Now that it's a level 0 spell and usable effectively at will, I am having a problem with PCs wanting to detect magic all the time, on everything. They expect it to show things that are illusions, whether people are under alter self or other disguise magic, whether people are charmed or dominated, invisible stuff, etc. (Of course they can't get the exact spell, but they get school easily enough, and if someone has an enchantment or illusion or whatnot there's a pretty limited set of options). And monsters with transformation powers and whatnot, too, since anything Su/Sp detects as magic.
Do I just say it doesn't detect spells that are meant to be kinda secret? Create a Secret Spell metamagic feat that makes a spell not detect as magic for a 1 level bump? Make the caster do a dispel magic-like check to see it? What?
Usually if this is an issue you can use a spell along the lines of Undetectable Aura. I do not think that is in Pathfinder yet, but it was a common spell from back in the older editions. There are a few versions that hide magic and alignment readings... or change them to appear as something else.
If a person were making a trap or other permanent illusion they may also cast the spells to keep it a secret. I also like the idea of some form of Spell Obfuscation feat to make magic harder to detect or ID with spellcraft.
There is an easy way around it: Magic Aura
School illusion (glamer); Level bard 1, sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a small square of silk that must be passed over the object that receives the aura)
Range touch
Target one touched object weighing up to 5 lbs./level
Duration 1 day/level (D)
Saving Throw none; see text; Spell Resistance no
You alter an item's aura so that it registers to detect spells (and spells with similar capabilities) as though it were non-magical, or a magic item of a kind you specify, or the subject of a spell you specify. If the object bearing magic aura has identify cast on it or is similarly examined, the examiner recognizes that the aura is false and detects the object's actual qualities if he succeeds on a Will save. Otherwise, he believes the aura and no amount of testing reveals what the true magic is.
If the targeted item's own aura is exceptionally powerful (if it is an artifact, for instance), magic aura doesn't work.
Note: A magic weapon, shield, or suit of armor must be a masterwork item, so a sword of average make, for example, looks suspicious if it has a magical aura.
Or you can focus on the fact that it is a spell identified with spellcraft and does take three rounds of focusing in order to ascertain anything truly useful. Our DM threatens us with invisible rogues that once we stop to cast the spell to detect their invisibility sneak attacks because we'd be flat-footed :(. He's mean :).
There is an easy way around it: Magic Aura ** spoiler omitted **
Or you can focus on the fact that it is a spell identified with spellcraft and does take three rounds of focusing in order to ascertain anything truly useful. Our DM threatens us with invisible rogues that once we stop to cast the spell to detect their invisibility sneak attacks because we'd be flat-footed :(. He's mean :).
Yeah, the problem isn't in "leap into combat" mode, it's in general interaction and dungeoneering mode where rounds aren't the problem. And undetectable aura stuff requires yet another spell, and to be a wizard, and...
Yeah, the problem isn't in "leap into combat" mode, it's in general interaction and dungeoneering mode where rounds aren't the problem. And undetectable aura stuff requires yet another spell, and to be a wizard, and...There is an easy way around it: Magic Aura ** spoiler omitted **
Or you can focus on the fact that it is a spell identified with spellcraft and does take three rounds of focusing in order to ascertain anything truly useful. Our DM threatens us with invisible rogues that once we stop to cast the spell to detect their invisibility sneak attacks because we'd be flat-footed :(. He's mean :).
All you have to do is lower there confidence in it a few times, and they will probably stop abusing it. I would think and give it a try, at least. Although, routine use of it shouldn't be too out of place, especially at suspicious spots in a dungeon.
Also bear in mind that, altho it's an at-will spell, it's still casting a spell. If the players came across a group of NPCs and the the guy in wizard's robe in the back started casting a spell, it's likely that the PCs would assume hostile intent. Most NPCs probably would, as well.
as an Aside you cant detect Invisible things with detect magic.
as an Aside you cant detect Invisible things with detect magic.
Unfortunately, however, you can detect the Invisibility spell itself that's keeping the person invisible. Which really kind of defeats the purpose.
I am seriously considering just moving Detect Magic up to a 1st level spell and making it easier to use as a compensation. I've had the same problem in my games as well, both in Beta and now under full.
I've had to incorporate some 'world rules' into my own game.
1) Magic Traps include Magic Aura by default.
2) Invisibility and any similar spell includes Magic Aura as a subcomponent of the spell, cast as part of the spell.
3) Detect Magic requires uninterrupted Line of Effect, and doesn't work through objects (anything over 1/4 inch thick stops the magic aura from being detected).
Just tell your players 'if something is meant to be hidden (magic trap, illusion spell) then detect magic will not pick it up'. The spell masks its own aura.
Alternatively, you could also set a Perception DC to notice such a "hidden" aura.
3) Detect Magic requires uninterrupted Line of Effect, and doesn't work through objects (anything over 1/4 inch thick stops the magic aura from being detected).
This one isn't quite as needed since divination spells are already stopped by lead. Also metal and stone of enough thickness blocks it too -- heck even enough wood will stop detect magic.
Mechanical traps won't be found at all of course -- and honestly most people don't realise it but they play magical traps wrong.
By the rules anyone can find a magical trap. Only someone with trapfinding though can disable a magical trap with the disable device skill.
If you read each and every description of trapfinding in the book they all say this.
So your party is taking a standard action every round to do something anyone in the party can already do with a standard action. Also just because you detect magic doesn't mean you automatically know where it is, how strong it is, or what type it is -- these things take rounds of study before the answer is given, and even if you know that there is an illusion spell in a specific area you don't know what that spell (including exactly what it is affecting) is until you identify it with the spellcraft spell.
3) Detect Magic requires uninterrupted Line of Effect, and doesn't work through objects (anything over 1/4 inch thick stops the magic aura from being detected).This one isn't quite as needed since divination spells are already stopped by lead. Also metal and stone of enough thickness blocks it too -- heck even enough wood will stop detect magic.
Mechanical traps won't be found at all of course -- and honestly most people don't realise it but they play magical traps wrong.
By the rules anyone can find a magical trap. Only someone with trapfinding though can disable a magical trap with the disable device skill.
If you read each and every description of trapfinding in the book they all say this.
So your party is taking a standard action every round to do something anyone in the party can already do with a standard action. Also just because you detect magic doesn't mean you automatically know where it is, how strong it is, or what type it is -- these things take rounds of study before the answer is given, and even if you know that there is an illusion spell in a specific area you don't know what that spell (including exactly what it is affecting) is until you identify it with the spellcraft spell.
The problem is that time is an abstract in PF. So, the players can say 'I take 18 seconds to stare down the hallway with detect magic'. Then they know any magic auras in that line of sight, out to the range of detect magic.
Then, they walk forward to the next set of ranges (the rogue is checking for mechanical traps while the magic user is scanning for magic), and lather rinse and repeat. This all get's blown down to 'We do our normal sweep', and since it's non combat game time, it all comes down to 10 seconds of real time and a couple of die rolls.
All of this really kind of defeats the purpose of using illusions and spell traps in a dungeon setting. As soon as they are exploring 'unknown caves/towers/ruins/etc' they go into 'high alert' mode and do the scan/detect/search routine and move slowly.
I'd consider a spell like detect magic to count as interacting with an illusion and roll a saving throw for the player behind my screen. If they fail that, no illusion magic is detected.
Yep, I do as well. That's part of the invisibility rule, I should have written 'illusion' rather than invisiblity specifically, I just was thinking invisibility from reading the OP.
All of this really kind of defeats the purpose of using illusions and spell traps in a dungeon setting. As soon as they are exploring 'unknown caves/towers/ruins/etc' they go into 'high alert' mode and do the scan/detect/search routine and move slowly.
How so? They would do this anyways. They'll have their "stand advancement strategy" regardless of the use of detect magic. They'll probe this, walk in this order, have the rogue (or whoever has the highest perception check) look for traps, and then act accordingly.
The illusion is still there and until they know what's going on exactly (by the methods I described above) anything other than to keep checking is simply wasting resources.
PC 1: "I found a magic aura guys!"
PC 2: "I'll ready an action to attack anything that jumps out!"
PC 3: "I'll cast bless!"
PC 4: "I move into position to shoot something."
Now if it's an illusion PC 3 just wasted a spell, they won't know until PC 1 identifies what's going on -- in fact him finding the aura could be part of an ambush -- if the PC's act one way the monsters hiding in the secret doors jump out -- if not resources are wasted and the monsters wait until the PCs get past the "trap" and surprise them from behind.
Again just because they "know" something isn't right doesn't mean they know what isn't right, or what is supposed to be right in the situation. They could just as easily have an unseen servant walk ahead of them banging on things until they know what's there.
In the end the net effect of the "standard adventuring tactics" for the party is the same -- it's just the mechanics that differ slightly.
Either way it's just going to be "10 seconds of real time and a couple of rolls".
Either way it's just going to be "10 seconds of real time and a couple of rolls".
To me, it's more of a gut thing. A 0 level spell shouldn't, even at will, require so many modifications. No other at-will 0-level spell requires such things, and I still find it mechanically obnoxious that a 0 level spell can all but defeat a much higher level spell (such as Invisibility or Greater Invisibility). By RAW, it even detects illusion spells (despite ruling it as 'interacting with'). And there have been people on here that argue that detect magic will still detect the illusion even if you fail your saving throw interacting with it, but 'you believe you're wrong'.
That grates on my sensibilities. It wasn't as big a problem back in 3.5, because you had a limited number of uses, so it was husbanded for 'looting the dead' to detect magic items and 'looting the treasure room'. Now it's used ad nauseum (emphasis on nausea).
|
put them in a totally magic area. a dungeon with walls of force, and magic everywhere. make it so much they group will have to check every square inch. see how long they keep doin it.
hell if they insist on searching every swuare inch, have nothing there. have it be totally empty (already looted possibly).
honestly, a group that spends that much time using detect magic is askin to be royally screwed with IMHO
Either way it's just going to be "10 seconds of real time and a couple of rolls".To me, it's more of a gut thing. A 0 level spell shouldn't, even at will, require so many modifications. No other at-will 0-level spell requires such things, and I still find it mechanically obnoxious that a 0 level spell can all but defeat a much higher level spell (such as Invisibility or Greater Invisibility). By RAW, it even detects illusion spells (despite ruling it as 'interacting with'). And there have been people on here that argue that detect magic will still detect the illusion even if you fail your saving throw interacting with it, but 'you believe you're wrong'.
That grates on my sensibilities. It wasn't as big a problem back in 3.5, because you had a limited number of uses, so it was husbanded for 'looting the dead' to detect magic items and 'looting the treasure room'. Now it's used ad nauseum (emphasis on nausea).
In the games I run, detect magic has been used to sense illusions, and several times the caster failed his save against the illusion. I rule in those cases that the interaction started on Round 1 of Detect Magic concentration, and if the save was failed, the illusion was accepted as real. Fast forward to Round 3: I tell the caster that there's Illusion magic on/around the thing they see (that they think is real but is actually an illusion) and make a secret will save to disbelieve, as is standard for most illusions where something tips you off that it might be an illusion after you initially failed your save. If the caster fails that secret roll as well, they have clearly been duped by the illusion, and while I will respond with requests to "make a Will Save to disbelieve" by allowing them to make the check, I react the same way that I would if they wanted to disbelieve an actual object - regardless of their result on the save they roll (including a natural 20), I tell them that as far as they can tell the (illusory) object is real. Typically they draw one of two conclusions from this: (1) that the illusion magic is something smaller than the whole object or (2) that the object was doctored with Magic Aura. I guess this might fall under the interpretation that "you believe you are wrong" but I find that it's more complex than that, and more enjoyable.
As far as things like magical traps, I do call for Perception checks - I rule that Detect Magic gives a +5 bonus to the check, but takes an extended search take longer, up to twice as long as indicated in the skill description, based on the need to maintain concentration.
As far as detecting Invisibility, yes, the presence of Illusion magic can be detected in the area/volume of an invisible creature. That, of course, fails to differentiate between an invisible creature and an illusion of ... nothing. I once set up a great trap in a Wizard's tower that involved two programmed illusions - one of empty space sized to mimic a Huge creature, just to radiate illusion magic, and the other triggered to present the illusion of a huge creature, asleep, after the first illusion was dispelled. The party fell for it, and used a fair portion of their resources creeping around this thing that they didn't want to fight, all without bothering to check for a second illusion - having dispelled the "invisibility" they were confident that they had penetrated to "reality" and never questioned the reality of the creature.
Illusion is fun; Detect Magic just gives a GM more opportunity to mess with the PCs.
Bunch O Stuff
+1. The rules set has changed. Either adapt to it or house rule it. At will Detect Magic is no more "game breaking" than the changes to Power Attack are.
The entire complaint from my fellow DMs against unlimited cantrips seems to be, "I can't do things exactly the same way I used to. This makes me sad. Change it back."
The abilities of the PCs have changed. It's time to update your strategies and your tactics. What worked before won't work now. Either step up your game or house rule it back to your comfort zone.
Heck nine times out of ten they don't need updated either -- the GM just has to think about it again which he probably hasn't actually done in 5~10 years.
For example just because you detect the aura doesn't mean you can instantly identify it -- it must be in line of sight. So if it's six inches in stone (as a trap could be) then you might know the aura is there -- know how strong it is, but you won't know what school of magic it is.
Even with invisibility the only thing it does on the first round is detect an aura. "An aura is here" If the invisible creature leaves, moves or does something else it is quite possible that the players will spend 3~9 rounds looking for something that isn't there any more.
Also some invisible creatures are naturally invisible -- which is an extraordinary effect (not magic) meaning detect magic won't tell the caster anything at all.
Just one or two invisible stalkers and suddenly no one will simply trust detect magic anymore.
Either way it's just going to be "10 seconds of real time and a couple of rolls".To me, it's more of a gut thing. A 0 level spell shouldn't, even at will, require so many modifications. No other at-will 0-level spell requires such things, and I still find it mechanically obnoxious that a 0 level spell can all but defeat a much higher level spell (such as Invisibility or Greater Invisibility). By RAW, it even detects illusion spells (despite ruling it as 'interacting with'). And there have been people on here that argue that detect magic will still detect the illusion even if you fail your saving throw interacting with it, but 'you believe you're wrong'.
That grates on my sensibilities. It wasn't as big a problem back in 3.5, because you had a limited number of uses, so it was husbanded for 'looting the dead' to detect magic items and 'looting the treasure room'. Now it's used ad nauseum (emphasis on nausea).
Yeah, I agree 100%. I have to say that I'm leaning towards just saying "It's a level 0 spell... It's not gonna detect anything that is meant to not be detected."
It really is used in annoying ways. "I detect magic on the crowd at the inn, because whoever has magic items needs to be watched." Are those status just statues or medusa leavings? Is that a shapechanged yuan ti? Running undetectable alignment or a ring of mind shielding? All RAW detect magicable.
"Casting spells must be a hostile action" isn't a reasonable solution, as generally wizards are casting prestidigitation for kicks all the time, and Detect Magic isn't targeted or even have to be cast close to someone.
"Put them in a magical dungeon" is also not a solution. It works - for that one dungeon. Most people have a campaign that goes beyond a single dungeon; I for sure do.
Basically almost any mystery kind of thing in the game can be spoiled with detect magic, without going to bizarre lengths. Screw that.
|
It really is used in annoying ways. "I detect magic on the crowd at the inn, because whoever has magic items needs to be watched." Are those status just statues or medusa leavings? Is that a shapechanged yuan ti? Running undetectable alignment or a ring of mind shielding? All RAW detect magicable."Casting spells must be a hostile action" isn't a reasonable solution, as generally wizards are casting prestidigitation for kicks all the time, and Detect Magic isn't targeted or even have to be cast close to someone.
Try taking someone's picture in public. In fact, try spending a minute taking a picture of everyone sitting in a local restaurant.
See where I'm going here?
It really is used in annoying ways. "I detect magic on the crowd at the inn, because whoever has magic items needs to be watched." Are those status just statues or medusa leavings? Is that a shapechanged yuan ti? Running undetectable alignment or a ring of mind shielding? All RAW detect magicable."Casting spells must be a hostile action" isn't a reasonable solution, as generally wizards are casting prestidigitation for kicks all the time, and Detect Magic isn't targeted or even have to be cast close to someone.
Try taking someone's picture in public. In fact, try spending a minute taking a picture of everyone sitting in a local restaurant.
See where I'm going here?
No.
You don't have to get in their faces and you're not using flash... It's like sitting in the corner and running your iPhone's video camera across the room. And that happens all the time, and no one objects. You don't even need to be clear you're using the videocamera, you can just be looking for a signal or playing a stupid game. kinda like they don't know you're detecting magic, you just cast a spell and now you're sitting there looking around the room, like other people do all the time.
It really is used in annoying ways. "I detect magic on the crowd at the inn, because whoever has magic items needs to be watched." Are those status just statues or medusa leavings? Is that a shapechanged yuan ti? Running undetectable alignment or a ring of mind shielding? All RAW detect magicable."Casting spells must be a hostile action" isn't a reasonable solution, as generally wizards are casting prestidigitation for kicks all the time, and Detect Magic isn't targeted or even have to be cast close to someone.
Try taking someone's picture in public. In fact, try spending a minute taking a picture of everyone sitting in a local restaurant.
See where I'm going here?
No.
You don't have to get in their faces and you're not using flash... It's like sitting in the corner and running your iPhone's video camera across the room. And that happens all the time, and no one objects. You don't even need to be clear you're using the videocamera, you can just be looking for a signal or playing a stupid game. kinda like they don't know you're detecting magic, you just cast a spell and now you're sitting there looking around the room, like other people do all the time.
Except that a 0-level Detect Magic spell is NOT subtle. With Somatic components you have to wave your hand around in strange ways, and with a Verbal component you have to speak in a strong voice. Sure, you can Silent/Still it, but then it's not a cantrip anymore and we're back to the old way of it working.
That said, I don't think that Detect Magic as an at-will cantrip is a big deal. +1 to the poster above that said that it's up to the DM's of the world to adjust tactics and setups.
Personally, I don't allow Detect Magic to work against illusions. It makes illusions almost worthless. If I need to cover up Charms, Dominates, Alter Self, etc, I'll use a variation of Magic Aura or a Feat.
If I were to run Detect Magic using RAW, I would put some fear into my players. Run them through Rappan Athuk. Let them find the extremely-well-hidden-but-easy-to-find-by-detect-magic secret door on level 3. And let them suffer the DC28 Will save Symbol of Insanity trap that will probably result in a TPK. For future characters, they can decide if the illusion they detected is some they should be messing with or not. :)
Also, keep in mind that detect magic, being an emanation, needs line of effect - anything that has cover, whether from lead or otherwise, doesn't show up. And you also need line of sight to determine the school of the aura, so if something's invisible, you can't tell the school (oddly, it seems that you can tell strength and location, but not the school...).
It can still be a pain, though. You really should have to have line of sight to tell location, too.
|
|
You don't have to get in their faces and you're not using flash... It's like sitting in the corner and running your iPhone's video camera across the room. And that happens all the time, and no one objects. You don't even need to be clear you're using the videocamera, you can just be looking for a signal or playing a stupid game. kinda like they don't know you're detecting magic, you just cast a spell and now you're sitting there looking around the room, like other people do all the time.
All of which is opposed by the rooms Perception checks and Sense Motive checks versus your Stealth checks and Bluff checks. And as Zappo pointed out, Detect Magic has somatic components, which means it's going to be hard to convince the pub that you're just 'stretching your arms' if they have any mystic knowledge at all.
All of which is opposed by the rooms Perception checks and Sense Motive checks versus your Stealth checks and Bluff checks. And as Zappo pointed out, Detect Magic has somatic components, which means it's going to be hard to convince the pub that you're just 'stretching your arms' if they have any mystic knowledge at all.
So in your games, no one can cast spells in public without being lynched? Somehow I doubt that.
|
|
All of which is opposed by the rooms Perception checks and Sense Motive checks versus your Stealth checks and Bluff checks. And as Zappo pointed out, Detect Magic has somatic components, which means it's going to be hard to convince the pub that you're just 'stretching your arms' if they have any mystic knowledge at all.So in your games, no one can cast spells in public without being lynched? Somehow I doubt that.
Nice strawman. How about 'that dude with the magic items is coming over to talk about how I'm waving my fingers at him'? Or just 'sir, I'm going to have to ask you to leave my establishment' from the bartender while he points to the 'no spellcasting' sign on the wall.
Seriously, if the use of the spell is annoying you, roleplay it out with an annoyed NPC. :)
Nice strawman. How about 'that dude with the magic items is coming over to talk about how I'm waving my fingers at him'? Or just 'sir, I'm going to have to ask you to leave my establishment' from the bartender while he points to the 'no spellcasting' sign on the wall.
Exactly, I'm saying my conception of the game world is not one in which people are generally hassled for spellcasting. Many spells are routine self-buffs, healing, asking the gods for guidance, cleaning your clothes, etc. That's not how my game world is, and changing it over a level zero spell is not in the cards.
|
|
Exactly, I'm saying my conception of the game world is not one in which people are generally hassled for spellcasting. Many spells are routine self-buffs, healing, asking the gods for guidance, cleaning your clothes, etc. That's not how my game world is, and changing it over a level zero spell is not in the cards.
So what you're saying, as I read it, is that your players are behaving in a different way in-game, and you are refusing to alter your world to that? Cool. I see no problem adjusting the spell to 1st level to maintain the world in that case.
Nice strawman. How about 'that dude with the magic items is coming over to talk about how I'm waving my fingers at him'? Or just 'sir, I'm going to have to ask you to leave my establishment' from the bartender while he points to the 'no spellcasting' sign on the wall.Seriously, if the use of the spell is annoying you, roleplay it out with an annoyed NPC. :)
Yep.. if magic becomes dependable like technology, it will assume the role of technology as a driver of social change.
In my world, spellcasting at strangers is considered a form of assault. In sophisticated lands, you can be arrested and fined for it; if you are not killed when the target attacks in self-defense first. Other lands just leave it in the hands of the wronged party.
All of which is opposed by the rooms Perception checks and Sense Motive checks versus your Stealth checks and Bluff checks. And as Zappo pointed out, Detect Magic has somatic components, which means it's going to be hard to convince the pub that you're just 'stretching your arms' if they have any mystic knowledge at all.
You don't have to get in their faces and you're not using flash... It's like sitting in the corner and running your iPhone's video camera across the room. And that happens all the time, and no one objects. You don't even need to be clear you're using the videocamera, you can just be looking for a signal or playing a stupid game. kinda like they don't know you're detecting magic, you just cast a spell and now you're sitting there looking around the room, like other people do all the time.
I was about to write a post saying that I didn't think V/S components could be covered up with those skills, but then I really got to thinking about it.
Somatic components are a "measured and precise movement of the hand." Nothing says you can't do it under the table or behind your back. I suppose that would best be covered by Stealth or Slight of Hand vs. Perception check. Probably with circumstance bonuses (in favor of the caster) for it being a small detail to notice.
Verbal on the other hand is done in a strong voice. This one would be harder, IMHO, to cover up. The only thing that comes to mind would be a Bluff check to disguise it as a cough, or slip those magic words into other loud speech or yelling. Sense Motive or Perception would be the best checks for a character to realize that something wasn't quite right.
Either way, I'd force a Concentration check (that scales with Spell Level of course) to pull off these moves without blowing the spell. They might even be worthy of a feat (for both) or a trait (for one or the other), since I don't think it should be a common thing.
So in your games, no one can cast spells in public without being lynched? Somehow I doubt that.
That's a bit of a kneejerk exaggeration. In my games, spellcasting is generally obvious. If you were in a social situation, casting a spell out of the blue with no warning of intent could have serious consequences, even if the spell is benign.
It'd be just like pulling out a lighter for your cigarette that looks like a gun. If you're with friends, you might get a laugh. Casual strangers will probably be frightened for a moment, and give you odd looks for the rest of the evening. If there's a law-enforcement officer at the party you'll probably end up with a real gun pointed at you, while less savory and/or more twitchy folks might USE a real gun on you.
Detect magic only tells you the school(s) of magic involved, not the actual spells. So, yeah, you can tell the guy has an enchantment on him. But that could be anything from charm person to heroism. Yeah, he's got an illusion. But that could be anything from disguise self to ventriloquism.
Sure, it can be used to find invisible things, but considering you have to sit there and scan and concentrate for multiple, consecutive rounds, it's really a very, very poor alternative to see invisibility. And once discovered, the invisibile person can just move out of detect magic's cone and then the caster has to spend another two rounds scanning to find him again.
Further, because detect magic is a divination, it can be blocked or fooled by spells like Nondetection and Misdirection.
I really don't see a problem. Detect Magic is a very useful tool, but it's far from game-breaking.
Detect magic only tells you the school(s) of magic involved, not the actual spells. So, yeah, you can tell the guy has an enchantment on him. But that could be anything from charm person to heroism. Yeah, he's got an illusion. But that could be anything from disguise self to ventriloquism.
Sure, it can be used to find invisible things, but considering you have to sit there and scan and concentrate for multiple, consecutive rounds, it's really a very, very poor alternative to see invisibility. And once discovered, the invisibile person can just move out of detect magic's cone and then the caster has to spend another two rounds scanning to find him again.
Further, because detect magic is a divination, it can be blocked or fooled by spells like Nondetection and Misdirection.
I really don't see a problem. Detect Magic is a very useful tool, but it's far from game-breaking.
And it only tells you the school of spells that are within line of sight too. So if you are detecting through other objects it tells you only that there is magic in a location and the strength of the aura.
And monsters with transformation powers and whatnot, too, since anything Su/Sp detects as magic.
First off part of this is wrong. Just having powers doesn't detect as magic. Using the powers (if they are SU or SP) will detect (when they are used).
IF just having the powers then every caster in the world would light up under detect magic.
And monsters with transformation powers and whatnot, too, since anything Su/Sp detects as magic.
First off part of this is wrong. Just having powers doesn't detect as magic. Using the powers (if they are SU or SP) will detect (when they are used).
IF just having the powers then every caster in the world would light up under detect magic.
Yes, well, obviously I'm talking about ones that are transformed.
And yes, it doesn't identify specific spells well through walls, but that's not the problem I'm having.
One thing I have been thinking about here is, unless the wizard is in the lead, he will essentially always be perceiving magic ahead of him if the other party members have magic items on them. As the 1st round determines the presence of magic it will take him a full round to filter though the "interference" of the party member to determine if there is anything new.
This alone will help to deter over use with party members about.
One thing I have been thinking about here is, unless the wizard is in the lead, he will essentially always be perceiving magic ahead of him if the other party members have magic items on them. As the 1st round determines the presence of magic it will take him a full round to filter though the "interference" of the party member to determine if there is anything new.
This alone will help to deter over use with party members about.
Unless he's out in front...
...which invisible rogues just love. ^_-
Unless he's out in front...
...which invisible rogues just love. ^_-
"Nothing yet guys"
"Umm guys, I think I have a problem here..."
I don't have a problem with detect magic.
When my group switched to Pathfinder Beta, we had a "reality" shimmer where the past was modified to incorporate all of the rule changes. This meant that one of the changes was that people had been aware of the effects of detect magic.
So, the effects are that several dungeon and lairs of the bad guys have magic mouth spells cast all over the place, with impossible triggers (when the pink elephant dances on it's hind legs for twelve minutes) to negate the possibility of detect magic ruining/bypassing all the magical traps.
My players know that they have missed magic items due to magic aura being cast on them. The person who owns/owned these items doesn't need to be a mage, simply have one who is willing to cast them on their items every x days.
In my view, there are a fair bit of minor magics that exist to are used, from the hair circlet that keeps a lady's hair x color, without any gray showing (permanent hair dying going on so that she can remove it for a bit and still keep the look). There are items to heat the area, there are everlasting torches, etc.. This also includes magic mouths on non-magical gear to yell when they are being stolen. So, simply casting detect magic will not help you in identifying those that need to watched.
And as Pathos mentioned, unless the caster is out front, they will have trouble being able to tell when there is a new magic aura in the area, with all of the interference of the gear of those in front of them. How many mages would be willing to be leading the group from the front, as they concentrate on the spell (so having problems looking for other things, like mundane traps, ambushes, etc...)
To me, the issue still comes down to DMs being unwilling (or unable) to change their tactics. It's perfectly acceptable to add Magic Aura to your favorite trap/illusion in order to allow it to challenge your party. But instead, maybe try exercising your imagination to develop new challenges. It's actually kinda fun. Go ahead. Try it.
To me, the issue still comes down to DMs being unwilling (or unable) to change their tactics. It's perfectly acceptable to add Magic Aura to your favorite trap/illusion in order to allow it to challenge your party. But instead, maybe try exercising your imagination to develop new challenges. It's actually kinda fun. Go ahead. Try it.
Hi there!
I like that one... *evil giggle*
I like that one... *evil giggle*
Ditto. Over reliance on Detect Magic just screams "Use it against me!"
What tomb/dungeon/tower builder in a magical world wouldn't be prepared for the tactic?