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So last session, my Orc Ranger died due to a combination of paralysis and coup de grace. The GM does his stats a little differently than I'm used to, as he uses what he calls "dice pool." Essentially, you allot 4 dice to each stat and then have 12 extra dice to allot as you see fit. roll the dice take highest 3. I just went with 6 dice for each stat and came up with:
Str 10
Dex 17
Con 16
Int 16
Wis 16
Cha 17
Now, our party is pretty seriously lacking a ranged character, and the low Str/high Dex combo just screams archer to me, and the high Wis made me think of Monk for AC purposes.
That being said, does anyone have any advice as for which feats to pick up and when?
I'm considering being an elf, as that would bump my Dex to 19 and my Int to 18, so I could pick up Focused Shot and be getting a +4 to my damage with my bow. I'm also considering picking up the Vital Strike feats to make to most of Focused Shot each round at higher levels.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
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A decent archer actually needs a measure of strength, and with your wisdom lower than your dex, zen archery is verymeh. Focused shot will help, but actually with those lovely stat's i'd recommend a crossbow toting rogue, or better, a repeating crossbow toting Inquisitor. You have some seriously good stats there, but archery does need strength for decent damage.
My recommendation would be an elven or human rogue, you will have lovely saves, you will lack the glass cannon feel with your 14 or 16 Con, your will save and skills will be amazing...
If you want to go with monk, I would focus on AC with your high dex and wisdom, and finesse your fists. Perhaps a dexterity based combat maneuver specialist.
Low str/high dex screams sniper archetype halfling rogue to me.
Unless you're a bard-hater, I'd recommend going for an archery based Bard. Bards get enough sources of addional damage (arcane strike, inspire courage, etc.) that you can fake it reasonably well with a crap strength score. Also, your charisma rocks and it would definitly prove useful for a charisma based caster (Hello crowd control!).
I'd also like to throw in that an archery based Paladin is no laughing matter, and you've got the stats to rock it straight to the heavens.
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I agree that you could have a pretty serious archer Paladin or Inquisitor here. You could also set yourself up nicely with an archer Summoner. Elf will give you proficiency with a Longbow and even though you'll never output the kind of damage that someone with a better strength score would, the Eidolon will more than make up for it.
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I absolutely love Bards,but I play them so often that I didn't really want to go that route this time. Although I was very much thinking of the possibilities of a brilliant energy crossbow and greater invisibility. Flat-footed touch at range? Please and thank you.
Now a ranged Paladin is a concept that I've never really considered. Maybe its because I could never bring myself to play one back in 3.0, and I started playing World of Warcraft about 6 years into my D&D experience (they're incapable of using ranged weapons in that game), but that could really turn into something monstrous. As far as I can see, there's no range limit on smite evil...*shudder*
As far as the Summoner, I've been itching to play one of those, but I was concerned about adding yet another bruiser to the party. We ARE lacking an arcane caster again, though. I'll have to take a look at the Summoner's spell list to see how I can actually contribute aside from pew pewing and letting my Eidolon wreck s+#~.
I have much to consider. :D
Your DM won't let you switch your strength score with another? That would seem to be the simplest thing to do to get the character you want.
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If you want to be a bit more than a bruiser, I'd take a serious look at Inquisitor. Lots of good class skills and 6 skills per level, bonuses to Intimidate and Sense Motive, Detect Alignments at will, Discern Lies, bonuses to track and knowledge checks, initiative bonus, and so on. They start with proficiency in repeating crossbows so you can do that instead of a Long Bow if you like (My Inquisitor just found a sweet +1 humanbane repeater). Bane and Judgments will up your dpr, especially when you get Greater Bane at higher levels.
Sadly, the only teamwork feats with much application for archery are Lookout and Swap Places but Outflank and Precise Strike will help if you ever have to hop in to help in melee.
I'm enthralled by that stat rolling concept.
Hm... fighter time.
STR 4+4 ... 17
CON 4+4 ... 10
DEX 4+3 ... 11
INT 4 ... 14
WIS 4+1 ... 14
CHA 4 ... 11
There we are. Now I remember why I hate rolling dice for stats.
People like to insist that archers need high strength, like that 2 points of damage per round if you had a fourteen is make-or-break. Eventually you will get a damaging bow, plus deadly aim and that will dwarf your strength bonus.
The zen archer really wants a high strength. He's an archer with extreme flexibility. When he doesn't provoke in melee with his shots, he can still threaten with his unarmed strike while holding a bow. That means he can easily disarm an opponent on an attack of opportunity, or stunning fist them with his foot, or any other nastiness. Later when he can AoO with his bow, he'd eschew making unarmed strikes except to disarm and stunning fist, and later when all of his arrows are ki focus he'd just disarm with his feet. But strength is important enough for those CMB checks and those AoOs in the early game-- enough to have a 14 strength if you can get it.
Since you've got such a high int I would really suggest that int to damage feat. I think it's silly that it's a standard action, but, whatever. It'll help. The Zen Archer can actually _use_ the mobility of the monk to go places and then fire, so focused shot will probably get a lot of use by you-- 50% of the time, I'd say, unless the baddies are completely tied up in melee.
Solution for low strength? Guided weapon enhancement. Costs as a +1, but lets you use wisdom instead of strength for to hit and damage (it doesn't say melee only, but the "to hit" part suggests maybe it should - ask your GM to be sure).
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Solution for low strength? Guided weapon enhancement. Costs as a +1, but lets you use wisdom instead of strength for to hit and damage (it doesn't say melee only, but the "to hit" part suggests maybe it should - ask your GM to be sure).
In the table above the entry it places Guided among enhancements for melee weapons, not ranged. House rule you might but it seems unmitigated cheese in this instance.
In the table above the entry it places Guided among enhancements for melee weapons, not ranged. House rule you might but it seems unmitigated cheese in this instance.
Oh, I won't argue the cheesiness (though this is like...by far the best enchantment I can think of for a normal monk), but I will point out that in the original source, there's no table for melee/ranged/any. Like I said, the wording definitely paints it as melee only, but it's not explicitly stated.
Solution for low strength? Guided weapon enhancement. Costs as a +1, but lets you use wisdom instead of strength for to hit and damage (it doesn't say melee only, but the "to hit" part suggests maybe it should - ask your GM to be sure).In the table above the entry it places Guided among enhancements for melee weapons, not ranged. House rule you might but it seems unmitigated cheese in this instance.
Doesn't the table actually show the Guided enchancement as *both* a melee and ranged option? I'd figure it would work. Especially since you're getting half the effective bonus compared to its melee counterpart (which is still extremely useful at a range).
Hold up! I feel like there's some misunderstanding of the Archetype going on here. I'll just drop a few points here to be made easy enough, ok?
1) Stunning Fist *is* traded out at level 1 in the archetype, BUT ... it's just a feat. Use any of the character level feats and *poof* SF is back on the menu/table for the zen archer to mess up people that try and close to melee with him.
2) That said, pumping up Wis is THE rout to go. Forget about Dex or even strength - it's all about that Wis. Wis by level 3 adds "to hit" for the monk w/his ranged weapon, and it grants the same bonus to his AC ... more importantly, it grants higher DC's for the stunning fist if/when you want to use the thing. This is a solid, SOLID investment. Wis, for the Zen Archer IS your primary stat, period.
3) Zen Archer gets weapon specialization ... and weapon focus just free as part of their progression. Think on this for a minute ... it's very, very nice!. {anyone saying you *need* str 14 is nuts - once you hit level 3 you get a +2 to damage anyway - equal to that 14}
4) Guided Weapon is your VERY BEST FRIEND! If/as you pump the Wis score (remember it's primary on this build), you're also pumping up your damage output (again - who needs strength? Pfft!!!)
5) Ki Arrows ... you can burn a Ki Point to put your Unarmed Damage rating on your arrows ... flurry, w/melee die ... at range!!! Again, Guided Weapon and pumping Wis ... you see where this is going, right? (unarmed damage rating + the sky-high wis bonus damage ... all at range!!)
6) Reflexive Shot - by 9th level, you can make AoO's w/the bow (you still have guided weapon, right?) ... combo that with Combat Reflexes and you're in a good position to wipe the floor w/anyone near you. Use a SF on the AoO, and the sucker will likely blow the save (since you've been pumping Wis, right?) Nothing better than Stunning a potential attacker *as* they approach you or whatever.
7) Speaking of stunning, you can still invest in Medusa's Wrath feats and if someone is foolish enough to get into melee w/you, stun 'em, and whip out 2 MORE attacks on their now stunned behinds! {this would be using level feats, though}
8) Trick Shot - shoot around corners and ignore concealment. Ponder this ... it's a darn fine case to state that these guys are probably *THE* best archers in the game now.
9) Deadly Aim - the ranged PA ... 'nuff said.
10) Missing on bab or whatever - use the flurry. It ups monk BAB to equal monk level ... so it'll equal an archer (minus the weapon training bits). Still, this guy can afford to be single-mindedly dedicated to boosting Wis that it's fully ok and he'll only be a *tiny* bit off from a similarly dedicated fighter ... but then he's got Ki options that a fighter doesn't, and his base damage is FAR higher than a fighter on top of that. (ie: he's using his unarmed rating at a range on his arrows.)
Viking Irishman, brilliant energy weapon sheds light, invisibility does not cover it. Very bad for sniping. Perhaps if you ask your GM very nicely he will allow you to find a brilliant energy weapon that doesn't have light, but that's unlikely.
Bard is a nice build, but you already said not your first choice.
Assuming you can't switch your scores, ranged damage-builds won't be optimal. Rogues aren't good at sniping ranged, and other chars will need strength for damage, again, only if you want the optimum.
You could always play a summoner (you got the stats for it), and he has a very big bow. That could be quite good, altough it lacks class-features. You make up for it with spells.
Blasting sorcerer would be a possibility, but blasts aren't the best spells in Pathfinder.
I would try to complete the party in another way that ranged-damage, except if that is really what you want to play.
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Assuming you can't switch your scores, ranged damage-builds won't be optimal. Rogues aren't good at sniping ranged, and other chars will need strength for damage, again, only if you want the optimum.
I ... can't disagree more.
Str for archers is a luxury - something *nice* but not necessary. Especially as you'll need to keep Dex high for your best "to hit" chances normally.
Str should be like a tertiary stat at best for Archers, IMO. Good to have, but not necessary to get damage. PF, thankfully, helped them w/the ranged PA option of Deadly Aim.
If you go w/a str-based archer, you'll need to spend the extra $ on the compound options to the bow to increase it's cost. Kind of minor higher in levels, but killer early on. Even still, it's to get only whatever you can dedicate to your str in the first place (already a lower priority for the task at hand). So ... maybe you get a +2 composite bow ... yippee!! +2 flat isn't that much damage to write home about w/the bow's base being 1d8.
Going full on twink here, the bow fighter can by level 20 have his +5 to damage from wpn training, a +4 from the specialization feats, and whatever the weapon itself has going on (irrelevant as it's equipment and can easily be matched with a similar character type - ala: Zen Archer archetype Monk). Then there's Deadly Aim to factor in, so he can trade in a +6 to hit (1, base, then 1 more for each 4 BAB points, by level 20 it's 6) to pick up a +12 to damage.
So, he's doing 1d8+21, or averaging about 26 points or so per hit. He'll also be striking at a *mere* +1 over the non-PA rout. (the +5 from WT and the 1st degree of Focus go on the chopping block to pump up the damage.) That's not shabby at all!
Ok, so Zen Archer Monk, using flurry here - he gets 3 more hits than the archer (though I may be off not factoring in the Rapid Shot or Many Shot for above) - but my point is just having a few more "to hit" chances than the fighter archer.
Ok, so this guy uses 1 ki point he can use his Unarmed Strike damage on his arrows ... that's pretty hardcore for ranged damage. Well, he's doing 2d10 damage at range (true, it costs, but it's a fantastic investment). He can flurry and get multiple shots off - all doing the unarmed base rate, and he has specialization himself. He can also have deadly aim in play if he wants. Anyway, his average damage he'll have +2 to his damage from the specialization. If we go with the Wis-to damage enchantment on the weapon (why wouldn't we?) he can add that as well to his damage in a way the regular guy can't. the standard archer doesn't really have a good "add X to damage automatically" for him beyond the DA feat - and it's damn good! Anyway, point here going w/a maxed out stat in Wis is that he gets to add his wis to that damage inflicted as well. So he'll get + "full stat" to both hit and damage. Fighter Archer will have say full stat (dex likely) in his To hit, but not his damage. Assuming the monk will not use DA (just to keep his striking potential on par with the Fighter's), he'll still come in -2 under for the 2WF way that the flurry works ... so the fighter has the edge in to hit going by 2 points.
Back to damage: monk has a +2 from specialization and then he'll have + wis mod (call it a +12 or so yes?) to damage he inflicts. So a +14 total (again, leaving all enchantment-type stuff the same minus the wis mod one as that's THE point of using this Zen Archer guy). His damage is 2d10 + 14 ==> about an average of 26 damage as well per hit, but he's doing it at a -2 on his strike chances compared to the pure fighter archer (again, not factoring in Rapid or Multi Shot feats).
Advantage - the monk can manage this w/out using the Deadly Aim and his average damage about equals the fighter archers damage output. Looking a bit optimistically, if he gets max damage, he'll have a damage output of 34 compared to the fighter's 26. Of course, on the low end, he can also end up at a 16 vs. 26.
So ... w/NO strength used, it's a pretty good edge that the zen archer monk has - he can *at least* hang w/the fighter archer in damage output category.
OP- If you are going paladin archer with that statblock, you might want to take a dip in zen archer. You get flurry, a bonus feat, perfect strike, and unarmed strike.
And summoners get some pretty cool spells, with early entry on some of the best including haste at level 4, which will be awesome for a melee heavy party btw.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Question, since guided comes up all the time. . . is it PFS legal?
I don't believe so. It's not been reprinted in Ultimate Equipment.
Also, The Additiona Resources document only allows the following from the Curse of the Crimson Throne AP:
Pathfinder Adventure Path #9: "Escape from Old Korvosa"
Equipment: all equipment on page 83
Curse of the Crimson Throne Player's Guide
Equipment: all equipment on pages 12–13 (except hide shirt); Feats: Acadamae Graduate, Crossbow Mastery