One consistent battle of concepts I see on these threads is complexity. You have people who find CoC fun (if deadly) due to simplicity, and those who like d20 when it is at it's most complex.
Personally, I like simplicity and complexity, it just depends on the feel I want and what I want to run or play in. I love simple systems for one off games or quick campaigns of 3-4 games, adn complex ones when my players are all experienced and we have one or two days of game time for just character creation.
What I am now trying to build is a little of both. Inspired by Gurps Lite which is only 32 pages and is enough to make a simple, genric starting character, I decided to make a D20 Lite which will have simpler rules and character creation than standard d20 (by standard, I mean Pathfinder since I don't do 4e, and Wizards no longer supports modern or SW-Saga)
My initial ideas are these;
Two classes: One combat heavy, One skill and special ability heavy.
The Combatant would have d8 HD, 2+Int skills, Good Fort save, and 1-20 BAB (but no itinerant attacks due to high BAB).
The Genius would have d8 HD, 6+Int skills, Good Ref&Will saves,
and 0-15 BAB (again no itinerant attacks for high BAB)
There would be 20 skills and they could choose from any of them or even roll a d20 to randomly select them.
There would be "bonus feats" that are tied to each class (as fighter feats are now) and each class gets a BF at 1st, and every even class level.
There would also be 10 generic feats either class can use.
No feats for Character level--just class levels.
+1 to a single attribute every odd character level.
Rules:
No attacks of opportunity.
Simplified manuevers (though the CMB/CMD system is a keeper)
Simplified cover/concealment
Generic weapons---example would be that all melee weapon damage is by size: tiny=1d3, small=1d4, medium=1d6, large=1d8, huge=1d12.
Crits require no confirmation, but there are no expanded threat range weapons, all weapons do 2x rolled damage on a crit.
This is my start: I want input!
Have you looked at Micro20? There was another streamlined d20 variant that I can not find now. Not to mention all the lovely free games found here.
Have you looked at Micro20? There was another streamlined d20 variant that I can not find now. Not to mention all the lovely free games found here.
Is True20 that other variant? I have been looking into it myself and it does a lot of what sir OP is trying to do (it has 3 generic classes with simplified class abilities and feat acquisition). It does not streamline combat as much as I hoped it would though.
Knight: I like the lack of crit confirmation. Waste of natural 20s otherwise :)
Is True20 that other variant?
Nope. Found it this weekend; Perfect20.
Here is another idea to use with it: self-stacking feats.
This gives you 12 feats (including two that were once class features) that instead of having "improved" or "greater" versions simply stack with themselves which reduces how big the feat list should be.
Tell me what you think
Finesse Chose a melee weapon you are proficient with (this can include unarmed strikes and claw attacks but not grab/grappling). You can use your Dex bonus instead of your Str bonus for your melee attack roll. Also, if you had a negative Str modifier (such as –1 for having a Str 8), you no longer apply the penalty to damage rolls. You can take this multiple times. Each additional time you do +2 damage with the weapon you chose.
Power Cleave Str 13+ You can subtract up to –4 from your attack roll to add an equal amount your damage on an attack.
If you drop your opponent to zero or less hit points, or drop him to unconsciousness on the Condition Track, then you immediately get a single melee attack action as a free action against an adjacent square.
You may take this feat multiple times, each additional time you can subtract up to –2 more from your attack roll to add an equal amount your damage on an attack. Also for each additional time you gain one more melee attack when you drop someone to zero HP or unconscious. For example, if you took this feat 3 times, you could subtract up to –9 more from your attack roll to add 9 to your damage on an attack, and if you drop someone to zero HP or unconscious, you can make up to 3 free attacks against target(s) adjacent square(s).
Deadly Charge Str 13+,
BAB +1 You get +2 to your attack roll and +1d6 damage on a charge once per day. You may take this feat multiple times, each additional time gaining one additional time per day to a maximum of 3/day
Smite Cha 13+,
Wis 13+ You can choose one target that seems to symbolize everything your alighnment is oppossed to. You add your Cha bonus to the attack roll and your Wis bonus to the damage roll against that opponent for the next 10 rounds. If the target is defeated you may switch your smite to another target.
You may take this feat multiple times. Each additional time you add +2 to damage vs. your smite target.
Point Blank Shot Dex 13+ You no longer provoke an attack of opportunity firing a ranged weapon into an adjacent square.
You also add +1 to Attack and Damage with ranged weapon if the attack is within 6 squares.
You may take this feat multiple times each additonal time you gain +1 damage to ranged attacks within 6 squares. (You do not gain additional bonuses to attack rolls however)
Rage Str 13+,Int 12 or less You can enter into a fearsome rage once a day. When you rage you add +2 to melee attack and damage rolls, gain 20 temporary hit points, and a +2 bonus to all saves. This rage lasts a number of rounds equal to three times your con bonus. After the rage is over, you are fatigued for an equal number of rounds.
You may take this feat multiple times, each time you can use Rage one additional time per day.
Rapid Fire Dex 13+,+1 BAB.
With any projectile weapon with a standard rate of fire you can make an extra attack at –4 penalty to all attacks that round (instead of –8) ). The extra attack is a separate attack roll (with the same penalty).
You can take this feat multiple times, each additional time the penalty is reduced by 1. For example, if you took this feat 3 times, your penalty would be down to –2. If taken 6 times or more you actually get +1 more to the attack roll in rapid fire each time.
Multi-Fire Dex 13+,+1 BAB
You expend multiple shots with a gun, or any projectile weapon with a standard rate of fire as single attack on a single target. You make one attack roll with a –2 penalty, expending one extra round, and do +1 die of damage more than a single shot would normally do. You can take this feat multiple times. Each additional time, You can expend one more round and do +1 die more damage. The penalty also increases by
–2 more. For example, if you took this feat 3 times, you could fire 3 extra rounds doing +3 dice more damage with a penalty of –6 .
10 Perfect Shot Dex 13+
You no longer Suffer a –5 penalty for shooting into melee.
If you aim in a round, you get +1 to your attack roll. You may take this feat multiple times, each time you gain an Additional +1 to Attack when you aim.
Dodging
You designate 1 opponent you face during an encounter. Against that opponent you gain +1 dodge bonus to your AC and +1 to your reflex save. If that opponent is at 0 hit points or unconscious, you can switch the bonus to another opponent. You may take this feat multiple times, each time you gain an Additional +1 to AC and Reflex saves. You still must choose one specific opponent.
1 Two Weapon Combat Dex 13+,Int 13+
If you have a weapon in each hand, you can make an extra attack with your offhand, at –4 penalty to all attacks that round (instead of –8) ). The extra attack is a separate attack roll (with the same penalty). You can take this feat multiple times, each additional time the penalty is reduced by 1. For example, if you took this feat 3 times, your penalty would be down to –2.If taken 6 times or more you actually get +1 more to the attack roll in rapid fire each time.
One of the things I wish True20 had done, especially with the Expert Handbook. I thought of them as 'ranked' Feats (such as how they did some in Mutants & Masterminds) instead of 'stacked' Feats. But that is really just schematics.
To take this a step further, I would rather see a more 'building block' approach. Why have a wide assortment of Feats that just add to your roll? You really just need one feat that adds +X to one Skill choosen at selection. Or another that adds +X to hit with its companion, one that adds +X to hit, but only in certain situations and those situations are decided at Feat selection.
Too 4e?
Too 4e?
Thou shalt not speak of the blasphemy that is 4e for it is an abominations to all true gamers===the 11th commandment of Neek!
Yea, I have an idea for something similiar I call combat apps. Basically I would tie what are now some feats and class abilites to skills. For example anyone with Stealth as a trained skill could sneak attack, and the number of d6's would be tied to the number of ranks in Stealth. But tying them to conditions also increses the number of feat--and this is for a Lite version. You idea is a great one for a bigger version of 3.5 like Pathfinder, but would make it hard to keep it down....I am shooting for around 30-35 pages not unlike Gurps lite.
As for why so many that simply add x to hit: I kept breaking down feats into what the do and discovering that that is all most feats actually do! Tying t
But tying them to conditions also increses the number of feat
I do not think you quite following what I am suggesting. I am not proposing more Feats; only one Feat. Essentially, this feat adds +X in situation Y. There can be a short, non-inclusive list of situations that would appropriate. Each additional time the Feat is taken, it applies to a different situation.
If you are familiar with Hero and Penalty Skill Levels, that is kind of what I am thinking.
So, for example, you could take the Feat for +2 to AC only when wielding two weapons or +2 to damage only if you make a successful Stealth check. Bonuses would probably have to be playtested for balance. And general guidelines would need to be provided +1 for situations occurring 50% of the time, +2 for situations occurring 25% of the time, +4 for situations occurring 15% of the time. I do not have numbers, but this gives a better idea of what I am trying to get across.
Oh, and 4e is the best D&D eva!!1!!shift+1
Don't forget Microlite20.