a evil priest hide in hierarchy of good clergy for several years before being found out by the faithful?


CorvusMask wrote:
Is there any way for paladin turn evil and a evil priest hide in hierarchy of good clergy for several years before being found out by the faithful?

Do your Clerics/Paladins regularly scan their friends for Evil? If you really feel like it'll be an issue, cast Undetectable Alignment every morning for 24 hour protection.


If someone were to dig into it, what sort of crimes would they be able to lay at the feet of the Lumber Consortium? Who do they trade with when smuggling Darkwood, what evils are they involved with?

And importantly, how much do the People's Senate base their choices on morality rather than legality?
Local paladin is planning to resurrect Diggen of Diggen's rest and prove the Consortium lynched a child, then bring the Queen of Darkmoon Vale before the council to lay genocide at the feet of the Consortium basically, followed by a few witness accounts from women forced into prostitution/Prima Noctis'd by Thuldrin Kreed.
So, he has lots of emotional evidence, but how much will it count for really?

How much influence do they have, the Paladin has ranks in Knowledge (Law) and could probably bend their law team over a barrel and has a solution for the inevitable Embargo (Oddly enough, he's working with the Capitalistic Oracle on this one, the two usually don't get on at all), but what other tricks would the Consortium be able to pull if all this came at them out of apparently nowhere?
So far I've got assassins, thugs, embargo, their own law team (Including an Axomite), smearing his reputation with accusations of being a Chelish spy and possibly getting him hooked up on drug smuggling charges during the proceedings, but if the horrific things the Consortium condones would be enough to bypass the law by the shame of the council, they won't have time to throw down any long term plans will they?
So I'm wondering what they would be capable of, if something came up so suddenly.

That and he's planning to get Taladamor called up to detect lies the entire thing, by the council if he can.
How would Andoran as a whole react, to the revealing of such crimes upon free men?

Silver Crusade

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James Jacobs wrote:
Cole Deschain wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
They do not cooperate at all, and in fact there is a pretty healthy conflict between the two faiths and their various assassin guilds. It's not something we've done much with yet in print, but it IS something I've been kicking around in my head for a possible story at some point.

So is this a direct contravention of the Norgie "relations with other religions" entry in Inner Sea Gods?

"Father Skinsaw shares with Achaekek the love of conceiving, planning, and executing murder, and the two cults sometimes work together."

I mean, it's one sentence with a sense of being conditional, no huge deal, but...

No... that's basically what I get for playing my cards a bit too close to the chest and not letting other folks know my plans, and not having had time to read the entire text of Inner Sea Gods to keep an eye out for potential pitfalls like this.

So... scrap my previous post. It goes away. Norgorber's churhc and Achaekek's church do indeed sometimes work together, although not often enough to be considered to be always allied, neither are they particularly out to get each other.

It's a pretty huge deal to me, but I guess that's what I get for being slow to move forward with that plotline I had in mind. Oh well.

:(

*offers hugs*

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DominusMegadeus wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
Is there any way for paladin turn evil and a evil priest hide in hierarchy of good clergy for several years before being found out by the faithful?
Do your Clerics/Paladins regularly scan their friends for Evil? If you really feel like it'll be an issue, cast Undetectable Alignment every morning for 24 hour protection.

Thats daily though. I'm trying to figure out whether its possible in pathfinder for leadership of good clerical organization get corrupted into evil(possibly by infiltrating evil priest) without anybody realizing it for years until the plot twist happens and heroes realize the truth type of plot <_<


Arcane universities seem to be at the forefront of education on the inner sea, but it strikes me that very little has been said about more traditional non-magical education centers resembling Medieval and Renaissance counterparts.

Daskadei may serve that roll, but I'm curious, where are these institutions. I imagine Taldor and Cheliax, and Andoran must have them. Do elites go to these schools or are they generally raised with private tutors?


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

What's your opinion of the scene in The Fellowship of the Ring where Frodo offers Galadriel the One Ring? I thought it was one of the best scenes in the story, and the movie version in particular was great.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

JoelF847 wrote:

Have you ever read "The Stars Were Right" by KM Alexander?

I'm about 2/3rds the way through and enjoying it quite a bit. Seems like something you might be interested in as it's set in a post-Cthulhu world, but not quite as post-apocalyptic as the Unspeakable Futures setting of yours sounds like.

I haven't read it.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

CorvusMask wrote:

Original Princess Bride book is in story written by fictional author and abridged/reinterpreted by the actual author <_< Its some sort of weird gag where the whole story is commentary by actual author on the story. So you are right in that movie didn't need the framing device since its apparently just homage to original, but I still like the movie and I don't feel like framing devices like that can hurt a story. If Kill Bill is actually a movie in other Tarantino films, I don't think it matters to story itself, fiction is fiction whether its story inside story or not

Sorry for going off tangent there, I had written a much longer post about it, but decided to shorten it once I calmed down ^^;

Anyway, about that Norgorber and mantis god thing... Well, umm, even if there is one sentence in contrary, can't you still do the storyline? D: Surely there are some reasons why group might find each other distasteful even if they do sometimes consider working together so maybe idea doesn't need to be scrapped. Storyline about rivalry between two religious assassin groups sounds cool...

Is there any way for paladin turn evil and a evil priest hide in hierarchy of good clergy for several years before being found out by the faithful?

Honestly, the more folks try to "explain" the book to me, the less I like the book. I understand the author's point and reasons for making the choice, and I feel that it's the WRONG choice. Interesting you use the term "weird gag" because that's what it makes me do; gag. Not every "joke" or gag is going to make every person laugh, and trying to explain to them why they SHOULD laugh is not only pointless but it's obnoxious and kind of disrespectful to the person whose sense of humor does not appreciate the joke. Just becasue I don't like the movie and find the framing device destructive and insulting doesn't mean that I'm "right" about the movie. It's art, and art is subjective, and if it weren't it wouldn't be art.

Anyway, let's drop the subject and stick to new questions.

As for Achaekek and Norgorber... all it takes is one sentence to the contrary to make a story not make sense anymore. I can still do the storyline but I'll have to change it pretty significantly, and frankly I'm pretty sour and frustrated on the whole thing right now (which stacks on top of the frustration about not having had time for the past several years to get started on the story in the first place) so this might have been the final straw that puts the story in its grave for me. Dunno. I might feel different about it in a year or ten.

As long as said paladin/priest can continue to conceal both his alignment and the fact that he can't use any of his class abilities, he can continue to trick all around him. If it goes for too long and the local faithful just never notice, that speaks poorly of them.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

DominusMegadeus wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
Is there any way for paladin turn evil and a evil priest hide in hierarchy of good clergy for several years before being found out by the faithful?
Do your Clerics/Paladins regularly scan their friends for Evil? If you really feel like it'll be an issue, cast Undetectable Alignment every morning for 24 hour protection.

I'll answer the questions here.

That said, as I mentioned in the previous post, detecting alignment is the least likely way that others will notice this. The character mentioned as being an evil viper in the good guy nest would not have any class abilities, and as soon as someone realized that he couldn't cast even a zero level spell or wasn't immune to disease or any number of other "tells" then the gig would be up. I suspect that'd out an evil person in this situation a lot more quickly than merely having his alignment scanned.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

BLloyd607502 wrote:

If someone were to dig into it, what sort of crimes would they be able to lay at the feet of the Lumber Consortium? Who do they trade with when smuggling Darkwood, what evils are they involved with?

And importantly, how much do the People's Senate base their choices on morality rather than legality?
Local paladin is planning to resurrect Diggen of Diggen's rest and prove the Consortium lynched a child, then bring the Queen of Darkmoon Vale before the council to lay genocide at the feet of the Consortium basically, followed by a few witness accounts from women forced into prostitution/Prima Noctis'd by Thuldrin Kreed.
So, he has lots of emotional evidence, but how much will it count for really?

How much influence do they have, the Paladin has ranks in Knowledge (Law) and could probably bend their law team over a barrel and has a solution for the inevitable Embargo (Oddly enough, he's working with the Capitalistic Oracle on this one, the two usually don't get on at all), but what other tricks would the Consortium be able to pull if all this came at them out of apparently nowhere?
So far I've got assassins, thugs, embargo, their own law team (Including an Axomite), smearing his reputation with accusations of being a Chelish spy and possibly getting him hooked up on drug smuggling charges during the proceedings, but if the horrific things the Consortium condones would be enough to bypass the law by the shame of the council, they won't have time to throw down any long term plans will they?
So I'm wondering what they would be capable of, if something came up so suddenly.

That and he's planning to get Taladamor called up to detect lies the entire thing, by the council if he can.
How would Andoran as a whole react, to the revealing of such crimes upon free men?

I've honestly never really had that much input or done any work at all on the Lumber Consortium, but they're meant to be bad guys, so if you were the GM, you could have them be caught up in pretty much any type of crime that makes sense for your game. If you have a PC who is eager to bring them to justice, you should adjust your adventure to allow for that PC to find evidence to help his case, or you should explain to the player that this story line goes beyond the scope of what you have planned for the campaign.

If a player DOES manage to get evidence, I'd suspect the Lumber Consortium would try to shift blame over to as few of their individuals as possible so that when they're brought to justice, the Consortium can continue if with a few fewer members. But if the evidence is strong enough to convict and damn the whole thing, then Andoran would step in to imprison or dissolve the entire thing. Obviously this is a big change, and you should try to time it as a MAJOR plot development for your campaign that becomes a long-term but certainly reachable goal over the course of several levels of play.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

CorvusMask wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:
Is there any way for paladin turn evil and a evil priest hide in hierarchy of good clergy for several years before being found out by the faithful?
Do your Clerics/Paladins regularly scan their friends for Evil? If you really feel like it'll be an issue, cast Undetectable Alignment every morning for 24 hour protection.
Thats daily though. I'm trying to figure out whether its possible in pathfinder for leadership of good clerical organization get corrupted into evil(possibly by infiltrating evil priest) without anybody realizing it for years until the plot twist happens and heroes realize the truth type of plot <_<

It may have taken a few hours, but I've answered the question. As I've said many times before, if you want to continue the discussion/debate, please start a new thread for that purpose. I want to keep this thread as focused as possible on questions for my own sanity and to help keep it manageable.

Just keep in mind, the name of the thread is "Ask James Jacobs all your questions here," not, "Public forum for debating topics brought up while asking James Jacobs questions."

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