Dead Gods?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


So with a dead god, do Clerics or Inquisitors get spells or are they boned if they worship Aroden?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Joey Virtue wrote:
So with a dead god, do Clerics or Inquisitors get spells or are they boned if they worship Aroden?

Clerics do not receive spells if they worship a dead god. Not sure off the top of my head if the same holds true for inquisitors.


boned, his clerics have no ability at all. As you must have a god to be a cleric then yes if your god dies your screwed unless ya find a new one.

Edit: Ninjaed by James

Liberty's Edge

Most clerics of Aroden switched over to worshipping Iomedae if I recall correctly. Some remained, without spells of course. I would imagine quite a few others migrated to either Abadar or Asmodeus.

Shadow Lodge

The Pathfinder Wiki is great for questions like this and usually does a good job of back referencing.

Here is what it says on clerics of Aroden.

Quote:
Most of Aroden's followers have become clerics of Iomedae, his greatest servant, who is one of the few mortals of Golarion to travel through the Starstone and gain divinity herself.[7] Those few who do stay true to the Last Azlanti have been left without divine power, sometimes resorting to mimicking true clerical ability with magic items. They preside over crumbling temples, many of which have been taken over by other religions, most prominently that of Iomedae.[2]


James Jacobs wrote:
Joey Virtue wrote:
So with a dead god, do Clerics or Inquisitors get spells or are they boned if they worship Aroden?
Clerics do not receive spells if they worship a dead god. Not sure off the top of my head if the same holds true for inquisitors.

Bummer our Inquisitor wants knowledge and didnt really dig Iori who else has knowlege

Phantasma, Calista and Iori any else?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Joey Virtue wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Joey Virtue wrote:
So with a dead god, do Clerics or Inquisitors get spells or are they boned if they worship Aroden?
Clerics do not receive spells if they worship a dead god. Not sure off the top of my head if the same holds true for inquisitors.

Bummer our Inquisitor wants knowledge and didnt really dig Iori who else has knowlege

Phantasma, Calista and Iori any else?

Brigh, Nethys, Sivanah, Yuelral


Joey Virtue wrote:


Bummer our Inquisitor wants knowledge and didnt really dig Iori who else has knowlege

Phantasma, Calista and Iori any else?

Nethys, norgorber as well

Shadow Lodge

Joey Virtue wrote:
Phantasma, Calista and Iori any else?

Phantasma :D Is she the god of illusion? :D

Dark Archive

Joey Virtue wrote:

Bummer our Inquisitor wants knowledge and didnt really dig Iori who else has knowlege

Pharasma, Calistria and Irori any else?

Nethys, magic and destruction

Sivanah, illusion and trickery
Norgorber, murder, poisoners, intrigue

from Gods & Magic
Brigh, goddess of invention and clockwork
Yuelral, elven goddess of magic, crystal and jewelers

from the Campaign setting (p 173)
Archdevil Mephistopheles (contracts and secrets)
Demon Lord Abraxas (magic and forbidden lore)
Demon Lord Kabriri (graves and ghouls)
Empyrreal Lord Andoletta (consolation, respect, security)
Daemon Horseman Charon (death)


It seems to me that a cleric of a dead god might still have spells memorized, that were granted to him before he died, but now can never be replaced (barring pearls of power or some similar magic.)

So there's this priest of Aroden wandering around, with one spell left. One thing he can cast, if he ever finds the right target for it...

The spell? Miracle


A different take: faith, itself, powers a cleric's spells.

Just don't let CJ see this. :)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

tonyz wrote:

It seems to me that a cleric of a dead god might still have spells memorized, that were granted to him before he died, but now can never be replaced (barring pearls of power or some similar magic.)

So there's this priest of Aroden wandering around, with one spell left. One thing he can cast, if he ever finds the right target for it...

The spell? Miracle

1) Nope; when a god dies, the spells granted to his/her clerics vanish.

2) Aroden died over 100 years ago. Even if prepared spells DID stay ready to go, chances are good any cleric that's been around for that long has cast all their spells.

Scarab Sages

Not related to divine spell casting, but a character can use magic items that have the requirement of patron deities.

In Gods and Magic book:
There is an Azlant Pendant that has an awesome effect if your patron diety is Aroden.

I think this may work in the same way as Masks of the Living God. He doesn't give them the spellcasting abilities, but his masks require you to worship him in order to be able to unlock their full potential.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

James Jacobs wrote:
tonyz wrote:

It seems to me that a cleric of a dead god might still have spells memorized, that were granted to him before he died, but now can never be replaced (barring pearls of power or some similar magic.)

So there's this priest of Aroden wandering around, with one spell left. One thing he can cast, if he ever finds the right target for it...

The spell? Miracle

1) Nope; when a god dies, the spells granted to his/her clerics vanish.

2) Aroden died over 100 years ago. Even if prepared spells DID stay ready to go, chances are good any cleric that's been around for that long has cast all their spells.

1) Spoilsport :P (Human cleric of Aroden + Temporal Stasis + 1 miracle left = "In case of deicide, break glass")

2) In that other game there was an example or two, Baneliches received a spark of Bane's essense when he went boom. That Which Abides had some of his spark left in his high priest's rapier and punch dagger in the Scarred lands.
So Golarion gods can't invest their essense in items long term/permanently? Really makes Daemon's nasty. "I'm having a deicide buffett!"

Liberty's Edge Contributor

Does this mean that, in Golarion, there are no clerics without a deity (i.e., per the Core Rules, which are admittedly setting non-specific)?

Is it possible that a cleric with a strong enough devotion to the ideals of Aroden might be able to manifest spells and powers associated with the domains the Last Azlanti held dear, even if he or she is not drawing them directly from the dead god?

I realize that allowing a devotee of Aroden to simply choose two domains from Aroden's list would blunt the impact of the god's death. I'm just curious about the rules implications.


Paris Crenshaw wrote:

Does this mean that, in Golarion, there are no clerics without a deity (i.e., per the Core Rules, which are admittedly setting non-specific)?

Yes in Golarion you must have a god, godless clerics do not exist. Oracles are the ones who do not need a god, clerics always must have a god.

If ya sit and think about it godless clerics change the setting totally as some nations would not exist as they currently do. The same goes for vast parts of the history. If faith alone could power you Arodens church would still be active.

Dark Archive

Paris Crenshaw wrote:
Does this mean that, in Golarion, there are no clerics without a deity (i.e., per the Core Rules, which are admittedly setting non-specific)?

Yup. Razmiran, Rahadoum and the Kalistocracy of Druma would be very different places if diety-less Clerics existed in the setting.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Deidre Tiriel wrote:

Not related to divine spell casting, but a character can use magic items that have the requirement of patron deities.

In Gods and Magic book:
There is an Azlant Pendant that has an awesome effect if your patron diety is Aroden.

I think this may work in the same way as Masks of the Living God. He doesn't give them the spellcasting abilities, but his masks require you to worship him in order to be able to unlock their full potential.

You don't have to be a cleric to have a patron deity. And having a patron deity does not equate to being a cleric.

The item from Gods and Magic works regardless of whether you're a cleric or not, provided you view Aroden as your patron.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Matthew Morris wrote:

2) In that other game there was an example or two, Baneliches received a spark of Bane's essense when he went boom. That Which Abides had some of his spark left in his high priest's rapier and punch dagger in the Scarred lands.

So Golarion gods can't invest their essense in items long term/permanently? Really makes Daemon's nasty. "I'm having a deicide buffett!"

Deities in Golarion work different than they do in the Forgotten Realms or the Scarred Lands. There ARE ways for deities to guard against death, and I'm sure Aroden took measures... but he died anyway.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Paris Crenshaw wrote:
Does this mean that, in Golarion, there are no clerics without a deity (i.e., per the Core Rules, which are admittedly setting non-specific)?

That's exactly what that means.

Paris Crenshaw wrote:
Is it possible that a cleric with a strong enough devotion to the ideals of Aroden might be able to manifest spells and powers associated with the domains the Last Azlanti held dear, even if he or she is not drawing them directly from the dead god?

Nope. An oracle might be able to, but a cleric could not.

Paris Crenshaw wrote:
I realize that allowing a devotee of Aroden to simply choose two domains from Aroden's list would blunt the impact of the god's death. I'm just curious about the rules implications.

The rules could handle it. The world could not; we have several elements in Golarion that fundamentally assume that in order for a cleric to gain spells he has to worship a deity capable of granting those spells to him. Druids or oracles are the class to look at in Golarion if you're interested in a divine spellcaster who gains their spells and powers not from a deity but from other faith venues.

Liberty's Edge Contributor

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

Yes in Golarion you must have a god, godless clerics do not exist. Oracles are the ones who do not need a god, clerics always must have a god.

If ya sit and think about it godless clerics change the setting totally as some nations would not exist as they currently do. The same goes for vast parts of the history. If faith alone could power you Arodens church would still be active.

Set" wrote:
Yup. Razmiran, Rahadoum and the Kalistocracy of Druma would be very different places if diety-less Clerics existed in the setting.

That makes perfect sense, and is pretty much what I thought. The OP's question just brought the thought to mind and I don't remember ever seeing that specifically stated. Thanks, guys.


Can you imagine the turmoil a group of oracles could cause if they claimed to be priests of Aroden while concealing their true selves and went around attempting to use their divine powers as proof that Aroden was still alive? I wonder how long it would take before certain other deities sent their agents after this group?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
Can you imagine the turmoil a group of oracles could cause if they claimed to be priests of Aroden while concealing their true selves and went around attempting to use their divine powers as proof that Aroden was still alive? I wonder how long it would take before certain other deities sent their agents after this group?

That's what the other divine base class is for...

Spoiler:
No one expects the Chelish Inquisition!

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

James Jacobs wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:

2) In that other game there was an example or two, Baneliches received a spark of Bane's essense when he went boom. That Which Abides had some of his spark left in his high priest's rapier and punch dagger in the Scarred lands.

So Golarion gods can't invest their essense in items long term/permanently? Really makes Daemon's nasty. "I'm having a deicide buffett!"
Deities in Golarion work different than they do in the Forgotten Realms or the Scarred Lands. There ARE ways for deities to guard against death, and I'm sure Aroden took measures... but he died anyway.

*nods* Thus 'that other game' reference. I should have phrased it differently. If a god makes a relic. (say the codpiece of Aroden) and puts some if his um, essence (ok the codpiece was a bad example) into it to make it an artifact. On his death, is it still a magic item or just a fashion accessory?

Liberty's Edge Contributor

Matthew Morris wrote:
Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
Can you imagine the turmoil a group of oracles could cause if they claimed to be priests of Aroden while concealing their true selves and went around attempting to use their divine powers as proof that Aroden was still alive? I wonder how long it would take before certain other deities sent their agents after this group?

That's what the other divine base class is for...

** spoiler omitted **

Actually, I would rather expect Cheliax to have an Inquisitor or two in their employ. What I wouldn't expect would be an Inquisitor of Shelyn...although an Inquisitor of Calistria might be entertaining... ;p

[ahem] That aside, I wonder if the powers that bestow their "gifts" on the oracles would appreciate being misrepresented as Aroden's reborn spirit. "Hmmm...you thought blindness was bad? We've got a few other choice afflictions for you, then..." ;)

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