What I want from Ultimate Magic is "Blank"


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Eh, I see the Sorcerer fulfilling the role of the Warlock now, and the Witch has some of that "warlock" flavor with the hexes.

I don't really want a new Warlock, since I felt like it made the sorcerer irrelevant.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

One of the great things about the warlock was the lack of bookkeeping it required. Everything was either a constant ability, or useable at will. At worst, there might have been a 1/day power (fiendish resilence?), and maybe you had to keep track of some invocations that had a duration, or could only manifest one thing at a time (chilling tentacles).

So it was a really easy magic using class for newbies or players that like to keep things simple. The only "complicated" part was choosing invocations, and usually a newbie or whatever could get guidance for that during leveling up and character creation. Otherwise, it was really easy to play, and scaled pretty well too. I played one from level 2-12 or so, and another one in an epic campaign, and it held its own all those levels of play.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

In that respect, the alchemist is nothing like the warlock. Heck, the wizard is generally easier than the alchemist since they just have a list of spells that they cross off as they use them. Alchemist has to keep track of bombs per day, extracts made and not consumed, extracts not yet made, and which version of the mutigan this is. Yea, the alchemist is a very bookkeeping heavy class.


DMcCoy1693 wrote:
-Anvil- wrote:
Also I REALLY WANT TO SEE SOME SORT OF WARLOCK CLASS!!!!
Really? Because I thought the Alchemist was the Pathfinder Warlock knock off. Ranged touch attacks, spells (after a fashion), class features that alter the ranged touch attack.

Yes they have a lot in common, I agree. But the alchemist has a lot of Rogue in him as well. Plus the flavor is different. Also the Warlock was great at causing status and battlefield conditions.

I'll settle for some good crunch for Clerics over a new Paizo "warlock" though.

Clerics have been nigh on ignored in Pathfinder.


Chronomancy, Wild Magic, and Chronomancy.

Sovereign Court

I'd like for the Magus to be sort of like a cross between a Monk (with lots of innate, self-enhancing abilities) and a 3.5 Duskblade (with some spellcasting).

Above all, I'd like for the book to stick to Vancian spellcasting.


Tatterdash wrote:


Chronomancy, Wild Magic, and Chronomancy.

Agreed. I'd choose telling time to sit-down-and-shut-up over telling the same to physics any day. =D

As I recall, there was a 9th level spell in a Dragon Magazine issue that made a spellcaster immortal. =D

The Exchange

I am quite interested in magic item creation. As such, I would like to see magical items that are not combat-oriented. Things that can be used for every-day long-term activities.

One of the things I find difficult to deal with is that fact that many transmutation spells do not allow for the creation of diguises over a long-term period of time. Most only last a couple of minutes, which, even with Extend Spell, will not be enough time for a spy-type spellcaster to do her work. I would love to see some transmutation / disguise spells with extended durations.

The Craft Consturct feat, as currently written, is useless. There are no constructs that can be made at 5th level, due to the fact that they require limited wish to create. I would like to see low-level constructs that can travel more than 1,500 feet away from their masters (like the homunculus in the classic Sinbad film).

Perhaps a template that couls turn an existing creature into a construct (similar to that in Advanced Bestiary by Green Ronin but including rules on using it with the Craft Consturct feat).

Paizo has yet to let me down, so I am sure you will do great with this book. Looking forward to it!


Jacob Blackmon wrote:

I am quite interested in magic item creation. As such, I would like to see magical items that are not combat-oriented. Things that can be used for every-day long-term activities.

One of the things I find difficult to deal with is that fact that many transmutation spells do not allow for the creation of diguises over a long-term period of time. Most only last a couple of minutes, which, even with Extend Spell, will not be enough time for a spy-type spellcaster to do her work. I would love to see some transmutation / disguise spells with extended durations.

The Craft Consturct feat, as currently written, is useless. There are no constructs that can be made at 5th level, due to the fact that they require limited wish to create. I would like to see low-level constructs that can travel more than 1,500 feet away from their masters (like the homunculus in the classic Sinbad film).

Perhaps a template that couls turn an existing creature into a construct (similar to that in Advanced Bestiary by Green Ronin but including rules on using it with the Craft Consturct feat).

Paizo has yet to let me down, so I am sure you will do great with this book. Looking forward to it!

Hat of disguise? O_o

Liberty's Edge

Squidmasher wrote:

I'd like for the Magus to be sort of like a cross between a Monk (with lots of innate, self-enhancing abilities) and a 3.5 Duskblade (with some spellcasting).

Above all, I'd like for the book to stick to Vancian spellcasting.

Although I would not mind a different, but optional, kind of spellcasting offered in the book, I definitely tend to be more in the pro Vancian spellcasting camp myself :)

Also, if that is the kind of class you like, might I suggest you take a look at the new Vanguard class from Super Genius Games. It might be to your liking.


Marc Radle wrote:
Also, if that is the kind of class you like, might I suggest you take a look at the new Vanguard class from Super Genius Games. It might be to your liking.

is it as cool as the spell-less ranger?

Liberty's Edge

MerrikCale wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Also, if that is the kind of class you like, might I suggest you take a look at the new Vanguard class from Super Genius Games. It might be to your liking.
is it as cool as the spell-less ranger?

Spell-less Ranger? Never heard of it. ;)

In all seriousness, I think that's probably for others to decide (I know I'M very proud of it though ;)

The Exchange

I just thought of some additonal things I would like to see...

The equivalent of Metamagic feats for Channel Energy.

Think about Widen Channeling, where a cleric spends additional uses of channel energy to increase the burst area.

How about Lingering Channel, where those affected by the Channel Energy take some additional healing/damage the following round.

This idea was brought about when discussing with one of my players regarding counter-channeling. He was thinking about instituting a rule where channel energy could counter each other, similar to counterspells. The difference would be in how powerful the channeled energy was compared to each other.

For example, if Evil Cleric was channeling negative energy with 5d6, and Good cleric was attempting to counter-channel with only 4d6 of positive energy, the Evil Cleric's channeling would only cause 1d6 negative energy damage.

The Exchange

So... of course, I see the new Super genius Games idea has already hit upon this AFTER I make the post.

*facepalm*

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

What I want to see is one of 3 options for the Magus iconic.

1) A redheaded dwarf woman. Plays off of the old "dwarves don't use arcane magic" idea from OD&D and AD&D, as well as giving us a female dwarf iconic.

2) A smiling, handsome half-orc man. Contrasts with the grim and harsh (though not necessarily unattractive) Imrijka.

3) A bright, cheery half-elf woman. With the idea floating around for a Magus iconic vs. Seltiyel piece of art, why not just go for bright and cheery and totally non-Goth half-elf fighter/mage?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Kvantum wrote:

What I want to see is one of 3 options for the Magus iconic.

1) A redheaded dwarf woman. Plays off of the old "dwarves don't use arcane magic" idea from OD&D and AD&D, as well as giving us a female dwarf iconic.

2) A smiling, handsome half-orc man. Contrasts with the grim and harsh (though not necessarily unattractive) Imrijka.

3) A bright, cheery half-elf woman. With the idea floating around for a Magus iconic vs. Seltiyel piece of art, why not just go for bright and cheery and totally non-Goth half-elf fighter/mage?

A fun option would be a gnome or halfling magus who was a serious threat after using magic to beef up their fighting ability and catching people off guard who overlook the small races as viable melee threats.


In general, more character creation options. I'm a big fan of some of these class alternatives, and I want more, damnit.

In specific:

-A Druid/Witch PRC. These classes were made for one another, and Arcane hierophant doesn't quite do it, nor does mystic theurge (Also, I'm tired of porting it over to get a companion familiar, certainly we can make this a feat or something).

-Non-wildshaping druids (shockingly, several druid players I know don't really like shapeshifting, but want AC options and like the spell list)(Yes, one of them is me).

-More Eidolon Options-Honestly, this is the thing about the Eidolon system that I don't think worked. It's supposed to be this amazing mystical creature of flux, but it's really just a collection of bodyparts. I want more magical options, like blinking, displacement, invisibility, SLAs. I get that the existing SLA was too much, but it shouldn't be gone completely.

-More nukes! (and better ones at that).

-More Hexes (I can has greater flying hex?)

-Better dispelling rules


(On that note, guys, please don't derail the thread with name discussions. That happens quite a lot on this board, and it's very rude, and has nothing to do with the thread).


Oh yes, a better golem system!

One more like the Companion/Eidolon system or the Homunculi system from Eberron. Does anybody even use golems as they are now except for NPC villains?

EDIT: Oh yes, and a wild shaping Ranger Variant. One who can actually shapeshift before ya know, level 20.

Sovereign Court

Marc Radle wrote:
Squidmasher wrote:

I'd like for the Magus to be sort of like a cross between a Monk (with lots of innate, self-enhancing abilities) and a 3.5 Duskblade (with some spellcasting).

Above all, I'd like for the book to stick to Vancian spellcasting.

Although I would not mind a different, but optional, kind of spellcasting offered in the book, I definitely tend to be more in the pro Vancian spellcasting camp myself :)

Also, if that is the kind of class you like, might I suggest you take a look at the new Vanguard class from Super Genius Games. It might be to your liking.

Wow, I just bought the guide to the class, and that was exactly like what I was looking for. That was perfect.

Well, I guess the Magus has to be different, then.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Velderan wrote:
EDIT: Oh yes, and a wild shaping Ranger Variant. One who can actually shapeshift before ya know, level 20.

Not saying this couldn't be in the Ultimate Magic book, but the various Aspect spells in the APG are on the ranger list and gives at least partial shapeshifting.


hazel monday wrote:

Not to be a stick in the mud, but what I want from Ultimate Magic is for it not to exist.

There's too many rulebooks being released in too short a time for my tastes. I've bought every Pathfinder book Paizo's published to date with a smile on my face. But I'd prefer they stick to adventures and make less rules related books.

All these new rulebooks lined up has me apprehensive.

+1

My concern is intensified when Mr Jacobs refers to the hardcover books as behind only the AP's in income generation for Paizo.

I know these are all just 'options' you theoretically dont have to have to play the game but the fact Paizo seems to be heading towards 4 player books by the end of 2011 (base rulebook, APG, & the two new ones announced)- and it includes the stuff form these books in it's modules/AP's to me is concerning.

More modules/AP's less rules please

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
JoelF847 wrote:
Kvantum wrote:

What I want to see is one of 3 options for the Magus iconic.

1) A redheaded dwarf woman. Plays off of the old "dwarves don't use arcane magic" idea from OD&D and AD&D, as well as giving us a female dwarf iconic.

2) A smiling, handsome half-orc man. Contrasts with the grim and harsh (though not necessarily unattractive) Imrijka.

3) A bright, cheery half-elf woman. With the idea floating around for a Magus iconic vs. Seltiyel piece of art, why not just go for bright and cheery and totally non-Goth half-elf fighter/mage?

A fun option would be a gnome or halfling magus who was a serious threat after using magic to beef up their fighting ability and catching people off guard who overlook the small races as viable melee threats.

A halfling would be OK, but another gnome would make 3 gnome iconics, 2 elves, 1 dwarf, 1 halfling, 1 half-elf, 1 half-orc, and 9 humans. Why should gnomes be the most represented demihuman race? Dwarf, half-orc, half-elf, or halfling, please.

And as far as rules bloat concerns, remember, Paizo just physically can't publish as many rules expansions as WotC did. Two rules hardbacks a year plus a Bestiary and a Campaign Setting expansion is about all they can do in terms of editing and developing without going insane. 2 rules expansions is a lot less than what we were subjected to in the latter days of 3e, after all.


Kvantum wrote:


And as far as rules bloat concerns, remember, Paizo just physically can't publish as many rules expansions as WotC did. Two rules hardbacks a year plus a Bestiary and a Campaign Setting expansion is about all they can do in terms of editing and developing without going insane. 2 rules expansions is a lot less than what we were subjected to in the latter days of 3e, after all.

yep, but even so I hope that by end of 2012 I wont have 6 or more 250+ page 'players option' type books to refer to. 3e bloat (and 2e bloat for that matter) was abysmal and being better than that is an improvement but being only a bit better would be bad IMO.

Given Paizo refer to huge pressure they are under to release two rule books a year (monster books are different)as part of their schedule my preference is Dont Do It. Inevitably there are plenty of errata that need to be attended to partly due to the desre to keep up the production schedule- avoid this and avoid clogging up the game. Release 1 additional rule book a year, or better yet 1 every 2 years.

Third party publishers release a ton of rule book options all the time, but they truly feel optional. Paizo's released options feel more mandatory to me. As it passes 1000 pages of Paizo rules for the PFRPG it may begin to put new players off.

When I started AD&D we had the PHB, the DMG and the MM- players only had to read the PHB and about 2/3rds of that was spell list- great- it was about 7 years before UA arrived and we were fine (and frankly UA classes were lame so it really only added some spells and magic items).

I know people will say that they are gagging for new bloodlines, a words of power magic system (whatever that is), or finally a fighter/magic user that works in d20 (dont know how this wasn't included in the APG btw) and on the last point I kind of agree. I also like the idea of new spells for current classes. But for me I am becoming a bit disenchanted, a bit apprehensive and I hope the rush to produce new rules dries up soon.


Werecorpse wrote:

yep, but even so I hope that by end of 2012 I wont have 6 or more 250+ page 'players option' type books to refer to. 3e bloat (and 2e bloat for that matter) was abysmal and being better than that is an improvement but being only a bit better would be bad IMO.

Given Paizo refer to huge pressure they are under to release two rule books a year (monster books are different)as part of their schedule my preference is Dont Do It. Inevitably there are plenty of errata that need to be attended to partly due to the desre to keep up the production schedule- avoid this and avoid clogging up the game. Release 1 additional rule book a year, or better yet 1 every 2 years.

Third party publishers release a ton of rule book options all the time, but they truly feel optional. Paizo's released options feel more mandatory to me. As it passes 1000 pages of Paizo rules for the PFRPG it may begin to put new players off.

When I started AD&D we had the PHB, the DMG and the MM- players only had to read the PHB and about 2/3rds of that was spell list- great- it was about 7 years before UA arrived and we were fine (and frankly UA classes were lame so it really only added some spells and magic items).

I know people will say that they are gagging for new bloodlines, a words of power magic system (whatever that is), or finally a fighter/magic user that works in d20 (dont know how this wasn't included in the APG btw) and on the last point I kind of agree. I also like the idea of new spells for current classes. But for me I am becoming a bit disenchanted, a bit apprehensive and I hope the rush to produce new rules dries up soon.

The problem with wanting new stuff limited to once every two years is that the system will start to look unsupported. Once that perception gets out, the number of people buying it and playing it will drop off. Paizo has to publish something new every so often or they will start to lose players. That said, I think 3 quality books per year is much better than 8 to 12 books per year like we used to get (or still do if you are a 4E player), especially if the new books don't add much.


Jason Ellis 350 wrote:
Werecorpse wrote:

yep, but even so I hope that by end of 2012 I wont have 6 or more 250+ page 'players option' type books to refer to. 3e bloat (and 2e bloat for that matter) was abysmal and being better than that is an improvement but being only a bit better would be bad IMO.

Given Paizo refer to huge pressure they are under to release two rule books a year (monster books are different)as part of their schedule my preference is Dont Do It. Inevitably there are plenty of errata that need to be attended to partly due to the desre to keep up the production schedule- avoid this and avoid clogging up the game. Release 1 additional rule book a year, or better yet 1 every 2 years.

Third party publishers release a ton of rule book options all the time, but they truly feel optional. Paizo's released options feel more mandatory to me. As it passes 1000 pages of Paizo rules for the PFRPG it may begin to put new players off.

When I started AD&D we had the PHB, the DMG and the MM- players only had to read the PHB and about 2/3rds of that was spell list- great- it was about 7 years before UA arrived and we were fine (and frankly UA classes were lame so it really only added some spells and magic items).

I know people will say that they are gagging for new bloodlines, a words of power magic system (whatever that is), or finally a fighter/magic user that works in d20 (dont know how this wasn't included in the APG btw) and on the last point I kind of agree. I also like the idea of new spells for current classes. But for me I am becoming a bit disenchanted, a bit apprehensive and I hope the rush to produce new rules dries up soon.

The problem with wanting new stuff limited to once every two years is that the system will start to look unsupported. Once that perception gets out, the number of people buying it and playing it will drop off. Paizo has to publish something new every so often or they will start to lose players. That said, I think 3 quality books per year is much better than 8 to 12 books per...

Well I think the bazillion modules, AP's, companions & chronicles might dispel that perception but I take your point, and I note many others want more and more and now. Still I would rather have 1 bestiary every couple of years, 1 non rushed errata free rulebook every couple of years, 1 non-essential/add on book(ie epic, psionic, oriental adventures, planar adventures, space adventures)every couple of years and maybe a compendium (spells, bloodlines etc or magic items) every couple of years. This is still 4 books every 2 years but only 1 of them is rules heavy. By rules heavy I mean new character classes, new feats etc. It is the multiple rules heavy books I have a problem with.

I still enjoy what paizo produces and how they think about this game system and I am still happy to support them with my subscription- but just because I am not 'voting with my wallet' should not mean I wouldn't prefer it slowed up a little

I guess I am not that at odds with Paizo's production schedule, it just feels like the bloat event horizon is already visible in the distance.

Sorry everyone this has got off point---

On point.

I like spells, more spells would be good. Can you do an analysis of the levels of spells that have lots of lame spells and not that many good spells and make spells specifically for these levels. IMO 7th level cleric spells are pretty poorly supported- 4 versions of holy word, a bunch of out of combat type spells and destruction-- I have had games where the clerics just take 4 destructions.

So, I want more plug & play spells,
perhaps more fluff,
less new rules (although I do want a decent fighter/magic user),
less feats


I would like to see a full Base Attack Bonus, 3/4 arcane spell progression witch prestige class called Hexblade. He'd use his hexes by cursing people as he hit them.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

This request/wish may be in the extreme minority, but I'd like to see a PrC that blends summoner with (maybe a martial class)... something on the order of the rage prophet, or battle herald (although the battle herald didn't add to bard spellcasting)... and maybe not having this hypothetical PrC "blend" with a martial class... perhaps a better way of phrasing would be a PrC that does for the summoner, what Master Chymist does for the alchemist. As a working "title" call it an Eidolon Adept, and its best class feature would be improving the summoner/eidolon link/bond... increase in spellcasting (like the rage prophet, nature warden), and maybe levels in the "Eidolon Adept" would stack for determining summoner levels/abilities...

I know what I'm trying to say, but I feel like I'm not saying it very well.

Don't lambaste me to harshly Paizoians... be kind with your thoughts. :P

Dean, (TMW)


Some kind of system for empathic magic.

Liberty's Edge

Squidmasher wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Squidmasher wrote:

I'd like for the Magus to be sort of like a cross between a Monk (with lots of innate, self-enhancing abilities) and a 3.5 Duskblade (with some spellcasting).

... if that is the kind of class you like, might I suggest you take a look at the new Vanguard class from Super Genius Games. It might be to your liking.

Wow, I just bought the guide to the class, and that was exactly like what I was looking for. That was perfect.

Awesome! Glad it was what you were looking for! If you feel like it, please feel free to post an actual product review over in the above linked thread:)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I'd also like to see different systems of magic, kind of like the 3.5 Tome of Magic.

I would also like to see magic archetypes for every class, even if it isn't spells or spell-like abilities. Supernatural abilities would be cool.

Feats that let you use magic or do magic things would be cool too.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Also, archtypes for magic classes that so far don't have them, even if they're not based on magical abilities. So, things like a scholarly wizard or cleric, that swapped our some stuff for more bardic knowledge type stuff, or battle sorcerers and clerics that got weapon and armor skills a bit, etc. While new subdomains, wizard schools, and bloodlines are great, there's other ways to customize these classes.


JoelF847 wrote:
Also, archtypes for magic classes that so far don't have them, even if they're not based on magical abilities. So, things like a scholarly wizard or cleric, that swapped our some stuff for more bardic knowledge type stuff, or battle sorcerers and clerics that got weapon and armor skills a bit, etc. While new subdomains, wizard schools, and bloodlines are great, there's other ways to customize these classes.

Because there are GMs out there who will say "you can't play a Battle Sorcerer based on Wizards' Unearthed Arcana because there are no battle sorcerers in Pathfinder".

Note: I am not being sarcastic. That was actually what the GM of my current game said to me. XD


JoelF847 wrote:
Also, archtypes for magic classes that so far don't have them, even if they're not based on magical abilities. So, things like a scholarly wizard or cleric, that swapped our some stuff for more bardic knowledge type stuff, or battle sorcerers and clerics that got weapon and armor skills a bit, etc. While new subdomains, wizard schools, and bloodlines are great, there's other ways to customize these classes.

+1.

I'd really like to see a lightly-armed, lightly-armored (or unarmored) Cleric archetype.


What I would want? Well, I'm sure I've said some of this before, but here we go ...

Alternate Spell Casters: Things like Rune Magic, Wild Magic, Pact Magic and Truename Magic. I loved Tome of Magic for 3.5 and would like to see something equivalent to that, as well as how these types of mages would fit into Golarion proper. Is pact magic forbidden? Do truenamers belong to a secret society? etc.

Alternate Spell Systems: How about some new kinds of using magic? Like a Skills & Feats style of magic? Or maybe a Freeform magic system? Dark magic that runs off from blood and souls? I would especially like to see a new system that worked with the Truenamer.

Archetypes: I love the Archetypes rules in the APG and would like to see some for all the classes. Maybe this could be a good way to get across the Alternate Spell Casters?

Magical Traits for Species: How about natural spell-casting traits for the races? How would they fit into Golarion?

Magical Critters: A small section on creatures that are magical incarnate? Living spells, spelleaters, etc.

Points of Magic: Expanded rules for places of magic and how they alter the flow of magic in a game. This could cover Ley Lines, Stonehenge and other mystical areas.

Prestige Classes: How about various secret societies in Golarion that use magic? Something akin to the Red Wizards of Thay or some such? Or how about ancient cults that worship tentacled horrors from beyond?

Items: Expanded rules on Magic Item Creation, with more magic items and some nifty artifacts. I would love to see a Golarion version of The Hand and Eye of Vecna ;)

Hmm ... if I can think of anything else, I'll try and post it :)


Better, more interesting, simpler system for counterspelling.

At least 3 different theories of magic to give PCs plenty to argue about.

Archetypes for the new base classes.

Moar magic items; low-level ones <10,000 gp particularly.


The thing I'd really like to see? Mundane Means to Bypass Magic.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Madness Follows wrote:
The thing I'd really like to see? Mundane Means to Bypass Magic.

And superstitions that work.....maybe.

Liberty's Edge

A blighter base class. Sort of an antipaladin for the druid.

A jester archetype for the bard.


Greatbear wrote:

A blighter base class. Sort of an antipaladin for the druid.

A jester archetype for the bard.

You must be joking. =p

How about race-specific options for other races to off-set the favoured class bonus of the humans? At the moment, sorcerers who choose not to be human lose out too much to be viable. Perhaps grant the same option to other races, but limit them to specific schools, with corresponding flavour-text justifying the option?

Gnomes-enchantment or illusion
Elves-conjuration and divination perhaps?
Half-elves-2 schools of choice? (mirroring the human option)
Dwarves-abjuration or conjuration?
Halflings-illusion or abjuration
Half-orcs-evocation or necromancy


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Lathiira wrote:

More alternate class features, particularly ones to give other classes a little magic (similar to the rogue talents) or to give spellcasters some extra tricks.

Alternate domain abilities.

Oh, and cake, pie, and BROWNIES!!!!!!

+1 on both these ideas.


Nothing for pre-existing casters. They're good enough >:|


I'll voice what I'm sure will be an unpopular opinion but while I'm sure there will be spells I'm hoping they won't be the lion's share of the material in Ultimate Magic. In my mind, if feat-bloat is a concern, spell-bloat is an even greater one. It's an exponential increase in material the GM & players have to digest, let alone be familiar with or gain proficiency with. Also, if Ultimate Magic is 100% optional, a huge influx of spells doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

What I'd prefer to see is more of a blend of GM-Guide advice & APG-style variants.

Things like:
1. Spellcaster archetypes, ala APG
2. Advice on the impact of magic on the game and rules for tailoring it suit your tastes.
3. Subsystems that can be applied to the existing magic system & rules. For example:
a. Arcana Evolved spell templates - obviously not a direct port unless permitted by Malhavoc, but it's a good example of how versatility can be applied to the Vancian system.
b. Rules for handling spell distribution & classification. Using another Arcana Evolved example, the sorting of spells into Simple, Complex, & Exotic. A similar concept could be applied to tailor spell lists & spell acquisition to represent various magical traditions. (Cyphermages vs. Bloatmages, for example.) What constitutes "black/forbidden magic"? Deity-specific clerical spell lists?
c. Ritualistic magic
d. Arcane University/Church-Temple Rules - something along the lines of the Community rules in the GM Guide or the Kindom-building rules in Kingmaker, but focused on Spellcaster organizations
e. Switches/levers for spellcasting customization - i.e. subsystems for apply skill-based casting, varying the "magic level" (either dialing it down or up)

Since all of these would be options that don't rewrite the underlying core, they could be applied to campaigns, games, & APs according to each group's tastes.

Magic is one of the most interesting, yet potentially game-breaking aspects of campaigns & play. Rather than your typical splat book of classes, feats, & spells, I'd MUCH rather have a book that handles some of the topics listed above to help me use magic more effectively to make the game better for me and my players.

Liberty's Edge

BPorter wrote:


Things like:
1. Spellcaster archetypes, ala APG
2. Advice on the impact of magic on the game and rules for tailoring it suit your tastes.
3. Subsystems that can be applied to the existing magic system & rules. For example:
a. Arcana Evolved spell templates - obviously not a direct port unless permitted by Malhavoc, but it's a good example of how versatility can be applied to the Vancian system.
b. Rules for handling spell distribution & classification. Using another Arcana Evolved example, the sorting of spells into Simple, Complex, & Exotic. A similar concept could be applied to tailor spell lists & spell acquisition to represent various magical traditions. (Cyphermages vs. Bloatmages, for example.) What constitutes "black/forbidden magic"? Deity-specific clerical spell lists?
c. Ritualistic magic
d. Arcane University/Church-Temple Rules - something along the lines of the Community rules in the GM Guide or the Kindom-building rules in Kingmaker, but focused on Spellcaster organizations
e. Switches/levers for spellcasting customization - i.e. subsystems for apply skill-based casting, varying the "magic level" (either dialing it down or up)

Excellent post - I pretty much agree with everything you suggest.


Random ideas:

ways to create a decent sized, varied army of undead without needing an epic spell. perhaps a ritual of some sort? but allowing more than just zombies and skeletons, wraiths, ghouls, shadows, etc

advice on how to actually handle an artifact in game.

as much customization of golems as possible, including adding in higher stats, skills(if you make them more intelligent somehow), feats, SLAs, etc.

Feats, perhaps of a rather high level, that let you admix an unusual energy such as force, unholy, negative, etc.

Of course, more Archetypes, Hexes, Bloodlines, Domains/Subdomains, and as said before, Archtypes for Clerics, Wizards and Sorcs that aren't based on Schools, Domains, or Bloodlines.

I would love to see a Witch or Druid(perhaps both) Weather Witch PrC. there has been a real lack of such. something that isn't just limited to one aspect of weather as lightning seems to be, but something that allows full and total mastery of rain, sleet, snow, thunder, lighting and more.

Dark Archive

SUMMONING ARCHETYPE: A summoner archetype that replaces the eidolon with significantly improved summoning capabilities.

MAGUS THAT CAN FIGHT: A magus that has full BAB and casts from first-level (this is not a request for primary or even necessarily secondary casting), even if that means it's an archetype for the class.

FLEXIBLE ALTERNATE FAVOURED CLASS BONUSES: Suggestions for coming up with alternate favoured class bonuses for characters with 3.5/third party/homebrew races or classes.

BACKWARDS-COMPATIBLE SPELLS: Guidelines for marrying 3.5 spellcasting classes with Pathfinder spells and vice versa.

GREATER HEXES FOR DEBUFFING: Higher level hexes for the witch who wants to focus on debuffing.

MORE MUTAGEN DISCOVERIES: More discoveries for the alchemist who wants to specialize in using mutagens pretty much from the start.

The Exchange

For the Words of Power magic system to be able to stand up next to Vancian casting and you are able to use both of them in the same game without either one being overpowered.

Liberty's Edge

1) viable Non-vancian magic system based on mana or fatigue.

2) Spell design/customization options beyond metamagic (which I find to be clunky).

3) More-than-cosmetic differences between arcane specialties.

4) Location-based magic such as ley lines

5) Lots of magic items and abilities that don't merely mimic modern technology, but have weird, interesting, and unpredictable powers.


definately rituals


Wizard and Sorceror Archetypes that ARE NOT more bloodlines and school specializations. (I will note that the Witch base class should just be a wizard archetype, trading specialization for Hexes and a different spell list...)

Given that you keep on giving wizards methods of spontaneously casting (Bonded Item, Amulet of Magecraft, Annihilation Spectacles, Necromancer's Athame), some love the other direction, so sorcerors can take advantage of the ever widening parade of wizard spells.

Given the # of wizard focused items that are out there, some items focused on the other base classes (sorceror, summoner, witch, Oracle, Alchemist).

A playtest of the spells and feats section. This is more important than a playtest of the magus class - it is the myriad of interactions that your staff cannot cover, which hides game breaking effects.

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