Compiled APG spoiler thread


Product Discussion

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I gotta say though, come to think of it, I don't like that shield fighter thing... the meaning of going with a shield, isn't delivering mounstruous damage with it, it's to be really good at defending your self, this doesn't acomplish, what I'm sure I'm gonna see are more 2 shields psychophants overdamaging real 2 weapon fighters... I don't like that...


Arcane duelist

Arcane Bond (Ex): At 5th level, an arcane duelist gains the arcane bond ability as a wizard, using a weapon as his bonded item. He may not choose a familiar or other type of bonded
item. He may use the hand holding his bonded weapon for somatic components. This ability replaces lore master.

Sczarni

Typelouder wrote:
Maybe Half orc racials :D

Mmm, Half-orcs.

Beastmaster gives us Nets and Whips as Martial weapons in place of orc ferocity. Chain Fighter replaces the weapon familiarity with flail/heavy flail prof and dire flails/spiked chains as Martial. Sacred Tattoo gives a +1 luck bonus to all saves instead of orc ferocity.

A handful of others. I like 'em.

Silver Crusade

off topic concerning attacking with two weapon and 3.5

Spoiler:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
Wolfthulhu wrote:

See, I don't think that's a legacy feature, so much as a legacy rules manipulation.

But I'm not going to argue my point further, that's not what this thread is for.

We'll see if you think of this the same way if you get disarmed/sundered by an AoO you triggered mid-full-attack and are disallowed from attacking with a weapon you just quick-drew as a replacement. (Specific, I know, but it can happen.)

This isn't the most staggering of "rules manipulations" (as you put it) as you cannot get more attacks from this, neither can you get more powerful attacks, all it lets you do is switch weapon if you find yourself without one or find that your current one is ineffective (i.e. steel vs DR/material, quickdraw a silver weapon to try that or slashing vs DR/bludgeoning).

Wrongo. Attacking with a second weapon always incurred penalties, regardless of which attack (first, second, etc). In fact it came up when dealing with dagger/dart throwers. The user could draw two daggers for example, throw one, then would have to switch hand (Which was declared a free action) and throw the second. He could not throw with his off-hand without incurring a penalty. I wont discuss anymore here, but would be happy to show up at another thread regarding this.


Thanks for spoilering that noretoc I would rather not see this thread become yet more rules arguments

Sovereign Court

seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Thanks for spoilering that noretoc I would rather not see this thread become yet more rules arguments

Same. I want more APG spoilers please though :)

The Exchange

seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Thanks for spoilering that noretoc I would rather not see this thread become yet more rules arguments

We've actually all come to terms and moved on. Best to just drop it or start a new thread.

Liberty's Edge

Wolfthulhu wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:
Wolfthulhu wrote:

See, I don't think that's a legacy feature, so much as a legacy rules manipulation.

But I'm not going to argue my point further, that's not what this thread is for.

We'll see if you think of this the same way if you get disarmed/sundered by an AoO you triggered mid-full-attack and are disallowed from attacking with a weapon you just quick-drew as a replacement. (Specific, I know, but it can happen.)

This isn't the most staggering of "rules manipulations" (as you put it) as you cannot get more attacks from this, neither can you get more powerful attacks, all it lets you do is switch weapon if you find yourself without one or find that your current one is ineffective (i.e. steel vs DR/material, quickdraw a silver weapon to try that or slashing vs DR/bludgeoning).
See, the difference is I'm ok with PCs (even my own) actually being at a disadvantage occasionally. You step back, shake it off and get back in the fight.

So if you had a BAB of 20/15/10/5 and attack a creature whose body rusted your weapon on the first attack, you WOULDN'T be pissed if the DM didn't let you punch it in the face thereafter? (AoO not withstanding)

I'm sorry, but in my opinion feats like Improved Unarmed Strike and Quick Draw exist partly to prevent players from having that "shake it off" moment.

Original Topic: I searched the whole PDF for the phrase "Dexterity bonus" and found only one reference to using it for damage, and that was for the crossbow fighter variant.
I do like the Mobile Fighter capstone though:

Quote:

Whirlwind Blitz (Ex): At 20th level, a mobile fighter can

make a full-attack action as a standard action. He may also
use the Whirlwind Attack feat as a standard action. This
ability replaces weapon mastery.


Post eaten.

Anyhow, come to think of it, I don't like the shield fighter thing. When a guy decides to go with shields it's because he wants to have more AC, not because he wants to be a massive damage dealer. What I think i'm gonna see because of it are more psicophants wanting to use 2 shields and actually being better than real 2 weapon fighters... I don't like that at all.

Without magic with a large shield and all focused on it, it would be: +11 attack and +13 damage at high level... that's... A LOT. Not adding str either, just flat bonuses...

The Exchange

Typelouder wrote:
Not to just be a pain but whats going on for Paladins ... not the anti paladin stuff but more alternate abilities ect. Thanks :D

PF Paladins are another class I'm not real familiar with, so I'm not sure what the big ones are.

However the Sacred Servant varient gets this Wall of Text power:

Quote:

Divine Bond (Su): At 5th level, instead of forming a divine bond with her weapon or a mount, a sacred servant forms a bond with her holy symbol. As a standard action, a sacred servant can bind a celestial spirit to her holy symbol for 1 minute per paladin level. When called, the spirit causes the sacred servant’s holy symbol to shed light like a torch. At 5th level, the spirit grants one bonus. For every three levels beyond 5th, the spirit grants one additional bonus. These bonuses can be spent in a number of ways to grant the paladin enhanced abilities to channel positive energy and to cast spells. Each bonus can be used to grant one of the following enhancements: +1 caster level to any paladin spell cast, +1 to the DC to halve the damage of channel positive energy when used to harm undead, +1d6 to channel positive energy, +1 use/day of lay on hands. These enhancements stack and can be selected multiple times. The enhancements granted by the spirit are determined when the spirit is called and cannot be changed until the spirit is called again. If the sacred servant increases her number of uses of lay on hands per day in this way, that choice is set for the rest of the day, and once used, these additional uses are not restored (even if the spirit is called again that day). The celestial spirit imparts no enhancements if the holy symbol is held by anyone other than the sacred servant, but resumes giving enhancements if returned to the sacred servant. A sacred servant can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every four levels beyond 5th, to a total of four times per day at 17th level.

If a holy symbol with a celestial spirit is destroyed, the sacred servant loses the use of this ability for 30 days, or until she gains a level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the sacred servant takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.


wakedown wrote:
There's other goodies too for readying actions to interrupt spellcasting (i.e. the DC for the check goes up by +4 if someone has the feat).

Why would they need it?

The DC is already going to be beyond what the caster can manage (DC = 10+ damage taken + spell level) unless the attacker rolls absolutely minimum damage in most cases.

The Exchange

StabbittyDoom wrote:

So if you had a BAB of 20/15/10/5 and attack a creature whose body rusted your weapon on the first attack, you WOULDN'T be pissed if the DM didn't let you punch it in the face thereafter? (AoO not withstanding)

I'm sorry, but in my opinion feats like Improved Unarmed Strike and Quick Draw exist partly to prevent players from having that "shake it off" moment.

No clue what you're talking about. This thread is for discussing the awesome new APG.


Wolfthulhu wrote:
Typelouder wrote:
Not to just be a pain but whats going on for Paladins ... not the anti paladin stuff but more alternate abilities ect. Thanks :D

PF Paladins are another class I'm not real familiar with, so I'm not sure what the big ones are.

However the Sacred Servant varient gets this Wall of Text power:

Quote:

Divine Bond (Su): At 5th level, instead of forming a divine bond with her weapon or a mount, a sacred servant forms a bond with her holy symbol. As a standard action, a sacred servant can bind a celestial spirit to her holy symbol for 1 minute per paladin level. When called, the spirit causes the sacred servant’s holy symbol to shed light like a torch. At 5th level, the spirit grants one bonus. For every three levels beyond 5th, the spirit grants one additional bonus. These bonuses can be spent in a number of ways to grant the paladin enhanced abilities to channel positive energy and to cast spells. Each bonus can be used to grant one of the following enhancements: +1 caster level to any paladin spell cast, +1 to the DC to halve the damage of channel positive energy when used to harm undead, +1d6 to channel positive energy, +1 use/day of lay on hands. These enhancements stack and can be selected multiple times. The enhancements granted by the spirit are determined when the spirit is called and cannot be changed until the spirit is called again. If the sacred servant increases her number of uses of lay on hands per day in this way, that choice is set for the rest of the day, and once used, these additional uses are not restored (even if the spirit is called again that day). The celestial spirit imparts no enhancements if the holy symbol is held by anyone other than the sacred servant, but resumes giving enhancements if returned to the sacred servant. A sacred servant can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every four levels beyond 5th, to a total of four times per day at 17th level.

If a holy symbol with a celestial spirit is destroyed, the
...

Pretty cool... can I get the undead slayer one please? Some barbarian goodies also?


Still don't have mine, which I am ok with really I am, so what new Alchemist stuff is out there

The Exchange

Abraham spalding wrote:
wakedown wrote:
There's other goodies too for readying actions to interrupt spellcasting (i.e. the DC for the check goes up by +4 if someone has the feat).

Why would they need it?

The DC is already going to be beyond what the caster can manage (DC = 10+ damage taken + spell level) unless the attacker rolls absolutely minimum damage in most cases.

The Wizards new Counterspell School is nice too.

Quote:

Counterspell Mastery (Su): At 6th level, you gain

Improved Counterspell as a bonus feat. You may attempt
to counterspell an opponent’s spell once per day as an
immediate action (instead of a readied action). You must
use a spell at least one level higher than the spell being
countered to use this ability. You can use this ability once
per day at 6th level, plus one additional time per day for
every 4 levels beyond 6th.

I have a friend who has wanted to play a counterspelling mage in 3.5 for years. This may be what I need to get him to try out Pathfinder.

Liberty's Edge

Wolfthulhu wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:

So if you had a BAB of 20/15/10/5 and attack a creature whose body rusted your weapon on the first attack, you WOULDN'T be pissed if the DM didn't let you punch it in the face thereafter? (AoO not withstanding)

I'm sorry, but in my opinion feats like Improved Unarmed Strike and Quick Draw exist partly to prevent players from having that "shake it off" moment.
No clue what you're talking about. This thread is for discussing the awesome new APG.

Wow, what a "clever" way to disregard someone's argument entirely.

Now that you've proved yourself a person not worth arguing with, I'll continue with the APG spoilers:

Quote:

Aspect of the Ki-Rin: The monk’s skin takes on a golden

luminescence, and a silvery mane that cannot be bound
grows atop his head. He gains a fly speed equal to his
land speed, but he must end each turn on the ground.
If the monk does not land by the end of his turn, he
falls from whatever height he has attained. The ki-rin is
honorable, honest, and self-sacrificing—a monk must be
lawful good to take on the aspect of the ki-rin.

Something DBZ this way comes...

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This thread is awesome!!!

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Hey I was kinda wanting a tiny bit of info on the oracle so I guess I have a few things I'm interested

Human Oracle Favored class option: same thing as Human Sorcerer Favored Class Option?

Do Oracles still have all cure spells automatically added to their spells known list as they did in the second part of the beta?

Please someone spoil a little bit of the Life Mystery for me.

Finally any oracle specific feats? That'd be delicious and interesting.


Please, please... undead slayer... and some barbarian goodies...


This thread is fantastic. I've preordered a book from my local gaming bookstore (if you are in Erie, PA check out Books Galore) but they respect street dates (which is for the best I suppose...) and the anticipation may be doing me physical harm.

So how about the drunken master? My alchemist/monk version of a Drunken Master died and I'm hoping to replace him- what's the varient like?

Also: how does the shapeshifing ranger look? Can I combine the Brutal Pugilist and the Drunken Brute barbarians together?

The Exchange

Xum wrote:
Pretty cool... can I get the undead slayer one please? Some barbarian goodies also?

Undead Scourge.

Quote:

Undead Annihilation (Su): At 11th level, an undead

scourge can expend one use of her smite evil ability as a
standard action and make a single melee attack against an
undead creature. If this attack hits, the undead creature
must make a Will save or be destroyed. The save DC is
equal to 10 + 1/2 the undead scourge’s level + the undead
scourge’s Charisma modifier. Undead with twice as
many Hit Dice as the undead scourge are unaffected by
this ability. If the attack misses, the smite evil is wasted
without effect. This ability replaces aura of justice.

Barbarian... hmm, what looks juicy? A couple of Rgae powers.

Quote:

Hurling Charge (Ex): While raging and making a charge

attack, the barbarian may draw and throw a hurled weapon
during her charge, gaining the normal +2 attack roll bonus
on the thrown weapon attack as well as on the melee attack
at the end of the charge. The barbarian must move at least 10
feet before using a thrown weapon and at least 10 additional
feet before making a melee attack at the end of her charge. The
barbarian must have a thrown weapon in hand or have one
hand free at the beginning of her charge. A barbarian must
have the lesser hurling rage power to select this rage power. A
barbarian must be at least 6th level to select this rage power.

Come and Get Me (Ex): While raging, as a free action the
barbarian may leave herself open to attack while preparing
devastating counterattacks. Enemies gain a +4 bonus on
attack and damage rolls against the barbarian until the
beginning of her next turn, but every attack against the
barbarian provokes an attack of opportunity from her, which
is resolved prior to resolving each enemy attack. A barbarian
must be at least 12th level to select this rage power.

Liberty's Edge

Oracle Spoiler (Revelation from Life mystery):

Quote:

Channel (Su): You can channel positive energy like a cleric,

using your oracle level as your effective cleric level when
determining the amount of damage healed (or caused to
undead) and the DC. You can use this ability a number of
times per day equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier.

Barbarian Spoiler (new Rage Power):

Quote:

Ground Breaker (Ex): Once per rage, the barbarian can

attack the floor around her as a standard action. This attack
automatically hits and deals damage normally. If the barbarian
manages to deal more damage than the floor’s hardness,
the space she occupies and all of the squares adjacent to her
become difficult terrain. Creatures in these squares, except the
barbarian, must make a DC 15 Reflex save or be knocked prone.
A barbarian must be at least 6th level to select this rage power.


StabbittyDoom wrote:
Aspect of the Ki-Rin

When would a monk get this? And what archetype is it from? it's awesome.

The Exchange

MinstrelintheGallery wrote:

So how about the drunken master? My alchemist/monk version of a Drunken Master died and I'm hoping to replace him- what's the varient like?

Also: how does the shapeshifing ranger look? Can I combine the Brutal Pugilist and the Drunken Brute barbarians together?

Last question first. No.
APG, Alternate Class Features wrote:
When a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features found in the Core Rulebook or those listed in one of the archetypes presented here.

It's all or nothing.

The Shapeshifting Ranger looks interesting:

Quote:

Shifter’s Blessing (Su): At 3rd level, the shapeshifter

can take on the aspects of a wild creature once per day as a
swift action. He can remain in this form for a number of
rounds equal to his ranger level + his Wisdom modifier.
While in one of his shifter’s blessing forms, the ranger
gains the shapeshifter subtype.
Smaple Form:
Quote:

Form of the Bear: The ranger’s muscles enlarge and

tighten, and his facial features become more ursine.
While in this form, the ranger gains a +4 enhancement
bonus to Strength, but his base speed becomes 20 feet.

At higher levels you can add different forms so you can change to bear form, then otter form or jackal.

Drunken Master... Hmm.

Quote:

Firewater Breath (Su): At 19th level, a drunken master

can take a drink and expel a gout of alcohol-fueled fire
in a 30-foot cone. Creatures within the cone take 20d6
points of fire damage. A successful Ref lex saving throw
(DC 10 + 1/2 the monk’s level + the monk’s Wis modifier)
halves the damage. Using this ability is a standard action
that consumes 4 ki points from the monk’s ki pool. The
monk must have at least 1 drunken ki point to use this
ability. This ability replaces empty body.

:-D


Were there changes made to the Oracle elemental capstones so they don't blow? For reference, originally they let you apply still, silent, & extend to spells of the given elemental subtype.

Liberty's Edge

Peter Stewart wrote:
Were there changes made to the Oracle elemental capstones so they don't blow? For reference, originally they let you apply still, silent, & extend to spells of the given elemental subtype.

No, but they did add several elemental spells and added(?) a line that say you do not need the metamagic feat to apply it in that case.

Quote:

Fiery Body

School transmutation [fire]; Level sorcerer/wizard 9
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 minute/level
This spell transforms your body into living flame. You and your
equipment are immune to fire damage. In fact, every time you
would normally take damage from fire, you are instead healed
of damage at a rate of 1 point per 3 points of damage the
fire attack would have normally inflicted. You are immune to
blindness, critical hits, ability score damage, deafness, disease,
drowning, electricity, poison, stunning, and all spells that affect
your physiology or respiration. You take only half damage from
acid or electricity. You take 150% as much damage from cold
than normal.
You gain a +6 enhancement bonus to your Dexterity score
and a fly speed of 40 ft. (perfect maneuverability). Your unarmed
attack deals an additional 3d6 points of fire damage, and you are
considered armed when making unarmed attacks. Your body
burns so brightly that creatures who do not avert their gaze
from you are dazzled. Fire spells you cast have their save DCs
increased by +1. If you enter water, you are surrounded by a
5-foot radius of steam and bubbles that grant you concealment
(50% miss chance) but you take 2d6 points of damage each
round you remain in water.


Thanks for the quick response! Are any of the wizard sub schools related to summoning?


Wolfthulhu wrote:
MinstrelintheGallery wrote:

So how about the drunken master? My alchemist/monk version of a Drunken Master died and I'm hoping to replace him- what's the varient like?

Also: how does the shapeshifing ranger look? Can I combine the Brutal Pugilist and the Drunken Brute barbarians together?

Last question first. No.
APG, Alternate Class Features wrote:
When a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features found in the Core Rulebook or those listed in one of the archetypes presented here.
It's all or nothing.

Your quote there doesn't say what you seem to think it says, and Paizo has already said (in one of the preview threads) that you can take two different Archetypes as long as they don't replace the same class feature (which they mostly do, but there are some Archetypes that don't overlap).


Wolfthulhu wrote:
Last question first. No.

Really? Because the preview page (the one that lists the archetypes) says you can take as many archetypes as you want as long as they don't modify or replace the same abilities. I was hope those two were compatible. i guess they aren't. Darn.

Wolfthulhu wrote:

Form of the Bear: The ranger’s muscles enlarge and

tighten, and his facial features become more ursine.
While in this form, the ranger gains a +4 enhancement
bonus to Strength, but his base speed becomes 20 feet.

So it isn't exactly wildshape, it gives you hybrids.

Wolfthulhu wrote:

Firewater Breath (Su): At 19th level, a drunken master

can take a drink and expel a gout of alcohol-fueled fire
in a 30-foot cone. Creatures within the cone take 20d6
points of fire damage. A successful Ref lex saving throw
(DC 10 + 1/2 the monk’s level + the monk’s Wis modifier)
halves the damage. Using this ability is a standard action
that consumes 4 ki points from the monk’s ki pool. The
monk must have at least 1 drunken ki point to use this
ability. This ability replaces empty body.

Awesome. I'd trade empty body for that any day. any powers the drunken master gives sooner? Any ways to make a decent archer rogue?

The Exchange

StabbittyDoom wrote:

Wow, what a "clever" way to disregard someone's argument entirely.

Now that you've proved yourself a person not worth arguing with...

Spoiler:
Wow, nameless person on the internet trying to annoy me. Sorry, I have thicker skin than that. The very fact that you claim to be 'looking for an argument', tells me all I need to know.

The reason I blew off your post is because the good folks in this thread aren't interested in seeing a troll fight. It's called courtesy. We can bicker another day in another thread.

The Exchange

Zurai wrote:
Wolfthulhu wrote:
MinstrelintheGallery wrote:

So how about the drunken master? My alchemist/monk version of a Drunken Master died and I'm hoping to replace him- what's the varient like?

Also: how does the shapeshifing ranger look? Can I combine the Brutal Pugilist and the Drunken Brute barbarians together?

Last question first. No.
APG, Alternate Class Features wrote:
When a character selects a class, he must choose to use the standard class features found in the Core Rulebook or those listed in one of the archetypes presented here.
It's all or nothing.
Your quote there doesn't say what you seem to think it says, and Paizo has already said (in one of the preview threads) that you can take two different Archetypes as long as they don't replace the same class feature (which they mostly do, but there are some Archetypes that don't overlap).

I assumed he was asking if he could take one ability from one variant and another from a different one and 'piecemeal' something together. I probably misunderstood his question.

The Exchange

Need to go buy some dogfood before the mutt eats my leg or something. Back later with more.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You knew just what to spoil me with. Thanks StabbittyDoom.


I'm glad that there will be a healer to rival the cleric, up until now, the other options were kinda weak. (at healing)

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

Not to restart any argument about shield fighters, but:

1. For those worried the shield fighter is all offense... it's not. Most of their abilities are high-defense, both for themselves and allies, but they do have a few offensive tricks.

2. The wording of the contentious ability is intended to explicate swapping between main weapon and shield attacks because:

a. There are somewhat ambiguous references in the Core Rulebook that suggest that shield bash can ONLY be made as off-hand weapon attacks, so that any shield bash by definition would be off-hand. With this ability, it's not.

b. The Core Rules don't specify (as 3.5 sorta-kinda did) that you could trade off between weapons. With this ability, it does.

c. As a side, note, though, I should have phrased it a little differently to specifically state that you using the shield-weapon alternate attacks is not compatible with TWF. Why? Well...

Spoiler:
Here's the ability text:

Shield Fighter (Ex): At 5th level, a shielded fighter gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when making a shield bash. These bonuses increase by +1 every four levels beyond 5th. With a full attack action, a shielded fighter may alternate between using his weapon or his shield for each attack. This action does not grant additional attacks or incur penalties as two-weapon fighting does. This ability replaces weapon training 1.

Now, the intent of this ability is to let weapon & shield guys be able to do their regular attacks and be able to swap between whacking somebody with their sword and bashing with their shield. So, our 6th level fighter, for instance, has attacks at +6/+1. He could do both with sword, both with shield, or one of each. Fighter guy with shield can slash OR bash without having a lot of deep investment.

Here's the sticky part:

Let's say our enterprising fighter takes TWF and IpvTWF. Now, he would normally have four attacks at +6/+1 sword and +6/+1 shield. Except this fighter, using the Shield Fighter ability as written (with a slightly liberal reading), could instead take all four attacks with his best weapon. This saves him a ton on improving his gear (just make one beefy weapon instead of two for TWF), obviates the lesser damage for off-hand attacks, etc.

Yes, he has to spend 2 feats and devote stat points to DEX instead of STR, so it's not a total win, but it still looks awfully cheesy if you take it that way.

Does this need to get fixed?

As a suggestion, I might rephrase it as something like this:

Shield Fighter (Ex): At 5th level, a shielded fighter gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when making a shield bash. These bonuses increase by +1 every four levels beyond 5th. With a full attack action, a shielded fighter may alternate between using his weapon or his shield for each iterative attack. This action does not grant additional attacks or incur penalties as two-weapon fighting does, but it cannot be used in conjunction with two-weapon fighting. This ability replaces weapon training 1.

Cuts the cheese without having to go through a lot of permutations. Sorry I didn't catch this when I was writing it in the first place, but sometimes you miss an angle until you reread it a few months later with fresh eyes and say, "Hey, wait a minute..."


Some of the new metamagic feats are actually (dare I say it?) useful.

Quote:

Bouncing Spell (Metamagic)

You can direct a failed spell against a different target.

Benefit: Whenever a bouncing spell targeting a single
creature has no effect on its intended target (whether due
to spell resistance or a successful saving throw) you may,
as a swift action, redirect it to target another eligible
creature within range. The redirected spell behaves in
all ways as if its new target were the original target for
the spell. Spells that affect a target in any way (including
a lesser effect from a successful saving throw) may not
be redirected in this manner. A bouncing spell uses up a
spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.

Not bad for just +1 level higher!


Bouncing spell...good for save or dies, or save or sucks...too bad it won't work for disintegrate.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
hogarth wrote:

Some of the new metamagic feats are actually (dare I say it?) useful.

Quote:

Bouncing Spell (Metamagic)

You can direct a failed spell against a different target.

Benefit: Whenever a bouncing spell targeting a single
creature has no effect on its intended target (whether due
to spell resistance or a successful saving throw) you may,
as a swift action, redirect it to target another eligible
creature within range. The redirected spell behaves in
all ways as if its new target were the original target for
the spell. Spells that affect a target in any way (including
a lesser effect from a successful saving throw) may not
be redirected in this manner. A bouncing spell uses up a
spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.

Not bad for just +1 level higher!

O.O Hawt....

The Exchange

MinstrelintheGallery wrote:
Wolfthulhu wrote:
Last question first. No.

Really? Because the preview page (the one that lists the archetypes) says you can take as many archetypes as you want as long as they don't modify or replace the same abilities. I was hope those two were compatible. i guess they aren't. Darn.

Wolfthulhu wrote:

Form of the Bear: The ranger’s muscles enlarge and

tighten, and his facial features become more ursine.
While in this form, the ranger gains a +4 enhancement
bonus to Strength, but his base speed becomes 20 feet.

So it isn't exactly wildshape, it gives you hybrids.

Wolfthulhu wrote:

Firewater Breath (Su): At 19th level, a drunken master

can take a drink and expel a gout of alcohol-fueled fire
in a 30-foot cone. Creatures within the cone take 20d6
points of fire damage. A successful Ref lex saving throw
(DC 10 + 1/2 the monk’s level + the monk’s Wis modifier)
halves the damage. Using this ability is a standard action
that consumes 4 ki points from the monk’s ki pool. The
monk must have at least 1 drunken ki point to use this
ability. This ability replaces empty body.
Awesome. I'd trade empty body for that any day. any powers the drunken master gives sooner? Any ways to make a decent archer rogue?

1) You actually can take both Brutal Pugilist and Drunken Brute, as they do not have overlapping changes, and as a taste of that:

APG pg 78 wrote:

Raging Drunk (Ex): While raging, the drunken brute

can drink a potion, or a tankard of ale or similar quantity
of alcohol, as a move action that does not provoke attacks
of opportunity. A potion has its normal effect, while an
alcoholic drink allows the barbarian to maintain her rage
that round without expending a round of rage for the day
(instead of the alcohol’s normal effects). For each alcoholic
drink consumed while raging, the barbarian is nauseated
for 1 round when her rage expires, in addition the normal
fatigue that follows a rage. Tireless rage does not negate
this nauseated condition but the internal fortitude rage
power does. This ability replaces fast movement

2) as for more drunken master, what about this:

APG pg 110 wrote:

Drunken Strength (Su): At 5th level, a drunken master

can spend 1 point of ki as a swift action to inf lict 1d6 extra
points of damage on a single successful melee attack. The
monk can choose to apply the damage after the attack roll
is made. At 10th level, the monk may spend 2 drunken ki
points to increase the extra damage to 2d6. At 15th level,
the monk may spend 3 drunken ki points to increase the
extra damage to 3d6. At 20th level, the monk may spend
4 drunken ki points to increase the extra damage to 4d6.
The monk must have at least 1 drunken ki point to use
this ability. This ability replaces purity of body

3) and for an archer rogue? How about we leave all of the archetype goodness and look at some magic items?

APG pg 309 wrote:

Sniper Goggles

Aura faint divination; CL 5th
Slot eyes; Price 20,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
The leather strap attached to these bulbous lenses allows their
wearer to fit them to his head. The wearer of these goggles can
make ranged sneak attacks from any distance instead of the
normal 30 feet. When making ranged sneak attacks within 30
feet, the wearer gains a +2 circumstance bonus on each sneak
attack damage die.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, true strike; Cost 10,000 gp

I gotta say, Paizo outdid themselves with the APG; good job guys!


MinstrelintheGallery wrote:
Any ways to make a decent archer rogue?

The sniper is the dedicated archer archetype for the rogue class. They exchange trapfinding for the ability to halve range penalties with bows or crossbows, and swap trap sense for the ability to increase the range at which they can sneak attack (+10 ft for every +1 to trap sense they would have gotten). There's also some rogue talents to help out, including one called snap shot that sets her initiative roll to a 20 during surprise rounds, but she can only make a ranged attack during that round.


What are the new prestige classes, I know there is the Stalwart Defender, Master Chymist, Master Spy and Battle Herald... what are the rest?


MinstrelintheGallery wrote:
Bouncing spell...good for save or dies, or save or sucks...too bad it won't work for disintegrate.

True but I would use it on bestow curse. That's a spell I've wanted to use more often but never have because of the high chance of waste.


A raging drunk with enough alcohol could rage all day!

Liberty's Edge

Wolfthulhu wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:

Wow, what a "clever" way to disregard someone's argument entirely.

Now that you've proved yourself a person not worth arguing with...

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Than instead of disregarding my counter-point, how about creating a thread about the rules issue at hand? In hind-sight I probably should have done so, but I didn't, so oh well.

Human favored class bonus option:

Quote:

Oracle: Add one spell known from the oracle spell list.

This spell must be at least one level below the highest
spell level the oracle can cast.


MinstrelintheGallery wrote:
What are the new prestige classes, I know there is the Stalwart Defender, Master Chymist, Master Spy and Battle Herald... what are the rest?

Battle herald: bard/cavalier multiclass.

Holy vindicator: paladin or cleric PrC who literally bleeds for his cause
Horizon walker: yes, it's back!
Master chymist: Jekyll/Hyde alchemist PrC - your mutagen form has its own identity and personality, and you don't necessarily get along...
Master spy: master of deceit and disguise
Nature warden: rangerish PrC that emphasizes the bond with the land rather than the combat styles
Rage prophet: oracle/barbarian multiclass (and my favorite)
Stalwart defender: dwarven defender redone, with some good battlefield control options


I like the battle herald concept, those classes wored well together.

The horizon walker and nature warden sound similar, but I'm so happy that the horizon walker is back, I've always wanted to play one.

Rage prophet.. that is... just so awesome.


Can you tell me about the archmage abilities that got turned into feats? My players and I have really been looking forward to hearing about these.

Thank you


The smitter wrote:
Still don't have mine, which I am ok with really I am, so what new Alchemist stuff is out there

Three words: Extra Discovery feat!


MinstrelintheGallery wrote:
The horizon walker and nature warden sound similar, but I'm so happy that the horizon walker is back, I've always wanted to play one.

Horizon walker has all the old favored terrain stuff, which obviously builds off of the ranger's favored terrains, but that's really about it. The nature warden not only has some favored terrain elements but also strengthens the tie between the character and the animal companion, as well as the more mundane "ties to the natural world" aspects, such as the ability to turn an improvised weapon or tool into a masterwork weapon or tool with a minute's work.

MinstrelintheGallery wrote:
Rage prophet.. that is... just so awesome.

Yeah, yeah it is. You get bonuses for casting while in a rage via the moment of clarity rage power, as well as the ability to heal or self-buff without having to even use the moment of clarity power...

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