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Paizo Employee Creative Director

Ed Girallon Poe wrote:
James, would a vampire on the ethereal plane need to worry about sunlight?

No, because there's no sun on the ethereal plane.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Cheapy wrote:
You converted all the 3rd party prestige classes that were in RotRL to be something else in the anniversary edition, right?

Nope.

We converted the thaumaturge base class characters into other classes, becasue an update to a 3.5 3rd party base class was well beyond the scope of the book.

Other characters in the Adventure Path still have the prestige classes they did the first time around; I converted those prestige classes just for those characters but did not provide the full conversion for full use since that was beyond the scope of the book.


James Jacobs wrote:
Also, being able to say "In Golarion, prophecies don't work" is a really kinda cool and unique feature of the setting, especially when you consider that they DO work in pretty much every other fantasy...

Just out of curiosity, if a person left Golarion would he eventually be able to find a place where prophecy still worked? Other Planes? Other planets in the same solar system? Other Galaxies?

I'm not trying to find a way around the setting's restrictions. I'm just thinking that the events surrounding Aroden's death wouldn't have any effect upon places that were completely disconnected from it... such as Earth for example. Hah, it is so weird that suddenly these things about Earth have become valid questions since an adventure path is going there.

...suddenly I'm wondering if having a character from Golarion die on earth would send him to a different afterlife than dying on Golarion.


Thaumaturge Base Class!?


In Advanced Race Guide the Imperious Bloodline Sorceror has Pure Strain as a 13th level bonus spell. That spell does not exist. What is the actual spell?


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I've used the spell SIFT to discreetly read documents in a pile without moving them or even being able to find all parts of them. I've also used it to read letters within sealed envelopes while they were held by another person. I've searched enemies for concealed weapons and other items whilst keeping my distance. It can also be used to find certain traps while keeping one's distance.

I feel that the sight limitation listed in the spell doesn't apply to these tasks as the book, the pile of papers, and the letter are all within my line of sight. They are not around a corner or in another room. I absolutely CAN see the area I am searching.

The spell compares your Perception result (-5) against the DC to find "any hidden features, such as secret doors, traps, or hidden treasure."

But many people on these forums seem to think that you not only can't do what I describe, but are of the belief that the SIFT spell as written is completely useless since the Perception rules allow you to search an area from similar distances with only a -3 penalty (as opposes to the -5 penalty given by SIFT).

I disagree with these people as the very definition of hidden means you cannot perceive the thing that is hidden. If you CAN perceive the thing you are searching for, than you wouldn't need this spell to begin with.

I was hoping you could shed some insight into how the SIFT spell is meant to be used, maybe even including some examples of things that work and don't work with the spell.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Thaumaturge Base Class!?

Back in the 3.0 days, Green Ronin published the thaumaturge in Armies of the Abyss, then updated it to 3.5 in their Book of Fiends. It was, basically, a sort of cross between cleric and wizard that worshiped demons, cast spells, and as they leveled up got more and more deformed and corrupted and demonic. They could also summon familiars. There were two thaumaturges in the original Rise of the Runelords—I used the class for two reasons.

1) Because it fit perfectly the concepts for those characters.

2) Because I wanted to use 3rd party content. By using 3rd party content in our very first Adventure Path after moving away from the D&D magazines, we got ourselves a lot more options and choices than the relatively small number of them in the d20 SRD. Furthermore, as we were now a 3rd party publisher ourselves, Paizo wanted to try to help honor the spirit of the open gaming movement, which is to make our rules content totally open while periodically using content from other publishers.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Matrix Dragon wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Also, being able to say "In Golarion, prophecies don't work" is a really kinda cool and unique feature of the setting, especially when you consider that they DO work in pretty much every other fantasy...

Just out of curiosity, if a person left Golarion would he eventually be able to find a place where prophecy still worked? Other Planes? Other planets in the same solar system? Other Galaxies?

I'm not trying to find a way around the setting's restrictions. I'm just thinking that the events surrounding Aroden's death wouldn't have any effect upon places that were completely disconnected from it... such as Earth for example. Hah, it is so weird that suddenly these things about Earth have become valid questions since an adventure path is going there.

...suddenly I'm wondering if having a character from Golarion die on earth would send him to a different afterlife than dying on Golarion.

That depends on the GM. But the Great Beyond is intended to be so vast that anything any GM wants to put in there should be able to find a home somewhere.

And again... a MAJOR reason we put this element into our game is because we don't want our writers constantly using it as a crutch. For game content not being published by Paizo for Golarion... anything goes.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Lawful GM wrote:
In Advanced Race Guide the Imperious Bloodline Sorceror has Pure Strain as a 13th level bonus spell. That spell does not exist. What is the actual spell?

The actual spell is a spell not known to me as I did not work on that book at all. You'll need to post this question over in the rules forums for the book.


Hey James, I have a question. Yeah I know it is not a big surprise considering the names of this thread.

Anyhow this my question.

I have a elf character who is a elf cleric. The character is about 150 years old. So this character was alive while Aroden was alive and saw the effects of his death on the world and society. So my question is what was it like? What was the effect on elven lands?

I am guessing such a event would make a impact on the character.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Ravingdork wrote:

I've used the spell SIFT to discreetly read documents in a pile without moving them or even being able to find all parts of them. I've also used it to read letters within sealed envelopes while they were held by another person. I've searched enemies for concealed weapons and other items whilst keeping my distance. It can also be used to find certain traps while keeping one's distance.

I feel that the sight limitation listed in the spell doesn't apply to these tasks as the book, the pile of papers, and the letter are all within my line of sight. They are not around a corner or in another room. I absolutely CAN see the area I am searching.

The spell compares your Perception result (-5) against the DC to find "any hidden features, such as secret doors, traps, or hidden treasure."

But many people on these forums seem to think that you not only can't do what I describe, but are of the belief that the SIFT spell as written is completely useless since the Perception rules allow you to search an area from similar distances with only a -3 penalty (as opposes to the -5 penalty given by SIFT).

I disagree with these people as the very definition of hidden means you cannot perceive the thing that is hidden. If you CAN perceive the thing you are searching for, than you wouldn't need this spell to begin with.

I was hoping you could shed some insight into how the SIFT spell is meant to be used, maybe even including some examples of things that work and don't work with the spell.

Sounds like you've done a lot more thinking on the subject than I have.

Personally, I kinda wish the spell had never been invented—not because it is or isn't useful, but because I'm not a fan of cantrip creep.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

John Kretzer wrote:

I have a elf character who is a elf cleric. The character is about 150 years old. So this character was alive while Aroden was alive and saw the effects of his death on the world and society. So my question is what was it like? What was the effect on elven lands?

I am guessing such a event would make a impact on the character.

It certainly would, and that's one of several reasons why I kinda wish that starting ages were all about the same; you can stretch out old ages as far as you want without causing this kind of problem.

As for "what was the world like?" I can't answer that in the context of a forum post when that type of world creation energies needs to be aimed in a few minutes at developing the upcoming Worldwound book.

Especially since where the character was in the world really makes a difference; an experience in Westcrown at the time of Aroden's death is going to be drastically different from one in Absalom, or Riddleport, or Katapesh, or some tiny 1-horse thorp in Brevoy.


James Jacobs wrote:
John Kretzer wrote:

I have a elf character who is a elf cleric. The character is about 150 years old. So this character was alive while Aroden was alive and saw the effects of his death on the world and society. So my question is what was it like? What was the effect on elven lands?

I am guessing such a event would make a impact on the character.

It certainly would, and that's one of several reasons why I kinda wish that starting ages were all about the same; you can stretch out old ages as far as you want without causing this kind of problem.

As for "what was the world like?" I can't answer that in the context of a forum post when that type of world creation energies needs to be aimed in a few minutes at developing the upcoming Worldwound book.

Especially since where the character was in the world really makes a difference; an experience in Westcrown at the time of Aroden's death is going to be drastically different from one in Absalom, or Riddleport, or Katapesh, or some tiny 1-horse thorp in Brevoy.

While I agree with you about starting ages in the game...I don't see this as a problem. I think it is kinda of interesting to RP. Though I do understand this question might be kinda of hard to answear as forum post. Maybe I'll start a thread to get somes ideas.


I'll ask a simpler question about Aroden's death. How fast did that infomation spread to the world? What was the tangible evidence that he had died other than supposely cleric no longer gaining spells?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

John Kretzer wrote:
I'll ask a simpler question about Aroden's death. How fast did that infomation spread to the world? What was the tangible evidence that he had died other than supposely cleric no longer gaining spells?

Well... the entire planet was covered with storms for a few weeks, so everyone knew SOMETHING had happened. In Sarkoris, though, they were more worried about the Worldwound. In Tian Xia it was the collapse of Lung Wa.

But that said, once Aroden died... all his clerics instantly lost the ability to prepare spells. Whether or not they could even still cast spells they'd already had prepared I can't say (but I would say that they could)... but if there was a cleric of Aroden in an area, that area would know more or less immediately that something major had happened. And since Aroden's priesthood was the most widespread in the Inner Sea region at the time... word spread VERY fast.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I like that line of reasoning there, Mr Tyrant Lizard. Clerics praying for spells are being invested with a portion of the god's power; once they've got the spells prepared, that power resides within them. Wouldn't it be interesting to have a few venerable clerics of Aroden with a few spells uncast and prepared since that day, holding out hope that they're keeping a part of their lord alive by keeping some small fragment of his power in Golarion?

Man, now my brain's a-buzzing . . .

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Stockvillain wrote:

I like that line of reasoning there, Mr Tyrant Lizard. Clerics praying for spells are being invested with a portion of the god's power; once they've got the spells prepared, that power resides within them. Wouldn't it be interesting to have a few venerable clerics of Aroden with a few spells uncast and prepared since that day, holding out hope that they're keeping a part of their lord alive by keeping some small fragment of his power in Golarion?

Man, now my brain's a-buzzing . . .

There could well be a few clerics of Aroden still out there with a few spells remaining. Since it's been 111 years, and since those clerics would have to already be adults in order to be clerics of a level high enough to justify keeping them around, those clerics would probably not be humans, and since Aroden was (among other things) the god of humanity... well... if we DID do an adventure featuring such a character, it would be tricky, since an elf cleric of Aroden isn't as likely, nor as appropriate.

Making the cleric into an undead creature is one option. Making the character a ghost is probably the best option there. But there are obviously other options as well (such as resurrection or sun orchid elixirs or temporal stasis, etc.). Having a character like this appear in an adventure would be a pretty significant event, though, an so I would make sure that it didn't just happen to be a semi-random guy in a low level adventure. It would have to be an EVENT.


James Jacobs wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Thaumaturge Base Class!?

Back in the 3.0 days, Green Ronin published the thaumaturge in Armies of the Abyss, then updated it to 3.5 in their Book of Fiends. It was, basically, a sort of cross between cleric and wizard that worshiped demons, cast spells, and as they leveled up got more and more deformed and corrupted and demonic. They could also summon familiars. There were two thaumaturges in the original Rise of the Runelords—I used the class for two reasons.

1) Because it fit perfectly the concepts for those characters.

2) Because I wanted to use 3rd party content. By using 3rd party content in our very first Adventure Path after moving away from the D&D magazines, we got ourselves a lot more options and choices than the relatively small number of them in the d20 SRD. Furthermore, as we were now a 3rd party publisher ourselves, Paizo wanted to try to help honor the spirit of the open gaming movement, which is to make our rules content totally open while periodically using content from other publishers.

Thanks! I like the concept of that class... Though the Witch seems like your take on it though. I notice that Paizo seems to still support their 3PP's by using their Content in APs and Modules. Such as in Shattered Star.

Any chance we might see another Deity based book similar to the "Faiths Of..." or a book detailing different Real World Pantheons for use in games?


Azaelas Fayth wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Thaumaturge Base Class!?

Back in the 3.0 days, Green Ronin published the thaumaturge in Armies of the Abyss, then updated it to 3.5 in their Book of Fiends. It was, basically, a sort of cross between cleric and wizard that worshiped demons, cast spells, and as they leveled up got more and more deformed and corrupted and demonic. They could also summon familiars. There were two thaumaturges in the original Rise of the Runelords—I used the class for two reasons.

1) Because it fit perfectly the concepts for those characters.

2) Because I wanted to use 3rd party content. By using 3rd party content in our very first Adventure Path after moving away from the D&D magazines, we got ourselves a lot more options and choices than the relatively small number of them in the d20 SRD. Furthermore, as we were now a 3rd party publisher ourselves, Paizo wanted to try to help honor the spirit of the open gaming movement, which is to make our rules content totally open while periodically using content from other publishers.

Thanks! I like the concept of that class... Though the Witch seems like your take on it though. I notice that Paizo seems to still support their 3PP's by using their Content in APs and Modules. Such as in Shattered Star.

Any chance we might see another Deity based book similar to the "Faiths Of..." or a book detailing different Real World Pantheons for use in games?

Like 2nd Edition Legends and Lore.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Any chance we might see another Deity based book similar to the "Faiths Of..." or a book detailing different Real World Pantheons for use in games?

I'd LOVE to do a book like that... but when I pitched the idea upstairs, management didn't like the idea so much.

It still might happen some day in the future, but it's looking doubtful.

Shadow Lodge

I know your rulings aren't official ... but I'm having some issues (and I know others are as well) with a certain aspect of how Archetypes function with other Archetypes

2 examples come to mind quickly ... Qinggong Monk and Crossblood Sorcerers

both of these Archetypes Provide Options Rather than outright replacing Class features ...

SRD wrote:
A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the base class as another alternate class feature. For example, a fighter could not be both an armor master and a brawler, since both archetypes replace the weapon training 1 class feature with something different.

the question comes down to ... does the inclusion of options constitute altering a class feature


Figured... I would be happy with it being a Free PDF or Blog Post.

On-The-Cleric-of-Aroden: That seems like a good tie in with Wrath of the Righteous... A Ghostly Cleric who hopes to onne day see his God return...

Sounds like some Christians in my area...

Silver Crusade

What conventions do you go to?

Grand Lodge

James Jacobs wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Any chance we might see another Deity based book similar to the "Faiths Of..." or a book detailing different Real World Pantheons for use in games?

I'd LOVE to do a book like that... but when I pitched the idea upstairs, management didn't like the idea so much.

It still might happen some day in the future, but it's looking doubtful.

What about Kickstarters? Other companies are doing them in droves, and while I'm sure Paizo wouldn't want to saturate themselves or bankrupt their fans, wouldn't make sense that IF it's fully funded, that there's an obvious market for it?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Wraith235 wrote:

I know your rulings aren't official ... but I'm having some issues (and I know others are as well) with a certain aspect of how Archetypes function with other Archetypes

2 examples come to mind quickly ... Qinggong Monk and Crossblood Sorcerers

both of these Archetypes Provide Options Rather than outright replacing Class features ...

SRD wrote:
A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the base class as another alternate class feature. For example, a fighter could not be both an armor master and a brawler, since both archetypes replace the weapon training 1 class feature with something different.

the question comes down to ... does the inclusion of options constitute altering a class feature

If it alters a class feature, it alters a class feature. Inclusion of new options for an existing class feature, in my opinion, does not alter that class feature—it's like adding new rage powers to a barbarian or new rogue tricks or new wizard spells.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Figured... I would be happy with it being a Free PDF or Blog Post.

A "Deities & Demigods" style book is WAY too huge and interesting of a project and idea to be justified as a free PDF or Blog Post.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

lucky7 wrote:
What conventions do you go to?

Every year I attend Paizocon and Gen Con, both as an employee of Paizo.

I went to Norwescon one year as an employee of Paizo to do some seminars.

Beyond that, I don't go to conventions at all, although I might in the future end up going to one for Paizo now and then beyond Paizocon and Gen Con.

Sovereign Court Contributor

James Jacobs wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Figured... I would be happy with it being a Free PDF or Blog Post.

A "Deities & Demigods" style book is WAY too huge and interesting of a project and idea to be justified as a free PDF or Blog Post.

Does Ultimate Campaign cover pantheon design?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

kevin_video wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Any chance we might see another Deity based book similar to the "Faiths Of..." or a book detailing different Real World Pantheons for use in games?

I'd LOVE to do a book like that... but when I pitched the idea upstairs, management didn't like the idea so much.

It still might happen some day in the future, but it's looking doubtful.

What about Kickstarters? Other companies are doing them in droves, and while I'm sure Paizo wouldn't want to saturate themselves or bankrupt their fans, wouldn't make sense that IF it's fully funded, that there's an obvious market for it?

Paizo doesn't need a kickstarter to fund a book like this. We have the funds already to do books like this.

And a kickstarter won't solve the problem of who does the work.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Jeff Erwin wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Figured... I would be happy with it being a Free PDF or Blog Post.

A "Deities & Demigods" style book is WAY too huge and interesting of a project and idea to be justified as a free PDF or Blog Post.
Does Ultimate Campaign cover pantheon design?

Nope. Not in the slightest.

Ultimate Campaign does involve things like building cults and temples and the like, but it uses the established Golarion deities for names when needed.

Sovereign Court Contributor

James Jacobs wrote:
Jeff Erwin wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Figured... I would be happy with it being a Free PDF or Blog Post.

A "Deities & Demigods" style book is WAY too huge and interesting of a project and idea to be justified as a free PDF or Blog Post.
Does Ultimate Campaign cover pantheon design?

Nope. Not in the slightest.

Ultimate Campaign does involve things like building cults and temples and the like, but it uses the established Golarion deities for names when needed.

OK. Then we do need this Deities and Demigods book (or Gods and Gojiras book, or whatnot). Because pantheon design and thinking about all that - including RW examples - would be phenomenally useful to home brewers. And people who jury-rig Golarion.

Sovereign Court Contributor

I noticed this article about apes who like to solve problems for fun (i.e., gaming).
I like to think gaming is hardwired. That Paizo (to game) is about being primates. Not sure why. But all adventures are in part puzzles that simulate the skills we once needed as hunter-gatherers.
Not a question, just a share. Have a fun Sunday.


That was what I was thinking. And I was meaning a Blog Post with say specific Deities from other Pantheons detailed out like the Golarion Deities.

Heck, you could even make it multiple blog posts...

But a Web Enhancement detailing ways to design a Pantheon would be handy. Maybe show how you would convert say the Hellenistic Pantheon and give the steps to determine a gods Domain, Profile, Favoured Weapon, etc.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Jeff Erwin wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Jeff Erwin wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Figured... I would be happy with it being a Free PDF or Blog Post.

A "Deities & Demigods" style book is WAY too huge and interesting of a project and idea to be justified as a free PDF or Blog Post.
Does Ultimate Campaign cover pantheon design?

Nope. Not in the slightest.

Ultimate Campaign does involve things like building cults and temples and the like, but it uses the established Golarion deities for names when needed.

OK. Then we do need this Deities and Demigods book (or Gods and Gojiras book, or whatnot). Because pantheon design and thinking about all that - including RW examples - would be phenomenally useful to home brewers. And people who jury-rig Golarion.

And therein lies the complication.

We actually don't have a rulebook line that specifically is built for home-brewers or jury-riggers. The current hardcover line is probably the best-suited for this type of book, but with the exception of Gamemastery Guide, we haven't yet really done a book that talks about things like world design at all, and unless we suddenly see a huge demand for that kind of thing, it's unlikely to be something we'll do anytime soon.

Contributor

James Jacobs wrote:
Stockvillain wrote:

I like that line of reasoning there, Mr Tyrant Lizard. Clerics praying for spells are being invested with a portion of the god's power; once they've got the spells prepared, that power resides within them. Wouldn't it be interesting to have a few venerable clerics of Aroden with a few spells uncast and prepared since that day, holding out hope that they're keeping a part of their lord alive by keeping some small fragment of his power in Golarion?

Man, now my brain's a-buzzing . . .

There could well be a few clerics of Aroden still out there with a few spells remaining. Since it's been 111 years, and since those clerics would have to already be adults in order to be clerics of a level high enough to justify keeping them around, those clerics would probably not be humans, and since Aroden was (among other things) the god of humanity... well... if we DID do an adventure featuring such a character, it would be tricky, since an elf cleric of Aroden isn't as likely, nor as appropriate.

There was actually an elf cleric of Aroden in Tower of the Last Baron. He's a rather sad fellow.

Sovereign Court Contributor

James Jacobs wrote:
Jeff Erwin wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Jeff Erwin wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Figured... I would be happy with it being a Free PDF or Blog Post.

A "Deities & Demigods" style book is WAY too huge and interesting of a project and idea to be justified as a free PDF or Blog Post.
Does Ultimate Campaign cover pantheon design?

Nope. Not in the slightest.

Ultimate Campaign does involve things like building cults and temples and the like, but it uses the established Golarion deities for names when needed.

OK. Then we do need this Deities and Demigods book (or Gods and Gojiras book, or whatnot). Because pantheon design and thinking about all that - including RW examples - would be phenomenally useful to home brewers. And people who jury-rig Golarion.

And therein lies the complication.

We actually don't have a rulebook line that specifically is built for home-brewers or jury-riggers. The current hardcover line is probably the best-suited for this type of book, but with the exception of Gamemastery Guide, we haven't yet really done a book that talks about things like world design at all, and unless we suddenly see a huge demand for that kind of thing, it's unlikely to be something we'll do anytime soon.

Yep, Gamemastery Guide. My red right hand. Or ready handy game mastering ideas book - it's exactly what I was thinking.

How many people homebrew from Golarion? How many people have an entirely new world? I don't know? Heretics from canon and imaginative GMs, however, power a lot of potential new content back to Golarion...
Here's another possible survey that could serve Paizo's marketing and design decisions, however.

Grand Lodge

Jeff Erwin wrote:
Here's another possible survey that could serve Paizo's marketing and design decisions, however.

Agreed.


I have only a working Knowledge of Golarion. I am trying to get into Golarion-Based APs/Campaign in hopes of learning more about it.

So I would really like a Deity Design Aid.

Hmm...

Contributor

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

I have only a working Knowledge of Golarion. I am trying to get into Golarion-Based APs/Campaign in hopes of learning more about it.

So I would really like a Deity Design Aid.

Hmm...

I can sort of see why there's no plans to ever talk about deities outside of the Golarion ones. There's plenty of resources to learn about those deities. In books, Wikipedia, and various other sources. Despite the name, I picked up a copy of "Mythology for Dummies" many years back and it taught me EVERYTHING I needed to know about the real world deities I was interested in. I use real world deities in my homebrewed setting, as a matter of fact.

I think one of the things that works against Paizo in this aspect is the fact that deities are considered to be abstract entities that don't get stats of any kind. What is there to stat out about deities? You pick a favored weapon, a few Cleric Domains / Sundomains, maybe Inquisitions if you want to assign them on a deity-by-deity basis. You don't need a book to do that, and because of that a Pathfinder Deities and Demigods simply wouldn't be Deities and Demigods. With no need for any rules, it'd basically be my copy of Mythology for Dummies. With a Wayne Reynolds cover, which is admittedly awesome.


I can understand that. All I am saying is a web-enhancement for how to determine what domains relate to what would be handy for a lot of newer GMs. It might even help some experienced GMs when they get writer's block.

Heck, it could even be a foot note in the Mythic Ruleset and tie into characters becoming Demi-Gods.

Sovereign Court Contributor

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:

I have only a working Knowledge of Golarion. I am trying to get into Golarion-Based APs/Campaign in hopes of learning more about it.

So I would really like a Deity Design Aid.

Hmm...

I can sort of see why there's no plans to ever talk about deities outside of the Golarion ones. There's plenty of resources to learn about those deities. In books, Wikipedia, and various other sources. Despite the name, I picked up a copy of "Mythology for Dummies" many years back and it taught me EVERYTHING I needed to know about the real world deities I was interested in. I use real world deities in my homebrewed setting, as a matter of fact.

I think one of the things that works against Paizo in this aspect is the fact that deities are considered to be abstract entities that don't get stats of any kind. What is there to stat out about deities? You pick a favored weapon, a few Cleric Domains / Sundomains, maybe Inquisitions if you want to assign them on a deity-by-deity basis. You don't need a book to do that, and because of that a Pathfinder Deities and Demigods simply wouldn't be Deities and Demigods. With no need for any rules, it'd basically be my copy of Mythology for Dummies. With a Wayne Reynolds cover, which is admittedly awesome.

Truthfully, most RPG approaches to RW deities have been one-dimensional or at least distorted. It's hard to take on RW myth without doing this. And basic mythology texts don't give a lot of useful or intriguing info on the gods beyond the big ones - Egyptian, Greco-Roman, sometimes Aztec, Hindu and Chinese. The latter two are are particularly distorted in the RPGs covering them, besides the fact they're still worshipped today by billions of people.

I was more thinking of "how to design a mythos" or "interesting iterations and unusual belief structures you can ponder while designing a mythos."
One approach would be to integrate it, to a degree, in the Mythic rules. Mythic rules = mythic storytelling, which most likely involves gods.


The For Dummies book he referenced IIRC only deals with the Hellenistic Pantheon...

I personally am trying to convert Deities & Demigods's Norse Pantheon into Pathfinder's Domains/Sub-Domain/Inquisitions set-up.

Contributor

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

The For Dummies book he referenced IIRC only deals with the Hellenistic Pantheon...

I personally am trying to convert Deities & Demigods's Norse Pantheon into Pathfinder's Domains/Sub-Domain/Inquisitions set-up.

Do we have the same book? Mine talks about Greek / Roman, Norse, Egyptian, Babaloynian, and Shinto and the concept of animism as a whole.


If it is Mythology for Dummies it only covers Hellenistic Deities.

Wait when was it published.


James Jacobs wrote:
Stockvillain wrote:

I like that line of reasoning there, Mr Tyrant Lizard. Clerics praying for spells are being invested with a portion of the god's power; once they've got the spells prepared, that power resides within them. Wouldn't it be interesting to have a few venerable clerics of Aroden with a few spells uncast and prepared since that day, holding out hope that they're keeping a part of their lord alive by keeping some small fragment of his power in Golarion?

Man, now my brain's a-buzzing . . .

There could well be a few clerics of Aroden still out there with a few spells remaining. Since it's been 111 years, and since those clerics would have to already be adults in order to be clerics of a level high enough to justify keeping them around, those clerics would probably not be humans, and since Aroden was (among other things) the god of humanity... well... if we DID do an adventure featuring such a character, it would be tricky, since an elf cleric of Aroden isn't as likely, nor as appropriate.

Making the cleric into an undead creature is one option. Making the character a ghost is probably the best option there. But there are obviously other options as well (such as resurrection or sun orchid elixirs or temporal stasis, etc.). Having a character like this appear in an adventure would be a pretty significant event, though, an so I would make sure that it didn't just happen to be a semi-random guy in a low level adventure. It would have to be an EVENT.

Half elf mayhaps?

Sczarni

James, since elves adapt their appearance so much to their environment, what do elves from Sovyrian look like compared to, say, Kyonin elves? (Or are there multiple environments for the elves on Catrovel?)

And can elves always tell that other elves are the same species? Or could there maybe be some environments so extreme that the changes would render them unrecognizable?


How prevalent are hydras in the darklands?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Alexander Augunas wrote:
What is there to stat out about deities? You pick a favored weapon, a few Cleric Domains / Sundomains, maybe Inquisitions if you want to assign them on a deity-by-deity basis. You don't need a book to do that, and because of that a Pathfinder Deities and Demigods simply wouldn't be Deities and Demigods. With no need for any rules, it'd basically be my copy of Mythology for Dummies. With a Wayne Reynolds cover, which is admittedly awesome.

Quite a lot.

Were I to do a book like Deities & Demigods for Pathfinder, it'd probably have 8 chapters or so. Each chapter would focus on a different real-world mythology, and would consist of 10 or so deity entries akin to how we handled the right page facing entries for the demon lords of Lords of Chaos; each deity gets a symbol, an illustration, a short stat block of things like alignment and favored weapon and boons it grants, and then about a half page's worth of text about the deity and all that. Then, at the end of each of those chapters would be a catch-all section that presented new feats, archetypes, prestige classes, spells, magic items, monsters, and the like tied to that particular mythology. It'd probably also include stats for that deity's CR 15 herald.

No stats for actual deities required.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Also, the Pathfinder Deities & Demigods book probably needs to move on to its own thread at this point.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Trinite wrote:

James, since elves adapt their appearance so much to their environment, what do elves from Sovyrian look like compared to, say, Kyonin elves? (Or are there multiple environments for the elves on Catrovel?)

And can elves always tell that other elves are the same species? Or could there maybe be some environments so extreme that the changes would render them unrecognizable?

Sovyrian elves look the same, more or less, as Kyonin elves. There's a reason the elven nation on Golarion is in Kyonin; that's the closest analog in the inner sea to what Sovyrian is like, after all.

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