Who Prefers Sorcerers To Wizards?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Dork Lord wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:
Dork Lord wrote:
Dragonborn3 wrote:

Lillith...

I'm with you on this! Why should the people who have to bend their minds to magic be the best? I want to the Sorcerers in power, not their book savant cousins!

They are magic, so why in the 9 Hells and the Infinite Layers of the Abyss are they *(&^#$% unable to use metamagic better than a wizard!?

Because patience, dedication and hard work are rewarded more than the "free magic" a Sorc gets. :-p
That's a nice little Protestant work ethic fairy tale. In reality, it doesn't matter what you know, but who you know.

*LMAO*

Wizards are just better, smarter and better looking... well ok, not better looking. But better. Just ask any Wizard.

BRAINS BEATS CLEAVAGE! ;-)

Not from what I've observed. I mean, I'm a gay geek, but I've witnessed many brainy straight guys melt into putty in the presence of cleavage.


That's just due to lack of exposure. I spent my college years working as a bouncer in a strip club. It's amazing how quickly even magnificent cleavage fades into the background.


Quote wrote:


BRAINS BEATS CLEAVAGE! ;-)

Meh, I've seen better on a succubus.


Dork Lord wrote:

My PC Wizards love Sorcerers... in the same way you might love your mentally challenged third cousin. :-p

*Pats the Sorc on the head*

"Yes, I know... magic is a part of you. Indeed, it positively flows from your every pore like an open wound. How are those metagmagic feats working out for you? Ah, I see. I'm sorry. Not everyone can be blessed with the power and versatility of a god. At least you're pretty. That's got to count for something, right? Right"?

Disclaimer: These are in-character words, not OOC ones... so if you're going to take offense, do it in character as well. ;-)

I have no idea why, but I -love- playing Wizards with that attitude.

"Oh, ignore him your lordship. My older brother's always been a bit arrogant. I think he's secretly jeoulous. Did you know, he's over 40 years old and still a virgin? I mean, I don't think he knows how to relate to anything that's not a book. Well, he does have that pet rat. He claims he can talk to it and that it's smart. I think he calls it "Willard". I try not to think about what the both of them do together when they are alone. I feel kinda sorry for him. He's really smart. He backed me into a corner the other day ranting and raving about the specific gravity of phlogiston - whatever that is. But he's been wearing that torn Star Trek outfit for a week. I don't know what that stain is. Again, don't want to know. Give him no mind. Thinking he's smarter than everyone else is probably the only fun he ever has. Still, it takes him an hour to prepare a spell with a metamagic feat, I can do it off the top of my head. Oh, did I tell you? He actually forgets his spells everyday. I'm not bothered by him. Now, turn the light off. I have some international politics to discuss with you.


LilithsThrall wrote:
Dork Lord wrote:

My PC Wizards love Sorcerers... in the same way you might love your mentally challenged third cousin. :-p

*Pats the Sorc on the head*

"Yes, I know... magic is a part of you. Indeed, it positively flows from your every pore like an open wound. How are those metagmagic feats working out for you? Ah, I see. I'm sorry. Not everyone can be blessed with the power and versatility of a god. At least you're pretty. That's got to count for something, right? Right"?

Disclaimer: These are in-character words, not OOC ones... so if you're going to take offense, do it in character as well. ;-)

I have no idea why, but I -love- playing Wizards with that attitude.

"Oh, ignore him your lordship. My older brother's always been a bit arrogant. I think he's secretly jeoulous. Did you know, he's over 40 years old and still a virgin? I mean, I don't think he knows how to relate to anything that's not a book. Well, he does have that pet rat. He claims he can talk to it and that it's smart. I think he calls it "Willard". I try not to think about what the both of them do together when they are alone. I feel kinda sorry for him. He's really smart. He backed me into a corner the other day ranting and raving about the specific gravity of phlogiston - whatever that is. But he's been wearing that torn Star Trek outfit for a week. I don't know what that stain is. Again, don't want to know. Give him no mind. Thinking he's smarter than everyone else is probably the only fun he ever has. Still, it takes him an hour to prepare a spell with a metamagic feat, I can do it off the top of my head. Oh, did I tell you? He actually forgets his spells everyday. I'm not bothered by him. Now, turn the light off. I have some international politics to discuss with you.

*L*

Touche.


"To My Lordship,

As per our discussion (Re: "The Smart One" and "The Pretty One"), I led them to several minor hideouts of your enemies. As you predicted, their inclination to prove which was the better arcane practitioner encouraged them to use their magic at every available opportunity.

Once they both began to complain of "needing to rest for a few hours," I immediately beat both of them to death with my "big, pointy stick." LOL.

Regards,

The Fighter."


Dork Lord wrote:
BRAINS BEATS CLEAVAGE! ;-)

The combination is where it starts getting interesting...


I personally would choose sorcerer over wizard, but only for my personal RP reasons. I prefer not to play bookish types, but I have seen some of my friends play very compelling wizards. I read X-Men a lot when I was younger, so I have a soft spot for the whole "confused youth develops powers and feels like an outcast" shtick, and that seems to come more from the sorcerer side.
Mechanically, I think wizards really do take the cake in higher level play. This is only my personal experience.

Liberty's Edge

In 3.5 I played wizards over sorcerers (when I got to play at all) because sorcerers were so bland. In pathfinder, now that sorcs. actually get class features I prefer sorcerers, mainly because I'd rather play a character with style and charisma rather than a wizard with bad hygiene. (Ie. I prefer bluff and UMD vs. knowledge skills.)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I prefer playing wizards to sorcerers, despite wizards being weaker.
And I still don't like bloodlines.


Malaclypse wrote:
Dork Lord wrote:
BRAINS BEATS CLEAVAGE! ;-)
The combination is where it starts getting interesting...

Exactly right, dah-ling. The two needn't be mutually exclusive.

*smiles*


I prefer wizards to sorcerers. I dislike builds that have to choose somewhere and can't take it back (spell choice). Therefor, I LOVE the the new rules with prohibited rules.

I'm not sure which class is better. I once played a sorcerer, and I was very disappointed, but I wasn't very experienced while building him and the campaign was crappy towards mages.


SanguineRooster wrote:

I personally would choose sorcerer over wizard, but only for my personal RP reasons. I prefer not to play bookish types, but I have seen some of my friends play very compelling wizards. I read X-Men a lot when I was younger, so I have a soft spot for the whole "confused youth develops powers and feels like an outcast" shtick, and that seems to come more from the sorcerer side.

Mechanically, I think wizards really do take the cake in higher level play. This is only my personal experience.

I HATE X-man style Sorcerers.

Take a look at a book called "Necroscope" (by Brian Lumley) for a good Wizard vs. Sorcerer story.


I prefer wizards personally...I like alchemists now as well.


Ask again later

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Magic 8-Ball wrote:
Ask again later

Aha! You are a divination focused sorcerer! This explains why you only answer so many questions a day.


Mynameisjake wrote:

"To My Lordship,

As per our discussion (Re: "The Smart One" and "The Pretty One"), I led them to several minor hideouts of your enemies. As you predicted, their inclination to prove which was the better arcane practitioner encouraged them to use their magic at every available opportunity.

Once they both began to complain of "needing to rest for a few hours," I immediately beat both of them to death with my "big, pointy stick." LOL.

Regards,

The Fighter."

Thank you very much boy. That letter will work beautifully. To think that I would be running out of useful spells as quickly as my oh so "smart" brother! I've bluffed devils. It's child's play to bluff a sword swinging merc. And, let's face it, you're not exactly known for your strong will. Charming you was child's play, too. It's a shame your mind is so soft when your body is so..

Oh well, go fetch me some grapes, thrall - and make arrangements for my poor brother's funeral. I simply must have new clothes for the occasion.


I like sorcerers primarily because they aren't as powerful as wizards.

In before more Lilith's Thrall.


LilithsThrall wrote:
Mynameisjake wrote:

"To My Lordship,

As per our discussion (Re: "The Smart One" and "The Pretty One"), I led them to several minor hideouts of your enemies. As you predicted, their inclination to prove which was the better arcane practitioner encouraged them to use their magic at every available opportunity.

Once they both began to complain of "needing to rest for a few hours," I immediately beat both of them to death with my "big, pointy stick." LOL.

Regards,

The Fighter."

Thank you very much boy. That letter will work beautifully. To think that I would be running out of useful spells as quickly as my oh so "smart" brother! I've bluffed devils. It's child's play to bluff a sword swinging merc. And, let's face it, you're not exactly known for your strong will. Charming you was child's play, too. It's a shame your mind is so soft when your body is so..

Oh well, go fetch me some grapes, thrall - and make arrangements for my poor brother's funeral. I simply must have new clothes for the occasion.

Brother dear, there really is this great spell you must learn someday... well you know if you could. Anyways the key part of it is where I'm no where near as dead as the illusion the fighter killed. Of course if your limited spell knowledge had included more ways of detecting such things you would have known how you were wasting your time, but all is well that ends well.


"To My Lordship,

I know that we agreed upon a price in advance, but I'm afraid I must invoke the "extraordinary expenses" clause of our contract. The spirits of these damned mages just won't leave me alone! They're both too arrogant to admit that they're dead! "I'm too pretty to be dead." "I'm too smart to be dead." "I charmed you!" "It was an illusion!" By the Gods! It's like being a child and playing "Elves and Orcs" with that annoying kid in the village who'll never admit that you got him.

Lest you think that I'm simply attempting to line my coin pouch at you expense, please remit the additional funds to the nearest Church of Iomedae so that I might arrange for an exorcism.

Yours truly,

The (Iron Willed) Fighter"


LilithsThrall wrote:
SanguineRooster wrote:

I personally would choose sorcerer over wizard, but only for my personal RP reasons. I prefer not to play bookish types, but I have seen some of my friends play very compelling wizards. I read X-Men a lot when I was younger, so I have a soft spot for the whole "confused youth develops powers and feels like an outcast" shtick, and that seems to come more from the sorcerer side.

Mechanically, I think wizards really do take the cake in higher level play. This is only my personal experience.

I HATE X-man style Sorcerers.

Take a look at a book called "Necroscope" (by Brian Lumley) for a good Wizard vs. Sorcerer story.

Adds another book to the "to-do" list.


Abraham spalding wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:
Mynameisjake wrote:

"To My Lordship,

As per our discussion (Re: "The Smart One" and "The Pretty One"), I led them to several minor hideouts of your enemies. As you predicted, their inclination to prove which was the better arcane practitioner encouraged them to use their magic at every available opportunity.

Once they both began to complain of "needing to rest for a few hours," I immediately beat both of them to death with my "big, pointy stick." LOL.

Regards,

The Fighter."

Thank you very much boy. That letter will work beautifully. To think that I would be running out of useful spells as quickly as my oh so "smart" brother! I've bluffed devils. It's child's play to bluff a sword swinging merc. And, let's face it, you're not exactly known for your strong will. Charming you was child's play, too. It's a shame your mind is so soft when your body is so..

Oh well, go fetch me some grapes, thrall - and make arrangements for my poor brother's funeral. I simply must have new clothes for the occasion.
Brother dear, there really is this great spell you must learn someday... well you know if you could. Anyways the key part of it is where I'm no where near as dead as the illusion the fighter killed. Of course if your limited spell knowledge had included more ways of detecting such things you would have known how you were wasting your time, but all is well that ends well.

It has accurately been said "never assume a wizard is dead until you've personally seen him die a minimum of three times". Man-slave, offer him one of your grapes. My brother is so smart. Man-slave, lay your sword against his neck. You, however, are not my brother. See, the instant you would have tried to cast an illusion, this charming piece of man flesh would have killed you - unless you had cast it outside his presence. Then, you would have had to maintain concentration on it for an unrealistic amount of time. You see, manipulating people through illusions and charms is a bit of a specialty of mine. And, so, you could not have suurvived the way you claim to, ergo, you are not my brother. And, let me add, it offends me that you would seek to exploit my grief over my brother in order to have me drop my guard. Man-slave, kill him.

And, man-slave, stop daydreaming. Even if you were specially trained to resist mental attack, you're mind would still be way too soft to resist me.

NOTE: A 5th level fighter with Iron Will has a +3 to make will saves, not including his Wisdom score which is likely to be low. The fighter is likely to make either Str or Dex or Con prime and secondary stats.
A Sorcerer will make Cha his highest stat. Assuming that's an 18, he has a +5 (+4 for the stat, +1 for the spell level of Charm Person) to set the DC. All my Sorcerers specialize in illusions, charms, and planar binding, so he'd get the bonus from spell focus, but if I add that, it might cause a dispute, so I'll leave that off. I'm also leaving off magic item bonuses for both sides.

Dark Archive

I just want to throw in, that I'm actually enjoying this "in-character" back and forth you three are having..

Liberty's Edge

If you use "Charm Person", then calling the target 'Man-slave' will probably give you a hefty, hefty penalty on your subsequent charisma check. Unless, yanno, he's into that sort of thing. And it seems this one isn't.

At least, it would if *I* were your DM.


Lyrax wrote:

If you use "Charm Person", then calling the target 'Man-slave' will probably give you a hefty, hefty penalty on your subsequent charisma check. Unless, yanno, he's into that sort of thing. And it seems this one isn't.

At least, it would if *I* were your DM.

Yeah, but it's too much fun to not do it. The point I'm making, though, is that the Sorcerer has the Charisma to likely make that roll.


LilithsThrall wrote:
Abraham spalding wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:
Mynameisjake wrote:

"To My Lordship,

As per our discussion (Re: "The Smart One" and "The Pretty One"), I led them to several minor hideouts of your enemies. As you predicted, their inclination to prove which was the better arcane practitioner encouraged them to use their magic at every available opportunity.

Once they both began to complain of "needing to rest for a few hours," I immediately beat both of them to death with my "big, pointy stick." LOL.

Regards,

The Fighter."

Thank you very much boy. That letter will work beautifully. To think that I would be running out of useful spells as quickly as my oh so "smart" brother! I've bluffed devils. It's child's play to bluff a sword swinging merc. And, let's face it, you're not exactly known for your strong will. Charming you was child's play, too. It's a shame your mind is so soft when your body is so..

Oh well, go fetch me some grapes, thrall - and make arrangements for my poor brother's funeral. I simply must have new clothes for the occasion.
Brother dear, there really is this great spell you must learn someday... well you know if you could. Anyways the key part of it is where I'm no where near as dead as the illusion the fighter killed. Of course if your limited spell knowledge had included more ways of detecting such things you would have known how you were wasting your time, but all is well that ends well.
It has accurately been said "never assume a wizard is dead until you've personally seen him die a minimum of three times". Man-slave, offer him one of your grapes. My brother is so smart. Man-slave, lay your sword against his neck. You, however, are not my brother. See, the instant you would have tried to cast an illusion, this charming piece of man flesh would have killed you - unless you had cast it outside his presence. Then, you would have had to maintain concentration on it for an unrealistic amount of time. You see, manipulating...

Your assumption of low Wisdom score is based on the further assumption that the character was created with point buy, and the still further assumption that they are optimizing for combat. And, you know what they say about assumptions...

Meanwhile:

"Hey, Your Nibs,

I couldn't believe my luck when I cam across these three blokes having a pissing contest about who was smarter, prettier or some such. Anyway, while they were distracted trying to murder each other, I took their stuff, slept with their wives and mistresses, and poisoned their food supply so they won't chase after me. I could have snuck up on them and stabbed them in the back, too, but why bother?

Your Friend,

The Rogue


No, my assumption was that we were using equal powered characters and that they optimized to the class' strengths. If you toss that assumption out the window, this shared story is not only vacuous, it ceases to be fun and actually will likely become bitterly argumentative (akin to a bunch of kids playing cowboys and Indians and arguing over who shot who). The whole point of this story is to be entertaining, not arguementative.
As for poisoning us, what poison can a fifth level character afford which kills?


Delay Poison anyone?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
FiddlersGreen wrote:


Sorcerers are essentially pigeonholed into being humans now, so we might as well compare them against wizards on that basis.

That's mainly for those who insist on aping wizards. With the right focus that doesn't require an encyclopedia of spells, demi-human casters can come into thier own. Increased uses of special abilities and bloodline powers can be a potent addition. This doesn't apply to all races, but then if you're playing a Dwarf Sorcerer, optimisation was not your goal anyway.

The other thing to remember is that the Human Bonus does nothing more than give you extra known cantrips for your first 3 levels. assuming you apply it that way. Quite frankly, I'd probably put at least 1 or 2 of those points into skills.

Shadow Lodge

Jason Beardsley wrote:
I just want to throw in, that I'm actually enjoying this "in-character" back and forth you three are having..

Someone make a thread...


LilithsThrall wrote:

(akin to a bunch of kids playing cowboys and Indians and arguing over who shot who).

LOL. It already was that, but it's still fun, IMHO.


Dragonborn3 wrote:
Jason Beardsley wrote:
I just want to throw in, that I'm actually enjoying this "in-character" back and forth you three are having..
Someone make a thread...

I already did. :-p

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/general/sorcerersVsWizardsFromAnInCharacterPerspective&page=1&so urce=search#0

The Exchange

LilithsThrall wrote:
So, is a Sorcerer stronger than a Wizard or vice versa? The answer is "cheese".

Word.

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