Warning: This is gonna be a sizable post.
...and a couple of the most informative posts I've read. So thanks!
Also, in the many times this has come up before, it's been said that they couldn't get more adventure into the book and get it out monthly. The writing/editing/development manpower just isn't there.They can get out more fluff but not more adventure?
Background material doesn't require that the encounter(s) be set up and run three or four times with different mixes of characters of the appropriate level to make sure that they're balanced, rather than accidental TPKs.
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I'd make an analogy here between Paizo and Pixar.
Runelords, Crimson Throne and Kingmaker are like Toy Story, Finding Nemo and Incredibles. (or take your pick)
Doesn't mean there's not a lot of folks out there who think Council of Thieves (Monsters Inc?), Second Darkness (Bugs Life?) or Legacy of Fire (Cars?) are their favorites, or in their top 3 list instead of someone else's.
To me, Crimson Throne has broader popularity over Council for the content - not necessarily the leveling pace. I would say "Council of Thieves" is most basic-sounding name of all Paizo APs, lacking the mystique of Age of Worms, Savage Tide, etc, which'd have something to do with it.
One of the problems I find is some of the guys play with have attention span of hyperactive monkey that's just consumed a bottle of undiluted red cordial and 10 packets of sugar.
About 3 books in they start to see the other AP that has come out and want to play that. It becomes hard to get them to refocus.
Is there a chance of doing Half Paths or Short Paths (for the want of a better phrase) -
Either starting the characters at 6 and going through to 15 or 1 to 9, but to support this give the GM enough background and knowledge for the set up that they can sandbox the early or later game up to or after the AP.
I'd make an analogy here between Paizo and Pixar.
Runelords, Crimson Throne and Kingmaker are like Toy Story, Finding Nemo and Incredibles. (or take your pick)
Doesn't mean there's not a lot of folks out there who think Council of Thieves (Monsters Inc?), Second Darkness (Bugs Life?) or Legacy of Fire (Cars?) are their favorites, or in their top 3 list instead of someone else's.
To me, Crimson Throne has broader popularity over Council for the content - not necessarily the leveling pace. I would say "Council of Thieves" is most basic-sounding name of all Paizo APs, lacking the mystique of Age of Worms, Savage Tide, etc, which'd have something to do with it.
Thanks. Now I'm going to just sit around smiling and imagining all of the similarities between the APs and these movies for the rest of the night.
Queen Illeosa as Syndrome. The Stag Lord as Bruce the shark. Karzoug wearing Buzz Lightyear's space suit.
Serpent's Skull is Finding Nemo, though, I think.
I am doing the Kingmaker AP, and its our group's first published adventure. Even on medium progression, it levels faster than we are used to. I really like the idea of a 8-10 level AP, though I would not recommend 6. You can tell a complete story without becoming a demigod.
1. No. I like seeing my characters grow, and playing for 6 months to only get to level 10, or even worse 6 would not work for me and many others.
If a DM wants less leveling he could take out certain combats, and to deal with the fact that the party is not at the correct level to challenge things in the next book he could use monsters from the bestiary that are easier to deal with. I think an NPC book was released recently also. That way he wont have to manually rebuild every monster.
We still gain a level on medium progress at about the same rate in real-life time. In game time it takes longer in KM, but only because of the way the campaign is played designed since it takes place over months instead of days. I am a level addict, and I like new abilities so I doubt I could play the slow progression, and be too happy with it.
I myself enjoy a level progression slower than that presented in the APs, both as a player and GM.
It seems that a lot of 3rd Edition / Pathfinder players end up with characters who are continually learning how to use their powers and abilities, rather than mastering them through several adventures at each level. It seems that a lot of players go through a character in a year of play, rather than keeping with the same PC for years. (Would anybody today care about Robilar or Mordenkainen, I wonder, if they'd burned through their entire adventuring careers in 6 or 9 months?)
That seems to be a design feature of 3rd Edition.
Once there are a few APs under Paizo's belt, it would be nice to have one that presumes the slow level advancement (perhaps only taking the PCs to 8th or 10th Level) and another that presumes the fast level advancement.
I don't want to play the same character for years. I want the chance to play different characters. I think many players are like that. I have a better understanding of the game because I have tried so many different things. The option to retire a character may be there, but you will start at a higher level rather than see the new one "grow up".
Council of Thieves only goes up to about 13th or 14th level. We took a fair amount of complaints about that, and judging from overall reviews, the AP is certainly not the most popular (or even in the top 3)... so we're a bit hesitant to do more "lower level APs" in the immediate future. I'm sure we'll try one again someday though.I would also enjoy a slower paced adventure. Legacy of fire seems to be a bit slower paced overall but still pretty fast. A level 1-10 adventure would be great IMO. That said, there was some negative feedback when Paizo said originally Legacy of Fire was going to be 1-12th so I expect there would be similar complaints at shorter ones.
It would be REALLY nice if some APs were fast and went the full 18-20 levels and some were slow going only 10-12 levels so we could pick an AP based on pacing.
I'm planning on running my next AP at a slower pace and adding in supplemental encounters to spread things out a bit. In fact I'm going to start slowing our current group down for a bit.
Out of curiosity, what would be the top 3?
At this point I'm guessing:
1) Rise of the Runelords
2) Kingmaker
3) Curse of the Crimson Throne (or maybe Legacy of Fire)
Off-topic: I thought RotR was awesome, but my DM did not have time to convert to 3.5. I will probably buy it once I get some money I can spare. I want to try Legacy of Fire also. It sounds fun.
Kingmaker is my absolute favorite AP of all the ones released to date. Each adventure is perfection alone, and even better together. Excellent job from all the writers and developers!
Number two would be Legacy of Fire (I'm a sucker for planar adventures), with third place shared between Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne.