Help me pick a "katana"


Pathfinder Society


So I'm pondering a fighter concept for PFS: a Minkai samurai, brought to Avistan and to the Pathfidner Society for reasons that don't really bear here. The concept was largely inspired by the Heirloom Weapon trait; the first thought I had when I read the trait was how well it worked to model the "cult of the katana" that fantasy samurai often seem to participate in - even to the extent that, should he lose his katana, I plan to use the nonproficiency penalty he would suffer with another version of the weapon as a reflection of the shame he feels for having lost the weapon.

So the idea is to choose a family katana for the character via the trait and go with it. The problem I'm having is: which weapon should I choose?

Traditionally - I think the "tradition" goes back as far as the 3.0 GMG - d20 has described a katana as a masterwork bastard sword, but Pathfinder offers a few other options that might also work. What I want from the katana is:

* finesse-able
* largest crit range/multiplier I can get
* useable (possibly with restrictions) with either one or two hands
* largest damage die I can get

I don't think I can get all of these in one weapon, so I need to pick something to "reskin" as katana. The options I have thought of so far include:

* bastard sword
* Aldori dueling sword
* falcata
* elven curve blade
* sawtooth saber

Anyone got any suggestions?

Sovereign Court 1/5

I think the dueling sword is going to get you closest to your requirements, though the curve blade sounded perfect until I got to the list.


RtrnofdMax wrote:
I think the dueling sword is going to get you closest to your requirements, though the curve blade sounded perfect until I got to the list.

Because it's two-hands-only?

Sovereign Court

Traditonally a Katana used the same stats as the bastard sword.

Sovereign Court 1/5

Carpy DM wrote:
RtrnofdMax wrote:
I think the dueling sword is going to get you closest to your requirements, though the curve blade sounded perfect until I got to the list.
Because it's two-hands-only?

Yes. Eliminate that requirement and you have a clear cut winner.

The Exchange 2/5

I'd be partial to scimitar with the dervish dance feat. This could only be used one handed, though.
It has a better crit range and you get to add your dex to damage as well as to hit.


teribithia9 wrote:

I'd be partial to scimitar with the dervish dance feat. This could only be used one handed, though.

It has a better crit range and you get to add your dex to damage as well as to hit.

And I also have to have Perform (dance) and I can't get it until 2nd level. I thought of that option, but it just doesn't work for me.

Sovereign Court 2/5

The Aldori dueling sword is what you want. The damage die for a katana shouldn't be any larger than a longsword's damage die as they are of comparable length and mass. The Aldori sword gives a higher (x3) crit mod which better simulates the keener edge of a katana. Also, the Aldori sword is both finessable and able to be used either one handed or two handed. Finally, if you read the parts about the Aldori sword schools, you see they are very much in the Iajitsu style of dueling. I think they had the katana in mind when they designed the Alsori dueling sword (just my guess).

Sovereign Court 1/5

That's the Falcata that has x3. There was a transposition in the original book text that has been clarified. Read the flavor for the Falcata and you will see why it gets x3.


Galahad0430 wrote:
The Aldori dueling sword is what you want. The damage die for a katana shouldn't be any larger than a longsword's damage die as they are of comparable length and mass. The Aldori sword gives a higher (x3) crit mod which better simulates the keener edge of a katana. Also, the Aldori sword is both finessable and able to be used either one handed or two handed. Finally, if you read the parts about the Aldori sword schools, you see they are very much in the Iajitsu style of dueling. I think they had the katana in mind when they designed the Alsori dueling sword (just my guess).

As Rtrn already noted, the dueling sword has the same crit stats as a longsword - it is, in effect, a longsword that is finesse-able and nothing more.

I am still kinda leaning that way, though.

Sovereign Court 2/5

Arrrgh!!! Hadn't downloaded the erratta for AA yet. Very sad that my sword goes back to x2 :(

Lantern Lodge 3/5

The falcata is a blend of sword and axe ... extra material was added to the end of the blade to make for a weapon which yields devastating wounds, but somewhat less graceful than other blades. It doesn't sounds very katana-like.

Just my 2 coppers.

Sovereign Court

I have a player's character that wanted a Katana and went the bastard sword route along with an exotic weapon proficiency.

Not seeing why your attaching conditions, some of which look like an effort to get a "better" weapon which seem too power gamer to me. The one or two hands is dealt with by standard rules. Don't see a need for finessable aka light, it's not historic anyhow (use a Wakizachi for that).

The elven curved blade from beta was the sword you're looking for but it was toned down (fortunately) for release.

1/5

Just a heads up. I don't think Josh has said anything since This Post, but it's very possible that the Heirloom Weapon trait will be removed from the 'allowed list' when the new Guide to Organized Play comes out. Which will probably happen in the next few weeks before GenCon.

Dark Archive

Here this should help you get a better understanding about katanas in d20.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Wolfthulhu wrote:
Just a heads up. I don't think Josh has said anything since This Post, but it's very possible that the Heirloom Weapon trait will be removed from the 'allowed list' when the new Guide to Organized Play comes out. Which will probably happen in the next few weeks before GenCon.

Since Gen Con is now two and a half weeks away and "few" would imply three, should we start a betting pool on when things will come out.

;-)

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Jared Ouimette wrote:
Here this should help you get a better understanding about katanas in d20.

That was honestly one of the funniest D&D related things I've read in a long time...

Sovereign Court 1/5

Jared Ouimette wrote:
Here this should help you get a better understanding about katanas in d20.

Flagged as adult content by my work filter. Just a warning to those of you surf these boards at lunch time.

Dark Archive

RtrnofdMax wrote:
Jared Ouimette wrote:
Here this should help you get a better understanding about katanas in d20.
Flagged as adult content by my work filter. Just a warning to those of you surf these boards at lunch time.

Here's a few samples:

ELVEN BREAD IS UNDERPOWERED IN D20

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Bread" b&!#&$@$ that's going on in the d20 system right now. Elven bread deserves much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine elven bread in the Elven Forest for 2,400,000 pieces of bark (that's about 20,000 gp) and have been eating it for almost 2 years now. I can even feed a dwarf with my elven bread.

Elven bakers spend years working on a single elven bread and bake it up to a million times to produce the finest bread known to mankind.

Elven bread is thrice as tasty as human bread and thrice as nutritive for that matter too. Anything a human bread can feed, an elven bread can feed better. I'm pretty sure an elven bread could easily feed a knight wearing full plate with a simple loaf.

Ever wonder why the Human Kingdom never bothered conquering the Elven Forest? That's right, they were bribed by the disciplined Breadmasters and their elven breads of deliciousness. Even in the Second Great War, dwarf soldiers targeted the men with the elven bread first because they couldn't resist the smell.

So what am I saying? Elven bread is simply the best bread that the world has ever seen, and thus, requires better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for elven bread:

1 lb elven bread (20 daily rations) +20 deliciousness +20 saves against poison and disease for a day

Now that seems a lot more representative of the feeding power of elven bread in real life, don't you think?

tl;dr = Elven bread needs to be tastier in d20, see my new stat block

POLAR BEARS ARE UNDERPOWERED IN D20

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Bear" b$!$*@&$ that's going on in the d20 system right now. Polarbears deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine polarbear in Stockholm for 42 crowns (that's about $6) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my polarbear.

Swedes spend weeks working on a single polarbear and sharpen the glaws up to a dozen times to produce the finest bears known to mankind.

Polerbears are thrice as sharp as american bears and thrice as hard for that matter to. Anything a bear can cut through, a polarbear can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a macuahuitl could easily bisect a walruss wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.

Ever wonder why penguins never bothered conquering the north pole? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined polarbears and their claws of destruction. Even in Happy feet, Penguins targeted the polarbears first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? polarbears are simply the best bears that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for polarbears and polarbear cavalry:

(Exotic Large Animal) Str 24, Dex 9, Con 23, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2 Counts as Masterwork

(Exotic Large Mount) Str 24, Dex 9, Con 23, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2 Counts as Masterwork

Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of polarbear in real life, don't you think?

tl;dr = Polarbears need to do more damage in d20, see my new stat block.

MACUAHUITL ARE UNDERPOWERED IN D20

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Bastard Sword" b+&@!#@+ that's going on in the d20 system right now. Macuahuitl deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine macuahuitl in Tenochtitlan for two goats and three sacks of cacao beans (that's about $6,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my macuahuitl.

Aztec smiths spend weeks working on a single macuahuitl and sharpen the edges up to a dozen times to produce the finest weapons known to mankind.

Macuahuitl are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter to. Anything a longsword can cut through, a macuahuitl can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a macuahuitl could easily bisect a Spanish conquistador wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.

Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Central America? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Aztecs and their macuahuitl of destruction. Even in the sixteenth century, Spanish explorers targeted the macuahuitl-wielding Aztecs with smallpox-infected blankets first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? Macuahuitl are simply the best swords that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for macuahuitl:

(One-Handed Exotic Weapon) 1d12 Damage 19-20 x4 Crit +2 to hit and damage Counts as Masterwork

(Two-Handed Exotic Weapon) 2d10 Damage 17-20 x4 Crit +5 to hit and damage Counts as Masterwork

Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of macuahuitl in real life, don't you think?

tl;dr = Macuahuitl need to do more damage in d20, see my new stat block.

Sovereign Court 1/5

Darn it!

Don't do an image search for macuahuitl's either cuz you will set it off too.


RtrnofdMax wrote:

Darn it!

Don't do an image search for macuahuitl's either cuz you will set it off too.

4WFG includes a Macuahuitl, a grosse messer, and kriegsmesser (which is very katana-ish) in Albion Armitage's Astounding Arsenal.

We also did the katana (and a full samurai class) in Paths of Power. We used the same stats for the katana as a masterwork bastard sword, because that is what it is: it's a very well crafted sword with a total length around 40-42 inches, used in both hands, unless you've taken special training to use it in one hand. A bastard sword usually has 32-34 inches of blade and 6-8 inches of grip; a katana usually has 28-31 inches of blade and 10-12 inches of grip. They are close enough in performance to require no other changes.

A katana is NOT a finesse weapon. It uses drawing cuts in which the length of the blade is pulled across a target. Rapiers, small swords, daggers - these are finesse weapons. Basically, any weapon which uses a lot of precision wrist techniques instead of from the shoulder or hips (most katana cuts draw power from the hips and lower trunk).

Community / Forums / Organized Play / Pathfinder Society / Help me pick a "katana" All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Pathfinder Society