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I would appreciate a specific answer in relation to 2.2.
The GM has a level 4 ranger. He is running a tier 1-5 scenario of a party of 6 player with a APL of 3 (rounded up). According to 2.2 this would mean the APL can be 4. At the end of the scenario, the GM can award his level 4 character with a tier 4-5 sheet.
Is this correct?
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I would appreciate a specific answer in relation to 2.2.
The GM has a level 4 ranger. He is running a tier 1-5 scenario of a party of 6 player with a APL of 3 (rounded up). According to 2.2 this would mean the APL can be 4. At the end of the scenario, the GM can award his level 4 character with a tier 4-5 sheet.
Is this correct?
Yes it is
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Is this correct?
It is correct, however it seems like you are arriving at the correct answer in an incorrect way. The APL you ran it at has nothing to do with the tier you claim your reward for. Unless I'm misreading your intent in the post. Hope this helps:
The tier most appropriate for a GM’s character is determined as follows: Bob is a GM and he has a level 1 rogue. If Bob runs a sub-Tier 1–2 scenario, he takes the sub-Tier 1–2 chronicle sheet for his level 1 rogue. If Bob runs a Tier 1–5 or Tier 1–7 scenario in any sub-tier other than 1–2, he still takes a sub-Tier 1–2 chronicle sheet (so if he ran it in sub-Tier 4–5 or sub-Tier 6–7, for example, he would take a sub-Tier 1–2 chronicle sheet). If Bob runs any higher Tier scenarios that don’t include a sub-Tier for his level 1 rogue, he can take the lowest sub-Tier chronicle sheet from that scenario and hold it for his PC. Then, once his PC achieves the appropriate level for that
chronicle sheet, it is immediately applied.
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Is this correct?It is correct, however it seems like you are arriving at the correct answer in an incorrect way. The APL you ran it at has nothing to do with the tier you claim your reward for. Unless I'm misreading your intent in the post. Hope this helps:
The tier most appropriate for a GM’s character is determined as follows: Bob is a GM and he has a level 1 rogue. If Bob runs a sub-Tier 1–2 scenario, he takes the sub-Tier 1–2 chronicle sheet for his level 1 rogue. If Bob runs a Tier 1–5 or Tier 1–7 scenario in any sub-tier other than 1–2, he still takes a sub-Tier 1–2 chronicle sheet (so if he ran it in sub-Tier 4–5 or sub-Tier 6–7, for example, he would take a sub-Tier 1–2 chronicle sheet). If Bob runs any higher Tier scenarios that don’t include a sub-Tier for his level 1 rogue, he can take the lowest sub-Tier chronicle sheet from that scenario and hold it for his PC. Then, once his PC achieves the appropriate level for that
chronicle sheet, it is immediately applied.
Thanks to all who responded.
Zizazat, I can not see how my answer was incorrect. I according to the rules that you cut and pasted it appears your suggestion is incorrect. GMs do not choose what tier they get awarded for the character they pick.
The rules basically state that you must take a the tier that matches the GM nominated character or the lowest tier sheet. If the GM nominated character is lower level than the tier he was awarded, the GM must wait until the character make the appropriate level to get the scenario sheet.
What I don't 'like' around the current wording is what happens when you run a scenario with a APL that means the tier of the scenario is lower than the nominate character level. It is not clearly spelled out in my mind.
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What Zizazat was getting at is that the APL of the table has nothing to do with the tier that you're GM character gets the chronicle sheet for. You can run a 1-7 mod at tier 6-7 and give your level 1 the credit. You however, are only going to get credit for tier 1-2 since that is the level of your character.
Your GM credit can only be w/in the tier that you normally would be able to play (not counting the table playing up)
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Thanks for the feedback. I understand that example as it is the one that is quoted. I thought the APL of the table was important.
So if I understand you correctly I could be running tier 1-5 scenario with an APL of 1 and I could get credit for any character like a 4th level ranger or an 8th level paladin?
This is seriously confusing.
So if I understand you correctly I could be running tier 1-5 scenario with an APL of 1 and I could get credit for any character like a 4th level ranger or an 8th level paladin?This is seriously confusing.
No, you could get credit for any character from levels 1-5, just like the tier says. The tier is relevant, but the party's level isn't.
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Thanks for the feedback. I understand that example as it is the one that is quoted. I thought the APL of the table was important.
So if I understand you correctly I could be running tier 1-5 scenario with an APL of 1 and I could get credit for any character like a 4th level ranger or an 8th level paladin?
This is seriously confusing.
Your character has to be able to play the module basically, so in your example, yes your level 4 ranger could get credit, but your level 8 paladin could not as he is to high of level to play the module.
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According to 2.2 this is how it works.
1. Every module gives you GM credit the first time you run it.
2. You cannot take credit until your character is eligible to play in the appropriate tier, and you may not apply credit if the character is too high a level for that module.
For example:
You get credit for Tier 1-5 and 1-7 adventures as long as your character is levels 1-5. You get credit for 1-7 and 5-9 adventures as long as your character is leveled 5-7. If your character is too low of a level, you must put off getting credit until he/she is eligible.
3. Regarding sub-tiers you must ALWAYS take XP at the lowest sub-tier at which your character can play.
For example:
If your character is level 1 and you run a group playing at tier 6-7, you take a chronicle sheet for yourself and indicate tier 1-2. If your character is level 5 and your party plays at tier 4-5, you get the tier 4-5 rewards. If your character is in between tiers, you must take the chronicle sheet for the lower sub-tier. So if you're level 3 and the party plays at 4-5, you will take a 1-2 sheet.
Does that make sense?
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Zizazat, I can not see how my answer was incorrect. I according to the rules that you cut and pasted it appears your suggestion is incorrect. GMs do not choose what tier they get awarded for the character they pick.
My original reply got eaten by the system...sigh.
Everyone else has pretty well crystallized this but my original intent was to clarify your decision making process. What I was trying to point out based on your original post is that while you arrived at the correct destination (level 4 GM character gets sub-tier 3-4 chronicle) you did so by the wrong route (APL was 4). APL (sub-tier run) doesn't factor in. The GM character you are applying the reward to and the tier of the module run are the factors.
GM runs sub-tier 1-2 will apply a 3-4 chronicle to his level 4 character.
GM runs sub-tier 4-5 will apply a 4-5 chronicle to his level 4 character.
GM runs sub-tier 5-6 will wait to apply a 5-6 chronicle to his level 4 character when it reaches 5th.
GM runs sub-tier 1-2 with a level 8 character should have/create a 2nd character to apply a chronicle to :)
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Zizazat, I can not see how my answer was incorrect. I according to the rules that you cut and pasted it appears your suggestion is incorrect. GMs do not choose what tier they get awarded for the character they pick.
My original reply got eaten by the system...sigh.
Everyone else has pretty well crystallized this but my original intent was to clarify your decision making process. What I was trying to point out based on your original post is that while you arrived at the correct destination (level 4 GM character gets sub-tier 3-4 chronicle) you did so by the wrong route (APL was 4). APL (sub-tier run) doesn't factor in. The GM character you are applying the reward to and the tier of the module run are the factors.
GM runs sub-tier 1-2 will apply a 3-4 chronicle to his level 4 character.
GM runs sub-tier 4-5 will apply a 4-5 chronicle to his level 4 character.
GM runs sub-tier 5-6 will wait to apply a 5-6 chronicle to his level 4 character when it reaches 5th.
GM runs sub-tier 1-2 with a level 8 character should have/create a 2nd character to apply a chronicle to :)
Sorry but you are incorrect on this one (except for the last point; fully agree with that one :) ).
The tier that the GM runs the mod at the table has absolutely nothing to do with the tier that his character gets credit for.
His character gets credit for whatever tier he would be eligible to play, ie, level 1 gets credit for tier 1-2, level 3 gets credit for tier 3-4, etc.
If his character is in-between tiers, ie he is level 5 and the mod had tiers 3-4 and 6-7, he must take the lower tier (3-4).
If he does not have a character eligible to play any of the tiers because it is too low level then he gets a chronicle sheet for the lowest tier and applies it to his character whenever it finally levels up to be eligible to play that mod.
If he does not have a character eligible to play any of the tiers because he is too high level, than he needs to make a new guy!
The problem with what the Guide says and what people are posting as the correct way is that the Guide gives no rules at all about taking a chronicle sheet when you do not have a character of a low enough level to fit any of the sub-tiers the scenario being run offers.
Basically, we have specific rules in the Guide that says which chronicle sheet to take if your character's level falls within the range of the levels covered by the scenario. And we have specific rules as to which chronicle sheet to take if your character's level is below the level range covered by the scenario. And we have specific rules for what to do when your character's level is in between sub-tiers of a scenario.
What we do not have in the Guide, and what people seem to just be assuming, is that if all your characters are of a level higher than what is covered by the scenario, that you either have to make a new character to apply the chronicle sheet to or you do not get a sheet at all. I am sure that I have seen Josh post before that this is not true and, as an example, if your only character is 7th level and you run a tier 1-5 scenario, that you can still give a chronicle sheet from that scenario to your character even though you are penalizing yourself somewhat because of the inferior treasure buying list you will get with the sheet.
Again, the Guide does not say one way or the other what to do in this last situation, so until I can find Josh's post I think I am remembering or until someone can find an opposing post from Josh, we will need to wait for an official reply to this. Hopefully, this will also be taken care of in the next version of the Guide.
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Again, the Guide does not say one way or the other what to do in this last situation, so until I can find Josh's post I think I am remembering or until someone can find an opposing post from Josh, we will need to wait for an official reply to this. Hopefully, this will also be taken care of in the next version of the Guide.
Since the GM character is ineligible to 'play' the mod in your example, I don't see how he would be awarded a chronicle.
Again, the Guide does not say one way or the other what to do in this last situation, so until I can find Josh's post I think I am remembering or until someone can find an opposing post from Josh, we will need to wait for an official reply to this. Hopefully, this will also be taken care of in the next version of the Guide.Since the GM character is ineligible to 'play' the mod in your example, I don't see how he would be awarded a chronicle.
Because it does not specifically say one way or the other in the GM rewards section of the Guide.
Let's put it another way, I could be GMing scenarios and, between running and playing, I am trying to get a character to 12th level and I only want one active character. So, as an example, if my only character is 8th level and I run a tier 1-5 scenario, I would have to either make a new character for the chronicle sheet or get no reward at all? That is stupid and would make me much less likely to ever run anything that has a top tier below the level of my active character. Josh wants more people to run games, not less, and if this really is the rule then it needs to be changed.
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Because it does not specifically say one way or the other in the GM rewards section of the Guide.
Let's put it another way, I could be GMing scenarios and, between running and playing, I am trying to get a character to 12th level and I only want one active character. So, as an example, if my only character is 8th level and I run a tier 1-5 scenario, I would have to either make a new character for the chronicle sheet or get no reward at all? That is stupid and would make me much less likely to ever run anything that has a top tier below the level of my active character. Josh wants more people to run games, not less, and if this really is the rule then it needs to be changed.
Like I said, I don't think it needs to be explicitly pointed out as the character would not be eligible. But that's my opinion.
And in your example, I'm about to get into the same boat. My PC is about to hit 6th and probably be 7th coming out of Gen Con. I'm starting a 2nd character after the APG is legal and any XP that can't go to my main character will go there. That's not making me want to run any fewer games. That's a matter of personal preference I guess.
To put it another way, I guess I wouldn't want that low tier gold and XP 'eating up' a spot for my main PC on the way up to 12.
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Again, the Guide does not say one way or the other what to do in this last situation, so until I can find Josh's post I think I am remembering or until someone can find an opposing post from Josh, we will need to wait for an official reply to this. Hopefully, this will also be taken care of in the next version of the Guide.Since the GM character is ineligible to 'play' the mod in your example, I don't see how he would be awarded a chronicle.Because it does not specifically say one way or the other in the GM rewards section of the Guide.
Let's put it another way, I could be GMing scenarios and, between running and playing, I am trying to get a character to 12th level and I only want one active character. So, as an example, if my only character is 8th level and I run a tier 1-5 scenario, I would have to either make a new character for the chronicle sheet or get no reward at all? That is stupid and would make me much less likely to ever run anything that has a top tier below the level of my active character. Josh wants more people to run games, not less, and if this really is the rule then it needs to be changed.
A couple of things to think about:
Again, you are gimping your character if you give an 8th level character a level 4 chronicle sheet, as the gold is going to be waaaay below what he should be getting, which will affect his capabilities from that point on.
You will only be able to play that character with either GMs who do not do character audits, or GMs from your local group, as any other GM is likely to consider your character illegal according to Society rules, as he will have played a game he was not eligible for.
From the Guide:
Playing: Tiers are a level restriction for play.
DM Rewards: 100% of the max gold for the tier most appropriate to the GM’s character (see below)
For a level 8 character, there is NO tier appropriate to the character, in any module which does NOT include level 8 in its tiering.
Also, if you are GMing for level 1-5 characters, it means that you are going to find it difficult to play your level 8 character in a real game as a player, since no one is appropriate tier to play with him...
Ergo:
The only reason not to start a second PC, to take those lower tier rewards, is because you are being an inefficient rules-lawyer.
According to the rules, a character cannot play in a game whose tier is too low for that character. A GM character is considered to have played the module, so he must have been of appropriate tier when the reward is applied to him. Anything else, other than the permitted chronicle delay, is going to create an illegal character.
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Thus, no, the character is NOT illegal in this case, because "Play, Play, Play" trumps normal eligibility rules and there's no good way to test for that.
I'll find the reference later, but I'm pretty certain it does not. Level limits and tier ranges are fixed. A level 8 character may not play in a tier 1-7 mod even under the guise of "Play, Play, Play". That player would play a level 4/7 pregen or 'roll' a new one.
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Thus, no, the character is NOT illegal in this case, because "Play, Play, Play" trumps normal eligibility rules and there's no good way to test for that.I'll find the reference later, but I'm pretty certain it does not. Level limits and tier ranges are fixed. A level 8 character may not play in a tier 1-7 mod even under the guise of "Play, Play, Play". That player would play a level 4/7 pregen or 'roll' a new one.
I'm of agreement with Z on this one .. it would end up as a pregen being played.
I guess my question to the one that started this thread is, what is wrong with making a new character? There is a wealth of class/race options.. Personally I have started trying to make random lvl 1 characters for my
GM credits so they are level 2 by the time I get to play them, but I enjoy playing my characters at the higher levels so I don't want to GM credit them to death and never really get to play them.
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I guess my question to the one that started this thread is, what is wrong with making a new character? There is a wealth of class/race options.. Personally I have started trying to make random lvl 1 characters for my GM credits so they are level 2 by the time I get to play them, but I enjoy playing my characters at the higher levels so I don't want to GM credit them to death and never really get to play them.
Amen sister! :D
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Thus, no, the character is NOT illegal in this case, because "Play, Play, Play" trumps normal eligibility rules and there's no good way to test for that.I'll find the reference later, but I'm pretty certain it does not. Level limits and tier ranges are fixed. A level 8 character may not play in a tier 1-7 mod even under the guise of "Play, Play, Play". That player would play a level 4/7 pregen or 'roll' a new one.I'm of agreement with Z on this one .. it would end up as a pregen being played.
I guess my question to the one that started this thread is, what is wrong with making a new character? There is a wealth of class/race options.. Personally I have started trying to make random lvl 1 characters for my
GM credits so they are level 2 by the time I get to play them, but I enjoy playing my characters at the higher levels so I don't want to GM credit them to death and never really get to play them.
Thanks for the reply.
Please do not make judgements of my motives. I am asking a mechanical question as there is not an example in 2.2 or specific ruling that is clear. To be honest, I just want to know as the section is written unclearly. It does not have an example or a rule for a higher level GM character.
I would also point out, contray to what people have stated in responses, that 2.2 clearly is related to the tier in which the scenario is run and therefore the APL as the APL determins the sub tier. GM gets the tier at which the adventure runs (I assume the sub tier) or if his character is lower level than that he gets the lowest sub tier. The GM character gets accredited the sheet once the character makes level.
I agree with you Thea and my own characters and record reflects this by the characters I have created, some of which are not listed up yet. I just want rule clarifity and ease of understanding. I don't want to get it wrong when I apply the GM awards to my characters.
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I would also point out, contray to what people have stated in responses, that 2.2 clearly is related to the tier in which the scenario is run and therefore the APL as the APL determins the sub tier. GM gets the tier at which the adventure runs (I assume the sub tier) or if his character is lower level than that he gets the lowest sub tier. The GM character gets accredited the sheet once the character makes level.
Clearly? Please cut/paste the clear text you refer to. Cause what I see is:
100% of the max gold for the tier most appropriate to the GM’s character (see below)
Not 100% of the max gold for the tier run, 100% of the max gold for the tier most appropriate to the GM's character. That means the two could be different.
The following wording makes it perfectly clear (to me) that if you reverse it, the rule still makes sense.
If Bob runs a sub-Tier 1–2 scenario, he takes the sub-Tier 1–2 chronicle sheet for his level 1 rogue. If Bob
runs a Tier 1–5 or Tier 1–7 scenario in any sub-tier other than 1–2, he still takes a sub-Tier 1–2 chronicle sheet (so if he ran it in sub-Tier 4–5 or sub-Tier 6–7, for example, he would take a sub-Tier 1–2 chronicle sheet). If Bob runs any higher Tier scenarios that don’t include a sub-Tier for his level 1 rogue, he can take the lowest sub-Tier chronicle sheet from that scenario and hold it for his PC.
Then, once his PC achieves the appropriate level for that chronicle sheet, it is immediately applied.
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Okay Z, I think I have it.
So I run scenario #3 (tier 1-5). I put up my 4th level ranger as my GM character. The APL is 2 with 4 players so you run tier 1-2 for the group. At the end of the adventure the GM gives the 4th level ranger 1XP, max gold for tier 4-5 on the sheet.
That right?
That's correct.
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That's correct.Okay Z, I think I have it.
So I run scenario #3 (tier 1-5). I put up my 4th level ranger as my GM character. The APL is 2 with 4 players so you run tier 1-2 for the group. At the end of the adventure the GM gives the 4th level ranger 1XP, max gold for tier 4-5 on the sheet.
That right?
+1
What we do not have in the Guide, and what people seem to just be assuming, is that if all your characters are of a level higher than what is covered by the scenario, that you either have to make a new character to apply the chronicle sheet to or you do not get a sheet at all. I am sure that I have seen Josh post before that this is not true and, as an example, if your only character is 7th level and you run a tier 1-5 scenario, that you can still give a chronicle sheet from that scenario to your character even though you are penalizing yourself somewhat because of the inferior treasure buying list you will get with the sheet.
Either would be correct. I'll clarify in 3.0.
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+1That's correct.Okay Z, I think I have it.
So I run scenario #3 (tier 1-5). I put up my 4th level ranger as my GM character. The APL is 2 with 4 players so you run tier 1-2 for the group. At the end of the adventure the GM gives the 4th level ranger 1XP, max gold for tier 4-5 on the sheet.
That right?
Yay! Thanks Z for your persistance. Thank you everyone else for your input.
Thus, no, the character is NOT illegal in this case, because "Play, Play, Play" trumps normal eligibility rules and there's no good way to test for that.I'll find the reference later, but I'm pretty certain it does not. Level limits and tier ranges are fixed. A level 8 character may not play in a tier 1-7 mod even under the guise of "Play, Play, Play". That player would play a level 4/7 pregen or 'roll' a new one.
Correct. One of the "hard rules" that Play Play Play cannot break is tiering. In this instance, the level 8 character would need to play a level 1 or 4 or 7 pregen or start a new character. I never want to give the impression that playing in a tiered scenario with a PC not meant for that tier is okay.
In this specific instance, the level 8 trying to play a Tier 1-7 may skew the tier too high for the other PCs, resorting in unnecessary difficulty for them (and likely death). Another possibility is that the level 8 cakewalks the entire scenario for the other players who just stare at the level 8 the entire session, bored out of their minds.
I'd like to avoid both examples.
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Thanks for the reply.
Please do not make judgements of my motives. I am asking a mechanical question as there is not an example in 2.2 or specific ruling that is clear. To be honest, I just want to know as the section is written unclearly. It does not have an example or a rule for a higher level GM character.
I would also point out, contray to what people have stated in responses, that 2.2 clearly is related to the tier in which the scenario is run and therefore the APL as the APL determins the sub tier. GM gets the tier at which the adventure runs (I assume the sub tier) or if his character is lower level than that he gets the lowest sub tier. The GM character gets accredited the sheet once the character makes level.
I agree with you Thea and my own characters and record reflects this by the characters I have created, some of which are not listed up yet. I just want rule clarifity and ease of understanding. I don't want to get it wrong when I apply the GM awards to my characters.
My apologies if I came off as judgemental that was not my intention. You still seem confused after several of us had, or at least I thought we had, clarified the rule and answered the question. I was merely trying to find out if there some other underlying meaning to the question.
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Hi all.
Soirry Josh for starting a new thread. I do not think this question is answered in this thread. I appreciate an answer.
Definatively, you get a chronical sheet for playing a scenario and then you can later GM the same scenario and get the reward sheet for another character.
You can also GM a scenario and get a chronical sheet and then at a later time play the scenario with a different character and get a chronical sheet for that.
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Hi all.
Soirry Josh for starting a new thread. I do not think this question is answered in this thread. I appreciate an answer.
Definatively, you get a chronical sheet for playing a scenario and then you can later GM the same scenario and get the reward sheet for another character.
You can also GM a scenario and get a chronical sheet and then at a later time play the scenario with a different character and get a chronical sheet for that.
I believe it has been made clear, but some are waiting for Josh to clarify in the guide what he has posted on the forums which is just fine.
- If you have Played a Scenario before GMing it you can get GM Credit the first time you GM it on a different PC with a different Faction
- Once you have GMed a scenario and gotten GM credit, you can never get credit for that scenario again. either as a GM or a Player, even if you fall under the Replay rules. As a GM you know too much of the quest so even playing a different character of a different faction you still unfair advantage. This is my wording on why, not Josh's. This one I am going to admit that though I believe is correct, I may have missed him saying otherwise recently, I am basing this on what I think I remember him saying, A quick search failed in locating the post, but I am at least 99% sure ;).
- If you Run a Scenario of a higher tier then your character you get the lowest tier of the scenario once you reach that level.
- If you are between tiers you get the chronicle sheet that is the lower of the 2.
- If you run a tier that is lower (running Tier 1-2, when your character in Tier 3-4) then your PC you get the Chronicle sheet of the the tier that matches your Character level, or the one closes to it, if there is a huge difference in level (Running a tier 1-2 and your character is Tier 8-9) I would recommend making a new character, since adding such a low chronicle sheet to your high level character would only hurt him.
Josh if I got anything wrong here, correct me, don't hold anything back ;).
Hi all.
Soirry Josh for starting a new thread. I do not think this question is answered in this thread. I appreciate an answer.
Definatively, you get a chronical sheet for playing a scenario and then you can later GM the same scenario and get the reward sheet for another character.
You can also GM a scenario and get a chronical sheet and then at a later time play the scenario with a different character and get a chronical sheet for that.
If it has not been answered in this thread, then it has been answered in others, but I am not looking for the quotes right now. Anyway, part one is correct so long as the characters are of different factions. Part two is only correct if you are playing it under both the replay AND "play, play, play" rules and you are playing a character of a different faction. The same applies to someone who has played a scenario once and plays it again specifically under the replay rules:
You may not replay a scenario just for the fun of it.You may not replay a scenario with the same faction that you played it with before.
You may not replay a scenario with the same character that you played it with before.
If you spoil the plot for the table, the GM has the right to ask you to leave the table and is under no obligation to award you a chronicle sheet.
Not the last sentence. That is proof that you can get a chronicle sheet when replaying.
So, in other words, if you want to get two characters a chronicle sheet the easy way, you play a scenario first and then you run it, not the other way around.
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You may not replay a scenario just for the fun of it.
You may not replay a scenario with the same faction that you played it with before.
You may not replay a scenario with the same character that you played it with before.
If you spoil the plot for the table, the GM has the right to ask you to leave the table and is under no obligation to award you a chronicle sheet.
Note the last sentence. That is proof that you can get a chronicle sheet when replaying.
So, in other words, if you want to get two characters a chronicle sheet the easy way, you play a scenario first and then you run it, not the other way around.
My understanding, and the way I've always done it, is that yes, you an get a chronicle sheet if replaying a module with a different factioned character if you have not GM'd the mod. I took the spoiling of the plot to mean both as a former GM of the mod and if you are replaying the mod with your different character.
I always thought that if you GM'd the mod that that was your credit, however, you didn't get player credit for the mod as you know the plot, know where all the faction missions are, know the spoiler things. Hence the term "eating the mod" cause all you're going to get is the GM credit for the module, not player credit later down the line.
So to clarify my interpretation of the rule:
Double credit
Play then GM *credit to character of appropriate level and different faction than the character that you played the mod with*
Single credit
GM before playing
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My understanding, and the way I've always done it, is that yes, you an get a chronicle sheet if replaying a module with a different factioned character if you have not GM'd the mod. I took the spoiling of the plot to mean both as a former GM of the mod and if you are replaying the mod with your different character.
I always thought that if you GM'd the mod that that was your credit, however, you didn't get player credit for the mod as you know the plot, know where all the faction missions are, know the spoiler things. Hence the term "eating the mod" cause all you're going to get is the GM credit for the module, not player credit later down the line.
So to clarify my interpretation of the rule:
Double credit
Play then GM *credit to character of appropriate level and different faction than the character that you played the mod with*
Single credit
GM before playing
That is the way I thought it was
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You may not replay a scenario just for the fun of it.
You may not replay a scenario with the same faction that you played it with before.
You may not replay a scenario with the same character that you played it with before.
If you spoil the plot for the table, the GM has the right to ask you to leave the table and is under no obligation to award you a chronicle sheet.
Note the last sentence. That is proof that you can get a chronicle sheet when replaying.
So, in other words, if you want to get two characters a chronicle sheet the easy way, you play a scenario first and then you run it, not the other way around.
My understanding, and the way I've always done it, is that yes, you an get a chronicle sheet if replaying a module with a different factioned character if you have not GM'd the mod. I took the spoiling of the plot to mean both as a former GM of the mod and if you are replaying the mod with your different character.
I always thought that if you GM'd the mod that that was your credit, however, you didn't get player credit for the mod as you know the plot, know where all the faction missions are, know the spoiler things. Hence the term "eating the mod" cause all you're going to get is the GM credit for the module, not player credit later down the line.
So to clarify my interpretation of the rule:
Double credit
Play then GM *credit to character of appropriate level and different faction than the character that you played the mod with*
Single credit
GM before playing
Still overly penalizes anyone who is willing to GM, as no one will want to run a scenario until after they have played it.
And, if you really want to game the system, you can play it once, normally, then ;play it three more times under the "Play, play, play" rules with 3 more PCs, all of different factions, then run the scenario to credit a fifth PC of the last faction available...
You could also get that 5th and final credit by playing it yet again under the "Play, play, play" rules with that last faction, too, of course.
6th+ play and second+ GMing are non-credit, other than GM stars, for anyone.
But, with the rules as so interpreted, it makes eating the scenario as the first (and therefore only) credit less optimal than playing it (slot 0) then running it.
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Still overly penalizes anyone who is willing to GM, as no one will want to run a scenario until after they have played it.
And, if you really want to game the system, you can play it once, normally, then ;play it three more times under the "Play, play, play" rules with 3 more PCs, all of different factions, then run the scenario to credit a fifth PC of the last faction available...
You could also get that 5th and final credit by playing it yet again under the "Play, play, play" rules with that last faction, too, of course.
6th+ play and second+ GMing are non-credit, other than GM stars, for anyone.
But, with the rules as so interpreted, it makes eating the scenario as the first (and therefore only) credit less optimal than playing it (slot 0) then running it
I guess I don't see this as over penalizing the person eating the module. They still get full credit for the module, they just don't get the module boon (which honestly I've never used on my characters). Someone has to do it; I do it all the time for my home group and then run it for the fellowship game days. Yes GMing first and eating the mod is defiantly less optimal than playing it first. But again, someone has to do it and as I’m the main GM for my home group I eat more than my fair share – but as I have fun playing and I like drawing maps I’m good with it.
My opinion is after you’ve GM’d the mod and you’re playing based on the PPP rule... you use a pre –gen. If I look at what you say with playing the system it’s more of an abuse of the PPP system. I don't believe the intention of the PPP or replay rules were so that players could get all their characters through every single mod. My understanding is that that is so that you have full legal players should there be a need to add a table that wouldn't be a full one. Wasn't the discussion on PPP rules done somewhere else?
From the guide, pages 29 and 30
Game Master Rewards
Finally, and most importantly, is the topic of rewarding GMs for volunteering their time to run Pathfinder Society scenarios. Starting with version 2.2 of this document (and not retroactive to any previous scenarios that were run) any Game Master who “eats” a scenario gets full credit for that scenario applied to his own character one time. “Full credit” means the GM gets the following:
• +1 XP for the scenario
• 100% of the max gold for the tier most appropriate to the GM’s character (see below)
• Full PA
The GM does not get any special boons bestowed by a chronicle sheet, such as free magical treasure, regional boons, or future bonus dice rolls. The GM also does not get a Day Job roll. If the GM previously received partial credit for a scenario (using the old reward system), she must still take the partial credit and cannot run the scenario again for full credit.
A GM may only apply a chronicle from a specific scenario to one of her PCs once—in other words, she may only receive character credit for GMing Scenario #29 once. Any additional sessions spent GMing that scenario earn no additional credit, but will of course apply to her
GM Ranking.
GMs receive the full prestige award for scenarios they run. They exact amount depends on the scenario; for example, most of the Season 0 scenarios had only 1 PA—GMs can’t gain 2 PA from one of those scenarios.
PPP rules from the guide, Page 17
Play, Play, Play!
Our number one rule in Pathfinder Society Organized Play is to get as many people playing as often as possible. If the rules are preventing you from getting a legal table assembled for play, then the rules need to change. You, as the GM or coordinator, have the ability to stretch the rules in small ways (most of which are stated in this document)
in order to ensure that as many players as possible can play. Never turn away players! If you feel the rules are forcing you to turn someone away, ask on the Pathfinder Society messageboards or email pathfindersociety@paizo.com for guidance on how to handle your specific
situation. Turning away players only serves to build walls between the Society and new players—avoid doing so whenever possible!
Replay rules from page 18/19
Replaying Scenarios
Replay is legal as of 2.2, but only in this manner:
• You may only replay a scenario in order to follow the “Play, Play, Play” rule to make sure a legal table happens. This means that if you previously played a scenario but the only way to make a legal four-person table is for you to replay it again, relay is now allowed. From another perspective, if three of the four players have already played a scenario but the forth player has not, the three players
may elect to replay the scenario to ensure the fourth is part of a legal table. You may not replay a scenario just for the fun of it.
• You may not replay a scenario with the same faction tha you played it with before.
• You may not replay a scenario with the same character that you played it withbefore.
• If you spoil the plot for the table, the GM has the right to ask you to leave the table and is under no
obligation to award you a chronicle sheet. Be very careful about character knowledge versus player knowledge.
If you’re concerned about possibly spoiling something during the course of play, take the GM aside and ask how
she would like it handled. Remember: the goal of replay is to make sure fun gaming happens, not to remove the
fun from gaming. Replay will likely not happen very often, but it adds an extra weapon to the arsenal of GMs who run smaller
game sessions and often have trouble finding a scenario that fits all of the players present. We removed the player check in the reporting system that checked whether or
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One aspect that I have never seen here mentioned:
The more I GM the less do I care about the reward. Yes - I regarded the reward as really important for my very first game as GM - but the more I GM the less do I care about the possible XP and PA I can get for my second or third character.
I still like to play modules first with my main character - but it feels that even in this respect I tend to worry less if I eat a module as before - with the exemption of part 2 of two part modules that I started but didn't finish with my main character.
On the other hand - getting positive feedback from players tends to motivate me more now as the other rewards.
I can't believe I'm the only one feeling that way.
Thod
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean
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One aspect that I have never seen here mentioned:
The more I GM the less do I care about the reward. Yes - I regarded the reward as really important for my very first game as GM - but the more I GM the less do I care about the possible XP and PA I can get for my second or third character.
I still like to play modules first with my main character - but it feels that even in this respect I tend to worry less if I eat a module as before - with the exemption of part 2 of two part modules that I started but didn't finish with my main character.On the other hand - getting positive feedback from players tends to motivate me more now as the other rewards.
I can't believe I'm the only one feeling that way.
Thod
I'm with you on this one Thod. I really enjoy running the games (even when you got no GM credit) hence I've only played my two characters a handful of times (but they are now 7th and 3rd level. I was originally thinking I'd add the credit so that I have got a range of characters in case I do get a chance to play. But I've ended up playing pre-gens as often as my own characters (to help make up a table)and ended up enjoying those games as much as playing my own characters. I think the GM credit is great for when you have a group of people taking it in turns to GM. Those of us who who enjoy GMing are getting our own reward until they pry the dice from our cold, dead fingers ;-)
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One aspect that I have never seen here mentioned:
The more I GM the less do I care about the reward. Yes - I regarded the reward as really important for my very first game as GM - but the more I GM the less do I care about the possible XP and PA I can get for my second or third character.
I still like to play modules first with my main character - but it feels that even in this respect I tend to worry less if I eat a module as before - with the exemption of part 2 of two part modules that I started but didn't finish with my main character.On the other hand - getting positive feedback from players tends to motivate me more now as the other rewards.
I can't believe I'm the only one feeling that way.
Thod
After about ~25 scenarios I have yet to actually take any GM credit. I keep saying I will and never do. :)
I'm really going to do it now though, I swear! I have a character concept that I want to play but will be nothing like I want it to be until 2nd level, so I'll probably take 3 mods worth of credit and make this new character. Now I just need a name... hmm. Maybe I'll go with Thea. ;-)
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After about ~25 scenarios I have yet to actually take any GM credit. I keep saying I will and never do. :)
I'm really going to do it now though, I swear! I have a character concept that I want to play but will be nothing like I want it to be until 2nd level, so I'll probably take 3 mods worth of credit and make this new character. Now I just need a name... hmm. Maybe I'll go with Thea. ;-)
Kyle there is no way to play me, sorry,
That being said *ahem* *GAMICON* for you sirah
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I do remember first starting out GMing and posting some permutation of the question above. The reward was the god-awesome most important thing to GMing when I first started. I had to have the reward to make my Fighter get to 6th. A dozen or more scenarios GM'd later, it's less about the reward and more about the fun. I think GMing grows on you. It still matters to me, and I routinely have to decide which character I'll apply the reward to, but the GM with another dozen scenarios ahead of me, he rarely even uses the reward anymore. We both GM. We both occassionally get to play. The reward simply lets us have a character of the appropriate tier to game with.
Just my two cents.
See y'all at GENCON BABY!
Alex
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I'm another who completely agrees with Thod, Evergreen and others, that GMing is it's own reward. Where else can you be constantly entertained by the misadventures of a table of four-to-six players?
Credit is useful if you're GMing for a home group or have friends with whom you want to maintain characters of similar level so you can continue to play together. However, I've found applying credit to my characters simply means I get to play those characters less often. Eg, I've only played Slip a handful of times, and he's already level 9, and retirement isn't that far away. I've really enjoyed playing Slip on those occasions, but I regret that he's leveled up so fast and I've missed exploring this fascinating character more along the way.
As my friends have now started secondary or tertiary characters, maintaining characters of similar level is easier without having to apply GM credit, because you don't have to keep up with your friends primary characters, but can adventure with their secondary characters and still enjoy the journey.
Though prying players away from their characters, and encouraging them to GM remains a serious challenge. You can't believe how many offers I've had from players to GM at GenConOz/PaizoConOz, only to see those offers evaporate when they see the game schedule, and start booking in their play sessions.
I GM every session because any session I don't denies a table of six players, and every session I play denies a table of six players plus a player's seat at the table I'm playing. Multiply this by the number of players who could GM, but choose to play instead ...
We need to give GMs opportunities to play. The best way to do this is rotate the GM responsbility among your group, encourage existing players to GM a few sessions and help them any way you can, connect with other players via gamedays and conventions, and introduce new players to the game. Building a local community will help by providing you with a wider range of players and GMs of various levels and experience when you need them.
The best suggestion I can give is to connect with other GMs in your area, and GM scenarios for each other before running them for your home group or gameday or convention. Last year we held a four-day GM-only mini-con where the requirement for entry was you had to GM a minimum of two scenarios for the other participants. A couple of players tried GMing for the first time, and have since GMed for our home games and at public conventions. One will be GMing at PaizoConOz. We need to encourage more of this!
Organising an event such as PaizoConOz requires dedicated GMs, otherwise there would be no sessions for the players. But it requires a lot of effort, and someone has to burn scenarios to make it happen.
Cheers,
DarkWhite
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The recent flavour of the thread is noted.
My background is from an isolated play group with one GM - me. My treat/holiday in recent times is to go away and PLAY a character at a con. Don't get me wrong, I like GMing - I would like to play.
Going away (traveling hundreds if not thousands of kilometres) and playing tier 1-2 over and over does loose its appeal particularly if you play at a con ONCE a year. Not being able to advance a character kinda defeats the purpose of play, in part but not completely. Thank is one of my angles but not the soul reason. There are plenty of other positives for doing it.
If I lived in a place many play groups and multiple GMs I would add my voice to the chorus as I would have my fix. As I do not and speak of my experience as an isolated GMer and player, I believe it is only fair to point this out.
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@Masika: You'll always be welcome as a player at PaizoConOz, and I apologise if my previous post implied otherwise. I was trying to highlight the need to support GMs, and if by playing sessions at PaizoConOz means you get to take that experience away and run those scenarios for your players back home, then we are doing well to support another GM, and hopefully your regional group in North QLD - that's what it's all about, sharing the love!
I certainly appreciate your joining us to game in Brisbane, it's gonna be one helluva weekend!
Cheers,
DarkWhite