Subdomains and Non-clerics


Rules Questions

The Exchange

8 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Would subdomains be available to all characters that have access to domains? Specifically, does an inquisitor have the option of taking a subdomain, or does a Sacred Servant Paladin/Inquisitor/Druid without animal companion have the option to take a subdomain with the domain options that they have?

Sovereign Court

I guess it could go either way. I look to the alternate domains that are allowed to the new Druid builds and none of them are subdomains. That either means that they list options by the domain and you can then select the subdomain from there, or you can only take the RAW domain if you're not a cleric.

Liberty's Edge

Rob at Hero Lab said in a thread over there that he was told that Druids and Inquisitors do not have access to sub-domains.


I guess Jason was quoted at GenCon as saying that only clerics get the sub-domain option. So no joy for Druids or Inquisitors on that one.


Thazar wrote:
I guess Jason was quoted at GenCon as saying that only clerics get the sub-domain option. So no joy for Druids or Inquisitors on that one.

Hrrmmm.....

Well if that's the case, I guess we have our first house rule for APG.

I don't see any reason they shouldn't be available to other classes.
Depending on the setting your playing, some of the sub-domains make better fits for some gods anyway.

Shadow Lodge

nighttree wrote:

Hrrmmm.....

Well if that's the case, I guess we have our first house rule for APG.

I don't see any reason they shouldn't be available to other classes.

I don't have the book yet, but personally, I think it would be nice to finaly have something that is Cleric only.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Yeah, I assumed Subdomains were Cleric-only, since they make up the entirety of the "Cleric" chapter. Otherwise, what does the Cleric get that's just for the Cleric?


nighttree wrote:

.

I don't see any reason they shouldn't be available to other classes.
Depending on the setting your playing, some of the sub-domains make better fits for some gods anyway.

The druids get all there Archtypes the Inquisitor is a new class and has all kinds of bells and whistles let the Cleric Get somthing that is just for the cleric

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

In the Rise of the Runelords game I am starting, I am letting my inquisitor player use them. I see no reason why not.

Dark Archive

I would assume that sub-domains are only available to Clerics. This understanding is because it is in the Cleric section of the alternate class features. Druids and Inquisitors can't take sub-domains becuase nothing says they can. Subdomains are defined as "more specific focuses for clerical worship and power". Further, later in the same paragraph (pg 86), it keeps saying things like "A cleric who chooses a subdomain..." and "If a cleric chooses a subdomain...". This leads me to believe they are cleric-only. And I think it is better off this way. Like Joey Virtue said, it is nice to see something that is just for the Cleric.

Liberty's Edge

Shar Tahl wrote:
In the Rise of the Runelords game I am starting, I am letting my inquisitor player use them. I see no reason why not.

Do you let the Clerics have the Inquisitor's judgement ability?

Shadow Lodge

Domains were also listed under the cleric section in the core rulebook, were they not? And yet other classes could gain them.

Also, what happens when you have a Cleric/Inquisitor multiclass with subdomain choices? Does this allow them to have three domains as opposed to two? If the Cleric levels were for "Growth" do the Inquisitor levels count towards "Plant" ?

Liberty's Edge

Varthanna wrote:
Domains were also listed under the cleric section in the core rulebook, were they not? And yet other classes could gain them.

Yes, but they are domains and not sub-domains.

Quote:
Also, what happens when you have a Cleric/Inquisitor multiclass with subdomain choices? Does this allow them to have three domains as opposed to two? If the Cleric levels were for "Growth" do the Inquisitor levels count towards "Plant" ?

Do Cleric/Inquisitors get three domains? I don't know; I've never thought about it. But, if they do, I'd say that the two for Cleric can be sub-domains but the one for Inquisitor must be a domain. (And all under the same god, I would assume.)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Kortz wrote:
Varthanna wrote:
Domains were also listed under the cleric section in the core rulebook, were they not? And yet other classes could gain them.

Yes, but they are domains and not sub-domains.

Quote:
Also, what happens when you have a Cleric/Inquisitor multiclass with subdomain choices? Does this allow them to have three domains as opposed to two? If the Cleric levels were for "Growth" do the Inquisitor levels count towards "Plant" ?
Do Cleric/Inquisitors get three domains? I don't know; I've never thought about it. But, if they do, I'd say that the two for Cleric can be sub-domains but the one for Inquisitor must be a domain. (And all under the same god, I would assume.)

Clerics/Inquisitors must have one domain that is in common to both theier Cleric and Inquisitor. If the Cleric is first and includes two subdomains, this is impossible.

Shadow Lodge

Sorry, let me clarify:

Inquisitor wrote:
If the inquisitor has cleric levels, one of her two domain selections must be the same domain selected as an inquisitor. Levels of cleric and inquisitor stack for the purpose of determining domain powers and abilities, but not for bonus spells.

What happens if the cleric has two subdomains, which Inquisitors supposedly cant use? I dont think it should just be "impossible", there needs to be some mechanic in place to resolve the issue.

Liberty's Edge

Varthanna wrote:

Sorry, let me clarify:

Inquisitor wrote:
If the inquisitor has cleric levels, one of her two domain selections must be the same domain selected as an inquisitor. Levels of cleric and inquisitor stack for the purpose of determining domain powers and abilities, but not for bonus spells.
What happens if the cleric has two subdomains, which Inquisitors supposedly cant use? I dont think it should just be "impossible", there needs to be some mechanic in place to resolve the issue.

From the APG:

If the inquisitor
has cleric levels, one of her two domain selections must
be the same domain selected as an inquisitor. Levels of
cleric and inquisitor stack for the purpose of determining
domain powers and abilities, but not for bonus spells.

So, I think the question is: If the Cleric/Inquisitor has two subdomains, do the levels of Inquisitor stack with the Cleric for the purposes of one of the sub-domain abilities?

I doubt it.

But this doesn't stop a two-subdomain Cleric from taking levels of Inquisitor. I think it just makes those levels of Inquisitor irrelevant when it comes to determining the power of domain abilities.

The simple solution, of course, is to take at least one regular domain if you plan to add levels of Inquisitor.


Kortz wrote:
Rob at Hero Lab said in a thread over there that he was told that Druids and Inquisitors do not have access to sub-domains.

Despite the fact the decay subdomain is a perfect fit for a blight archetype druid?

If this is the case it is an example of a good idea in the APG that hasn't been thought through and a blow against common sense!

Liberty's Edge

Skullking wrote:
Kortz wrote:
Rob at Hero Lab said in a thread over there that he was told that Druids and Inquisitors do not have access to sub-domains.

Despite the fact the decay subdomain is a perfect fit for a blight archetype druid?

If this is the case it is an example of a good idea in the APG that hasn't been thought through and a blow against common sense!

Yeah, I'd agree that it is intuitive that other classes should have access to some of the sub-domains. But it also might be intuitive that some styles of Cleric would have access to Inquisitor abilities or Druid spells/abilities.

I think limiting sub-domains to Clerics is an attempt to keep the classes distinctive and give Clerics something of their own.

Shadow Lodge

All this really means is that in Society games, only clerics get sub-domains.

Dark Archive

Varthanna wrote:
Domains were also listed under the cleric section in the core rulebook, were they not? And yet other classes could gain them.

Yes, but that is because other classes specifically stated that they could get them. There is nothing specifically stating that non-Clerics can get subdomains.

Shadow Lodge

Hey, I'm all for Clerics getting some APG goodness like all the other classes and Sub-Domains for anyone with Domains. But I don't tink they will be rewritting the book for me. :)

Dark Archive

Beckett wrote:
I don't have the book yet, but personally, I think it would be nice to finaly have something that is Cleric only.

+1

Dark Archive

Beckett wrote:

Hey, I'm all for Clerics getting some APG goodness like all the other classes and Sub-Domains for anyone with Domains. But I don't tink they will be rewritting the book for me. :)

Welcome back Beckett!

You were in boot camp, right? I know it was something military related.

Shadow Lodge

I actually still am (combat medic) and thank you. It is good to be back. Very interested in what has been going on since I left. Anything cool I might have missed?


Beckett wrote:
I actually still am (combat medic) and thank you. It is good to be back. Very interested in what has been going on since I left. Anything cool I might have missed?

Couple of threads got closed down due to Summoner whining, you know the usual stuff!

Shadow Lodge

stuart haffenden wrote:
Beckett wrote:
I actually still am (combat medic) and thank you. It is good to be back. Very interested in what has been going on since I left. Anything cool I might have missed?
Couple of threads got closed down due to Summoner whining, you know the usual stuff!

Summoner whining, ha ha. <apologies for the thread hijack>

I'm waiting on Adventured Armory, Orcs of Golarion, Gnomes or Golarion, Faction Guide, and fiction to come in. Anthing else that you guys suggest I look at?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Beckett wrote:
stuart haffenden wrote:
Beckett wrote:
I actually still am (combat medic) and thank you. It is good to be back. Very interested in what has been going on since I left. Anything cool I might have missed?
Couple of threads got closed down due to Summoner whining, you know the usual stuff!

Summoner whining, ha ha. <apologies for the thread hijack>

I'm waiting on Adventured Armory, Orcs of Golarion, Gnomes or Golarion, Faction Guide, and fiction to come in. Anthing else that you guys suggest I look at?

*cough* Advanced Player's Guide *cough*. It has a full BAB heavy armor Cleric PrC, you gonna like that one :)

Shadow Lodge

I have the PDF. Sorry, I am looking at the Holy Vindicator and not realy sure what to think. Not that it is bad, mind you. Just kind of wish that they would have given more possible options to fit different concepts. But interesting still and I would say good job Paizo. Reminds me a lot of a blend of Book of Exalted Deeds/WarPriest/Ordained Champion. But, it is not at all Cleric exclusive. :(
On the other hand, it is a good PF version of a possible Knight of the Sword/Thorn for DL.
A few things I would have liked to have seen are alternate Clerics, like the scoundrel/noble priest that gets a bit more skills and tricks or things like a "urban" cleric that so many other classes get.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Ok I flagged this for FAQ, has this been answered any where?

Contributor

Added to APG FAQ.


Alizor wrote:
Would subdomains be available to all characters that have access to domains? Specifically, does an inquisitor have the option of taking a subdomain, or does a Sacred Servant Paladin/Inquisitor/Druid without animal companion have the option to take a subdomain with the domain options that they have?

So to close the discussion (and to save the time of those seeking an answer...) the FAQ says "YES, as long as the rule on page 86 is respected" (REFERENCE)

TheOnlySheet.com


I asked this question before, because I was wondering about the Sacred Servant Paladin...
I was told (I can't remember by who, but it was one of the developers) that druids/inquisitors etc could take subdomains, but Sacred Servants could not.
I was also told that I could houserule to let the Pally have it too if I want, it wouldn't make a big difference in terms of balance.
I can dig up the quote if you like...


Alizor wrote:
Would subdomains be available to all characters that have access to domains? Specifically, does an inquisitor have the option of taking a subdomain, or does a Sacred Servant Paladin/Inquisitor/Druid without animal companion have the option to take a subdomain with the domain options that they have?

The rule for subdomains and terrain domains, if I'm not mistaken, is this.

In order to qualify for a subdomain, you must worship a deity and that deity must specifically grant worshipers the subdomain in question. A character that does not worship a deity does not gain subdomains.

In order to qualify for animal / terrain domains, the character must have access to the Animal or Weather domain, as appropriate. If the character does not worship a deity, they can pick whatever domain they want. If they do worship a deity, the animal / terrain domain must correlate to the deity in question.

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