Half humans and Racial Favored Classes


Rules Questions

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Shadow Lodge

14 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

Arrgh,Paizo ate my post. So instead of being detail like I was before, I am making it simple: Per the rules as I understand them, half-elves and half-orcs may select racial favored class options off the human (and in the case of half-elves) and elf lists. This seems supported by their racial abilities and being able to access all other race-specific options such as feats and prestige classes.

I ask this because a half-elf sorceress in one of my groups wants to take the human favored class option of gaining additional spells known.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

As much as every part of my logical thinking brain cries "No!", RAW states:

Quote:
Elf/Orc Blood: Half-elves/orcs count as both humans and elves/orcs for any effect related to race.

Probably an unforeseen loophole, I can't see this as an intended benefit to the Halfbreed races.

Shadow Lodge

Wolfthulhu wrote:
As much as every part of my logical thinking brain cries "No!", RAW states:
Quote:
Elf/Orc Blood: Half-elves/orcs count as both humans and elves/orcs for any effect related to race.
Probably an unforeseen loophole, I can't see this as an intended benefit to the Halfbreed races.

See, every part of my logical thinking brain cries "Yes!", but its the part of me concerned with the power balance that says "No!". Though really, my concerns are with the human favored classes, not so much that half-orcs and half-elves can take them. So, we'll see how it plays out.


I would say that since the Elf/Orc blood thing was out far before the APG, the RAI is that it should be used only for things like Bane weapons or favored enemies, for example. Those are the "effects."

Otherwise you get silliness like Half-Orc and Half-Elf sorcerers taking the human favored class option, and things like that.


Half-elves are treated as humans and elves for qualifying for feats, for traits, for classes, why not favored class bonuses?

Kryptik wrote:
Otherwise you get silliness like Half-Orc and Half-Elf sorcerers taking the human favored class option, and things like that.

Why in the world would that be silly, or remotely problematic? After all, they both have human heritage. Drawing on it is entirely sensible and appropriate, and not at all unbalanced since the favored class bonus is rather minor.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Viletta Vadim wrote:

Half-elves are treated as humans and elves for qualifying for feats, for traits, for classes, why not favored class bonuses?

Kryptik wrote:
Otherwise you get silliness like Half-Orc and Half-Elf sorcerers taking the human favored class option, and things like that.
Why in the world would that be silly, or remotely problematic? After all, they both have human heritage. Drawing on it is entirely sensible and appropriate, and not at all unbalanced since the favored class bonus is rather minor.

I don't know about silly, but the fact that only Humans were given alternate favored Class bonus for every class implies that they are supposed to stand out in their versatility.

This interpretation, would make both Half-elves and Half-orcs even more versatile, since they would have extra options for every class in addition to their race specific Favored Class bonuses.


Wolfthulhu wrote:


This interpretation, would make both Half-elves and Half-orcs even more versatile,

Isn't that the point?

Of course, taking the argument to the one they are taking it too, you could say the half-breed races ALSO qualify for the racial bonuses their respective parent races get by default. Want a free feat of any kind? Be a half-elf; they are half-human!

The Exchange

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Cartigan wrote:
Wolfthulhu wrote:


This interpretation, would make both Half-elves and Half-orcs even more versatile,
Isn't that the point?

No, I don't think it is.

Jason Bulmahn via the Paizo blog wrote:
Of all the races, only humans have an option for all 17 classes.

No mention of 'humans and half-humans'.


Viletta Vadim wrote:

Half-elves are treated as humans and elves for qualifying for feats, for traits, for classes, why not favored class bonuses?

Kryptik wrote:
Otherwise you get silliness like Half-Orc and Half-Elf sorcerers taking the human favored class option, and things like that.
Why in the world would that be silly, or remotely problematic? After all, they both have human heritage. Drawing on it is entirely sensible and appropriate, and not at all unbalanced since the favored class bonus is rather minor.

A) Each race has it's own list of favored class bonuses for a reason. For example, the half-orc sorcerer already gets +1/2 fire damage for each bonus taken. Why would you ignore the list of bonuses already provided to jack something from the human list? Half-breed bonuses are already accounted for.

B) As I said before, the Elf/Orc blood thing was in place long before the APG. Wouldn't you think Paizo would have specifically mentioned if the half breed races had a special caveat that they could take things from other lists? Not that they really needed to IMO, as common sense already tells us what the answer is.

C) Consider this: I could (erroneously) claim that since half-elves count as elves and humans for any effect related to race, I can have the extra skill point per level that humans get. Or the elves' special weapon familiarities. I mean, those aren't that unbalancing, right? Oh wait, that's not what "effect" means. The humans and elves have their own racial characteristics for a reason, as do the half-breeds.


Wolfthulhu wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
Wolfthulhu wrote:


This interpretation, would make both Half-elves and Half-orcs even more versatile,
Isn't that the point?

No, I don't think it is.

Jason Bulmahn via the Paizo blog wrote:
Of all the races, only humans have an option for all 17 classes.
No mention of 'humans and half-humans'.

I think you missed my point that letting them take Human racial Favored Class replacement abilities is inherently wrong and does NOT agree with RAW.


"Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race."
"Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race."

From the PRD

Seems to me this racial trait is talking about effects so it wouldn't apply to favor class bonuses as they are not effects. A good example of this is the Ghouls paralyzing touch. Elves are immune to the effect. So Half-Elves due to this racial trait would be immune as well since they are considered Elves. Another example is say a Orcish Great Axe applies negative level to anyone wield that are not Orcs. The Half-Orc would be considered an Orc for this axe and avoid the negative level.

Dark Archive

I think from a RAI standpoint, it is quite obvious that Half-Elves and Half-Orcs are not meant to be able to take the Favored Class benefits that Humans receive. RAW may be slightly controversial, but I wouldn't let a half-elf or half-orc player take a Favored Class benefit from the Human list.


Wolfthulhu wrote:
As much as every part of my logical thinking brain cries "No!", RAW states:
Quote:
Elf/Orc Blood: Half-elves/orcs count as both humans and elves/orcs for any effect related to race.
Probably an unforeseen loophole, I can't see this as an intended benefit to the Halfbreed races.

If the answer wasn't "no" they would have just referenced the human favored class bonuses instead of printing new ones.


To me, the racial favored class options should be treated the same as race traits, meaning you cannot have them if you are not fully of that race.


Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
To me, the racial favored class options should be treated the same as race traits, meaning you cannot have them if you are not fully of that race.

That is NOT how racial traits interact with half-races. Witness the APG feat Racial Heritage:

Quote:


The blood of a non-human ancestor flows in your veins.
Prerequisite: Human.
Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as
both human and that race for any effects related to race.
For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both
a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats,
how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.

"You count as both X and Y for any effects related to race" is the exact same text used for half-elves and half-orcs, to the letter. The example then specifically lists traits as one thing that allows you to use.

So, if it works the same way as race-specific traits, then you can take either half-race favored class option as well.

---

NOTE: I don't really have a horse in this race. I'm interested in the official answer, because it affects a lot of different things and the Racial Heritage feat is the closest we've gotten to a definition of just what "any effect related to race" is. I posted this for just that reason.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There's no way it is intended, given that Half Elves and Half Orcs have their own little sections and special abilities. IMO it's akin to being like, well, my Half Orc counts as a human, so it gets +2 to any attribute and a free feat!

But as written it may be legal, I dunno. You can wait for an official ruling if you like, there may be one.


No where does it say Race favored class options, so no it is allowed. If it was allowed it would list it in the AGP has half races would have more options then anyone else. As it is not listed in the AGP it is clearly not allowed.

Shadow Lodge

I would point out that there are two things called "Racial Traits", the Racial Traits in the race chapter, and the Racial Traits in the traits chapter. I suspect the feat Zurai mentions is intended for the latter but there is no real way of knowing.

Really really poor choice here putting two different things with the same name.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
No where does it say Race favored class options, so no it is allowed. If it was allowed it would list it in the AGP has half races would have more options then anyone else. As it is not listed in the AGP it is clearly not allowed.

Devil's Advocate position:

So "any effects related to race" only includes traits, feats, spells, and magic items? Because those are the only things that are actually listed.

Liberty's Edge

This reminds me of the Toothy/Razortusk question.

Paizo needs to hire lawyers to go over the language before they publish rulebooks. Of course, they will be twice as many pages and three times as expensive and a pain to read, but there will be less: "Hey, this says this. I bet I can make it mean this other thing."


Kryptik wrote:
B) As I said before, the Elf/Orc blood thing was in place long before the APG. Wouldn't you think Paizo would have specifically mentioned if the half breed races had a special caveat that they could take things from other lists? Not that they really needed to IMO, as common sense already tells us what the answer is.

Yes, they would mention that they have a special caveat. And they do. That's what Elf Blood/Orc Blood are. They would have to mention a special caveat to say that they couldn't.

And it's not at all unbalancing. These are minor tweaks, not major overhauls. They're no big deal, just nice options.

Shadow Lodge

Kryptik wrote:

B) As I said before, the Elf/Orc blood thing was in place long before the APG. Wouldn't you think Paizo would have specifically mentioned if the half breed races had a special caveat that they could take things from other lists? Not that they really needed to IMO, as common sense already tells us what the answer is.

C) Consider this: I could (erroneously) claim that since half-elves count as elves and humans for any effect related to race, I can have the extra skill point per level that humans get. Or the elves' special weapon familiarities. I mean, those aren't that unbalancing, right? Oh wait, that's not what "effect" means. The humans and elves have their own racial characteristics for a reason, as do the half-breeds.

C is a strawman argument, and entirely unnecessary.

However, I dont really understand what you are arguing with B. The ability is in the core rules, existed long before the APG, so it should be assumed that they took it into consideration when designing the APG.

And let's be clear, this is nothing new, not to Pathfinder, nor d&d.
I know in 3.5 it was common that half-humans could take human-only substitution levels, human paragon levels, feats, etc.


0gre wrote:

I would point out that there are two things called "Racial Traits", the Racial Traits in the race chapter, and the Racial Traits in the traits chapter. I suspect the feat Zurai mentions is intended for the latter but there is no real way of knowing.

Really really poor choice here putting two different things with the same name.

Almost the same wording. The intrinsic stuff is Racial Traits, while the abilities you choose for the character from the traits section are Race Traits.


Viletta Vadim wrote:
Kryptik wrote:
B) As I said before, the Elf/Orc blood thing was in place long before the APG. Wouldn't you think Paizo would have specifically mentioned if the half breed races had a special caveat that they could take things from other lists? Not that they really needed to IMO, as common sense already tells us what the answer is.

Yes, they would mention that they have a special caveat. And they do. That's what Elf Blood/Orc Blood are. They would have to mention a special caveat to say that they couldn't.

And it's not at all unbalancing. These are minor tweaks, not major overhauls. They're no big deal, just nice options.

You are entirely missing my point. Paizo would have specifically noted if the half breeds could take favored class bonuses specific to other races, in addition to the ones they already have!. Elf/Orc Blood was part of the construct long before race-specific class bonuses ever came along! They applied to things like feats and Bane weapons. Why on earth would Paizo list half breed-specific favored class bonuses if you could just take whatever you wanted from other races? Wouldn't it be better to just leave the favored class bonuses section empty and say, "Select a favored class bonus from either elf/orc or human."

I also find it interesting that you skipped my other two points just to misrepresent my point.


Kryptik wrote:
You are entirely missing my point. Paizo would have specifically noted if the half breeds could take favored class bonuses specific to other races, in addition to the ones they already have!.

That doesn't follow. They did not specifically note that, for example, Half-Elves could take Racial Traits from the Human, Half-Elven, and Elven Racial Traits list. In fact, nothing at all was mentioned about that until the APG, even though Paizo has been printing traits (including racial traits) for something like half or three quarters of a year now.


Varthanna wrote:
Kryptik wrote:

B) As I said before, the Elf/Orc blood thing was in place long before the APG. Wouldn't you think Paizo would have specifically mentioned if the half breed races had a special caveat that they could take things from other lists? Not that they really needed to IMO, as common sense already tells us what the answer is.

C) Consider this: I could (erroneously) claim that since half-elves count as elves and humans for any effect related to race, I can have the extra skill point per level that humans get. Or the elves' special weapon familiarities. I mean, those aren't that unbalancing, right? Oh wait, that's not what "effect" means. The humans and elves have their own racial characteristics for a reason, as do the half-breeds.

C is a strawman argument, and entirely unnecessary.

However, I dont really understand what you are arguing with B. The ability is in the core rules, existed long before the APG, so it should be assumed that they took it into consideration when designing the APG.

And let's be clear, this is nothing new, not to Pathfinder, nor d&d.
I know in 3.5 it was common that half-humans could take human-only substitution levels, human paragon levels, feats, etc.

"C is a strawman", etc...

False. It is entirely appropriate to the situation because, like Favored Class bonuses, the racial attribute sections include special abilities unique for half-breeds. If as a half-elf I'm also considered to be a human, why can't I take the extra skill point? Because I'm a half-elf, not a human. If as a half-orc sorcerer I am considered a human, why can't I have the human sorc. fav. class bonus? Because half-orc sorcerers already have a bonus specific to their halfbreed race.

"I don't really understand what you're arguing with B", etc...

Considering that half-breeds already have favored class bonuses as opposed to picking other races' FCBs, what sort of precedent would you look to to grant them such? When favored class bonuses weren't around, the "effect" was such things as feats, prestige class prereqs, magical effects, favored enemy, etc. If that were to change, wouldn't Paizo have specifically noted the update?

"And let's be clear, this is nothing new, not to Pathfinder, nor d&d.
I know in 3.5 it was common that half-humans could take human-only substitution levels, human paragon levels, feats, etc."

Have a little strawman yourself. Yes, that was something that fell under "effect." That does NOT mean that halfbreeds who are clearly given their own set of FCBs can take other races' FCBs. Very different things.


Am I seriously the only one here who thinks it's silly that somebody says, "You, as a halfbreed, are allowed to have A, B, and C" and the reaction is, "Hmm, D is looking pretty nice..."?


Kryptik wrote:
Am I seriously the only one here who thinks it's silly that somebody says, "You, as a halfbreed, are allowed to have A, B, and C" and the reaction is, "Hmm, D is looking pretty nice..."?

Am I seriously the only one here who thinks it's silly that the "And so on" is being ignored in the statement, "You, as a halfbreed, are allowed to have A, B, C, and so on"?

Shadow Lodge

Kryptik wrote:
Am I seriously the only one here who thinks it's silly that somebody says, "You, as a halfbreed, are allowed to have A, B, and C" and the reaction is, "Hmm, D is looking pretty nice..."?

When A says you get D, and B and C both suck, then yea, I think so. :)


No A does not say you get D


Zurai wrote:
Kryptik wrote:
You are entirely missing my point. Paizo would have specifically noted if the half breeds could take favored class bonuses specific to other races, in addition to the ones they already have!.
That doesn't follow. They did not specifically note that, for example, Half-Elves could take Racial Traits from the Human, Half-Elven, and Elven Racial Traits list. In fact, nothing at all was mentioned about that until the APG, even though Paizo has been printing traits (including racial traits) for something like half or three quarters of a year now.

I'm not sure I understand. If by "Racial Traits" you mean the table of information that tells you what you get as being a member of a particular race....then it doesn't get much more specific than that. They tell you what you have.

It's like..."Ok, you're a shortsword, sort of midway between a dagger and a longsword. You have some traits of both weapons, but you will never have quite the reach of the longsword, or quite as easy to conceal as the dagger."

That does not mean I can be like, "Hey, I think this slightly vague rule means I can have the reach of the longsword!!"

Liberty's Edge

Kryptik wrote:
Am I seriously the only one here who thinks it's silly that somebody says, "You, as a halfbreed, are allowed to have A, B, and C" and the reaction is, "Hmm, D is looking pretty nice..."?

"Silly" is not the word I was thinking.

Some players are going to see something they want and try to find a way to get it using the uncertainty of the language of the rulebook. Paizo is partly at fault for not being more precise.


Kryptik wrote:
Zurai wrote:
Kryptik wrote:
You are entirely missing my point. Paizo would have specifically noted if the half breeds could take favored class bonuses specific to other races, in addition to the ones they already have!.
That doesn't follow. They did not specifically note that, for example, Half-Elves could take Racial Traits from the Human, Half-Elven, and Elven Racial Traits list. In fact, nothing at all was mentioned about that until the APG, even though Paizo has been printing traits (including racial traits) for something like half or three quarters of a year now.
I'm not sure I understand. If by "Racial Traits" you mean the table of information that tells you what you get as being a member of a particular race....then it doesn't get much more specific than that. They tell you what you have.

No, I'm referring to the subtype of Traits (as in the Pathfinder RPG Traits free download and the Traits in the back of the APG, not as in "racial features") called Racial Traits. The kind that are only allowed to be taken if you are a member of the correct race, and nowhere was it said that half-races could take them ... until the APG came along and provided the Racial Heritage feat, which gave us a short list of examples of what "any effect based on race" meant as well as an "and so on" extender.

Scarab Sages

Whatever RAW intended, I do not believe that the RAI was to have Human favored class options be available to half-elves or half-orcs. Jason indicated that only Humans should be able to access options for all 17 classes, so to give half-elves and half-orcs not only those 17 but another 7 options for various classes seems off.

Humans are supposed to be the kings of versatility, not the half-breeds.

Hopefully Jason will step in and clear it up sometime. :)


Zurai wrote:
Kryptik wrote:
Zurai wrote:
Kryptik wrote:
You are entirely missing my point. Paizo would have specifically noted if the half breeds could take favored class bonuses specific to other races, in addition to the ones they already have!.
That doesn't follow. They did not specifically note that, for example, Half-Elves could take Racial Traits from the Human, Half-Elven, and Elven Racial Traits list. In fact, nothing at all was mentioned about that until the APG, even though Paizo has been printing traits (including racial traits) for something like half or three quarters of a year now.
I'm not sure I understand. If by "Racial Traits" you mean the table of information that tells you what you get as being a member of a particular race....then it doesn't get much more specific than that. They tell you what you have.
No, I'm referring to the subtype of Traits (as in the Pathfinder RPG Traits free download and the Traits in the back of the APG, not as in "racial features") called Racial Traits. The kind that are only allowed to be taken if you are a member of the correct race, and nowhere was it said that half-races could take them ... until the APG came along and provided the Racial Heritage feat, which gave us a short list of examples of what "any effect based on race" meant as well as an "and so on" extender.

The "and so on" part is what causes this kind of shenaniganery in the first place. Would it have been that hard to clear up the parameters? Ugh.

My argument is that Rule 0 suggests that halfbreeds already have been given their toys, and cannot demand more. If you want to houserule it, fine, but I can say that neither I nor all the players I know would touch that with a 10 foot pole. It is my opinion that a conservative reading of the rules should be applied when the vagueness of a rule in question, until further clarification.

Can we get some dev. love, please?


Kryptik wrote:
The "and so on" part is what causes this kind of shenaniganery in the first place. Would it have been that hard to clear up the parameters? Ugh.

I absolutely agree with this. Like I said, I don't really care what the official answer is, so long as there is one. I agree that it's probably not Rules as Intended but probably does work Rules as Written, and am ambivalent about which of those two should change (I don't think it's overpowered to let half-races take heritage favored class options in addition to all the other heritage stuff they get, but neither do I think it's essential that they keep it).

Quote:
My argument is that Rule 0 suggests that halfbreeds already have been given their toys, and cannot demand more.

And my argument is that this doesn't account for the fact that Racial Traits were not listed as gained by having racial heritage until just recently, but were intended to be (seemingly). Thus, we have an actual question about whether it is or is not Rules as Intended -- there are valid arguments for either answer.

Hopefully we can get James or Jason or Josh (hey, all three are J names.... hmmm....) in here to provide some enlightenment.


voska66 wrote:

"Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race."

"Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race."

From the PRD

Nth time someone ask this question (let me be N-1): What in Earth is "an effect" in PF terms? a magic effect? everything? half-everything?

Thx in advance

Liberty's Edge

PathfinderEspañol wrote:
voska66 wrote:

"Half-orcs count as both humans and orcs for any effect related to race."

"Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race."

From the PRD

Nth time someone ask this question (let me be N-1): What in Earth is "an effect" in PF terms? a magic effect? everything? half-everything?

Thx in advance

IMO, "Effect" is the result of any ability or magic that does something. Bane, favored enemies, etc fall under this because they have a different effect based on race. Feats, traits, racial abilities, etc do not because the racial difference applies to the ability, not the effect. There may be exceptions to this (eg feats that do not require a race, but have different effects based on race).


I'm no expert, but it seems to me that almost all traits and racial substitution traits are back story related, not as a result of that particular races DNA so to speak.

Considering the above it makes sense to me that a half human could pick from one of 3 groups of racial traits, but not 2 or 3.

for instance, a half elf raised by elves might pick from the elven traits, while one raised by humans from the human traits, and one raised by half elves from the half elf list.

I Kinda chuckled when someone said Paizo should have hired lawyers go over the rules, they probably tried, but apparently the rules lawyers were all here :P

wc


StabbittyDoom wrote:
IMO, "Effect" is the result of any ability or magic that does something. Bane, favored enemies, etc fall under this because they have a different effect based on race. Feats, traits, racial abilities, etc do not because the racial difference applies to the ability, not the effect. There may be exceptions to this (eg feats that do not require a race, but have different effects based on race).
Except, again, we have an explicit explanation that this is most certainly not what "effect" means and that it does include such things as traits and feats, making your opinion a direct contradiction to established fact. Requoting:
Quote:

The blood of a non-human ancestor flows in your veins.

Prerequisite: Human.
Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as
both human and that race for any effects related to race.
For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both
a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats,
how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.

Sczarni

i dont know if this has been mentioned but what if you simply allow the half-orc or the half-elf gain the option to use both options for their favored classes?

for instance the half-orc has the option to use both the half-orc favored class bonus for the barbarian and the human favored class bonus for the barbarian but they dont gain the option to choose a favored class bonus that isn't on the half-orc list?

just an idea

Liberty's Edge

Viletta Vadim wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
IMO, "Effect" is the result of any ability or magic that does something. Bane, favored enemies, etc fall under this because they have a different effect based on race. Feats, traits, racial abilities, etc do not because the racial difference applies to the ability, not the effect. There may be exceptions to this (eg feats that do not require a race, but have different effects based on race).
Except, again, we have an explicit explanation that this is most certainly not what "effect" means and that it does include such things as traits and feats, making your opinion a direct contradiction to established fact. Requoting:
Quote:

The blood of a non-human ancestor flows in your veins.

Prerequisite: Human.
Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as
both human and that race for any effects related to race.
For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both
a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats,
how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.

Oy. So that means we can have a part orc, part elf, part human, et al.

My hatred for half-breeds grew a size today.
Can a human take that feat for "Half-orc"? That would be weird, but there ARE feats that have "half-orc" as one of the pre-requisites (namely the bite one) which would prohibit a human or an orc from taking it.
I think I'm either going to ignore the wording of that feat, consider those extra allowances as part of that specific feat or just ban half-breeding in general in my games (with the exception of extremely unusual circumstances).


My perspective says that if Elf/Orc Blood states that Half-elves/orcs count as both elves/orcs and humans for any effect related to race, they mean any effect related to race.

Without DISALLOWING the already in-place, established for years in prior-roleplaying games rule, I say it is valid for a Half-Elf/Orc to use Human favoured class options.


Except it has been said only humans and no other race have one for every class. If they could then it would say "pick elf or human ability" and would have none listed. This is not the case so clearly they can not take the human feature.


Where does it say that?


Where does it state you may take human favored class bonus in place of your races favored class bonus?

This was not the intent and not what the rules say.


Had the same Question as I read the APG.

With the Feat

Quote:

The blood of a non-human ancestor flows in your veins.

Prerequisite: Human.
Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as
both human and that race for any effects related to race.
For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both
a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats,
how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.

In mind, I think it should be allowed as a half-breed to also take the favored racial class features of both his parents races, because if you aren't a half breed but only take this feat, you can.

I would interpret this feat and the halfbreed so:

half-blood: One Parent Human other orc/elf
Feat: both parents human, but somewhere in your families past, there was a half-blood

So why should the "thinner" blood be allowed to take the traits, but the "purer" blood not?
That's sounds weird, especially as Half-Elves are always considered as very flexible and adaptable.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Varthanna wrote:

Arrgh,Paizo ate my post. So instead of being detail like I was before, I am making it simple: Per the rules as I understand them, half-elves and half-orcs may select racial favored class options off the human (and in the case of half-elves) and elf lists. This seems supported by their racial abilities and being able to access all other race-specific options such as feats and prestige classes.

I ask this because a half-elf sorceress in one of my groups wants to take the human favored class option of gaining additional spells known.

The impression is false. If that were the case the Half-Elves and Half-Orcs would not have specific lists of their own. They are unique races, not just the sum of their half parts. They don't use elf or orc racial modifiers, they use half-elf and half-orc racial modifiers. Similarly they each use their own rules for favored class, and class options, they get one shopping list, not three.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
northbrb wrote:

i dont know if this has been mentioned but what if you simply allow the half-orc or the half-elf gain the option to use both options for their favored classes?

I consider this an extremely unbalanced choice. The Half-Humans have nice options of thier own. i don't see why those races should get three shopping lists while everyone else only has one.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Propane wrote:
Where does it say that?

I quoted Mr. Bulmahn's comment upthread.

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