Hirelings, Shaking Things Up, and Praise


Kingmaker


I just had our first session of Kingmaker, and it was met with great enthusiasm from all my players. It got us all role playing, and one of the members of our group who usually begins play with nothing more than a weapon and a name, put a lot of effort into crafting his character and their backstory. So first off I guess I just want to say that this is a really good start to the adventure and this is a GREAT setting, I can't wait to see how it unfolds.

Also breaking the mold, one of my player's is playing a noble and has a hireling following him around. Now I have never had a hireling in any game I have played in, however I really can't abide by having an NPC who is with the group for a length and not flesh them out. I was thinking over why someone would want to be a hireling, and I realized that they are people who go on adventures but stay out of the danger, get paid for essentially being another pair of hands and strong shoulders, and who decided to do this line of work over more down to earth employment. So the traits that came to me was someone who is greedy, opportunistic, clever, and a bit lazy(as in why do work for a month when this lot will let pay me a month's wages to hold a torch for em?).

This has brought me to the conclusion that as my players start to build the kingdom and as it draws attention, he is going to get offered money to spy on them. Personally I see that this could work out very well, and I would start slowly adding levels of rogue(or possibly bard) to him in secret while the players are developing their nation.

So a question I have is well... is this a dick move? I am really going for just a fun campaign overall, and I am not sure if going at them sideways like that may be crossing some kind of line. I had a similar circumstance where I gave a player in a different campaign a list of some npcs they knew that could work as his cohort, and he picked a villain who was hiding in plain sight.

So any comments or suggestions are welcome(as is just overall Kingmaker advice)

Oh and one last bit of praise I wanted to add on, I am running an Obsidian Portal for this campaign, and was inspired to write the Adventure Log entirely in person as an NPC who is with the party, and is chronicling them. So this campaign inspired me to start writing again... for me personally, that is some of the highest praise I think I think I will ever give, So thanks Pathfinder.


Personally, I would not make it guaranteed that he will do it. I do not think it is a dick move to do. I would wait and see how the players treat him. I mean, if they are paying him a lot, give him a position of authority, and generally treat him well, why would he want to betray this cash cow? It may be easy money, but it destroys it in the future. On the other hand, he may just be that dumb and only look at short term gains. If he is, play him up as that dumb well before he starts spying, so its not like you are springing something on the players. They may decide he is an issue long before he really is one.


I agree that the prior experience, alignment and circumstances all should influence the hireling's reaction when approached to become a spy. I don't agree that someone who chooses this as a profession is predisposed to becoming a spy. You can just as easily insert a spy some other way, e.g. a captain of the guard, the local barkeep, a court jester.

Additionally, the PCs should be given plenty of opportunity to observe changes in behavior and influence the NPC. If he is picking up Bard levels, you could offer something like "NPC seems to easily influence the merchant on price over the supplies," or "NPC appears to have picked up some measure of skill with the blade," etc. The PCs will be spending a lot of time with this NPC and because of that proximity I think the expectation that they would not notice a change in this NPC is unrealistic.


those are good points. I will definitely take those things into account, try to make it more fluid rather than a scripted event.

what I am thinking is that depending on how players treat him, he would be more willing to give information on him, and for every step away from his alignment(N) he is willing to give some information about the nation itself that could be vital(army size, defense weaknesses), and later on those could give bonuses and penalties to the mass combat sections.

If one of the player's really mistreats him then he will give enough information about them that an assassin can be sent(they feel secure enough in the risk). If the player manages to kill the assassin, then they would discover documents detailing his routine and habits in the hireling's handwriting...


Gallifrey wrote:

those are good points. I will definitely take those things into account, try to make it more fluid rather than a scripted event.

what I am thinking is that depending on how players treat him, he would be more willing to give information on him, and for every step away from his alignment(N) he is willing to give some information about the nation itself that could be vital(army size, defense weaknesses), and later on those could give bonuses and penalties to the mass combat sections.

If one of the player's really mistreats him then he will give enough information about them that an assassin can be sent(they feel secure enough in the risk). If the player manages to kill the assassin, then they would discover documents detailing his routine and habits in the hireling's handwriting...

Another thing to be aware of is that this hireling- the first one the player's ever had- betray them, there is a good chance that a few of the players (not the characters) will never get a hireing again. I've had quite a few players who completely mistrust any type of long term NPC's because of a past betrayal. I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't do it, just be aware that it could have some long term consequences.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

Abbasax wrote:
Gallifrey wrote:

those are good points. I will definitely take those things into account, try to make it more fluid rather than a scripted event.

what I am thinking is that depending on how players treat him, he would be more willing to give information on him, and for every step away from his alignment(N) he is willing to give some information about the nation itself that could be vital(army size, defense weaknesses), and later on those could give bonuses and penalties to the mass combat sections.

If one of the player's really mistreats him then he will give enough information about them that an assassin can be sent(they feel secure enough in the risk). If the player manages to kill the assassin, then they would discover documents detailing his routine and habits in the hireling's handwriting...

Another thing to be aware of is that this hireling- the first one the player's ever had- betray them, there is a good chance that a few of the players (not the characters) will never get a hireing again. I've had quite a few players who completely mistrust any type of long term NPC's because of a past betrayal. I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't do it, just be aware that it could have some long term consequences.

+1

I very strongly agree with Abbasax's points.


hmm you are correct there... well I guess I will just see how things go over the future, personally my guess is that things will end poorly for the hireling anyway("Message for you, sir!") and if I still feel like shaking things up with a spy I could introduce someone new or possibly change up one of the other npcs they are surrounded by


to quote pendragon..
a mere banneret knight is expected to haul along the following:

himself, 2 squires, 2 pages. 9 steeds: 2 warhorses, 3 riding horses, 1 spare horse, 2 ponies, 1 sumpter
+
3 hosehold knights, 1 squire each. 12 steeds: 3 chargers, 6 riding horses, 3 sumpters
+
4 servants (herald, messenger, cook and assistant cook). 6 Steeds: 4 riding horses, 2 pack horses
+
the knightbannerets wife, with 3 maidservants and 4 pages. 9 steeds required: 4 palfreys, 1 spare palfrey, 4 ponies
+
wifes 4 servants (2 butlers!, 2 grooms). 6 steeds required: 4 riding horses, 2 packhorses
+
children(2)+nanny. 3 steeds required: 1 palfrey, 2 ponies

Total: 30 people, 45 horses and ponies

A king should expect a bare minimum of 100 people in their entourage, including a mere 15 knights and the appropriate servants and auxiliaries. A welldoing king should expect triple the amount, and at war... ow dear...
Its like a small city travelling around.

Naturally, the other players should also have their own 80 or so people entourages, for a grand total of 500+ for mere informal adventuring.. 300+80+80+80


such as,

100 knights, war 10 +platemail, sword, lance, shield
120 squires, war 5 +chainmail, spear, sword, possibly xbow
200 various servants, personal, heralds, chefs..
(and easily over 800 horses, packing everything from hundreds of tents to treasury)

= 3 consumption
(as per equipment and arms)

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