Desert Druid Wild Shape Poison / Web DC


Rules Questions


At level 6, the Desert Druid gets to shapeshift into a vermin (in my player's case, he chose spider as his default go-to shape) as if he were a 4th level Druid with the exception that, when determining special abilities, he gets to use it as if it were Beast Shape IV. This gets him the Web and Poison abilities.

Reading up on Transmutation, I find that any special abilities gained from this sort of shapeshifting have a DC equal to if the transmutation spell itself had a DC to avoid. As it stands, this makes the poison and web saves equal to 19 (10 + 6 spell level + 3 wisdom modifier). Is this right? Neither of the two entries in the core rulebook regarding Supernatural Abilities say to alter this DC to base it on caster level or anything like that.

I don't really have much of a problem with the DC, I don't see it as an issue considering the caster is giving up Large Size and, with it, buckets of damage to get them. I just want to make sure I'm not screwing something up here.

Note... if my player took spell focus: transmutation, would the DCs of his shifting abilities increase by +1? Again, I don't really see much of a problem with that... just wanted to check.


its not a problem in fact if you don't allow the DC to scale it will become worthless before too many levels pass. and you player will wonder why he even bothered


Phasics wrote:

its not a problem in fact if you don't allow the DC to scale it will become worthless before too many levels pass. and you player will wonder why he even bothered

Well, I wouldn't ever think it would be a SET DC. That would be dumb. I was thinking it might use the players stats and hit dice to set the DC as off he were a creature of that type. For example, poison uses the monster's con score, so then it'd use the PC's instead. However, I think my original post regarding the guidelines set in the general rules for transmutation are the correct adjudication. Since I had to arrive at this conclusion by referencing 4 or 5 different citations, I thought it was necessary to get a thumbs up or two.


Oh, he doesn't get it til level 10. The question still stands.


I wouldn't use Spell Focus to enhance Wild Shape since it's more like a SLA rather than casting spells. But there are feats that increase SLA.
- Boost SLA (BoVD): increases DC by +2 three times per day
- Consecrate (BoED) or Corrupt (BoVD) SLA: adds good/evil descriptor to a SLA
- Heighten SLA (CArc): increases the SLA's spell level (including DC, etc.)
- Purify/Violate SLA (BoED): adds good/evil descriptor, do less damage against good/evil opponents, enhance dice sizes against evil/good
- Quicken SLA (BoVD, MM): as the name suggests
- SLA Focus (RoF): DC +2

There are more (most notably Empower and Maximize SLA). Those are those I thought were most related to your question.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I guess I don't know the raw answer to your question but usualy SLA for saves use 10+1/2CL+mod for an equation. So I would make it a save for 16.


It is 10+spell level(SLA's have spell levels) + CHA).

If it is a special or supernatural ability it is 10+1/2 HD+(Con or cha mod)

Con is usually used for things like poison that are physical, and Cha is usually used for mental affects.

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