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Welcome to the boards, Yucale! And I hope that folks drop in to chat! :-)
And for the record, I agree 100% with your observation about how a lot of gamers are pretty dense and unwelcoming to new gamers. I'm not sure why that attitude exists, but it does, and it frustrates me as well.
I'm 30 and feel the same frustrations of the OP, gamers are not just unwelcoming to new gamers, but new games. Change isn't bad, change can be good, and change doesn't make the game cops come to your house and throw out all your old games, books, movies, etc.
The thing is, the forum attitudes have nothing to do with gamers, it really comes down to the John Gabriel Greater Internet ***NSFW*** Theory or the more friendly t-shirt version.
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I hope that you've read A Wrinkle in Time? Way better than Narnia and about the same age group. Maybe a little below you, you seem pretty sharp.
Thank goodness! I was amazed to get to page 4-5 of a thread about fantasy/sci-fi books for kids and noting seeing L'Engle listed! A Wrinkle in Time, A Wind in the Door, A Swiftly Tilting Planet and Many Waters were all enjoyable for me when I was young.
For lighter fair, I also enjoy Christopher Stascheff - his Warlock in Spite of Himself series has fun sci-fi, fantasy, time travel and an epileptic robot - and the author is a strong Catholic, so there's nothing in the books that a protective parent should find to object to. I am not Catholic, but I found reading his point of view interesting. :) He's also got a related series about the warlock's oldest son, and a third about the warlock's other children. Another series, A Wizard in Rhyme, is pure fantasy. Stascheff is a big fan of puns - fair warning.
Orson Scott Card's Ender books - Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the Mind - should be safe. They're not childish, but don't have content that would offend or concern your parents, it sounds like. Some of his other books might. I read Songmaster when about 11 and hated it - it was too adult for me at the time. I read it about 5 years later and loved it - I just needed an older perspective to understand it.
C.S. Friedman doesn't necessarily sound right for you at this time - but I would advise you read her once strictures on your reading are relaxed a bit. She's not terribly sexually explicit, but she's very much about exploring the dark side of human nature warring with the light, and her books tend to be a lot about struggling with shades of grey in life. I enjoy them a lot - when you get a chance, I hope you do to!
I'll echo David Eddings. I enjoyed the Elenium and Tamuli most, though the Garion series were good too. I don't like his more recent work as much. The Redemption of Althalus wasn't too bad, but it felt like the Garion series condensed from 5 books to 1.
Sharon Shinn has some really good books. The Archangel series is a very nice retrograde colony sci fi series, she has her "The Twelve Houses" series as fantasy, and standalone books like Summers at Castle Auburn. Heart of Gold is a fascinating standalone novel on a different world where two races have very different cultures - one matriarchal, one patriarchal - and it explores the differences between the two, the effect they might have on individuals belonging to the cultures, the different genders in general, and on those few people with a foot in both cultures, trying to live with and understand each other. I found it quite well thought out and interesting. Sharon Shinn usually has some romance as well.
A couple favorite sci-fi series are the Mageworlds books by Debra Doyle & James D. Macdonald and Phoenix Legacy (The Sword of the Lamb, Shadow of the Swan, House of the Wolf) by M.K. Wren. Mageworlds is space opera at it's most fun and exciting! Heavily influenced by Star Wars and an absolute blast. The Phoenix Legacy might be difficult to find - I read it in my local library as a teen and wanted copies for myself - and couldn't find them. Anywhere. I was literally on the verge of stealing them from the library to own and paying whatever fine they imposed for the "lost" books when a special "Author's Guild" version was published, and I snatched them up. These are also a lot like Star Wars - with a healthy dose of Frank Herbert's love of societal and cultural manipulation and analysis mixed in! Great fun!
Hm. This is getting rather long. Steven Brust hasn't been mentioned, I believe. He would probably be okay for your parents, and he's great fun fantasy too. And there are undoubtedly a million others. But I should leave it before I get ridiculous.
I sympathize with your concerns about what you're allowed to read - I'm from a very conservative Christian household as well, and while my parents (who actually gamed themselves!) would always encourage my reading, there was a long period when I couldn't get much because the only library available to me was the small Christian junior high school's library. I did find some older speculative fiction by authors like Andre Norton, and it got me through. I think there's a lot more age appropriate fiction available now, though.
So...enthusiatic reading geek girls of the world unite! Or something.
Happy reading.
Two more authors I forgot about:
Katherine Kurtz; the Deryni novels as well as some other works; the inhabitants of the Deryni universe are very Christian (at least the ones that are the focus of the stories), with a a splash of mysticism
Christopher Rowley; the Bazil Broketail saga has some unique elements (dragons trained to fight in formation as part of an army) and interesting magical systems
Where to begin?
I am a "child", and with precious little previous experience in "geek culture", or serious literature studies. I am thirteen, I know more about Twilight than I know about the person called Terry Pratchett, I am eagerly awaiting the time when I can continue reading Salvatore's novels, and I would still like to try 4E.
I read, game, and write for my own enjoyment, using my own standards for what is enjoyable, and I see no reason why this is inferior to reading, gaming, etc. using any other standards. It is difficult to learn about and integrate yourself in a subculture wherein each member seems determined to prove that he/she knows best and will not budge an inch from that opinion, even when they allow others their own opinion. While I admire individualism and understand the desire to converse intelligently about a subject one has a passion for, is it any wonder that the current generation of young gamers is leaning towards World of Warcraft and 4E when the more traditional, "sophisticated" group of geeks are so apparently anti-newbie? Not all of us are fortunate enough to have gaming mentors or older, well-read friends in real life.
Therefore, I refuse to be ashamed of my ongoing love of The Legend of Drizzt and quite a lot of kid's books, and I am now satisfied that I have at least tried to get my point across.
(This may be on the wrong forum. Admins, feel free to move it).
I would like to discuss the following topics on this thread, if others will reply with lack of negativity or condescension;
-The Legend of Drizzt
-The Earthsea Cycle by Ursula K. Le Guin
-Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson
-Narnia
-LotR
Yeah, the worst part of gamers, is the complete antisocial behavior that comes with it.
as too the other stuff, i tried 4e (6 months of a game) and didn't like it, but as i play pathfinder/3e and know people that consider d20 to be a joke for a system, i just try to keep my mouth shut.
I loved all of the Drizzt books when i was younger, but the more books i read the less i was willing to go back to it, it works better when you are young. I listened to the first book of The Earthsea Cycle, and didn't like it. The Mistborn stuff is fantastic, and i plan on keeping up with it and anything else Brandon Sanderson writes until I stop. Haven't read any of the Narnia stuff, so no opinion.
I would suggest Enders Game (by Orsen Scott Card), The Farseer Series (by Robin Hobb).
Books I like, that I think would pass any ones mom.
- Wheel of time by Robert Jordan.
A bit of romance, none of the results (at least not until later, and pretty subtle even then) Lots of action, a bit of gore, but never in detail. Cool magic system, and lots of politics. A bit slow at times (book 5 especially) but overall a fun series I've read several times.
Mr. Jordan passed away before he was able to conclude the series, but it is being finished by Brandon Sanderson.
- The Tiffany Aching trilogy by Sir Terry Pratchett.
It isn't actually called that, but he's written 3 books about her. (So far)
They are:
The Wee free men.
A hat full of sky and
Wintersmith.
Very good books if you ask me :) They are also written for, as the author says it "Young Adults"
- Mistborn series by Brandon Sanderson
But as I understood it you've already read them.
- Enders Game and Enders Shadow
These are actually sci-if, which I don't normally like much, but these blew me away. Great books!
The rest of the series I'm less happy about.
and finally, a short little gem that everyone should read:
Orphans of the sky by Robert A. Heinlein
Its a short sci-if book about a society that has developed aboard a stranded star ship. Very entertaining and it makes you think :)
It is only 112 pages, and fairly easy to read. So, well worth the time :)
- As for the original topic:
I'm usually one of the people you talk about in the original post.
Not the "omg you haven't read everything I have" - type. But I do tend to push people towards reading what I like. Why? Because I like them of course. :D
People of this kind have always been around, and will always be around.
The key is to not care about most of what these people say, and drawing from the experience they DO offer. Most of them (us?) are fairly well read, especially on fantasy, and have lots to offer.
Being online and discussing books, or anything where people have strong personal opinions is often hard, and you're very often met with the "I'm right, you're wrong"-attitude.
That doesn't mean you can't gain anything from these people though. Just because you don't agree with someone, and he/she isn't willing to discuss doesn't mean you can't take something away from the conversation.
Perhaps the books suggested really are good. You won't know until you read them yourself. until you have, treat that persons "OMG THESE ARE THE BEST BOOKS IN THE UNIVERSE"- statements as book recommendations, and let the obvious stupidity pass ;)
Yes, it is a bad thing that newcomers are treated badly, but as long as they are (and they will be) it is better to help these newbies to get over it, then it is to try to eradicate it. (and best of all, both!)
Internet is only two-way if you want it to be, and it is very possible to get something positive out of things, even if they seem overly negative. :)
I loved all of the Drizzt books when i was younger, but the more books i read the less i was willing to go back to it, it works better when you are young.
I've expressed my opinion on the subject in another thread, and will do so again here. I was 28 when I first read the Drizzt books. I loved the first 6 of them, but felt that the next 2 1/2 of them were too slow, as the series seemed to be stretched too thin.
A couple of years later, I read Homeland for the second time, and started to read The Crystal Shard a second time, but couldn't get through it. I don't think it's because I matured all that much in the couple of years in between readings. I just didn't feel the series was good enough to warrant a second reading.
That other thread I mentioned had a title like "The older I get, the less I like Salvatore." A couple of posters in that thread expressed an opinion more like "The more he writes, the less I like Salvatore."
Obviously, many people will disagree about that.
Admittedly I've only skimmed through most of the responses, but has anyone suggested Mercedes Lackey? Her newer stuff is not nearly as good, but she has quite a few series with strong female protagonists on the front lines. The Herald-Mage series has a little more sexuality in it, but not too bad. Gore is generally kept to a minimum, and the stories are more about characters.
I highly recommend:
The Heralds of Valdemar series: Arrows of the Queen, (you can tell it's her first book, but it's still very well written.), Arrow's Flight, and Arrow's Fall
Vows and Honors series: The Oathbound, Oathbreakers, and Oathblood
Not part of the Vows and Honors series, but related: By the Sword. An excellent read on a young woman learning to be a commander of an army.
The Last Herald-Mage series: Magic's Pawn, Magic's Promise, and Magic's Price
The Mage Winds series: Winds of Fate, Winds of Change, and Winds of Fury (focuses mainly on the Princess growing in her powers)
The Mage Storms series: Storm Warning, Storm Rising, and Storm Breaking (honestly my favorites of the Valdemar series)
I also enjoyed The Black Gryphon, The White Gryphon, and the Silver Gryphon, but they are a little darker than her Valdemar series.
The Five Hundred Kingdoms books have all been very enjoyable without sex or a lot of gore. What if fairy tales were true?
The Diana Tregarde series is dark and includes belief in witchcraft, so your mom may not appreciate them (Children of the Night, Burning Water, Jinx High, and Trio of Sorcery)
I'll also second David Eddings, Raymond Feist, Joel Rosenberg, and Christopher Stasheff. Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series is good but repetitive after a while. Jennifer Roberson (the novels of Tiger and Del, Chronicles of the Cheysuli). Lynn Flewelling (but I found her novels to be darker than I expected). Deborah Chester. Tanya Huff. Holly Lisle. Um, I should probably stop now! :)
Some great reading tips in this thread! (And I agree, Pullman lays it on pretty thick)
Some urban fantasy:
Patricia Briggs - "Moon called", young female shapeshifting mechanic in trouble.
Emma Bull - "War for the Oaks"
Not exactly fantasy but fantasy inspired
Try
Ray Bradbury
"The Martian Chronicles"
or "Something wicked this way comes",
you will probably have to read "Fahrenheit 451" sooner or later, why not sooner:)
Connie Willis "Doomsday book" - a young woman travelling back in time, then something goes wrong...
Lemony Snicket "A series of unfortunate events" - Hilarious.
Connie Willis "Doomsday book" - a young woman travelling back in time, then something goes wrong...
This ones pretty brutal. Np sex or gore but a very dark story nonetheless.
Wow, I just wrote a post here with a pretty long reading list and such, and the boards ate it. I'm pretty p-o'd. In fact, I'm really mad about it.
My company is producing an RPG based off of the Valdemar series, if you end up liking them.
We could use some outside playtesters in a few months. innocent look
At thirteen, you write beautifully, with an ear for the language. You already seem to have the maturity to say "I like what I like...and I'm willing to listen to suggestions." These are both traits that I've seen thirty-somethings not handle so well.
Heck, if you're *interested* in writing for a living, email me at design (AT) adastragames.com and I'll point you at a web site where I work. You write better than 90% of the people I copy-edit there.
Being as you're young enough to be my daughter, I shall indulge in the vice of 'collegial parents' everywhere and offer unsolicited advice:
At some point, you're going to be out of high school and pressured to go on to postsecondary education. You'll be told a lot of things about it and it will be expected that you leap in right away.
My advice is to take a year or two off and get a job, ideally while living with either your parents or people you trust as roommates. Make sure that the job meets your minimum standard of living plus about 10%, and save that 10% in something that gets interest. Try to live debt free, and have that job be something that takes the minimum amount of your time possible to get that "Standard of Living + 10%".
Learn to cook. The number one secret of being a freelance writer is knowing how to cook for yourself and make rice and beans and potatoes into things you'll eat willingly.
Use the remaining time to hang out with college students, read the books you always wanted to read, go on hiking trips, indulge in experimentation in hobbies, etc.
If you can, spend at least one of those years working in a different country.
Your goal is to find out whatever the heck it is you enjoy in life, and then try and work out a plan to do that for a living.
THEN go to college and take the classes that will help you implement that plan.
Learn a practical, non-girlie skill. Welding, blacksmithing, laying pipe, running electrical wiring, building computers from pieces and parts. Something where you have to not only absorb a body of abstract knowledge, but also have to learn body and motion control to go with it.
Consider taking up a martial art, or any other kind of activity where your overly developed intellect doesn't help you. You'll fall down a lot, you'll fail a lot, but you learn more from failing than succeeding.
Don't be afraid to try new things because you'll fail at them. Try new things because you expect to learn from them, and welcome each failure as a learning experience.
As to reading material:
The Heinlein Juveniles hold up remarkably well. The man had a gift for transparent writing that is underappreciated. Anything from Heinlein past about the mid 70s, approach with extreme caution.
Big thumbs up for Madeline L'Engle.
If you liked the EarthSea series, there are more books by LeGuin in that setting; I don't think they're as good, largely because LeGuin isn't the same person who wrote the first three books, and she doesn't self-edit as tightly.
The EarthSea trilogy is best described as "Imagine that Hemingway wrote fantasy as Daoist parables about the perils of being the man of action rather than the man of contemplation."
Another recommendation is the Riddlemaster Trilogy by Patricia McKillip. The first two and a third books in that are amazingly well crafted and tight in the use of their language. The last two third of the third book is merely stunningly superb. (My guess, based on author interviews, is that the first two books were ones that she rewrote obsessively before sending them off to be published, and she underestimated how much time it would take to get the third one done.)
Tea with the Black Dragon by Roberta McAvoy. (Nearly anything by Bertie McAvoy is good. The Damiano trilogy is also good.)
The Harper Hall trilogy by Anne McCaffrey is a good introduction to her Pern novels. The first Pern trilogy is excellent; later books slowly trip over her continuity and somewhat formulaic plots.
The Harry Dresden series and the Alera Codex by Jim Butcher both get good recommends from me. I read Jim's first two books in the series in rough draft, sent him commentary that he took to heart, and introduced him to his first agent...by getting hit by the car of another of her clients.
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Speaking of RPG recommendations, there's also Blue Rose. IIRC, Mercedes Lackey has some hand in it. Or she was one of the inspirations for it. It veers heavily towards the romantic fantasy side of things.
Looking around online might show quite a bit of bashing of the game, but keep in mind that it's coming from folks soundly outside its target demographic, from what I've seen.
(it's not my thing, but I'll never understand the rage it induces in people it was never aimed at to begin with)
Oh? I thought Final Sword Production was generating the official rpg based off the D6 system.My company is producing an RPG based off of the Valdemar series, if you end up liking them.
Ad Astra Games is an imprint of Final Sword Productions. I'm the rules monkey. :)