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Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Nicos wrote:

Hi.

Currently i am Dming a campaing in the Forgotten realms setting using pathfinder as a base sytem an including 3.5 material.
I also use a lot of Ad&d book, they are great to add the FR flavor to the campaing, and I noted that thera are a lot of books that (I Think) would never get published by paizo or (Wotc 3.x edition)

book like

- the seven sister
- heroes lore book ( and his evil twin)

So, mi question is, what change in the industry in the las two (and a bit more) decades that make that happens?

NOTE: I ask because this trhead seem interesting to me

Keep in mind that Paizo's been publishing books for Golarion for about 4 years. D&D books have been published for close to 40 years... so it's no surprise that there's a lot more options in the types of books available for the various incarnations of D&D.

We'll get there, though! And along the way, I suspect we WILL be printing books more along the lines of those you mention... especially once the Pathfinder Tales line settles in some more!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hi James--

I was staring at the front cover of Burnt Offerings the other day and I noticed there were signs on the shops in the background. One of them is for the Fatman's Feedbag and the other is for the Pixie's Kitten.

I don't know what prompted me to turn to the map in the back, but I did, and discovered that the buildings in the map are in the same relative places as depicted in the picture.

We all know by now that Wayne Reynolds is awesome, but my question is this: how did this particular instance of awesomeness come about? Was the map first and Wayne just painted the right establishments in the right spot? Were the signs in the painting first and you created establishments and their positions to match? This has made me very curious!

Thanks,
--Mike


Hi James,

are there any future plans to publish an AP placed in Taldor or Taldor and Qadira ?

Thanks,
Dimitris

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Jaçinto wrote:


So if I use it on an arrow would it be fine? Cause the head goes in someone and the shaft would stick out. Or is this a generalization that the entire peice of ammunition, upon a hit, crumbles to dust? Kinda kills a lot of fantasy movies where you see an arrow sticking out of someone.

Those fantasy movies also usually mean one arrow equals one kill. Game mechanics aren't generally that simulationist.

The thing about bringing realism to D&D games. It's got one major drawback.... your players are generally dead after the first session.

I assume you mean that your "CHARACTERS" are generally dead...

Sometimes "realism" just goes a bit too far. Especially if you play D%D on Satelite Five. :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
cynarion wrote:


I was staring at the front cover of Burnt Offerings the other day and I noticed there were signs on the shops in the background. One of them is for the Fatman's Feedbag and the other is for the Pixie's Kitten.

I noticed this a few years back, then I tried to pinpoint the location on the map. I think it was Salmon Street facing west.

The funny thing is, the battle would have to go very poorly indeed for the goblins to be there during the battle as presented in Burnt Offerings.


James, why the Fast XP Progression table counts 13 encounters to level up and not 10?

After Book of the Damned 3, can we expect good and neutral outsiders books? And the angels, as they shall be in those books?


James Jacobs wrote:
Nicos wrote:

Hi.

Currently i am Dming a campaing in the Forgotten realms setting using pathfinder as a base sytem an including 3.5 material.
I also use a lot of Ad&d book, they are great to add the FR flavor to the campaing, and I noted that thera are a lot of books that (I Think) would never get published by paizo or (Wotc 3.x edition)

book like

- the seven sister
- heroes lore book ( and his evil twin)

So, mi question is, what change in the industry in the las two (and a bit more) decades that make that happens?

NOTE: I ask because this trhead seem interesting to me

Keep in mind that Paizo's been publishing books for Golarion for about 4 years. D&D books have been published for close to 40 years... so it's no surprise that there's a lot more options in the types of books available for the various incarnations of D&D.

We'll get there, though! And along the way, I suspect we WILL be printing books more along the lines of those you mention... especially once the Pathfinder Tales line settles in some more!

Interesting. So, what book would you love to see published in the distant future(without concerning if it render profit or not)


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Monkeygod wrote:
Hey James, even though you were technically "too old" to watch them, did you watch any of the various dinosaur themed shows during the 80s and 90s and if so, which ones??

First of all... I'm not too old right NOW to watch dinosaur shows.

I watched the HECK out of Land of the Lost. And the episode of Gilligan's Island where Gilligan dreams he's a caveman and sees a dinosaur was one of my favorites.

Did you like The Land Before Time?
No. Once dinosaurs start talking... I get annoyed.

What if they start singing? ;)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

cynarion wrote:

Hi James--

I was staring at the front cover of Burnt Offerings the other day and I noticed there were signs on the shops in the background. One of them is for the Fatman's Feedbag and the other is for the Pixie's Kitten.

I don't know what prompted me to turn to the map in the back, but I did, and discovered that the buildings in the map are in the same relative places as depicted in the picture.

We all know by now that Wayne Reynolds is awesome, but my question is this: how did this particular instance of awesomeness come about? Was the map first and Wayne just painted the right establishments in the right spot? Were the signs in the painting first and you created establishments and their positions to match? This has made me very curious!

Thanks,
--Mike

Once Wayne turned over his art, I made sure to put Fatman's Feedbag and the Pixie's Kitten (and made sure to name them to match their signs) in a location that would match the art.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Dimitris wrote:

Hi James,

are there any future plans to publish an AP placed in Taldor or Taldor and Qadira ?

Thanks,
Dimitris

We generally don't reveal our plans for future APs until we announce them. So... maybe yes... maybe no.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Evil Lincoln wrote:
cynarion wrote:


I was staring at the front cover of Burnt Offerings the other day and I noticed there were signs on the shops in the background. One of them is for the Fatman's Feedbag and the other is for the Pixie's Kitten.

I noticed this a few years back, then I tried to pinpoint the location on the map. I think it was Salmon Street facing west.

The funny thing is, the battle would have to go very poorly indeed for the goblins to be there during the battle as presented in Burnt Offerings.

Indeed. Of course... the fact that at least one goblin got into a closet that far south means that a few more could probably make it all the way down there...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Bruno Mares wrote:
James, why the Fast XP Progression table counts 13 encounters to level up and not 10?

Because that's the number Jason decided on, after crunching the numbers and doing a fair amount of complicated math.

Bruno Mares wrote:
After Book of the Damned 3, can we expect good and neutral outsiders books? And the angels, as they shall be in those books?

There's been a lot of interest in a book about the good outsiders. It's certainly an intriguing idea... although such a topic would NOT be part of the Book of the Damned series.

Likewise, I'm not 100% sure that book three of the Book of the Damned is the last in THAT series...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Nicos wrote:
Interesting. So, what book would you love to see published in the distant future(without concerning if it render profit or not)

Keep an eye on our future announcements... we generally don't speak publicly about books we're working on or have planned to start working on, even though we DO know what books we'll be doing generally a year or two in advance.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Justin Franklin wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Monkeygod wrote:
Hey James, even though you were technically "too old" to watch them, did you watch any of the various dinosaur themed shows during the 80s and 90s and if so, which ones??

First of all... I'm not too old right NOW to watch dinosaur shows.

I watched the HECK out of Land of the Lost. And the episode of Gilligan's Island where Gilligan dreams he's a caveman and sees a dinosaur was one of my favorites.

Did you like The Land Before Time?
No. Once dinosaurs start talking... I get annoyed.
What if they start singing? ;)

That's when the fisticuffs start.

Dark Archive

hey James, given the large number of 3PP out there, what would you like to see these guys making? rules? settings? monsters?


James Jacobs wrote:
cynarion wrote:

Hi James--

I was staring at the front cover of Burnt Offerings the other day and I noticed there were signs on the shops in the background. One of them is for the Fatman's Feedbag and the other is for the Pixie's Kitten.

I don't know what prompted me to turn to the map in the back, but I did, and discovered that the buildings in the map are in the same relative places as depicted in the picture.

We all know by now that Wayne Reynolds is awesome, but my question is this: how did this particular instance of awesomeness come about? Was the map first and Wayne just painted the right establishments in the right spot? Were the signs in the painting first and you created establishments and their positions to match? This has made me very curious!

Thanks,
--Mike

Once Wayne turned over his art, I made sure to put Fatman's Feedbag and the Pixie's Kitten (and made sure to name them to match their signs) in a location that would match the art.

On a related note, I always thought it was really great that the depiction of Foxglove Manor on the cover of "The Skinsaw Murders" actually matches the layout of the house.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

ulgulanoth wrote:
hey James, given the large number of 3PP out there, what would you like to see these guys making? rules? settings? monsters?

I'd like to see them make games that make them successful and famous and profitable, whatever those games might be. What's good for 3PP is good for Paizo.

And I'd rather NOT throw out a lot of "it'd be cool if someone did..." comments, since A) I'd rather save those ideas for Paizo and B) I much prefer being surprised by 3PP content. One of the unusual side effects of working at a company that produces things you'd buy the heck out of if you didn't work there is that you miss out on the joy and excitement of picking up a new book and being surprised and delighted by the contents. That's the best value a 3PP has to me, personally—they produce things that delight and surprise me.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Power Word Unzip wrote:
On a related note, I always thought it was really great that the depiction of Foxglove Manor on the cover of "The Skinsaw Murders" actually matches the layout of the house.

Cool!

That was a case where I pretty much HAD to completely redraw the entire map in order to match the art. Rich's original map of the haunted house was pretty different—there was a lot more stuff going on against the cliffside under the house, for one thing. And it kinda didn't really look like a house anyway, but more like a weirdo Winchester Mystery House. Which was neat... but not what we needed for the adventure.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Justin Franklin wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Monkeygod wrote:
Hey James, even though you were technically "too old" to watch them, did you watch any of the various dinosaur themed shows during the 80s and 90s and if so, which ones??

First of all... I'm not too old right NOW to watch dinosaur shows.

I watched the HECK out of Land of the Lost. And the episode of Gilligan's Island where Gilligan dreams he's a caveman and sees a dinosaur was one of my favorites.

Did you like The Land Before Time?
No. Once dinosaurs start talking... I get annoyed.
What if they start singing? ;)
That's when the fisticuffs start.

Does this mean that there are no dinosaur bards?


Quote:

What if they start singing? ;)

There.were.no.Sequels.

NONE.

Dark Archive

Kieviel wrote:
Does this mean that there are no dinosaur bards?

The morale bonus from bardic performance doesn't stack with the morale bonus they get for being a dinosaur.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Set wrote:
Kieviel wrote:
Does this mean that there are no dinosaur bards?

The morale bonus from bardic performance doesn't stack with the morale bonus they get for being a dinosaur.

That's probably a good point...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Kieviel wrote:
Does this mean that there are no dinosaur bards?

Note that bards do more than sing. You can make a bard who never had and never will sing a word.

What keeps dinosaurs from being bards is the fact that they'e animals who don't understand things like language or society or the like. AKA: Intelligence 2 locks out pretty much every character class, bard, barbarian, and everything in between.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Kieviel wrote:
Does this mean that there are no dinosaur bards?

Note that bards do more than sing. You can make a bard who never had and never will sing a word.

What keeps dinosaurs from being bards is the fact that they'e animals who don't understand things like language or society or the like. AKA: Intelligence 2 locks out pretty much every character class, bard, barbarian, and everything in between.

*scurries of to find a druid that is willing to awaken a dinosaur*

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Kieviel wrote:
Does this mean that there are no dinosaur bards?

Note that bards do more than sing. You can make a bard who never had and never will sing a word.

And on Avatar, the Last Airbender, you've have a Bard with obviously no ranks in Perform whatsoever.

"Don't look now, but I think that bald-headed kid is the Avatar!"

*facepalm*

Silver Crusade

If only there were some way to raise a dinosaur's intelligence...


As creative director, you obviously have a lot of say in what goes into pathfinder, but being part of an organization you can't have complete control.

If you could change anything about the rules of pathfinder (or setting of Golarion) what would you change?


Mr jj

What does " melee weapon" in crane wing mean? Do natural attacks count?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

jonnythm wrote:

As creative director, you obviously have a lot of say in what goes into pathfinder, but being part of an organization you can't have complete control.

If you could change anything about the rules of pathfinder (or setting of Golarion) what would you change?

I would have put into the Core Rulebook a line of text that says:

"Clerics must pick a deity."

Paizo Employee Creative Director

klevis69 wrote:

Mr jj

What does " melee weapon" in crane wing mean? Do natural attacks count?

It means exactly that—a weapon used in melee. Could be a manufactured weapon, could be a natural attack. As long as it's a MELEE attack and not a RANGED attack, you can try to deflect it.


Kieviel wrote:
*scurries of to find a druid that is willing to awaken a dinosaur*

Hmm. Due to a series of improbable events, I've got a cleric who can prepare druid spells, including those of 5th level. Can you explain how casting awaken on a dinosaur would further the interests of a deity of magic, this cleric's goal of ascending to divinity herself, and/or increase my supply of beer?

James Jacobs question:

Assuming someone awakened a sufficient breeding population of a dinosaur in Golarion, would the status of magical beast and the increased intelligence be characteristics inherited by the descendants of this breeding population, or would the awakened parents be doomed to have only nonsapient, baseline-animal children?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.
see wrote:
Assuming someone awakened a sufficient breeding population of a dinosaur in Golarion, would the status of magical beast and the increased intelligence be characteristics inherited by the descendants of this breeding population, or would the awakened parents be doomed to have only nonsapient, baseline-animal children?

Depends on who was running the game. If it were me... those deinonychuses would become a PC race, with racial hit dice, and as a result all the players who knew the rules would play deinonychuses and thus ensure that humanity went away.


Dear James Jacobs,

With the below quote in mind, how long could I expect the following character to survive if I played it in a campaign you are/were DMing:

a7th level human with the Leadership feat and the racial trait that trades the bonus feat for a +2 bonus to a cohort / companion's ability score, selecting a Tyrannosaurs Rex monstrous cohort with Leadership, using the racial trait to increase my Dinosaur's Intelligence to 4, then choosing to further advance my dinosaur with levels in Bard, having its Bardic Performance being it roaring melodiously?

James Jacobs wrote:
Kieviel wrote:
Does this mean that there are no dinosaur bards?

Note that bards do more than sing. You can make a bard who never had and never will sing a word.

What keeps dinosaurs from being bards is the fact that they'e animals who don't understand things like language or society or the like. AKA: Intelligence 2 locks out pretty much every character class, bard, barbarian, and everything in between.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Golden-Esque wrote:

Dear James Jacobs,

With the below quote in mind, how long could I expect the following character to survive if I played it in a campaign you are/were DMing:

a7th level human with the Leadership feat and the racial trait that trades the bonus feat for a +2 bonus to a cohort / companion's ability score, selecting a Tyrannosaurs Rex monstrous cohort with Leadership, using the racial trait to increase my Dinosaur's Intelligence to 4, then choosing to further advance my dinosaur with levels in Bard, having its Bardic Performance being it roaring melodiously?

James Jacobs wrote:
Kieviel wrote:
Does this mean that there are no dinosaur bards?

Note that bards do more than sing. You can make a bard who never had and never will sing a word.

What keeps dinosaurs from being bards is the fact that they'e animals who don't understand things like language or society or the like. AKA: Intelligence 2 locks out pretty much every character class, bard, barbarian, and everything in between.

That's a cute character... but wouldn't allow it. Too silly for games I like running. I'd suggest you play a druid or ranger (beastmaster) and instead take a T-rex as an animal companion.


Question related to banking in Golarion...

How feasible is it to purchase metals in bars instead of coinage.

For instance, four 5 pound bars of copper would be 20 pounds of copper and with 50 coins to the pound that would be equivalent to 1000 copper pieces or 10 gp. Of course, getting technical would mean taking into account that many coins have other metals because gold coins, for instance, would not have a lot of staying power due to being so soft and easily bent or worn away. But, that would probably outstrip the concerns of most games.

Do the banks of Golarion use such "devices" for trade and storage?
If so, are they available to those with the money and desire to purchase them?

Note: This idea is related to a concept for a character "starting" a bank in an area without much coinage on hand. I guess the other option would be to just amass the coinage and melt it into blocks or one's own coins...


see wrote:
Kieviel wrote:
*scurries of to find a druid that is willing to awaken a dinosaur*

Hmm. Due to a series of improbable events, I've got a cleric who can prepare druid spells, including those of 5th level. Can you explain how casting awaken on a dinosaur would further the interests of a deity of magic, this cleric's goal of ascending to divinity herself, and/or increase my supply of beer?

James Jacobs question:

Assuming someone awakened a sufficient breeding population of a dinosaur in Golarion, would the status of magical beast and the increased intelligence be characteristics inherited by the descendants of this breeding population, or would the awakened parents be doomed to have only nonsapient, baseline-animal children?

I have always been partial to having a vivisectionist alchemist make permanent anthropomorphic animals, drain their intelligence back down to 2 and then awaken them. Ideal means to duplicate Doctor Moreau's work and just as torturous.


James Jacobs wrote:
Depends on who was running the game. If it were me... those deinonychuses would become a PC race, with racial hit dice, and as a result all the players who knew the rules would play deinonychuses and thus ensure that humanity went away.

Okay, but let's assume the original druid has a healthy regard for the dangers posed to his own person by giving dozens of the flawless instruments of death that are deinonychuses human-level intelligence. Instead, the druid awakened two score psittacosauruses. Will their babies be intelligent baby psittacosauruses who in time will form the nucleus of a future world-spanning herbivorous dinosaur civilization?

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs wrote:
Kieviel wrote:
Does this mean that there are no dinosaur bards?

Note that bards do more than sing. You can make a bard who never had and never will sing a word.

What keeps dinosaurs from being bards is the fact that they'e animals who don't understand things like language or society or the like. AKA: Intelligence 2 locks out pretty much every character class, bard, barbarian, and everything in between.

I have just been struck by the image of a awakened dinosaur doing tip-tap to raise his friends morale ....

Maybe it is better if we stay with singing.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

The Thing from Beyond the Edge wrote:

Question related to banking in Golarion...

How feasible is it to purchase metals in bars instead of coinage.

For instance, four 5 pound bars of copper would be 20 pounds of copper and with 50 coins to the pound that would be equivalent to 1000 copper pieces or 10 gp. Of course, getting technical would mean taking into account that many coins have other metals because gold coins, for instance, would not have a lot of staying power due to being so soft and easily bent or worn away. But, that would probably outstrip the concerns of most games.

Do the banks of Golarion use such "devices" for trade and storage?
If so, are they available to those with the money and desire to purchase them?

Note: This idea is related to a concept for a character "starting" a bank in an area without much coinage on hand. I guess the other option would be to just amass the coinage and melt it into blocks or one's own coins...

It's certainly feasible. The game doesn't really get into the nitty-gritty of economics and money exchanges and all that, though–unless some day we do an adventure that depends on gold bars and the like, of course.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

see wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Depends on who was running the game. If it were me... those deinonychuses would become a PC race, with racial hit dice, and as a result all the players who knew the rules would play deinonychuses and thus ensure that humanity went away.
Okay, but let's assume the original druid has a healthy regard for the dangers posed to his own person by giving dozens of the flawless instruments of death that are deinonychuses human-level intelligence. Instead, the druid awakened two score psittacosauruses. Will their babies be intelligent baby psittacosauruses who in time will form the nucleus of a future world-spanning herbivorous dinosaur civilization?

No druid who made it to high enough level would be insane enough to waste time casting awaken on something like a psittacosaurus, though. So it's a trick question, since it'd never happen.


The Eldritch Heritage Feat, also garant access to the bonus spells list of the selected bloodline?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Black XIII wrote:
The Eldritch Heritage Feat, also garant access to the bonus spells list of the selected bloodline?

Nope. Just the first level bloodline power. No bloodline spells at all.


Can you combine Moonlight, Starlight, and Sunlight Summons?


That Guy With the Fox wrote:
Can you combine Moonlight, Starlight, and Sunlight Summons?

Sky-god!


Hey James can you explain to me about the Empyreal knights abilities.
the Voice of the Spheres that repalces Divine Grace.

if the paladin can already speak Celetial. does it replace it or does the paladin keep divine grace?

and what is the point of voice of the spheres when Celestial heart grants tongues through its truespeach ability at lvl 15.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

That Guy With the Fox wrote:
Can you combine Moonlight, Starlight, and Sunlight Summons?

Not really.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Steelfiredragon wrote:

Hey James can you explain to me about the Empyreal knights abilities.

the Voice of the Spheres that repalces Divine Grace.

if the paladin can already speak Celetial. does it replace it or does the paladin keep divine grace?

and what is the point of voice of the spheres when Celestial heart grants tongues through its truespeach ability at lvl 15.

If the paladin can already speak Celestial, the Voices of the Spheres is more or less a wasted power. It still swaps out divine grace—the paladin doesn't get to keep that ability.

The point of Voice of the Spheres is that you don't have to wait until level 15—there's a LOT of room between 2nd level and 15th level.


Line of Effect:
Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked
path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is
canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged
weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and
other factors that limit normal sight.
You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you
cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create
an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of
origin of any spell you cast.
A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only
an area, creature, or object to which it has line of effect
from its origin (a spherical burst’s center point, a coneshaped
burst’s starting point, a cylinder’s circle, or an
emanation’s point of origin).
An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1
square foot through it does not block a spell’s line of
effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of
wall containing
the hole is no longer considered a barrier
for purposes of a spell’s line of effect.

My player loves to use the spell Emergency Force Sphere from the book
Cheliax, Empire of Devils. Making a wall of force around himself.

In D&D there were heavier descriptions on the effects of a spell and how it originates and casts. Like fireball how it is a bead.
Now, inside the bubble...is it possible for him to cast outside? like summons or other effects? RAW says no to it all, regardless of how it originates...and the players are a tad annoyed that I am playing it how it is written, because it was different in D&D, Final word?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Sean Terrill wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

My player loves to use the spell Emergency Force Sphere from the book
Cheliax, Empire of Devils. Making a wall of force around himself.

In D&D there were heavier descriptions on the effects of a spell and how it originates and casts. Like fireball how it is a bead.
Now, inside the bubble...is it possible for him to cast outside? like summons or other effects? RAW says no to it all, regardless of how it originates...and the players are a tad annoyed that I am playing it how it is written, because it was different in D&D, Final word?

A bubble of force blocks line of effect.

If a spell requires line of effect, it's blocked.

If it doesn't say, the GM gets to decide.


James Jacobs wrote:
Sean Terrill wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

My player loves to use the spell Emergency Force Sphere from the book
Cheliax, Empire of Devils. Making a wall of force around himself.

In D&D there were heavier descriptions on the effects of a spell and how it originates and casts. Like fireball how it is a bead.
Now, inside the bubble...is it possible for him to cast outside? like summons or other effects? RAW says no to it all, regardless of how it originates...and the players are a tad annoyed that I am playing it how it is written, because it was different in D&D, Final word?

A bubble of force blocks line of effect.

If a spell requires line of effect, it's blocked.

If it doesn't say, the GM gets to decide.

For instance, Summon monster I, my player says that the summon can happen outside. how would you rule that?

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