Question about Pathfinder's retail success


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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meatrace wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:
Malaclypse wrote:
The APG will be available at gen con IF you're at gen con. For me I won't likely get a copy until September.

Just want to point out that the APG will also be available at all brick and mortar stores on the first day of GenCon as well. So nobody has it earlier than anybody else.

-Lisa

Just to make sure things are copacetic, that's me you meant to quote. And if this is the case then I will be ecstatic! And I mean like genuinely giddy, because I adore my local store and want to support them whenever possible. Clearly I don't know the inner workings of your distribution model, I just know that it certainly hasn't been the case so far with trying to get PF products from the FLGS. Though that might have much to do with unanticipated popularity of early print runs, hopefully you know now just how much we all love you!

My area has 2 FLGS. I know that for the orriginal core book, 1 had it in stock the first day and the other didn't get it in until the second. I'm guessing they use different distributers, some who are better than others.


Caineach wrote:
My area has 2 FLGS. I know that for the orriginal core book, 1 had it in stock the first day and the other didn't get it in until the second. I'm guessing they use different distributers, some who are better than others.

Our distributor is awesome actually, and the FLGS has a sort of close relationship to them (their CEO personally plays at the store, as do many other employees). The store put out flyers for pre-ordering Pathfinder and got 10 pre-orders. Thinking they were on the safe side they ordered 20 books. Didn't survive day one. Weren't able to get any more books until the second print run.

Some smaller products, like maps and the APs, I am told have taken an inordinate time to get in the hands of the distributor. This is all like 3rd degree hearsay though, but it's just the overall feel I get that the stores in my area have about Paizo.

Liberty's Edge

Joachim wrote:

Purely anecdotal, but at one of the FLGS here in Birmingham (Alabama, not England), the store owner indicated that he sold virtually none of the 4e stuff and couldn't get enough of the PFRPG product to keep up with demand.

As above, this is anecdotal and not at all scientific.

Same thing with the FLGS' I go to where I am, Cape Cod MA and south shore/ Boston. They can't keep the Pathfinder stuff on the shelf and the 4th ed stuff sits there.

I love the way Paizo stays in touch with the customer base. I feel that WOTC is doing it the wrong way buy keeping info secret and not letting the customers on there message boards know whats going on.

I also feel that Pathfinder is a much better system then 4th ed.. But that is a subject for another thread.


Just a short tale about my FLGS and the owners. I asked if we could move our game there back in Feb 2009 and we have been playing there since. Neither owner was very familiar with Paizo and Pathfinder when we started, but now both are regular players in other Pathfinder games outside of their store.

Just my 2 cp.

Liberty's Edge

Lisa Stevens wrote:
Malaclypse wrote:
The APG will be available at gen con IF you're at gen con. For me I won't likely get a copy until September.

Just want to point out that the APG will also be available at all brick and mortar stores on the first day of GenCon as well. So nobody has it earlier than anybody else.

-Lisa

I thought subscribers sometimes got it a little earlier, or at least the pdf anyways? That's why I went ahead and subscribed. [Pouts]

Of course, either way, I love you guys and want to support you through what you probably see as a more reliable revenue stream.


Jeremiziah wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:
Malaclypse wrote:
The APG will be available at gen con IF you're at gen con. For me I won't likely get a copy until September.

Just want to point out that the APG will also be available at all brick and mortar stores on the first day of GenCon as well. So nobody has it earlier than anybody else.

-Lisa

I thought subscribers sometimes got it a little earlier, or at least the pdf anyways? That's why I went ahead and subscribed. [Pouts]

Of course, either way, I love you guys and want to support you through what you probably see as a more reliable revenue stream.

Gen Con time is that special time of the year. It only happens once a year and that is when the wonderful folks at Paizo unveil their new stuff to the world. I can't blame them for wanting to have everyone have the chance to see it all at once.

Shadow Lodge

Jeremiziah wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:
Malaclypse wrote:
The APG will be available at gen con IF you're at gen con. For me I won't likely get a copy until September.

Just want to point out that the APG will also be available at all brick and mortar stores on the first day of GenCon as well. So nobody has it earlier than anybody else.

-Lisa

I thought subscribers sometimes got it a little earlier, or at least the pdf anyways? That's why I went ahead and subscribed. [Pouts]

Of course, either way, I love you guys and want to support you through what you probably see as a more reliable revenue stream.

Last year many of us got the book a few days before gencon, in a few cases a full week. I don't think they are going to do it that way again. If I were a betting man I would bet that it's in the grubby pizza stained hands of most subscribers before it was available retail but maybe not by much.


Adam Daigle wrote:
Dance, monkey!

Dances

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Christopher Dudley wrote:
A friend of mine has a copy of the 4e Player's Handbook 1 in Japanese.

Speaking of languages, is Pathfinder available in Japanese? How would I find a copy?

Sovereign Court

bigkilla wrote:
Hobbun wrote:
I don’t know what it is with the state of Washington in regards to game companies, but Nintendo, WotC and at least Paizo have headquarters there. Lucky for the gamers who live there.

Its the rain, it forces everyone inside to where there is nothing better to do than to play video games and RPG.

** spoiler omitted **

I am so moving there now.


Sharoth wrote:
Jeremiziah wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:
Malaclypse wrote:
The APG will be available at gen con IF you're at gen con. For me I won't likely get a copy until September.

Just want to point out that the APG will also be available at all brick and mortar stores on the first day of GenCon as well. So nobody has it earlier than anybody else.

-Lisa

I thought subscribers sometimes got it a little earlier, or at least the pdf anyways? That's why I went ahead and subscribed. [Pouts]

Of course, either way, I love you guys and want to support you through what you probably see as a more reliable revenue stream.

Gen Con time is that special time of the year. It only happens once a year and that is when the wonderful folks at Paizo unveil their new stuff to the world. I can't blame them for wanting to have everyone have the chance to see it all at once.

Vic Wertz said in another thread that subscribers were getting the PDF early as usual; the wait for the Core book last year was a one-time deal.


What amazes me about this whole retail success debate is that it was mentioned on another forum that Paizo only had 26 full time staff a few months ago compared to many more employed by WOTC (not really sure what numbers they employ for 4e). That Paizo manage to produce so much quantity and quality Pathfinder product in the short time they've been around with so few staff is mind boggling. I'm glad they're doing so well in the fantasy RPG market and I wouldn't be surprised to see them steal more of the pie in the near future.

Shadow Lodge

c873788 wrote:
What amazes me about this whole retail success debate is that it was mentioned on another forum that Paizo only had 26 full time staff a few months ago compared to many more employed by WOTC (not really sure what numbers they employ for 4e). That Paizo manage to produce so much quantity and quality Pathfinder product in the short time they've been around with so few staff is mind boggling. I'm glad they're doing so well in the fantasy RPG market and I wouldn't be surprised to see them steal more of the pie in the near future.

Seems like there are fewer WotC folks every few months and the number of Paizo people has been slowly growing.

It's not sales numbers but it says something.


I had a an almost surreal experience 2 days ago at my local Chapters (think Canadian version of Barnes & Nobles but smaller). On the shelf in the Games section, 3 copies of Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, 3 of the Bestiary, and 2 of the Gamemastery Guide. I was floored. I mean, this is a plain vanilla branch usually. They stick to the bestseller lists in what they stock, and anything off the main path, they show you how to order online, or order in for you. The fact that they have multiples of the Pathfinder books on display made me glow with pride. If they ordered them for the shelf, its cause they've been clobbered on the head by someone farther up the chain to do so, which implies to me the game continues to gain traction. Unfortunately, my campaign for Planet Stories on the shelf (in this branch) remains unsuccessful, but perhaps this provides me with another new opening to push at...


Yes, Daeglin! Me too! Just 3 days ago I was in my Red Deer Chapters and there was the Gamemasters Guide! It's the first time I've ever seen anything but 4e in there! I found the manager and told him how pleased I was and that if he kept getting new product he'd have a steady customer in me!

- Senator

Shadow Lodge

My local Barnes and Noble had a few adventure paths (strangely the second book of Second Darkness and the Second Darkness player companion) but no hardcovers. I'll check back and see, haven't been there in a few weeks.

Paizo Employee CEO

MisterSlanky wrote:

[As another Twin Cities native I can say that the effect of Pathfinder on The Source (easily the largest game store in the area) has been extremely noticeable). A year ago they had some Pathfinder product, but when I stopped in a week or so ago the change was pretty dramatic. They've been given easily an equally important spot in the store as their 4E line of product (which as others have noticed exists in stacks).

They have yet to implement Society games (I know, something I should try to do), but they do have a nightly Pathfinder game (every night except Saturday) that is being very heavily advertised.

A little closer to my neck of the woods Dreamers also has a pretty solid collection of Pathfinder Material and when I spoke to the store owner she indicated that it's been selling quite well.

The Source emailed us to let us know that they asked their customers to vote for which RPG game would be the focus for their summer game sessions and that Pathfinder won hands down. This was a very nice accolade for us from perhaps the largest and best run store in the US.

-Lisa

Dark Archive

The nearest Borders or was it a barnes and Nobles? I always mix them up. Anyways the last time i went they had the hardback Pathfinder books and a few AP's. They had a lot more 4e stuff though. But their gaming section has been steadily shrinking over the years. At one point it was 2 full units shelves. Now it is just 2 shelves on a single unit, for all the gaming stuff.

Paizo Employee CEO

0gre wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:
Malaclypse wrote:
The APG will be available at gen con IF you're at gen con. For me I won't likely get a copy until September.

Just want to point out that the APG will also be available at all brick and mortar stores on the first day of GenCon as well. So nobody has it earlier than anybody else.

-Lisa

Well I'm hoping subscribers will have it a little earlier and if history repeats Amazon buyers will have it much later.

We actually try to send out the subscriptions runs so that they arrive as close to the release date as possible. Of course, UPS and the USPS can't be controlled, so some folks get their early and others a bit later. But we try to hit the release date using the transit times that our shipping companies give us. Of course, you get the PDF when we ship your sub to you, so technically you get it a bit early.

-Lisa

Dark Archive

Lilith wrote:
DaveMage wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:
Lisa wins the thread.
But can she dance to it?
She's the CEO. She can get one of her minions to dance for her. :P

I could dance for her... naked!

I bet Lisa hasn't yet seen my infamous Dwarven Beard Dance...

Paizo Employee CEO

Asgetrion wrote:
Lilith wrote:
DaveMage wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:
Lisa wins the thread.
But can she dance to it?
She's the CEO. She can get one of her minions to dance for her. :P

I could dance for her... naked!

I bet Lisa hasn't yet seen my infamous Dwarven Beard Dance...

Akkkk! My eyes! My brain! Too much info! Out damned spot!

-Lisa


I think what really helps Pathfinder once it has a presence in the brick and mortar shops is the artwork and graphic design. If you browse through both 4e and PF books, PF wins hands down. While there is quite some good art in the 4e too, the books just feel ... cold, with all the white space.

Scarab Sages

Lisa Stevens wrote:
Of course, UPS and the USPS can't be controlled....

The post office needs a new slogan. How about:

USPS: And you thought Cthulhu was evil.


Aberzombie wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:
Of course, UPS and the USPS can't be controlled....

The post office needs a new slogan. How about:

USPS: And you thought Cthulhu was evil.

At least the USPS delivers on Saturdays. For now.


Senator wrote:

As a relative newcomer to these boards may I just say:

WHAT THE HELL WAS ALL THAT?

Confused, as always I remain

- Senator

Some people are extraordinarily sensitive to any discussion comparing the relative merits of the two game systems. If someone says, "Pathfinder is better than 4e in X ways", there are people who are going to get into crying hysterics over it.

I keep forgetting that and I keep trying to have a rational argument about the relative merits of the two game systems. That can't be done in these boards, because, as I said, some people are going to go into crying hysterics over it. So, the best choice of action really is not to just avoid edition warring, but to stay as far away from even a rational discussion of the comparative merits of the game systems.
Unfortunate, because I think the subject certainly has content worth considering.

Scarab Sages

Senator wrote:

As a relative newcomer to these boards may I just say:

WHAT THE HELL WAS ALL THAT?

Confused, as always I remain

- Senator

Or, trolls get cranky when people refuse to agree with them.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

deinol wrote:
Adam Daigle wrote:
Lisa wins the thread.

That's not fair, she always wins the thread!

Although some places (international markets) probably take a little longer to get their copies. Also, who knows how long Amazon will take to get into gear after the release.

Lisa OWNS the thread, of course she wins it.


LilithsThrall wrote:


Some people are extraordinarily sensitive to any discussion comparing the relative merits of the two game systems. If someone says, "Pathfinder is better than 4e in X ways", there are people who are going to get into crying hysterics over it.

I keep forgetting that and I keep trying to have a rational argument about the relative merits of the two game systems. That can't be done in these boards, because, as I said, some people are going to go into crying hysterics over it. So, the best choice of action really is not to just avoid edition warring, but to stay as far away from even a rational discussion of the comparative merits of the game systems.
Unfortunate, because I think the subject certainly has content worth considering.

* (out of *****)


Aberzombie wrote:
Or, trolls get cranky when people refuse to agree with them.

YOU MUST AGREE!!! GARRRRRRRARGH!!!!!

Scarab Sages

Unfortunately, the town I'm at is lacking an FLGS, but the Hasting's store is a 1/2 decent replacement. When Pathfinder launched, I don't know if they had anything but pre-orders, as I never saw the PRPG book there until second printing. They now keep about 2 steady copies of each of the 'rules' line books in stock. Unfortunately, there have been the same 5/6 books of Rise of the Runelords sitting on the shelf for the last two years (i won't buy all of them w/o skinsaw murders to complete the set!), with a good 4 of the books of second darkness there as well. They do, though, seem to have an OK turnover for their small selection of 'chronicles' line books.

The store, though, does devote about 3x as much shelf space to 4e, having about the same inventory (2-3) copies of many 'current' hardbacks. They also have a few of the nice box set PHB+DMG+MM combos. Probably what takes up the most room, however is the few dozen WoD books and various new and used Green Ronin and Necromancer Games hardbacks.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

bugleyman wrote:
LilithsThrall wrote:


Some people are extraordinarily sensitive to any discussion comparing the relative merits of the two game systems. If someone says, "Pathfinder is better than 4e in X ways", there are people who are going to get into crying hysterics over it.

I keep forgetting that and I keep trying to have a rational argument about the relative merits of the two game systems. That can't be done in these boards, because, as I said, some people are going to go into crying hysterics over it. So, the best choice of action really is not to just avoid edition warring, but to stay as far away from even a rational discussion of the comparative merits of the game systems.
Unfortunate, because I think the subject certainly has content worth considering.

* (out of *****)

Ok, this is scary.

Lilithsthrall has actually gotten me and buggly to AGREE on something.

"Somewhere, several Christian Hells have frozen over." Theodore Kurita.


LilithsThrall wrote:


Some people are extraordinarily sensitive to any discussion comparing the relative merits of the two game systems. If someone says, "Pathfinder is better than 4e in X ways", there are people who are going to get into crying hysterics over it.

I keep forgetting that and I keep trying to have a rational argument about the relative merits of the two game systems. That can't be done in these boards, because, as I said, some people are going to go into crying hysterics over it. So, the best choice of action really is not to just avoid edition warring, but to stay as far away from even a rational discussion of the comparative merits of the game systems.
Unfortunate, because I think the subject certainly has content worth considering.

I think what makes people from both parties upset is that when people say "X is better then X" and then go on to say something that either oversimplifies the aspect or even sounds insulting to those who play X. It sometimes seems like people say those things to start something or they have a chip on their shoulder for not liking the particular system, and then you get irrational arguements. This is nothing really new, as people will always be rooting for their "team" and as you say some people are overly sensitive. Its very difficult to have a discussion like that in the first place on message boards, which is sad, but there's not that much you can do about it. To have a discussion like that, you have to risk a massive flame war...maybe its worth it or maybe not.


Amael wrote:


I think what makes people from both parties upset is that when people say "X is better then X" and then go on to say something that either oversimplifies the aspect or even sounds insulting to those who play X. It sometimes seems like people say those things to start something or they have a chip on their shoulder for not liking the particular system, and then you get irrational arguements. This is nothing really new, as people will always be rooting for their "team" and as you say some people are overly sensitive. Its very difficult to have a discussion like that in the first place on message boards, which is sad, but there's not that much you can do about it. To have a discussion like that, you have to risk a massive flame war...maybe its worth it or maybe not.

Exactly

And it's a point I'm prone to forget because, as an INTP, I love to deconstruct and analyze stuff without regard to someone's sacred cow.

At the end of the day, I've posted that I was going to let this drop and, after I did that, a long list of people continued to cherry pick my comments and continued pushing the argument forward.
I'm here to say that I'm going to let this drop. If people want to keep it going (as was in evidence after I dropped it the first time), then I'll oblige, but, really, it's up to the people in this thread as to what they are really after.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

James Jacobs wrote:
AKA: Edition Wars are one of the few ways to get me to lock threads, so don't do them.

Long Live the Edition Wars!

The area I live in (San Diego County) is pretty heavily 4th Edition dominated, but Paizo is making inroads.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Guys, really, this is a thread about Pathfinder's RETAIL success, not anything else. Like, stay on the topic, because it's really an interesting one.


Malaclypse wrote:
I think what really helps Pathfinder once it has a presence in the brick and mortar shops is the artwork and graphic design. If you browse through both 4e and PF books, PF wins hands down. While there is quite some good art in the 4e too, the books just feel ... cold, with all the white space.

I find Paizo's design and artwork much better than Wizards. Witness the Demonomicon whose cover was in the store blog a few days ago; I assume it was a vrock. It was too cartoony -- looked like Toucan Sam. Then compare with Paizo's Book of the Damned, Part 1, which I didn't even want. (We never do much with outsiders in my games.) The cover was just so dang gorgeous I had to buy it anyway. So ... beautiful.... Must .. own....

archmagi1 wrote:
Unfortunately, the town I'm at is lacking an FLGS, but the Hasting's store is a 1/2 decent replacement. When Pathfinder launched, I don't know if they had anything but pre-orders, as I never saw the PRPG book there until second printing. They now keep about 2 steady copies of each of the 'rules' line books in stock. Unfortunately, there have been the same 5/6 books of Rise of the Runelords sitting on the shelf for the last two years (i won't buy all of them w/o skinsaw murders to complete the set!), with a good 4 of the books of second darkness there as well.

Dude, they have Burnt Offerings?!? Buy it! It's out of print; even if you don't want to run it, you can make a killing on eBay.


Amael wrote:
"X is better then X"

[scratches head, looking quizzical]

Milk is better than milk?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Joana wrote:
Malaclypse wrote:
I think what really helps Pathfinder once it has a presence in the brick and mortar shops is the artwork and graphic design. If you browse through both 4e and PF books, PF wins hands down. While there is quite some good art in the 4e too, the books just feel ... cold, with all the white space.

I find Paizo's design and artwork much better than Wizards. Witness the Demonomicon whose cover was in the store blog a few days ago; I assume it was a vrock. It was too cartoony -- looked like Toucan Sam. Then compare with Paizo's Book of the Damned, Part 1, which I didn't even want. (We never do much with outsiders in my games.) The cover was just so dang gorgeous I had to buy it anyway. So ... beautiful.... Must .. own....

archmagi1 wrote:
Unfortunately, the town I'm at is lacking an FLGS, but the Hasting's store is a 1/2 decent replacement. When Pathfinder launched, I don't know if they had anything but pre-orders, as I never saw the PRPG book there until second printing. They now keep about 2 steady copies of each of the 'rules' line books in stock. Unfortunately, there have been the same 5/6 books of Rise of the Runelords sitting on the shelf for the last two years (i won't buy all of them w/o skinsaw murders to complete the set!), with a good 4 of the books of second darkness there as well.
Dude, they have Burnt Offerings?!? Buy it! It's out of print; even if you don't want to run it, you can make a killing on eBay.

Actually, all of them would do well on E-Bay. (And Paizo still has the hardcopy verions of the Skinsaw Murders!) - Yes, I do realize that you will be burtalized by the International Shipping and VAT, but you can make it happen if you wanted to.


Obvious Troll Is Obvious wrote:
Amael wrote:
"X is better then X"

[scratches head, looking quizzical]

Milk is better than milk?

lol ok ok, I failed at math, but what did math ever do?

Joana wrote:


I find Paizo's design and artwork much better than Wizards. Witness the Demonomicon whose cover was in the store blog a few days ago; I assume it was a vrock. It was too cartoony -- looked like Toucan Sam. Then compare with Paizo's Book of the Damned, Part 1, which I didn't even want. (We never do much with outsiders in my games.) The cover was just so dang gorgeous I had to buy it anyway. So ... beautiful.... Must .. own....

I would say that I like the art direction that Paizo has taken with the art that they have in their books. In comparison to 4e's books, design-wise I would say Pathfinder hands down when it comes to the presentation, and in general I like their interior art more. As far as the interior art goes, their influnences are more along things I like.


Joana wrote:

I find Paizo's design and artwork much better than Wizards. Witness the Demonomicon whose cover was in the store blog a few days ago; I assume it was a vrock. It was too cartoony -- looked like Toucan Sam. Then compare with Paizo's Book of the Damned, Part 1, which I didn't even want. (We never do much with outsiders in my games.) The cover was just so dang gorgeous I had to buy it anyway. So ... beautiful.... Must .. own....

You can't say you think Pathfinder has better art. Its edition warring.


LilithsThrall wrote:
You can't say you think Pathfinder has better art. Its edition warring.

I think that the quality of Paizo's art has contributed to the overall success of the line, and is a big contributor toward it's commercial success.

How's that?

Shadow Lodge

Lisa Stevens wrote:

The Source emailed us to let us know that they asked their customers to vote for which RPG game would be the focus for their summer game sessions and that Pathfinder won hands down. This was a very nice accolade for us from perhaps the largest and best run store in the US.

-Lisa

Bob and crew run an absolutely fantastic game store and they have for a long time now. I made sure to let them know I was appreciative of their Pathfinder support since day one and I've deliberately not taken a module subscription so I can show my support for you to them by buying from The Source. They continue to advertise their nightly Pathfinder game in the weekly newsletter, so the word is going out there fast.

What I need to do is get over there and start running Pathfinder Society games, I think they'd be more than supportive of the idea.


Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
MisterSlanky wrote:
Lisa Stevens wrote:

The Source emailed us to let us know that they asked their customers to vote for which RPG game would be the focus for their summer game sessions and that Pathfinder won hands down. This was a very nice accolade for us from perhaps the largest and best run store in the US.

-Lisa

Bob and crew run an absolutely fantastic game store and they have for a long time now. I made sure to let them know I was appreciative of their Pathfinder support since day one and I've deliberately not taken a module subscription so I can show my support for you to them by buying from The Source. They continue to advertise their nightly Pathfinder game in the weekly newsletter, so the word is going out there fast.

What I need to do is get over there and start running Pathfinder Society games, I think they'd be more than supportive of the idea.

The Source has signs up all over the store advertising their weekly Pathfinder game as well, unfortunately it is on a bad night for me, but I would really like to get over there for at least one session. Oh well I will just have to settle for going in and looking at all of the games.


Christopher Dudley wrote:
Speaking of languages, is Pathfinder available in Japanese? How would I find a copy?

I don't think it is, but there's a wiki with some translations: http://www29.atwiki.jp/prdj/pages/40.html

Here's a related thread (contains a link to a guy's blog that discusses RPGs in Japan):
PLAYING PATHFINDER IN JAPAN


I typically only respond off topic in regards to 4E when someone states it can't support a concept, and I feel it does. I am not a 4E evangelist, because that system has problems just like 3.5 and pathfinder.

Art is also subjective, but Pathfinder has recieved multiple accolades for that alone, so it speaks for itself. I also think it's art work is distinct from other products (or at least consistent). But artwork from wizards is equally thought provoking. I expect others will strongly disagree, just based on related threads.

From my perspective, I believe Pathfinder's biggest strength is a single world, adventure paths, and organized play, so those are items I hope WOTC improves on. But Hasbro may have other ideas. 4E will not be 3.5 compatible so pathfinder wins there hands down.

I will also make the suggestion again that Paizo should implement a focused product for character and monster building just like WOTC (stand alone or subscription based). It would use the 4E tools as a model for ease of use.


Uchawi wrote:

I typically only respond off topic in regards to 4E when someone states it can't support a concept, and I feel it does. I am not a 4E evangelist, because that system has problems just like 3.5 and pathfinder.

Art is also subjective, but Pathfinder has recieved multiple accolades for that alone, so it speaks for itself. I also think it's art work is distinct from other products (or at least consistent). But artwork from wizards is equally thought provoking. I expect others will strongly disagree, just based on related threads.

From my perspective, I believe Pathfinder's biggest strength is a single world, adventure paths, and organized play, so those are items I hope WOTC improves on. But Hasbro may have other ideas. 4E will not be 3.5 compatible so pathfinder wins there hands down.

I will also make the suggestion again that Paizo should implement a focused product for character and monster building just like WOTC (stand alone or subscription based). It would use the 4E tools as a model for ease of use.

It's been decided by the people in this thread that comparing the two game systems is edit warring. That's what you've done in your post. Please stop.


Matthew Morris wrote:


Ok, this is scary.

Lilithsthrall has actually gotten me and buggly to AGREE on something.

"Somewhere, several Christian Hells have frozen over." Theodore Kurita.

I know, right? :P

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
LilithsThrall wrote:

It's been decided by the people in this thread that comparing the two game systems is edit warring. That's what you've done in your post. Please stop.

Edit warring ... DAMN, somebody discovered that I hacked Paizo's server and can edit posts of other people !

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