paizo.com Recent Posts in Half humans and Racial Favored Classespaizo.com Recent Posts in Half humans and Racial Favored Classes2014-06-03T19:50:48Z2014-06-03T19:50:48ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesKryptikhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#902014-06-03T18:40:30Z2014-06-03T18:40:30Z<p>Monster Ronster, look at the bottom of the FAQ entry. The edit date is 9/26/13. This thread was 2010. The FAQ is a reversal of this thread's ruling.</p>Monster Ronster, look at the bottom of the FAQ entry. The edit date is 9/26/13. This thread was 2010. The FAQ is a reversal of this thread's ruling.Kryptik2014-06-03T18:40:30ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesDread Knighthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#892014-06-03T18:27:58Z2014-06-03T18:27:58Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Monster Ronster wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Dread Knight wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Monster Ronster wrote:</div><blockquote> I know this is an old thread, but I came looking for it because I use Hero Lab. And they apparently think that a half elf can choose an extra spell known each level as a Favoured Class Racial Bonus. It appears to be in error, if I've read this thread correctly. </blockquote><p>No it's right.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">FAQ wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Half-Elf or Half-Orc: Can a character of either of these races select human racial archetypes (such as from Advanced Race Guide?
</p>
Yes. Half-elves and half-orcs may select racial favored class options, archetypes, traits, and so on, as if they were a full member of both races (a half-elf can select elf and human rules elements, a half-orc can select human and orc rules elements).</p>
<p>Edit 9/26/13: This is a reversal of an earlier ruling. This resolves a discrepancy between this FAQ and two Advanced Player's Guide FAQs.</blockquote></blockquote><p>Buuuuut:
<p>Hey there folks,</p>
<p>Alternate racial favored class bonuses are not "an effect", and hence do not qualify under the clause presented in the "half" races.</p>
<p>Sorry charlie... :-)</p>
<p>Jason Bulmahn
<br />
Lead Designer
<br />
Paizo Publishing</p>
<p>From the mouth of a designer. </blockquote><p>That was a post before it was changed in the FAQ.Monster Ronster wrote:Dread Knight wrote: Monster Ronster wrote: I know this is an old thread, but I came looking for it because I use Hero Lab. And they apparently think that a half elf can choose an extra spell known each level as a Favoured Class Racial Bonus. It appears to be in error, if I've read this thread correctly.
No it's right. FAQ wrote: Half-Elf or Half-Orc: Can a character of either of these races select human racial archetypes (such as from Advanced Race Guide?
Yes....Dread Knight2014-06-03T18:27:58ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesMonster Ronster (alias of ScrotusMaximus)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#882014-06-03T19:50:48Z2014-06-03T17:57:08Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Dread Knight wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Monster Ronster wrote:</div><blockquote> I know this is an old thread, but I came looking for it because I use Hero Lab. And they apparently think that a half elf can choose an extra spell known each level as a Favoured Class Racial Bonus. It appears to be in error, if I've read this thread correctly. </blockquote><p>No it's right.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">FAQ wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Half-Elf or Half-Orc: Can a character of either of these races select human racial archetypes (such as from Advanced Race Guide?
</p>
Yes. Half-elves and half-orcs may select racial favored class options, archetypes, traits, and so on, as if they were a full member of both races (a half-elf can select elf and human rules elements, a half-orc can select human and orc rules elements).</p>
<p>Edit 9/26/13: This is a reversal of an earlier ruling. This resolves a discrepancy between this FAQ and two Advanced Player's Guide FAQs.</blockquote></blockquote><p>Buuuuut:
<p>Hey there folks,</p>
<p>Alternate racial favored class bonuses are not "an effect", and hence do not qualify under the clause presented in the "half" races.</p>
<p>Sorry charlie... :-)</p>
<p>Jason Bulmahn
<br />
Lead Designer
<br />
Paizo Publishing</p>
<p>From the mouth of a designer.</p>Dread Knight wrote:Monster Ronster wrote: I know this is an old thread, but I came looking for it because I use Hero Lab. And they apparently think that a half elf can choose an extra spell known each level as a Favoured Class Racial Bonus. It appears to be in error, if I've read this thread correctly.
No it's right. FAQ wrote: Half-Elf or Half-Orc: Can a character of either of these races select human racial archetypes (such as from Advanced Race Guide?
Yes. Half-elves and half-orcs may...Monster Ronster (alias of ScrotusMaximus)2014-06-03T17:57:08ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesDread Knighthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#872014-05-03T03:31:14Z2014-05-03T03:31:14Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Monster Ronster wrote:</div><blockquote> I know this is an old thread, but I came looking for it because I use Hero Lab. And they apparently think that a half elf can choose an extra spell known each level as a Favoured Class Racial Bonus. It appears to be in error, if I've read this thread correctly. </blockquote><p>No it's right.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">FAQ wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Half-Elf or Half-Orc: Can a character of either of these races select human racial archetypes (such as from Advanced Race Guide?
</p>
Yes. Half-elves and half-orcs may select racial favored class options, archetypes, traits, and so on, as if they were a full member of both races (a half-elf can select elf and human rules elements, a half-orc can select human and orc rules elements).</p>
<p>Edit 9/26/13: This is a reversal of an earlier ruling. This resolves a discrepancy between this FAQ and two Advanced Player's Guide FAQs.</blockquote><p>Monster Ronster wrote:I know this is an old thread, but I came looking for it because I use Hero Lab. And they apparently think that a half elf can choose an extra spell known each level as a Favoured Class Racial Bonus. It appears to be in error, if I've read this thread correctly.
No it's right. FAQ wrote: Half-Elf or Half-Orc: Can a character of either of these races select human racial archetypes (such as from Advanced Race Guide?
Yes. Half-elves and half-orcs may select racial favored...Dread Knight2014-05-03T03:31:14ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesMonster Ronster (alias of ScrotusMaximus)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#862014-05-03T03:23:05Z2014-05-03T03:23:05Z<p>I know this is an old thread, but I came looking for it because I use Hero Lab. And they apparently think that a half elf can choose an extra spell known each level as a Favoured Class Racial Bonus. It appears to be in error, if I've read this thread correctly.</p>I know this is an old thread, but I came looking for it because I use Hero Lab. And they apparently think that a half elf can choose an extra spell known each level as a Favoured Class Racial Bonus. It appears to be in error, if I've read this thread correctly.Monster Ronster (alias of ScrotusMaximus)2014-05-03T03:23:05ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesWolfthulhuhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#852010-08-12T23:00:38Z2010-08-12T23:00:38Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Enevhar Aldarion wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Alright folks, I did some digging through the forums here and found a post from just back in April by James addressing the Bastard campaign trait in the Kingmaker Player's Guide:</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">James Jacobs wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Bastard is a campaign trait, not a race trait. You don't need to take Adopted to take the Kingmaker's Bastard campaign trait, and more to the point, Adopted won't LET you take that trait since it's not a race trait.</p>
<p>And now that I've thought it over... the fact that half-elves have the elf blood racial trait, which means they're counted as both elves AND humans for any effect related to race, more or less means that they DO qualify for the Bastard trait. Because they count as humans, and thus fill the prerequisite for the Bastard trait. Same goes for half-orcs.</p>
<p>yay! no errata or houseruling needed! </blockquote><p>So at least James says that Race traits are included in the definition of "effect" in the Elf Blood and Orc Blood descriptions. So unless Jason or someone else comes back in here and says differently, we have something official from James.
<p>Now the only thing I would like is if one of them would post here saying the wording from that feat is the correct wording for Elf Blood, Orc Blood and any other future half-blood race that may come along. </blockquote><p>I don't know that I have a problem with traits being included in this. (As is the racial trait sub-section of Traits, NOT Racial Traits, that's just nonsense.)
<p>But as far as the OP of this thread, We have an answer from Jason.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Jason Bulmahn wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Hey there folks,</p>
<p>Alternate racial favored class bonuses are not "an effect", and hence do not qualify under the clause presented in the "half" races. </p>
<p>Sorry charlie... :-)</p>
<p>Jason Bulmahn
<br />
Lead Designer
<br />
Paizo Publishing </blockquote><p>Enevhar Aldarion wrote:Alright folks, I did some digging through the forums here and found a post from just back in April by James addressing the Bastard campaign trait in the Kingmaker Player's Guide:
James Jacobs wrote:
Bastard is a campaign trait, not a race trait. You don't need to take Adopted to take the Kingmaker's Bastard campaign trait, and more to the point, Adopted won't LET you take that trait since it's not a race trait.And now that I've thought it over... the fact that...Wolfthulhu2010-08-12T23:00:38ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesEnevhar Aldarionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#842010-08-12T22:44:11Z2010-08-12T22:50:19Z<p>Alright folks, I did some digging through the forums here and found a post from just back in April by James addressing the Bastard campaign trait in the Kingmaker Player's Guide:</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">James Jacobs wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
Bastard is a campaign trait, not a race trait. You don't need to take Adopted to take the Kingmaker's Bastard campaign trait, and more to the point, Adopted won't LET you take that trait since it's not a race trait.</p>
<p>And now that I've thought it over... the fact that half-elves have the elf blood racial trait, which means they're counted as both elves AND humans for any effect related to race, more or less means that they DO qualify for the Bastard trait. Because they count as humans, and thus fill the prerequisite for the Bastard trait. Same goes for half-orcs.</p>
<p>yay! no errata or houseruling needed! </blockquote><p>So at least James says that Race traits are included in the definition of "effect" in the Elf Blood and Orc Blood descriptions. So unless Jason or someone else comes back in here and says differently, we have something official from James.
<p>Now the only thing I would like is if one of them would post here saying the wording from that feat is the correct wording for Elf Blood, Orc Blood and any other future half-blood race that may come along.</p>Alright folks, I did some digging through the forums here and found a post from just back in April by James addressing the Bastard campaign trait in the Kingmaker Player's Guide:
James Jacobs wrote:Bastard is a campaign trait, not a race trait. You don't need to take Adopted to take the Kingmaker's Bastard campaign trait, and more to the point, Adopted won't LET you take that trait since it's not a race trait.And now that I've thought it over... the fact that half-elves have the elf blood...Enevhar Aldarion2010-08-12T22:50:19ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesEnevhar Aldarionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#832014-07-11T03:15:23Z2010-08-12T21:58:34Z<p>I am with you two. I just want an official ruling for the rest as well. It is a lot easier to decide if you need to house rule something or not when that something is clear rather than vague and confusing. Of course, this was easier to deal with before Paizo introduced the Traits system and Race Traits. hehe</p>I am with you two. I just want an official ruling for the rest as well. It is a lot easier to decide if you need to house rule something or not when that something is clear rather than vague and confusing. Of course, this was easier to deal with before Paizo introduced the Traits system and Race Traits. heheEnevhar Aldarion2010-08-12T21:58:34ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesKryptikhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#822010-08-12T21:46:06Z2010-08-12T21:45:59Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Jason Bulmahn wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Hey there folks,</p>
<p>Alternate racial favored class bonuses are not "an effect", and hence do not qualify under the clause presented in the "half" races. </p>
<p>Sorry charlie... :-)</p>
<p>Jason Bulmahn
<br />
Lead Designer
<br />
Paizo Publishing </blockquote><p>Thanks for replying; I am glad common sense has won the day on the FCB issue.
<p>Like Zurai, however, I would be interested in seeing a concrete definition of the "effects" in the FAQ, just to ward off the shenanigans once and for all.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>Jason Bulmahn wrote:Hey there folks,
Alternate racial favored class bonuses are not "an effect", and hence do not qualify under the clause presented in the "half" races.
Sorry charlie... :-)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Thanks for replying; I am glad common sense has won the day on the FCB issue. Like Zurai, however, I would be interested in seeing a concrete definition of the "effects" in the FAQ, just to ward off the shenanigans once and for all.
Thanks!Kryptik2010-08-12T21:45:59ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesZurai (alias of William Senn)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#812014-05-02T22:31:37Z2010-08-12T20:31:55Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Jason Bulmahn wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Hey there folks,</p>
<p>Alternate racial favored class bonuses are not "an effect", and hence do not qualify under the clause presented in the "half" races. </p>
<p>Sorry charlie... :-)</p>
<p>Jason Bulmahn
<br />
Lead Designer
<br />
Paizo Publishing </blockquote><p>Cool. Thank you for the reply.
<p>While you're poking around, care to clarify whether Half-Elves and Half-Orcs can take Race Traits (from Chapter 8, not Chapter 1; example, "Scholar of Ruins") for Humans and Elves or Orcs, respectively, as the feat Racial Heritage implies they can? And, if not, why not?</p>
<p>A clarification of just what "an effect" is would be nice, too.</p>
<p>PS. I FAQ'd Jason's post. I suggest others do, too.</p>Jason Bulmahn wrote:Hey there folks,
Alternate racial favored class bonuses are not "an effect", and hence do not qualify under the clause presented in the "half" races.
Sorry charlie... :-)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Cool. Thank you for the reply. While you're poking around, care to clarify whether Half-Elves and Half-Orcs can take Race Traits (from Chapter 8, not Chapter 1; example, "Scholar of Ruins") for Humans and Elves or Orcs, respectively, as the feat Racial...Zurai (alias of William Senn)2010-08-12T20:31:55ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesJason Bulmahn (Director of Game Design)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#802022-03-14T14:01:40Z2010-08-12T18:50:45Z<p>Hey there folks,</p>
<p>Alternate racial favored class bonuses are not "an effect", and hence do not qualify under the clause presented in the "half" races. </p>
<p>Sorry charlie... :-)</p>
<p>Jason Bulmahn
<br />
Lead Designer
<br />
Paizo Publishing</p>Hey there folks,
Alternate racial favored class bonuses are not "an effect", and hence do not qualify under the clause presented in the "half" races.
Sorry charlie... :-)
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo PublishingJason Bulmahn (Director of Game Design)2010-08-12T18:50:45ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesLazarXhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#792010-08-12T18:09:35Z2010-08-12T18:09:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zurai wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Do people not bother to read the thread before they respond? This isn't even a particularly long thread, and the relevant rule has been quoted multiple times, the first time about three posts before your first post in the thread. Here it is yet again, though:</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote><p>Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. <b>You count as
</p>
both human and that race for any effects related to race.
<br />
For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both
<br />
a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits</b>, feats,
<br />
how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.</blockquote>"Any effects related to race" is the <b>precise</b> wording used for half-elves and half-orcs, and the feat then goes on to <b>specifically list</b> taking traits as one of the things "any effects related to race" refers to. </blockquote><p>Character generation is NOT AN EFFECT. The rule says effect.. nothing to do with character construction which applies to character generation and leveling. If being Half-Human were going to allow you to pick the features of both the half-species, the human half, and the non human half it would say so in the appropriate areas. It doesn't.Zurai wrote:Do people not bother to read the thread before they respond? This isn't even a particularly long thread, and the relevant rule has been quoted multiple times, the first time about three posts before your first post in the thread. Here it is yet again, though:
Quote:Benefit: Choose another humanoid race. You count as
both human and that race for any effects related to race.
For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both
a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking...LazarX2010-08-12T18:09:35ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesMessageboard Troll! (alias of Wolfthulhu)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#782010-08-12T18:07:23Z2010-08-12T18:07:23Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Tryn wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Jess Door wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Interesting question, can't believe I missed this topic until now. I think what I will allow is a half orc or half elf may take the human favored class bonus for their class if they choose ONLY if there is no half elf or half orc choice - in other words, their half orc or half elf specific bonus supercedes the basic human one.</p>
<p>if those favored class bonuses were Elven or Orc, and there were no half orc or half elf specific bonuses, I would allow them to pick from either.</p>
<p>I am interested on an official ruling as well. </blockquote><p>/sign
<p>after all the "you are wrong" "no, you are..." this is an intressting post/idea/approach to this topic.
<br />
</blockquote><p>You're wrong.Tryn wrote:Jess Door wrote:Interesting question, can't believe I missed this topic until now. I think what I will allow is a half orc or half elf may take the human favored class bonus for their class if they choose ONLY if there is no half elf or half orc choice - in other words, their half orc or half elf specific bonus supercedes the basic human one.
if those favored class bonuses were Elven or Orc, and there were no half orc or half elf specific bonuses, I would allow them to pick from...Messageboard Troll! (alias of Wolfthulhu)2010-08-12T18:07:23ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesTrynhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#772010-08-12T18:01:19Z2010-08-12T18:00:19Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Jess Door wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Interesting question, can't believe I missed this topic until now. I think what I will allow is a half orc or half elf may take the human favored class bonus for their class if they choose ONLY if there is no half elf or half orc choice - in other words, their half orc or half elf specific bonus supercedes the basic human one.</p>
<p>if those favored class bonuses were Elven or Orc, and there were no half orc or half elf specific bonuses, I would allow them to pick from either.</p>
<p>I am interested on an official ruling as well. </blockquote><p>/sign
<p>after all the "you are wrong" "no, you are..." this is an intressting post/idea/approach to this topic.</p>Jess Door wrote:Interesting question, can't believe I missed this topic until now. I think what I will allow is a half orc or half elf may take the human favored class bonus for their class if they choose ONLY if there is no half elf or half orc choice - in other words, their half orc or half elf specific bonus supercedes the basic human one.
if those favored class bonuses were Elven or Orc, and there were no half orc or half elf specific bonuses, I would allow them to pick from either.
I...Tryn2010-08-12T18:00:19ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesStabbittyDoomhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#762010-08-12T17:50:47Z2010-08-12T17:50:47Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Jess Door wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Interesting question, can't believe I missed this topic until now. I think what I will allow is a half orc or half elf may take the human favored class bonus for their class if they choose ONLY if there is no half elf or half orc choice - in other words, their half orc or half elf specific bonus supercedes the basic human one.</p>
<p>if those favored class bonuses were Elven or Orc, and there were no half orc or half elf specific bonuses, I would allow them to pick from either.</p>
<p>I am interested on an official ruling as well. </blockquote><p>In my home games I'm ignoring the racial restrictions on favored class bonuses and changing the "spells known" ones to "1/3 of a spell known," so the argument about favored class bonuses is kind-of moot for me.Jess Door wrote:Interesting question, can't believe I missed this topic until now. I think what I will allow is a half orc or half elf may take the human favored class bonus for their class if they choose ONLY if there is no half elf or half orc choice - in other words, their half orc or half elf specific bonus supercedes the basic human one.
if those favored class bonuses were Elven or Orc, and there were no half orc or half elf specific bonuses, I would allow them to pick from either.
I...StabbittyDoom2010-08-12T17:50:47ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesEnevhar Aldarionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#752010-08-12T17:49:08Z2010-08-12T17:49:07Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zurai wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Enevhar Aldarion wrote:</div><blockquote> Like I said before, or maybe I didn't (too many posts now), I did not see anywhere in the Core Pathfinder RPG Book an explanation of what "effect" means in this sentence: Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race. So show me a quote from the Core Book, or an official clarification post on these forums, of what "effect" means in this sentence and you win. </blockquote>So in other words, what you're saying is that "Any effect related to race" does <b>not</b> mean "taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on" because that's not in the Core Rulebook or on the forums? </blockquote><p>Right. Pathfinder is a continuation of 3rd Ed, so if they did not include a definition of "effect" to make it something different than what it was in 3rd, the definition from 3rd is correct. If there is something in 3rd that says more than what I quoted earlier about spells and magic items, I would consider that legal as well. Anything else would just be a house rule without a developer's official word on it.Zurai wrote:Enevhar Aldarion wrote: Like I said before, or maybe I didn't (too many posts now), I did not see anywhere in the Core Pathfinder RPG Book an explanation of what "effect" means in this sentence: Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race. So show me a quote from the Core Book, or an official clarification post on these forums, of what "effect" means in this sentence and you win.
So in other words, what you're saying is that "Any effect...Enevhar Aldarion2010-08-12T17:49:07ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesJess Doorhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#742010-08-12T17:45:06Z2010-08-12T17:45:06Z<p>Interesting question, can't believe I missed this topic until now. I think what I will allow is a half orc or half elf may take the human favored class bonus for their class if they choose ONLY if there is no half elf or half orc choice - in other words, their half orc or half elf specific bonus supercedes the basic human one.</p>
<p>if those favored class bonuses were Elven or Orc, and there were no half orc or half elf specific bonuses, I would allow them to pick from either.</p>
<p>I am interested on an official ruling as well.</p>Interesting question, can't believe I missed this topic until now. I think what I will allow is a half orc or half elf may take the human favored class bonus for their class if they choose ONLY if there is no half elf or half orc choice - in other words, their half orc or half elf specific bonus supercedes the basic human one.
if those favored class bonuses were Elven or Orc, and there were no half orc or half elf specific bonuses, I would allow them to pick from either.
I am interested on...Jess Door2010-08-12T17:45:06ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesZurai (alias of William Senn)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#732010-08-12T17:39:24Z2010-08-12T17:39:24Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Enevhar Aldarion wrote:</div><blockquote> Like I said before, or maybe I didn't (too many posts now), I did not see anywhere in the Core Pathfinder RPG Book an explanation of what "effect" means in this sentence: Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race. So show me a quote from the Core Book, or an official clarification post on these forums, of what "effect" means in this sentence and you win. </blockquote><p>So in other words, what you're saying is that "Any effect related to race" does <b>not</b> mean "taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on" because that's not in the Core Rulebook or on the forums?Enevhar Aldarion wrote:Like I said before, or maybe I didn't (too many posts now), I did not see anywhere in the Core Pathfinder RPG Book an explanation of what "effect" means in this sentence: Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race. So show me a quote from the Core Book, or an official clarification post on these forums, of what "effect" means in this sentence and you win.
So in other words, what you're saying is that "Any effect related to race"...Zurai (alias of William Senn)2010-08-12T17:39:24ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesEnevhar Aldarionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#722010-08-12T17:33:57Z2010-08-12T17:33:08Z<p>Like I said before, or maybe I didn't (too many posts now), I did not see anywhere in the Core Pathfinder RPG Book an explanation of what "effect" means in this sentence: Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race. So show me a quote from the Core Book, or an official clarification post on these forums, of what "effect" means in this sentence and you win.</p>Like I said before, or maybe I didn't (too many posts now), I did not see anywhere in the Core Pathfinder RPG Book an explanation of what "effect" means in this sentence: Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race. So show me a quote from the Core Book, or an official clarification post on these forums, of what "effect" means in this sentence and you win.Enevhar Aldarion2010-08-12T17:33:08ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesZurai (alias of William Senn)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#712010-08-12T17:27:35Z2010-08-12T17:27:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">StabbittyDoom wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Zurai wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Enevhar Aldarion wrote:</div><blockquote>So if Paizo is changing the rules so that effect means the same as what that feat says, they need to come in here and post. </blockquote>Why would they need to come in here and post? <b>The feat explicitly says that racial traits are an effect related to race</b>. Furthermore, I submit that this is <b>not a change</b>, but the way it was always intended to work, because Paizo changed no rules in the APG. </blockquote>Yeah, I think it means "Character traits that require a race". As-in the stuff in chapter 8 (APG), not the stuff in chapter 1 (APG). </blockquote><p>Which is all I've been saying. I've pretty much stayed out of the favored class debate because I don't care which way the cookie crumbles on that. I keep running into people saying stuff like, "Well, half-elves can't take elf racial traits, so..." or, "The favored class options are listed by race and include half-races, so obviously... [despite the fact that racial traits are also listed by race and include half-races]". That's what I've been arguing about. I can see both RAI and RAW justifications for both sides of the favored class debate, but racial traits are absolutely crystal clear IMO that they're allowed for half-races both RAI and RAW.StabbittyDoom wrote:Zurai wrote: Enevhar Aldarion wrote:So if Paizo is changing the rules so that effect means the same as what that feat says, they need to come in here and post.
Why would they need to come in here and post? The feat explicitly says that racial traits are an effect related to race. Furthermore, I submit that this is not a change, but the way it was always intended to work, because Paizo changed no rules in the APG. Yeah, I think it means "Character traits that require a...Zurai (alias of William Senn)2010-08-12T17:27:35ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesStabbittyDoomhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#702010-08-12T17:23:46Z2010-08-12T17:23:46Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zurai wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Enevhar Aldarion wrote:</div><blockquote>So if Paizo is changing the rules so that effect means the same as what that feat says, they need to come in here and post. </blockquote>Why would they need to come in here and post? <b>The feat explicitly says that racial traits are an effect related to race</b>. Furthermore, I submit that this is <b>not a change</b>, but the way it was always intended to work, because Paizo changed no rules in the APG. </blockquote><p>Yeah, I think it means "Character traits that require a race". As-in the stuff in chapter 8 (APG), not the stuff in chapter 1 (APG).Zurai wrote:Enevhar Aldarion wrote:So if Paizo is changing the rules so that effect means the same as what that feat says, they need to come in here and post.
Why would they need to come in here and post? The feat explicitly says that racial traits are an effect related to race. Furthermore, I submit that this is not a change, but the way it was always intended to work, because Paizo changed no rules in the APG. Yeah, I think it means "Character traits that require a race". As-in the stuff...StabbittyDoom2010-08-12T17:23:46ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesKortzhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#692010-08-12T17:21:27Z2010-08-12T17:21:27Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zurai wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Kortz wrote:</div><blockquote>Do you really think that they meant for Half Elves to have the racial favored class options of three races and that they hid that information in imprecise wording in the Feats chapter of the book? Is this what you believe? </blockquote><p>Do you really believe that the feat which says "any effects related to race, which as an example includes racial traits" means that the racial feature which says "any effects related to race" does <i>not</i> include racial traits?
<p>Because that's what I was talking about. I'm not sure where you're rambling off to, because it has pretty much nothing to do with my post. </blockquote><p>I thought this was about whether or not a Half Elf Sorcerer could take the Human favored class option.
<p>If we're not talking about favored class options but racial traits, then you do have more of an argument even though I think that was not the intent.</p>
<p>I'll probably just wait for one of the developers to return to chime in before I add (or subtract) anything else to the discussion.</p>Zurai wrote:Kortz wrote:Do you really think that they meant for Half Elves to have the racial favored class options of three races and that they hid that information in imprecise wording in the Feats chapter of the book? Is this what you believe?
Do you really believe that the feat which says "any effects related to race, which as an example includes racial traits" means that the racial feature which says "any effects related to race" does not include racial traits? Because that's what I was...Kortz2010-08-12T17:21:27ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesZurai (alias of William Senn)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#682010-08-12T17:21:32Z2010-08-12T17:21:24Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Enevhar Aldarion wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Zurai wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Enevhar Aldarion wrote:</div><blockquote>So if Paizo is changing the rules so that effect means the same as what that feat says, they need to come in here and post. </blockquote>Why would they need to come in here and post? <b>The feat explicitly says that racial traits are an effect related to race</b>. </blockquote>Maybe because wording in an optional feat is not the same as standard and basic rules. </blockquote><p>Actually, the wording <b>is</b> precisely the same. The "For example" text is just that, an <i>example</i>, not rules text. Examples <i>do not change the rules</i>. They let us know the intent of the rules.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">MundinIronHand wrote:</div><blockquote>If they wanted halfbreeds to be able to pick and choose they would have said so</blockquote><p>If they wanted halfbreeds to be able to pick and choose racial traits they would have said so ... oh wait, they didn't, but they obviously <i>did</i> intend that.Enevhar Aldarion wrote:Zurai wrote: Enevhar Aldarion wrote:So if Paizo is changing the rules so that effect means the same as what that feat says, they need to come in here and post.
Why would they need to come in here and post? The feat explicitly says that racial traits are an effect related to race. Maybe because wording in an optional feat is not the same as standard and basic rules. Actually, the wording is precisely the same. The "For example" text is just that, an example, not rules...Zurai (alias of William Senn)2010-08-12T17:21:24ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesEnevhar Aldarionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#672010-08-12T17:16:23Z2010-08-12T17:16:23Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Zurai wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Enevhar Aldarion wrote:</div><blockquote>So if Paizo is changing the rules so that effect means the same as what that feat says, they need to come in here and post. </blockquote>Why would they need to come in here and post? <b>The feat explicitly says that racial traits are an effect related to race</b>. </blockquote><p>Maybe because wording in an optional feat is not the same as standard and basic rules.Zurai wrote:Enevhar Aldarion wrote:So if Paizo is changing the rules so that effect means the same as what that feat says, they need to come in here and post.
Why would they need to come in here and post? The feat explicitly says that racial traits are an effect related to race. Maybe because wording in an optional feat is not the same as standard and basic rules.Enevhar Aldarion2010-08-12T17:16:23ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Half humans and Racial Favored ClassesMundinIronHandhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l5d1&page=2?Half-humans-and-Racial-Favored-Classes#662010-08-12T17:14:34Z2010-08-12T17:14:34Z<p>If they wanted halfbreeds to be able to pick and choose they would have said so. Pick a half elf, you get to choose from the half elf list, plain and simple, we all know it was meant that way but some poepl want what others have and will bend wording to make sure they can get a slight edge.</p>If they wanted halfbreeds to be able to pick and choose they would have said so. Pick a half elf, you get to choose from the half elf list, plain and simple, we all know it was meant that way but some poepl want what others have and will bend wording to make sure they can get a slight edge.MundinIronHand2010-08-12T17:14:34Z