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Paizo Employee Creative Director

Norin d'orien wrote:

Hello James, i am GMing kingmaker and one of my player is an asmodean cleric. Said player said that his long term objective would be to turn himself into a devil, possibly a new type, focussed on exploiting mortals lust to corrupt them. In the past i was scarred by allowing players to do whatever they wanted and i am now trying to keep things more balanced.

We had a couple of ideas on how to achieve such a thing and would like to know your opinion on which would be more balanced.
1) turning a part of his WBL in research, providing him with progressive bonus, comparable to those given by magical items
2) creating an 'outsider' prestige class with five or so level culminating in the trasformation into a native outsider
3) adapting the rules for demonics transformation.
4) some other direction?
Thanks for your suggestions!

Oh! Bonus question! Have you ever been to Italy?

There are rules for transforming into a demon in Lords of Chaos, and I believe they updated them to the newer ritual rules in Occult Realms. Use those rules but reflavor them for devils instead of demons.

I've not been to Italy. In fact, I've never been out of the USA, and have only left the west coast for Gen Con.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
I've not been to Italy. In fact, I've never been out of the USA, and have only left the west coast for Gen Con.

Are you interested in traveling in general?

If you are, what are the top three places outside the US that you would like to visit someday?

I know that Erik Mona was a guest of honor at an RPG convention here in Finland in 2011. Do Paizo guys travel abroad to cons a lot or was that a rare incident?


Jack, that fricking Rogue wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Jack, that fricking Rogue wrote:

Hey Mr. Jacobs, can one stealth as part of a Five Foot Step?

Ask your GM.

I'd allow it if I were your GM. Provided you were five-foot-stepping into a square that was a hiding spot, and you weren't being observed at the time by an adjacent foe or if it otherwise seemed logical that you wouldn't be able to do so. It'd be a judgement call I'd make each and every separate time a character attempted it.

If you had hide in plain sight, I'd let you do it even if you WERE being observed at the same time.

So if someone had HiPS, and they "Five-Foot Stealthed," could they fullround afterwards?

Grand Lodge

A skeleton has only bones. It has no eyes or other sensory organs. It has Darkvision 60ft.

Does that mean if the skeleton is in broad daylight on a flat plain, the skeleton cannot see at all, even in inch in front of it?

How about a Moon Beast with Blindsight 90ft. If it is on the same flat plain, can it only see everything within 90ft? Meaning everything beyond 90ft is blurred or dimmed or simply non-percievable?

If so, it would seem that the same holds for the skeleton above, then. Trying to figure out if we've been doing undead wrong who have to physical eyes to see and who do not have any other "visions."

In Vision and Light, it says, "In an area of bright light, all characters can see clearly." But the word "see" can't possibly be applied to all creatures, unless "see" equals "perceive." Like perception encompasses all senses, not just vision.

The Moon Beast (below) does, however, have Telepathy 300ft. Does this give him the ability to know *where* a being is within 300ft, or merely that a being is within 300ft?

Spoiler:
MOON-BEAST CR 11
XP 12,800
CE Large aberration
Init +7; Senses blindsight 90 ft.; Perception +21
DEFENSE

AC 25, touch 13, flat-footed 21 (+3 Dex, +1 dodge, +12 natural, –1 size)
hp 133 (14d8+70)
Fort +9, Ref +9, Will +15
Defensive Abilities amorphous; DR 10/piercing or slashing; Immune cold, gaze attacks, illusions, poison; Resist electricity 30; SR 22
OFFENSE

Speed 50 ft., climb 20 ft.; air walk
Melee 2 claws +15 (1d6+6), 4 tentacles +11 (1d6+3)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Special Attacks rend (2 tentacles, 1d6+9 plus Wisdom drain)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 11th; concentration +18)
Constant—air walk
At will—detect thoughts (DC 19)
3/day—charm monster (DC 21), dispel magic, dominate person (DC 22), shadow conjuration (DC 21), shadow evocation (DC 22), veil (DC 23)
1/day—confusion (DC 21), major image (DC 20), mirage arcana (DC 22), plane shift (self only)
STATISTICS

Str 22, Dex 17, Con 20, Int 19, Wis 18, Cha 25
Base Atk +10; CMB +17; CMD 31
Feats Combat Casting, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Weapon Focus (tentacle)
Skills Climb +14, Diplomacy +14, Intimidate +24, Knowledge (arcana) +11, Knowledge (planes) +18, Perception +21, Sense Motive +18, Spellcraft +21, Stealth +24, Use Magic Device +21; Racial Modifiers +8 Stealth
Languages Aklo (cannot speak); telepathy 300 ft.
SQ compression, no breath
ECOLOGY

Environment any land
Organization solitary, pair, or cabal (3–5)
Treasure double
SPECIAL ABILITIES

Wisdom Drain (Su) A creature that takes rend damage from a moon-beast must succeed at a DC 22 Will save or take 1d4 points of Wisdom drain. A moon-beast heals 5 points of damage for each point of Wisdom it drains in this manner. If it drains a victim to 0 Wisdom, the moon-beast gains the effects of a heal spell. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Moon-beasts have no voice or eyes, yet they "see" more than most and can project their thoughts into the very minds of those they wish to communicate with. These monstrosities hail not from any physical moon, but rather from the shared satellite of all slumbering minds in the Dimension of Dream beyond the wall of sleep. Here, the moon-beasts raise stone cities on the oily shores of night-black seas found upon the dark side of the dreaming moon, from which they launch long, dark galleys crewed by not-quite-human slaves that sail through the void of space down to the seas of the Dimension of Dream to seek new slaves and stranger, more sinister wares.

Moon-beasts are slavers, first and foremost. They use their spell-like abilities to curb rebellion or to quickly gain minions, but much prefer using physical and mental regimens of torment and reconditioning to break the spirit of their captives. They often work with the denizens of Leng, a metaphysically nearby dimension of nightmare and madness, although as often as not these planar neighbors serve the moon-beasts merely as slaves.

Worshipers of ageless entities from beyond the stars, moon-beasts are often compelled to travel to the Material Plane for strange and frightening causes, not the least of which is gathering suitable sacrifices for their mysterious and demanding lords.

A moon-beast is 9 feet long and weighs 800 pounds.


My question would be this... having Blind Sight, does the Moon Beast perceive normally beyond the 90ft? If a creature is located 95ft away, does the Moon Beast still perceive and locate said creature? Would the Moon Beast have to use Perception checks? How would the Moon Beast successfully locate a visible, audible, creature that is outside of its Blind Sight range?

Grand Lodge

The real issue lies in the "Perception" and senses of beings in the rules. Perception is the conglomeration of all the senses a being possesses, from vision with eyesight which see light waves, sound produced by sound waves (ears), vibrations on skin, presence of spirit, energy, whatever the case may be for the being.

That's why invisibility doesn't effect just vision- it gives a bonus to Stealth generally- it doesn't say it gives a bonus to "being seen with organs that detect light." Perception is all senses; some creatures have more senses than normal humans.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Samy wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
I've not been to Italy. In fact, I've never been out of the USA, and have only left the west coast for Gen Con.

Are you interested in traveling in general?

If you are, what are the top three places outside the US that you would like to visit someday?

I know that Erik Mona was a guest of honor at an RPG convention here in Finland in 2011. Do Paizo guys travel abroad to cons a lot or was that a rare incident?

I am in theory interested in traveling. The top three places would be Japan, Antarctica, and Scotland.

Some Paizo employees do a lot of traveling. I would prefer to not do that; if I do travel, I want it to be for me, not my job.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

nogoodscallywag wrote:

A skeleton has only bones. It has no eyes or other sensory organs. It has Darkvision 60ft.

Does that mean if the skeleton is in broad daylight on a flat plain, the skeleton cannot see at all, even in inch in front of it?

How about a Moon Beast with Blindsight 90ft. If it is on the same flat plain, can it only see everything within 90ft? Meaning everything beyond 90ft is blurred or dimmed or simply non-percievable?

If so, it would seem that the same holds for the skeleton above, then. Trying to figure out if we've been doing undead wrong who have to physical eyes to see and who do not have any other "visions."

In Vision and Light, it says, "In an area of bright light, all characters can see clearly." But the word "see" can't possibly be applied to all creatures, unless "see" equals "perceive." Like perception encompasses all senses, not just vision.

The Moon Beast (below) does, however, have Telepathy 300ft. Does this give him the ability to know *where* a being is within 300ft, or merely that a being is within 300ft?

** spoiler omitted **...

Unless a monster has "blindness" or some similar quality, you can assume it sees fine in normal light. Even if it doesn't have "eyes" like you and I.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Pauper Princess wrote:
My question would be this... having Blind Sight, does the Moon Beast perceive normally beyond the 90ft? If a creature is located 95ft away, does the Moon Beast still perceive and locate said creature? Would the Moon Beast have to use Perception checks? How would the Moon Beast successfully locate a visible, audible, creature that is outside of its Blind Sight range?

Yes, it sees normally beyond the 90 feet. Again, unless the text says specifically that it can't, it can.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

nogoodscallywag wrote:

The real issue lies in the "Perception" and senses of beings in the rules. Perception is the conglomeration of all the senses a being possesses, from vision with eyesight which see light waves, sound produced by sound waves (ears), vibrations on skin, presence of spirit, energy, whatever the case may be for the being.

That's why invisibility doesn't effect just vision- it gives a bonus to Stealth generally- it doesn't say it gives a bonus to "being seen with organs that detect light." Perception is all senses; some creatures have more senses than normal humans.

Not seeing a question here.

Please keep your posts to questions for me.

Dark Archive

So uh, my players are interested in crashing on Nualia's ceremony when every intelligent being(+ Erylium) is in one room :'D Maybe they will by next session figure out "Yeaaah, maybe its better idea to just sneak around the place", but... In case they don't, what is the most logical day in the week for ceremony to take place in? Like, is there any particular day Lamashtans would prefer to use as their ceremony day? Asking it so that I know how many days they have time to prepare. Ah well, at least I'm running game for six players and having Shalelu and Tup temporarily join them up, so maybe they will do okay :'D Should at least be epic match.

Oh, another thing: If they do that, will Yeth Hounds avoid howling in order to not send all 23(Ripnugget included) goblins in panic?

Dark Archive

James, should we pass the collection plate?

Dark Archive

James Jacobs wrote:
I am in theory interested in traveling. The top three places would be Japan, Antarctica, and Scotland.

I strongly advise Japan and to a lesser degree Scotland, James.

Japan will cost a pretty Platinum piece though. Knowing locals always helps. If you don't, pick up Lonely Planet guides a few weeks before going.

Dark Archive

How goes the Temple of Elemental Evil campaign?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

So I just found out there is an anime/light novel series called Nyaruko: Crawling with Love, from Japan, about a boy who, it seems, forms a harem out of Lovecraftian creatures taking the form of girls. Quick speed read of the premise has him gaining the affection of Nyaruko (Nyarlathotep), Chtugha (Cthulhu), and Hastur (a male love interest).

Your thoughts? Worst nightmare? Abomination? Kill it with fire?

Grand Lodge

James Jacobs wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Is it OK to send you a PM instead of posting here when there's a valid reason for keeping things off the public record?
It's always OK to send me a PM!

This is why I love Paizo.

Anyway, will the Cinderlands section of Crimson Throne play out any differently in the hardcover? It's a fun adventure as written, but it wasn't everyone's cup of tea.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

What special weapon materials (specifically metals, for obvious reasons) can be "pattern forged" or made like a "Damascus sword?"

If my understanding is correct, it'd be impossible to produce a sword like this out of cold iron, given that cold iron gains its mystical qualities (and name) from being forged at a lower temperature than normal, which is in direct contrast to the methods used to forge wootz steel, which requires the forge to be extremely hot. Can alchemical silver swords be made this way, or are those more like a steel sword with a silver-plated blade?

I've always wanted to play a character who uses a sword like this, but my concern has always been that such a weapon would need to be made of plain old steel, while at higher levels you NEED cold iron or alchemical silver weapons to penetrate the damage reduction of things like Devils or Demons.


Pathfinder Companion, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

1) What kind of names do dark folk have? I'm idly thinking central or eastern Europe, but they were descended from the Azlant, so not sure what ethnicity (if any) is the best to mine for name ideas.

2) Have you decided whether or not reptoids are on Golarion, up to something? Or do you think they're too silly?

3) What would you do if you found someone, were getting along well with them, and you discovered that they were secretly a veiled master the entire time?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Do you ever get so invested in a character in a story or series of stories so much you almost don't want to keep reading because you can just tell something bad is going to happen to them?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Are there any plans to expand the information on the different demigod level entities (daimyo, immortals, rana, etc) at any point in the near (say 1-3 years) future? Far future? Just the names are fairly evocative, and no doubt intended to leave customers hungry for more...just wanted to say, I'm starvin'!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

CorvusMask wrote:

So uh, my players are interested in crashing on Nualia's ceremony when every intelligent being(+ Erylium) is in one room :'D Maybe they will by next session figure out "Yeaaah, maybe its better idea to just sneak around the place", but... In case they don't, what is the most logical day in the week for ceremony to take place in? Like, is there any particular day Lamashtans would prefer to use as their ceremony day? Asking it so that I know how many days they have time to prepare. Ah well, at least I'm running game for six players and having Shalelu and Tup temporarily join them up, so maybe they will do okay :'D Should at least be epic match.

Oh, another thing: If they do that, will Yeth Hounds avoid howling in order to not send all 23(Ripnugget included) goblins in panic?

The next "logical" day is left to you to decide as best fits the evolving story unfolding in your game.

And I suspect that the yeth hound howls happen all day long on and off, and so you can assume that by any point the PCs show up, the rest of the folks they'll be fighting have already been affected in the past 24 hours and are thus immune to further bay effects from the hounds.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Maneuvermoose wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

Not seeing a question here.

Please keep your posts to questions for me.

What is a question? How do you know when you have seen a question? Why are questions overpowered? Why aren't questions overpowered? Is this sentence a question? Are you going to make posts that aren't questions for yourself? Are you going to make posts that are questions for yourself? Why is everyone asking so many questions? Are we still in character? Will you answer my question if I answer yours? Why is nobody answering anyone's questions? Was that enough questions? Was that too many questions? Would doves cry?

Kinda missing the point. And kinda obnoxious.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

baron arem heshvaun wrote:
James, should we pass the collection plate?

Nah; I have faith it'll be made available to read/purchase at an affordable price sometime soon.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

baron arem heshvaun wrote:
How goes the Temple of Elemental Evil campaign?

Still going; they just headed downstairs to level 4 at the very end of the last session. Next game is on next Wednesday.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Tels wrote:

So I just found out there is an anime/light novel series called Nyaruko: Crawling with Love, from Japan, about a boy who, it seems, forms a harem out of Lovecraftian creatures taking the form of girls. Quick speed read of the premise has him gaining the affection of Nyaruko (Nyarlathotep), Chtugha (Cthulhu), and Hastur (a male love interest).

Your thoughts? Worst nightmare? Abomination? Kill it with fire?

Wary.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Oncoming_Storm wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Is it OK to send you a PM instead of posting here when there's a valid reason for keeping things off the public record?
It's always OK to send me a PM!

This is why I love Paizo.

Anyway, will the Cinderlands section of Crimson Throne play out any differently in the hardcover? It's a fun adventure as written, but it wasn't everyone's cup of tea.

I reorganized the Cinderlands chapter to...

Spoiler:
1) Play out as a sandbox; you can do the various missions in any order, and don't have to do them all to earn the Shoantis' respect.

2) Removed the "Shoanti are about to go to war" plot because it was unnecessary in complexity, never got followed up, and was unrealistic.

3) Redrew the map for the Moon Ruin to something more interesting and added a map for the Cindermaw fight.

4) Made lots of little adjustments here and there.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

What special weapon materials (specifically metals, for obvious reasons) can be "pattern forged" or made like a "Damascus sword?"

If my understanding is correct, it'd be impossible to produce a sword like this out of cold iron, given that cold iron gains its mystical qualities (and name) from being forged at a lower temperature than normal, which is in direct contrast to the methods used to forge wootz steel, which requires the forge to be extremely hot. Can alchemical silver swords be made this way, or are those more like a steel sword with a silver-plated blade?

I've always wanted to play a character who uses a sword like this, but my concern has always been that such a weapon would need to be made of plain old steel, while at higher levels you NEED cold iron or alchemical silver weapons to penetrate the damage reduction of things like Devils or Demons.

"Pattern Forged" has no game meaning, unless you just take it to mean "masterwork quality." In which case, any material can be used for this. Or more to the point, any material the GM wants to include can be pattern forged.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Luthorne wrote:

1) What kind of names do dark folk have? I'm idly thinking central or eastern Europe, but they were descended from the Azlant, so not sure what ethnicity (if any) is the best to mine for name ideas.

2) Have you decided whether or not reptoids are on Golarion, up to something? Or do you think they're too silly?

3) What would you do if you found someone, were getting along well with them, and you discovered that they were secretly a veiled master the entire time?

1) Dark folk naming conventions haven't really been explored. When I name them, I generally name them made-up words that sound vaguely creepy and shadowy. They aren't really based on any real-world culture, and assigning them to a real world culture is kinda sketchy so we don't do that anyway.

2) Reptoids are aliens. There are some on Golarion, but not a lot. They're certainly up to something, but who knows at this point what that something might be?

3) In real life? I'd be equal parts horrified and excited (Horrified because duh, and excited because that means all sorts of magic is real)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Squeakmaan wrote:
Do you ever get so invested in a character in a story or series of stories so much you almost don't want to keep reading because you can just tell something bad is going to happen to them?

Nope.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Kain Darkwind wrote:
Are there any plans to expand the information on the different demigod level entities (daimyo, immortals, rana, etc) at any point in the near (say 1-3 years) future? Far future? Just the names are fairly evocative, and no doubt intended to leave customers hungry for more...just wanted to say, I'm starvin'!

No immediate plans, but long term plans? Yes. ANYTHING we put in print is something we likely have long term plans for. But since we generally don't say much at all about our actual plans more than 6 months out into the future, well... I guess you'll have to wait and see.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

What's your opinion on a Skum vs Deep One Hybrid scenario?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
What's your opinion on a Skum vs Deep One Hybrid scenario?

Meh.

Those are more interesting to me the less they overlap in game. They're so similar that I kind of prefer having only one in any one setting, and these days? I prefer deep ones over skum, if only because the deep ones have several decades of seniority.


Mr. James Jacobs,

A couple of things. As far as the Deeps Ones go, why do they want to breed with humans? Do they favor female victims over male?

Also, are you aware that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles had an episode with Cthulhu elements?


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Does Golarion have anything like the guild structure of earth's middle ages, or are the crafts and professions not organized?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

The NPC wrote:

Mr. James Jacobs,

A couple of things. As far as the Deeps Ones go, why do they want to breed with humans? Do they favor female victims over male?

Also, are you aware that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles had an episode with Cthulhu elements?

Deep ones work the same way as they do in Lovecraft, and that does indeed mean breeding with humans and thus favoring female victims over male. Just how much of that particularly horrifying element you want to include in your game is up to you.

I wasn't aware of TMNT and Cthulhu, but I was never really into Cthulhu.


Can deep ones breed with other humanoids, like elves?


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I wonder if this is James Jacobs character for Iron Gods.

Here is the awesome pic (T-Rex with guns shooting bugs.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
I wasn't aware of TMNT and Cthulhu, but I was never really into Cthulhu.

O.O

Dark Archive

Pretty much everything has "tentacle monsters from other dimension" thing nowadays(so saying TMNT has had episode with Cthulhu elements doesn't really mean anything), but what is impressive that the old Ghostbusters cartoon had actual Cthulhu in it and references to Lovecraft : D

Have you seen/heard of that Ghostbusters cartoon episode?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
I wasn't aware of TMNT and Cthulhu, but I was never really into Cthulhu.
O.O

I think it's safe to assume that Mr. Jacobs meant "... I was never really into TMNT."

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Haladir wrote:
Rysky wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
I wasn't aware of TMNT and Cthulhu, but I was never really into Cthulhu.
O.O
I think it's safe to assume that Mr. Jacobs meant "... I was never really into TMNT."

Kinda figured.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Can deep ones breed with other humanoids, like elves?

No. Just humans.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Oliver Veyrac wrote:

I wonder if this is James Jacobs character for Iron Gods.

Here is the awesome pic (T-Rex with guns shooting bugs.

Needs moar gunz!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Rysky wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
I wasn't aware of TMNT and Cthulhu, but I was never really into Cthulhu.
O.O

Typo. I was never really into TMNT.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

CorvusMask wrote:

Pretty much everything has "tentacle monsters from other dimension" thing nowadays(so saying TMNT has had episode with Cthulhu elements doesn't really mean anything), but what is impressive that the old Ghostbusters cartoon had actual Cthulhu in it and references to Lovecraft : D

Have you seen/heard of that Ghostbusters cartoon episode?

I've heard of it and seen bits of it but not the whole episode.


Did you hear about Prometheus 2 is now being changed to Alien Covenant and Shaw's character is being written out of the movie? How do you feel about this?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Dragon78 wrote:
Did you hear about Prometheus 2 is now being changed to Alien Covenant and Shaw's character is being written out of the movie? How do you feel about this?

I have heard that. It's WAY too early to jump to conclusions, so for now I'm cautiously optimistic.


Alright. My group has been having a huge disagreement about something. When a druid wildshapes into an earth elemental, it doesn't get a burrow speed, so how fast is it able to move while earth gliding? Or do they get the burrow speed of the earth elemental that they turn into?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

AramilNuren wrote:

Alright. My group has been having a huge disagreement about something. When a druid wildshapes into an earth elemental, it doesn't get a burrow speed, so how fast is it able to move while earth gliding? Or do they get the burrow speed of the earth elemental that they turn into?

I'm not comfortable issuing solutions for groups in this way. Your GM needs to be the one to make the decision, and your players need to respect your GM's decision. What works best for your table won't be the best choice for anyone else's table.

That said, my ruling at my table would be that the druid gains the burrow speed of the elemental they turn into. Whether or not that works at your table, I have no idea.

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