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My group just finished the possessed dire ape encounter. It was really great and everyone enjoyed the challenge.
They had an oracle with a spell like ability that was daylight. She cast it and the demon fled. The moment the daylight spell ran out it was replaced by a deeper darkness spell and the entire fight was in the pitch black. The demon didn't feel like playing too much because of the daylight spell.
It then took a long time to down it, including a very smitey paladin. :) It was awesome! They all lived, but the Oracle almost bit it.
Some updates with my group running through this.
With regard to the factions, the PCs teetered back and forth between the Pathfinders and the Government. They ruled out the Aspis Consortium because no one in the party really liked Ishiro, and everyone was scared to work with the Red Mantis. I think I must have ruined the role-play with Kassata Lewyn and the Free Captains, as the party thought she was crazy and allying with her would have killed them all. They finally settled on the Pathfinder Society, despite their dislike for Gelik. It was the slavery thing that turned them off to working with the government.
I've been using Pezock as an NPC companion to the party. Since he kinda hung out with the group upon their arrival in Eleder, when the Pathfinders came calling, they assumed Pezock was with them, so he got picked up as well. I roleplayed Gelik as getting a big head and assuming he was the party's mentor in the Pathfinder Society. When the party's fighter started degrading him, Gelik attempted to Charm the fighter, but the player wasn't going to have any of that and used a Hero Point and blew the Will Save out of the water, and then proceeded to throw Gelik out and make sure he knew he was no longer welcome. This works out as the fighter's backstory involves him being hunted for murder (when the fighter killed his sister's rapist) and wanted by the Hell Knights. Gelik is going to run straight to them and let them know where the fighter is.
The combat against the insurgents and Umagro was quite climatic. It ended with the party's rogue detonating 17 flasks of Alchemist's Fire all at once, and Umagro being completely consumed in a fiery conflagration. Will definitely go down as a memorable moment in our group's gaming history.
The challenges to recruit Nkechi went smoothly. Challenge of Wind was done first, with the party's druid Wild Shaping into a dimorphodon. The Stormbird came back to her nest as he was making good his escape, and I can tell you that it takes a long time to Glide down 500 feet. The kelpie was unsuccessful in her lure attempt, and the party's fighter and druid made short work of her. The dream trance reminded everyone of the Big Lebowski, and other than a few new nicknames based on the animals, wasn't that great. I'm playing Nkechi as slightly unhinged. And also something of a nudist. Kinda like a pot smoking senior who lived a bit too hard in the 60's.
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Here is a sheet I created to try and track random encounters, the PCs position during race and the relative position of all other factions. You'll also find on another tab the random generator used for the encounters. You have to paste "values only" when you generate a set of encounters.
Link -> Racing to Ruin Tracking Summary
My group hasn't arrived at Eleder yet, but I am preparing for module 2. This is still a work in progress.
The sheet has the position of each of the encounters in the module (from Fzumi mines to Spirit Dancers) on one row. The random encounters are highlighted yellow using conditional formatting. I like the idea of enhancing the "race" aspect, so I created a section with the relative position of every faction. In the link above, if we assume that my PC's faction is the Pathfinders they are on day 6 of their travel. They would have passed the Fzumi mines and now find themselves potentially in an encounter with the Mantis expedition.
I was wondering how other DMs played these types of encounters?
Man, I wish you had posted in here a few months ago so I could use your tracking sheets for both Smuggler's Shiv and this adventure. I'm too far into it to change it up, now.
I made the general assumption that every expedition was going down a slightly different route to reach Tazion. The Free Captains, for example, took the rivers, while the Aspis Consortium tried a northerly route. That way we could avoid random encounters with other trailblazer parties and keep things moving along. I figured I'd just calculate when the PCs arrive based on their own travel times, and adjust according to how well they handled certain encounters or how long they lingered when they didn't have to. Sorta, free form it.
Most of the random encounters have been pretty bland and the adventure seems like it would drag on if not helped a lot by the GM, so I've been playing up the interaction between NPCs. The party is currently traveling with Nkechi, Athyra, Pezock, and two porters (the other two having died). I've also used this opportunity to develop some of the backstory stuff the PCs gave me. For example, the party fighter fled Korvosa after murdering a pair of brothers (who raped his sister), and is now being pursued by a Hellknight bent on bringing him in for justice. He finally caught up to the party in Kalabuto, which made an interesting encounter against the "rival party agents" who had no idea why a Hellknight showed up in the middle of their fight.
I might have mentioned that my group hated Gelick, so even though they work for the Pathfinders, they scared Gelick off and away from the expedition. He's actually helping that Hellknight track the party down, as he's got a specific bone to pick against the party's fighter.
Last session we had our encounter with the shadow demon, and I'd like to make a suggestion for other groups. One, that Fear affect... that'll kill you. That'll remove PCs for the entire fight if they've not got a way to counter it, so that might be an opportunity to allow some of the NPCs to come in handy, like have Nkechi prepare Remove Fear or something so that the affected PCs can get back into it within a few rounds. Also, I've not seen a consensus yet on how to do both DR and incorporeal. If you apply DR first, and then half the remaining damage, your party has a real shot at dealing damage to the thing. If you half the damage first and then apply DR, they're all going to die. So keep that in mind.
One last note on the random encounters. You'll probably have a lot of those, and they can drag the game on-and-on-and-on. I've given my party ample opportunity to avoid 75% of them if they so choose, either by making survival checks to avoid areas where creatures lair, or perception checks to spot the creatures ahead of time so they can go around, or by allowing them to bribe creatures with rations to end an encounter early. My party has already reached halfway to level 7, so they're not going to need the exp for random encounters. Just keep in mind that they are supposed to be trailblazing, so any encounters they avoid they'll have to make note of and inform the expedition about so they too can avoid that encounter.
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I have found the encounters to be pretty easy, and I've also found that my players are behind where they should be in terms of leveling (they are about to encounter the succubus and are not quite at level 6).
At first I thought this was because we have a large party (6 players) with two of them being highly optimized--I have a maxi-minned inquisitor thrashing the monsters with a greatsword and a magus using electric slap for 6d6 dmg.
I've tried increasing the number of monsters, ,which didn't up the difficulty much, and I've tried adding the advanced template, which, with the AC boost, has only frustrated the players. I may have to do a bit of both to find the right balance.
I only started playing/GM'ing Pathfinder a few months ago, and picked up SS to help me run an adventure. I wish I had read these threads first, because, as other commenters have noted, this AP leaves a lot of work for the GM to do. That said, my players have generally been having a great time. The sandbox style of play is great if the GM can step into the role.
Smuggler's Shiv was a blast, but RtR has started feeling like a sequence of meaningless encounters on the way to something important. The blame for that falls on me, and I'm thinking of ways to juice the storyline a bit. (I'm planning to have one of the party members become a double agent for another faction.) I think this will work for our party given the situation they've found themselves in: one of players was killed and they have no way to raise her. The cleric is planning to ride back to meet the expedition (Sargavan Government) to see if it is carrying a scroll of Raise Dead, and if it has diamond dust to erase the negative levels. I am going to have the Aspis Consortium intercept her and offer to help raise the dead rogue in exchange for her help. By the time the party finds out about it, the government will be an adversary and they will find themselves the reluctant allies of the Consortium.
That could be a very interesting twist!
Word of advice: City of Seven Spears (Part 3) basically has no story whatsoever. There are hints of neat one there, but it doesn't really add up to much. I highly recommend starting Vaults of Madness (Part 4) after only a short time in the midst of CoSS. You can check that link for more ideas on it.
Running a larger party with two semi-optimizers is definitely going to hamper the difficulty. On recommendation I have is to give all of the foes maximum hp. If you apply the Advanced creature template but instead of the AC boost give them max hp, that usually helps make the fights longer, without the 'swinginess' of the AC increase. Also, you noted that you've tried increasing the number of creatures... well, that's pretty much the most solid idea for handling powerful parties. You might want to fiddle around with that a bit.
One idea, if combat starts to drag, is you might want to have any characters that 'buff' other party members write out (as in on a separate sheet(s) of paper or on small flash cards) what their the buffs they have do (including results of those, such as noting when strength increases that attack/damage increases). Then, when they place the buff on someone, simply hand the player who's character received the buff the card. This will generally allow them to just add the 'bonus' at the end of any appropriate rolls and generally make things much smoother during play.
Similarly, if any of them can summon, have them write up the summon's stats (or, even easier, copy/paste the summoned creature's stats from d20pfsrd or the PRD - keep in mind, you'll likely want to format it afterwords for easier use for yourself*).
Another thing I do when I'm running encounters with large groups of monsters, larger groups of players, or both, is to make a large number of d20 rolls ahead of time, a number of d6 and d8 rolls ahead of time, and a few d4 and d10 rolls ahead of time (the dice I most often need for monsters in combat). In combat, I just tick off my list of pre-rolls that I've made whenever it's a creature's turn. Makes things much smoother and faster on my end. If I have lots of time before hand, but know that I'm not going to have much during the session, I can even make rolls for specific creatures, or even make a number of specific rolls (such as initiative, attack, damage, etc) for specific creatures before hand and summing up the bonuses on my little paper. ()
One final thing I did, although it made for more of a '15 minute work day', is to roll up the multiple encounters that would normally be spread out throughout the day (or, alternatively, just roll up multiple encounters without 'stealing' from later in the day, usually no more than 1d4 at a time) and have them happen at the same time. Sometimes the various creatures were allies of each other (making a more dangerous encounter), sometimes they were enemies of each other (making a potentially easier, but more dynamic encounter), sometimes they were neutral opportunistic scavengers (making an interesting dynamic encounter), and sometimes it just happened (making a confusing chaotic encounter). In any of those cases, it made the fight feel more dynamic and, if the PCs side with one group over the other, it might pave the way for potential diplomatic talks with those creatures later. It's not something to do for every encounter, but it's something to do occasionally to prevent the random encounters from getting stale. EDIT: the "adding more encounters" thing also helps increase the over-all CR and generates more experience for your larger group, thus helping increase with the expected curve.
Anyway, I hope you enjoy!
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To fit it all on one page (it often won't, especially with lots of spell-likes or complicated special abilities), highlight everything you've copied onto the page (you may or may not choose to alter the name, here) and set it to size 10 font; then right-click on the highlighted text, choose the "Paragraph" option (it's going to be right below the 'Font' option, and in the bottom of the three sections, set Spacing (both the before and after lines) to "1 pt" (you type this one in) and the Line Spacing as "Single" (you select this one from a list). I usually put a check mark in the box that says "Don't add space between paragraphs of the same style", but you might want to leave that unchecked. Mostly it's a preference. This won't always get everything on one page (again, especially if the creature has lots of spell-likes and complicated special abilities), but it'll usually do so, and if it doesn't, it'll most certainly get it onto two pages (allowing you to flip front and back, if you wish to print it that way).
Anyway, I know it seems complicated to read, but really you're just changing the size (easy enough) and right-clicking and selecting Paragraph from the list. Everything else should be more straightforward when you see the boxes that pop up.
Incidentally, I've also found this to be a great tool for GMs as well, in general. You probably want to print them out fast and grayscale to save on ink.
It's worth noting, though, that the fact that you've got one dead PC seems that the challenge is not too bad.
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Here is a sheet I created to try and track random encounters, the PCs position during race and the relative position of all other factions. You'll also find on another tab the random generator used for the encounters. You have to paste "values only" when you generate a set of encounters.
Link -> Racing to Ruin Tracking Summary
MAPLEWOOD!!! You are amazing! This is going to help me tremendously. My PC's are leaving Eldar in this week's session. I planned out maps & multiple ways each random encounter can happen, but not when it happens.
MAPLEWOOD!!! You are amazing! This is going to help me tremendously. My PC's are leaving Eldar in this week's session. I planned out maps & multiple ways each random encounter can happen, but not when it happens.
Glad you can use it. I thought this kind of sheet was really useful on the Shiv. Now with all these factions and random encounters, it seemed natural to create one for book 2. My group meets very infrequently, the PCs have only just arrived in Eleder so I actually haven't used this sheet yet.
I'm thinking of adding a row with random Weather results (temperature, amount of rain). I have to find an appropriate table with weather results.
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Maplewood, your work is amazing - those trackers are very helpful.
Glad you can use it. I thought this kind of sheet was really useful on the Shiv. Now with all these factions and random encounters, it seemed natural to create one for book 2. My group meets very infrequently, the PCs have only just arrived in Eleder so I actually haven't used this sheet yet.
I'm thinking of adding a row with random Weather results (temperature, amount of rain). I have to find an appropriate table with weather results.
While not perfect it does give you a starting point, take a look at the Donjon Weather Generator?
Generally, local weather patterns in the jungles of the tropics (at least those away from the coast) tend to be fairly regular. In the morning the sun rises heating the cool wet air and ground - Between 2 and 3 in the afternoon when the sun is at its hottest much of the moisture will have evaporated and gone up in to the air - sometimes forming clouds sometimes not but after the worst of the heat the water condenses leading to a sudden rainfall lasting for a few minutes to half an hour. Once done the humidity rises again as the resident heat warms the cooled water and the humidity rises. The jungle canopy holds the heat for much of the evening but the nights are a lot cooler and very moist as all that humidity condenses, soaking everything under the canopy of trees. Morning comes and the cycle begins anew.
Few if any large storms occur from conditions on land, however once a tropical storm makes land fall they are big brawling things with lots of rain, thunder and lightning. In the Mwangi jungles near the Eye of Abendigo I would presume quite a few thunderstorms peel off and head inland. I imagine these would be violent but relatively short lived fronts.
Weather in the Sargava savanna regions would likely mirror those found in Africa. Summer is the rainy season with storms rolling through with regularity, the plant life is lush, the streams and rivers flow freely or even flood. Winter is the dry season with almost no rainfall. The plants are shriveled and dry, herd migrations occur as they search for food.
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I finally added temperature and rain to the Tracking Sheet. I used various sources to create the weather generator.
- In "Racing to Ruin" p.37: it states that the Screaming Jungle "rarely reaches 90F".
- In "Sargava the Lost Colony" p.30: the M'neri plains "ranges from 90° to 110° in summer".
- In "Heart of the Jungle" p.12: "common for the temperature to be very hot (90° F)".
For the day-to-day temperature variations, I used a table in a pdf that was posted on the forums by Herbo. As with the random encounters, you need to paste "values only" into the main sheet. This sheet has conditional formatting that highlights temperatures that reach 90F and also 110F.
As for the rain, I used again "Racing to Ruin" p.37 for the Screaming Jungle and then made guesses for the rest. I remember reading somewhere that temperatures are hottest near the Bandu hills almost desert-like. So I figure that there could be very little rain in the plains perhaps a daily 10min. I am not sure if this is plausible.
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Question for those that have already run the encounters in Eleder (or anyone who has an idea):
How does a GM (without cheesing the rules) prevent your PCs from using some sort of charm or controlling magic on Umagro to just let him safely release his hostage on the roof? I have 2 players with high DIP scores who are also capable of casting charm person (if the positioning is right, Umagro is just in range). I can see the players trying to charm him, one after the other, and getting him to release the hostage. Alternatively, I have another PC who can cast Hold person/Command. I can see him trying to paralyze Umargo or using Command to make him fall prone, both of which would allow the hostage to escape (though for the latter I'd make the hostage do an acrobatics check to not fall prone herself, and begin rolling off the roof).
Thoughts?
More detail:
I do think that, roleplay-wise, if any of those attempts fail, then Umagro would immediately do his throat-slit, then kickoff the roof approach with the hostage, and I plan on having someone in the crowd below make it clear to the PCs that any virtualy any action towards Umagro will trigger his paranoria. Unfortunately, while my party is "good" some of them have shown less than appropriate concern for NPC well being or ettiqutte (two pcs have already tried to cast spells on the Faction leaders during negotiations, forcing me to have Amivor kick them out of the meeting room), and I can seem them taking the risk regardless of the consequence.
I'm sorry, but... I'm not entirely sure what, exactly, your question or problem is. I'll yap at you a little, but it might not be as helpful as you like, but I'll try!
First: "good" doesn't equate to "not casting [mind-affecting] spells on potential allies", though they certainly might have gone overboard (I can't say because I wasn't there). If they have reason (any reason) to not trust the ultimate outcome of something, and they're spellcasters, it makes sense that they'd want to manipulate it in their favor. If they know that their allies are good... that still doesn't mean they shouldn't mind-alter, depending on how closely their ethical outlooks mesh. And ultimately, [mind affecting] is only as "invasive" as the world/GM thinks it is, which has a huge variation from GM to GM... and the player might not share that view of how invasive it is. Add that to the fact that in Souls for Smuggler's Shiv there were a number of NPCs that used a simple charm person to amass great personal power and utility (and the PCs may or may not have a way to know their alignment... which might not matter for their tactics anyway), and I can totally see people presuming that it's a valid tactic.
Second: if you want them to know that spellcasting can get them in trouble, talk to them out of character and explain what your "vision" of spellcasting is (whether it has the glowing runes the artwork does, or not, whether its possible to subtly cast spells or not, and so on)... and equally importantly, let them share their vision. Then you compromise (probably favoring yourself as you're the GM, but possibly not). This will help give them and you both a solid "vision" for magic in general in the campaign... but be warned that, whatever is ultimately chosen, it needs to be "stuck to" by both parties, and PCs will use this to their advantage. This is super-important and probably should have been done before the campaign, but it is what it is.
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Third: as far as them casting spells... it makes sense, especially if they're a spellcaster, that they'd want to attempt to use their predominant class feature in order to handle the problem. From your brief description, although I could easily be wrong, I'm guessing you've got a bard-or-sorcerer (or two), a witch-or-wizard (probably an enchanter specialist, if a wizard), and a cleric. Being predominantly-magic-classes, means they'll look to swift, easy outs that magic brings. One thing to keep in mind about this, is that there's nothing wrong with this approach. Especially if you have a caster who's focused on mind-affecting/social stuff... they'll have a pretty terrible time over-all with the rest of Racing to Ruin (a bunch of savage animals, outsiders, and an immune-to-mind-affecting leader), City of Seven Spears (there are few instances where they can shine), Vaults of Madness (though their mind-affecting magic might be handy to counter the paranoia of their allies), The Thousand Fangs Below (a whole city mostly-immune-or-resistant to [mind-affecting]), and Sanctum of the Serpent God (take The Thousand Fangs Below and dial it up to "11"). So... personally, I'd give 'em the "easy out" while they've got the chance. Enchantment magic can be pretty awesome at low levels, but it drops off in power as time goes by, and in this AP it's not really that useful after City of Seven Spears (and even there it's utility is questionable).
Still, from my reading/memory (it's been a while), Umagro is going to slit the NPC's throat if the PCs get too close no matter what, so spellcasting isn't really going to be a thing here - if he's going to do it if they attack physically or if they cast spells, I don't see what the difference is.
If your point is that you want them to use their high diplomacy instead of spellcasting... just straight-up tell them (perhaps requiring an Appraise/INT check or Sense Motive/WIS check to get a feel for the situation, if you prefer) that their characters think that their best bet is to probably use their high diplomacy instead of spellcasting (especially as they know how "iffy" their magic can be and this is clearly a dangerous hostage situation).
If you want straight up combat, well... that's kind of the problem of having spellcasters. They tend to want to avoid that kind of thing. :)
If you want a more tense/difficult situation or want to make the stand off last longer... throw in some complicating factors.
- Make the crowd near Umbergo boisterous, perhaps due to some agreeing with him getting into a not-quite-fight with those that disagree (makes spell-casting difficult due to being roughed up), and let your casters know this before hand;
- or make some other environmental effects come into play (whether weather, terrain, people, or something else);
- alternatively, have Umergo loudly and proudly boasting of his "mind-blank amulet" (really a one-use magic item) as the PCs approach, that he "had to get to prevent 'the oppressors' from using their vile mind-altering tricks to quiet his truth" or some such (which, if you tie him to Yarzoth, as I did, though he didn't know it, would make sense as she likely knows their abilities by now). This will let them know right-out that they can't do anything, prevent them from wasting resources, and guide them more toward what you'd want.
Those are just a few ideas, and ways that you might want to incorporate to minimize the "one and done" spell-use thing that you seem to want to avoid.
If you want more specific advice, a class/race/ability load-out would be helpful to tailor it more specifically to you. :)
Glad I could help!
I understand the desire to have something of a challenge here, and that's fine. Personally, after having a Bard run through the books up to five, I would have made some things easier up front, considering her abilities are practically worthless in the later books, but to each there own!
And I know that tone is difficult thing online and some things I say can sound harsh or angry, so... please don't take it that way! I usually try and say things jovially, but I've seen my words upset people, so, you know, I just want to let you know: I may disagree sometimes, but I'm not actually upset or anything. :)
And if you can post things online (I know I can't, 'cause... um... I'm lame), I'd love to see your map!
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Vashir, That is a great looking map! I am encouraged to get combat paper and work with it from now on. We are not yet too this module but I think it would be good to get a head start on getting things like this set up.
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My players have taken the temple of blood on the Shiv and the wizard / scholar is going happily mad with all the carvings and translations. He is working non-stop with Jask to translate and work through the entire story of the Azlanti cultists of Zura. They have pieced together enough to know that they may be able to find a way to Saventh-Yhi. Discussions of an expedition have heated up already.
During their time on the Shiv - many conversations of politics with each other and the NPC Castaways all of my player characters have expressed dislike of almost all the factions. In fact I started to realize that our resident wizard / scholar does not like the Pathfinders or any of the others at all looking at them as little more than exploitative looters. The Paladin of Iomedae has issues with Pathfinders stealing certain of Iomedae’s religious artifacts. No one liked Gelik (let’s face it, he would have been the first one ‘voted off the island’ but he died in a fight against the cannibals.) and that has reflected poorly on the rest of the Pathfinders.
Granted the have not made it off the Shiv yet, but during interactions with the Castaway they have expressed extreme dislike for the colonial government, the pathfinders, the Mantis and even hatred of the Aspis Consortium. They have expressed distrust of looters like the pirates and feel that any agreement with a pirate would be treated more like “guidelines” to the party’s detriment.
However, we have a half-Zenj ranger PC who thinks members of her tribe, the freemen, and others that want free of the colonial yoke may be a viable source of back up on their own expedition. To that end I am coming up with another faction and am looking for some feedback. For those who are interested in a sixth faction less intrusive expedition backer here is what I have so far:
Faction leader: Yallathoon (fh fighter 7 / duelist 2 (tribal champion); CR8; NPC Codex, page 216) lead the native expedition. The Mwangi Freepeoples are a mixed group of Zenj tribal members, Garundi, jungle elves, jungle gnomes, and odd misfits. All they want is the city of Saventh-Yhi to remain free from exploitative outsiders. Further Yallathoon hopes it is possible to set up their own capital where they have control of the deep Mwangi Expanse. They plan on using its natural defenses to keep the Sargavan government, the Aspis Consortium, and other scavengers at bay.
Rival Factions: The Sargavan Government & Aspis Consortium. They are at complete odds with those who have come and taken land and lives. They seek to limit the hold of the exploiters of the Expanse.
Ally: In my campaign they will approach the PCs via the ranger's Zenj grand-parents who arange for them to speak to the leader of the combined Mwangi Freepeoples’ expedition, the tribal champion, Yallathoon.
The Offer: Like the other factions she will offer to outfit and organize an expedition to Saventh-Yhi - supplying food, water, supplies, porters, mounts, hunters to gather food and barbarian warriors to act as guards. They do not offer any gold or bonuses - but instead offer to support the party’s exploration and publication of the discovery and exploration of Saventh-Yhi. (The party can negotiate compensation in the form of goods up to 1000 gp worth of gear each).
Special: During the journey they provide a +4 Diplomacy bonus when dealing with native tribes. Once a base camp is established the Freepeople's knowledge of local medicine reduces the chances of disease considerably. Native knowledge of the jungle environment allows for a higher defense with natural snares and traps, their knowledge of the ways of the Mwangi Expanse allows them to keep closer tabs on all the other factions.
Notes: Yallathoon mentions that Diamata Sirathini (fh Ranger 5; CR4; NPC Guide, page 27) would be an excellent scout and guide for the expedition. Upon talking with Diamata we find she will not help until they get the blessing of Nkechi the Tempest... and so I tie them back into the AP with a group of freedom fighters with less mercenary/acquisition based motivations.
That's... actually really cool. I'll hopefully comment more later, but that's a great idea!
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I'm running this adventure, but have taken some liberties. Firstly, I started my PC's off as slaves from various backgrounds. They were put on the boat that wrecked on the Shiv as newly freed slaves escaping to a better life. I ran through the first book with a minor changes. Gelik said some stuff about slaves that the PC's didn't like and was chased off only to be killed by the cannibals.
My PC's escaped the Shiv and arrived in Eleder. They had a meeting with each faction, and the PC's asked the same question: What was their stance on slavery? Well I stayed on par with each factions, and my PC's didn't like the answers they were given. So I created Spartacus Freemen- Leader of the Freemen Revolt. They have since aligned with him and killed their former slaver boss who was taking bribes from the other factions.
I'm also going my own way to Tazion. I wasn't digging the path that the book wants me to take, so I am home brewing the trip there. I'm still following the outline of the Serpents Skull, but I have 4 people in my group that are veteran gamers, so I have to come up with something to spice the games up. I have a Blade Bound Magus with a sentient sword that has the soul of a capture vampire, and that fits in with the Serpent folk and stuff. Fun stuff.
Since I have added that faction as well, I think it adds another layer to the game.
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My group managed to make it into and out of Kalabuto today. They're quite a big party (6 PCs) but not too heavy on the martial front, their Monk being the closest they have to a front line fighter. The ambush by the rival faction agents (in this case Aspis Consortium, as the party are working for the Pathfinders) nearly resulted in the entire party being captured. I had all but one (the dwarven cleric/mage) of them paralysed who had to battle his way out of the inn whilst desperately trying to stop the rest of the party being taken away by the bad guys.
All in all it was a great little encounter and one the party seemed to really enjoy. Whilst none of them were that badly injured they had that feeling of serious jeopardy that it could all go wrong any second. If what people are saying about the 2nd half of this scenario is correct then I'm really looking forward to it...
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Wrapping up "Souls" and getting ready for "Racing." I just re-read "Sargava: The Lost Colony." Was there a reason that the Ivory Cross, Gold Crown Shipping and Mining Company, and the Rivermen's Guild did not make it into "Serpent's Skull"?
Wrapping up "Souls" and getting ready for "Racing." I just re-read "Sargava: The Lost Colony." Was there a reason that the Ivory Cross, Gold Crown Shipping and Mining Company, and the Rivermen's Guild did not make it into "Serpent's Skull"?
None that I can figure.
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Wrapping up "Souls" and getting ready for "Racing." I just re-read "Sargava: The Lost Colony." Was there a reason that the Ivory Cross, Gold Crown Shipping and Mining Company, and the Rivermen's Guild did not make it into "Serpent's Skull"?None that I can figure.
Except maybe space in the book.
Those organizations are all big on the coast in Sargava, but if you look at RtR as a whole, you quickly leave Sargava and head out into the wilds of the M'Neri (sp?) Plains and the Mwangi Expanse. Probably didn't want to spend a whole lot of time bogged down in Sargava when the whole adventure had a loooong distance to cover.Other than that... what Tacticslion said. Really no specific reason you couldn't include them.
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Wrapping up "Souls" and getting ready for "Racing." I just re-read "Sargava: The Lost Colony." Was there a reason that the Ivory Cross, Gold Crown Shipping and Mining Company, and the Rivermen's Guild did not make it into "Serpent's Skull"?
They make non-mentioned cameos. ;)
...at least that is the way I played it.
I have seen others use the Ivory Cross as a neutral party that sets up a general store / pub in the original camp area in Saventh-Yhi, to provide a common ground for all the factions to come and negotiate in peace.
I say use them where you can. They are part of the flavor of the area and should be used to get the full effect of Sargava and the Expanse.
The only problem I'd have with using another faction as a neutral general store is that the factions are all vying to be the first to discover Saventh-Yhi. While nobody would fail to see the caravans leaving, I'm sure none of the main factions would advertise that they had found, or had a solid lead on finding the lost city. The only reason those factions do know is because they had ties to the PCs already.
Maybe a month or so into the exploration of the city, they might see the benefit of sending in a general store. Without knowing how long the factions intend on staying, or if they found the lost city, there would be no reason for them to incur the expense of sending out enough goods to stock a general store. Not until the factions start sending back for goods, etc does it make profitable sense, and that's what those outfits are in it for, the profit.
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The Government knows. That means everyone who is anyone knows. If a faction in Sargava dosn't have a horse, they will reinforce the government. Once they get to Kalabuto, or if a faction gets forced out early, the Mzali will likely learn of what the "SG" is up to, and they would send an army to cut them off.
To the point of the general store, when you roll the resupply check it takes 30-check days minimun a week. I imagine the first time someone sends a supply train back the news breaks in Eleder/Kalabuto and from there anyone not in the game, comes running.
Imagine Gex, Neb, Alkenstar, Osirion, Etc all finding out that a lost azlanti city has been found in the expanse, and the only thing holding it is rabble from Sargava.
Within 6 months, Savanth-Yhi should be a war zone.
Then comes Cheliax...but that is probably in Skull and Shackels.
Now I'm curious - where are the faction bases of operation or headquarters in Eleder? Some are stated outright (the Shackles Pirate ship in the harbor) other can be inferred (the Baronial complex or Praetor's Block for the Sargavan Government) but fo others I'm not so sure. I think the Red Mantis would never even take the player's to theirs, but rather communicate through a representative (Sasha). That leaves the Pathfinders (I'm thinking Northcoast, since that's where the Sargava Club is?) and for Apsis either Portside or Lower Harbor (my understanding is they have less of a foothold in Eleder and thus probably wouldn't be in New Haliad). I'm trying to flesh out Eleder because 2 of the PCs are from there.
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For my group, I didn't actually place the headquarters of each factions. They chose the Pathfinders and I placed the Lodge in Portside, I felt that Aspis and Mantis would be more secretive about their preparations (and the location of their operations).
Instead, I focused on how they met each factions. I had my PCs meet each faction in various settings.
- First, the Mantis forced a meeting with them, Sasha invited them into a horse drawn caravan with Chivane.
- Then they met with the Aspis at a luxury Inn in New Halliad. To me the Aspis are trying to make an impression in Eleder.
- The meeting with the Pirates was more chaotic. While walking in the Harbour, a brawl broke out. The Pirate captain and Aerys try to recruit the PCs during a fist fight with other Pirates near some random tavern.
- They had dinner with the Pathfinders at their Lodge with Gelik being extra annoying.
- Finally, early one morning a group of Sargava guards appears at Sargava Club where they are staying and escorts them to the General. I placed the General headquarters near Praetor's Block.
Thanks Maplewood - that was really cool GMing and I plan on borrowing much of it.
I am taking the approach to RtR of trying to add more sandbox elements, because my players have truly enjoyed SfSS like no other. I really don't think this is much of a problem and should not take much work. For me, this means fleshing out Eleder so that it can be traversed(we have two PCs who are from there - a Zenj member of the colonial militia and a Halfling Alchemist whose parents work at the colonial archives) in a more free-form manner. I anticipate the faction negotiations being an extensive set-piece as well any repercussions resulting from how our Halfling Cavalier from Andoran (whose stated reason for coming to Eleder is to foment a slave revolt) chooses to behave.
I am wondering if there is any place where the square mileage of Eleder can be found?
I think what really seems to have bothered the "anti-RtR" posters is the Route to Tazion. The solution most people have come up with is to give the players a map of the region once they decide their next move is to travel from Eleder to Tazion and allow them to choose their route. This would ideally have to be at the end of a session (or between sessions), to allow the GM to prep all the material needed. My plan is make sure the players are bought into the "race" element so they choose a swift route and are not tempted to make extensive side stops (such as looking for the Stasis Fields or Barkskin Lake) which inevitably cause their faction to show up late or last. Then I plan to incorporate the random encounter tables from Heart of the Jungle and use the encounters from "the Race Begins" only as appropriate and in which ever order makes most sense. This also mean I will need to flesh out Freehold, Fort Bandu, and/or Stark Point depending on which route they ultimately choose.
I know some of you have already GM'd this using the player-chosen route method. I am wondering what pitfalls you encountered and what advice you might offer?
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@Maplewood I am going to steal that idea, I think that will be fun for my players.
The two things I am doing for this part of the adventure is.
1.) adding a Mwangi Faction, an expedition from the city state of Nanatmbu. They are rivals to the Sargavan government. While I am using savage worlds as a system, their advantage for allying with them is some shamanistic magic stuff.
2.) each faction's group has a total 4 NPCs, so that way it is not just the named npc and a bunch of guards. Instead it will be several NPCs that they can like or hate depending on their choices.
What I am wondering is how to better intergrate the Nanatmbu faction into the plot. I want them to meet up with them, but not quite sure where it would be best for that part to happen. Any suggestions?
How are people finding the pacing of this one? In terms of game sessions/hours I'm thinking my group will race through this. In the first session we did lengthy negotiations to set up a coalition of two factions, picked up the Tempest and knocked over his challenges, the riots, a couple of random encounters and finished up with the cockfight (brought it ahead of the Salt Mines).
Hey BQ - I've been re-reading this thread ahead of our first RtR session tomorrow. I managed to end SfSS at the end of our last session, with a description of them pulling into Eleder Harbor.
I am really trying to work on a nice narrative arc for session one of Part 2. To me this means they end the session after the encounter with Umargo or after picking up Nkechi. We play about every two weeks. Since I plan to let the PCs plan their own journey to Tazion, it would be ideal to end a session right before they leave Eleder. I really plan on modding the journey to Tazion based on the route they choose. For instance, they may never go near the Lake of Vanished Armies or the Screaming Jungle. They may also stop in Freehold, Stark Point, or Fort Bandu instead of Kalabuto.
How many hours was your first session?
What other changes to did you make to the route to Tazion?
Has your group talked to Nkechi to get his advice? The route spelled out in the game is Nkechi's suggestion in order to avoid the more troublesome areas of the expanse. My group wanted to plan their own route, but went with Nkechi's route mostly. They took time to cut across the land to the river, and then rafted down to Kalabuto, and from there followed Nkechi's advice.
So this is the route they have chosen:
North overland between the coast and the Bandu Hills on mounts.
East overland just north of the Bandu Hills to the headwaters of the Dzimmi River on mounts.
Down the Dzimmi River until it coverages with the Little Vanji on swan boats (feather tokens).
Cross the Little Vanji (avoiding Darkreach) and head straight east overland to Tazion on mounts.
What do you all think of this route?
I'm not sure how to post a photo, but I put a hex grid on the map of the area and I'm giving my party free reign on how to get there. With a hex equal to 24 miles for a days travel in the plains as a guide. The set encounters will get sprinkled in there one way or the other. The time line does goes faster so I'm throwing in being captured by pygmies, cannibals, slavers, or wasting diseases to slow them down. I thought the mines would work good in the middle of the bantu mountains and call it a 'short cut'. Also I'm having them fear attrition with the bearers. Nothing worse than getting to the golden city with no one to carry back the tons of gold inside of it. They didn't defeat Yarzoth so I'm replacing Issilar with her. my only difficulty with that is leveling her up. where did all these extra feats, skills, and hit points come from. oh well, I'm cutting and pasting from one to the other as best as possible unless someone else already did it. Also on Issilar, if low on hit points he's supposed to flee, (with 3 of the crystals) that done, they never get the map room to work???
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Also on Issilar, if low on hit points he's supposed to flee, (with 3 of the crystals) that done, they never get the map room to work???
The pillars can still be activated without the crystals with a UMD check but I think the DC is fairly high (35 or 40?). The PCs might be stuck there until more help arrives from their main expedition or another group of scouts/trailblazers from another faction get there. Maybe they can cut a deal with the other faction and all work together?
Or maybe you could give the PCs a bonus for each day they're working on studying the pillars or something. A +2 per day would still mean they'd lose about a week of time and possibly their lead on the other factions (as well as having to deal with encounters while they wait) but it still allows them a chance to succeed at the high DC check eventually.
Or maybe you say that since it's a series of devices (and not really a single device), Aid Another would be allowed (not normally allowed on UMD checks). That might also prompt them to work with other scouts or expeditions that should be arriving at Tazion after them.
Just some thoughts!
I put some of Issilar's gear in one of the upper rooms along with the gems and some of his notes. These were scattered on a table he made.
In my game, he wasn't carrying the gems with him during his encounter with the PCs.
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I'm just getting to the succubus encounter and I'm worried for my player characters. I'm also trying to figure out how a succubus in only a CR 7 creature with all its defenses and powerful abilities. If played to the fullness of her potential, I think Zakiyya could have a fairly easy TPK.
Unless the cleric happens to take Align Weapon for the day, all of their physical attacks are going to have to subtract DR 10 from their damage. I have an alchemist who can throw 3D6+3 bombs, but he'll be subtracting 10 for her Resist Fire. The cleric has some electrical potential - useless. While they're getting in 3pts here and there, she can Vampiric Touch them each round to inflict 6d6 and restore herself.
Meanwhile, she could well Charm, Suggestion, or Dominate certainly some of them, probably most, and potentially all of them with magic only resisted by very high willpower saves. Oh, and for good measure she has three fourth level spellcasters to throw in their support and the possibility of a baubau demon.
And, for good measure, with a genius intelligence, strong wisdom, and god level charisma backing huge skills including Perception 21 and Bluff 27, I feel some inclination to roleplay her trap as convincing, clever, and deadly.
I'm confident I'll make it work. I'll be relying on a certain amount of classic villain overconfidence and a desire to toy with her food. I've built a whole chart of clues the players might find in a way that will hopefully make it a fun, unfolding mystery.
In the end, I'm glad for the encounter. The LOOK of the succubus alone is worth the cost of admittance, and I think it will end up a memorable challenge. But I really think the module underestimates what a succubus unleashed could do to a lot of level 5 character groups.
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Can someone please direct/link me to the variant Tazion that someone made? I can remember seeing it when a while ago, but now my group is actually doing the adventure and will reach Tazion next session.
All DR hinges now on whether your archer has clustered shot or not. If he does easier win.
I really can't remember how that encounter went. Don't recall anyone dying.
We are just getting ready to start module 2 (RtR) tonight after almost 2 months "off" because of crazy holiday schedules and what not. Reading some of these posts are really helping me decide which way to handle things from the get go. I really messed up in the first module in not reading it in it's entirety before getting started. I don't want to repeat my mistakes. I am a new GM (Smuggler's Shiv was my first real crack at this) and I'm pleased my party wants to continue. I learned a lot in the first module.
If anyone has suggestions for GM's just getting ready to start RtR, I would greatly appreciate them.
I talk about about some of my changes in previous posts, but I'll summarize them here:
1. I allowed my players to choose their own route to Tazion. I gave them a map of the Mwangi Expanse with Tazion marked on it and let them use Knowledge checks to gather info about the region and they drew their own route. I had to drop some encounters, rearrange others, and add new ones. It was more work but ultimately it increased player ownership of the Race and was well worth it.
2. I removed Issilar and replaced him with a High Girallon. Tazion became just a lost Azlanti city inhabited by Anghazani who didn't know what they had found. I'm not sure this made a difference and I think it wasn't necessary and removed the only Serpentfolk element from a book in an AP called Serpent's Skull.
3. I used the modified ziggurat from this thread.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ms15?Dwtempests-Ziggurat#1
It made for a much more epic ending and I highly recommend using it.
Someone give me a reason why the party should have a caravan which is trailing behind them.
1. I've read up until half way through the 5th book, and so far I do not see how an extra 10 or 20 people and supplies would be of any use, especially since they won't show up at Tazion until days after the adventure party gets there.
2. The party never goes through a section were a mule load of supplies supplemented by hunting and create food and water spells can't get them though the problem.
3. Realistically, if a caravan of 1st and 2nd level NPCs is several days behind them, one of the other search parties is going to catch up to them and use their intestines to string tennis rackets. It seems like a bad idea to put the baggage train between yourself and the bad guys.
4. How do you keep the caravan behind you informed of where you are going without giving the same info to the opposing teams?
It seems to me that the only point of the caravan is it gets the party to wait around in Eleder for a week while the supplies are gathered and to give them a reason to care about the warehouse fire.
Another question, how much assistance is your faction giving the party? Money? Supplies? Magic items?
A general comment about the whole Adventure Path, I don't think I've every seen a champaign where there was less treasure and magic items per level. Add to that, once past Kalabuto, there is no logical place to add a market where you can buy magic items.
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Someone give me a reason why the party should have a caravan which is trailing behind them.
1. I've read up until half way through the 5th book, and so far I do not see how an extra 10 or 20 people and supplies would be of any use, especially since they won't show up at Tazion until days after the adventure party gets there.
2. The party never goes through a section were a mule load of supplies supplemented by hunting and create food and water spells can't get them though the problem.
3. Realistically, if a caravan of 1st and 2nd level NPCs is several days behind them, one of the other search parties is going to catch up to them and use their intestines to string tennis rackets. It seems like a bad idea to put the baggage train between yourself and the bad guys.
4. How do you keep the caravan behind you informed of where you are going without giving the same info to the opposing teams?It seems to me that the only point of the caravan is it gets the party to wait around in Eleder for a week while the supplies are gathered and to give them a reason to care about the warehouse fire.
Another question, how much assistance is your faction giving the party? Money? Supplies? Magic items?
A general comment about the whole Adventure Path, I don't think I've every seen a champaign where there was less treasure and magic items per level. Add to that, once past Kalabuto, there is no logical place to add a market where you can buy magic items.
To answer some of your questions, here is what I have used factions for:
1. My PC's faction is about 100-120 people. I knew my players wouldn't want a faction. I explained to them that it would serve as a settlement for them once in Saventh-Yhi. A place where they could quickly sell their loot and buy minor magic items. I have been using Faction Points also and they are cashing these a lot. It is a place to meet friendly NPCs and also engineer betrayal. Finally Saventh-Yhi is much more interesting with the rival factions. It creates useful roll play opportunities.2. You are right but that's not what your faction is useful for
3. Indeed but that is your PC's job, to protect the faction, the front, the back. Or whatever you throw at them.
4. I let my player's figure it out. There are a plethora of magic items or there are mundane means like horses with messengers. My guys used a Bookplate of Recall.
To your last question, The treasure appears to follow the regular advancement. The Mwangi Jungle is very much isolated and so that is the point of your Camp, it is a settlement where they can sell everything. The isolation continues in the same theme as the adventure of the Shiv where they have to mostly fend for themselves except for their Camp.
One of the changes I made was the final encounter prior to arriving in Kalabuto. Made it a haunt.