Greg A. Vaughan Frog God Games |
Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
Matthew Morris wrote:90's jacket, yes.
New and original 'marking her enemies' (so new the Phantom did it in the 30's) check.
... which Mytbusters busted.
Human Bone shatters before any kind of imprint can be left in the skin.
I'm willing to let that slide, especially in Diana's case. "It's Magic"
But with the reboot/retcon bomb, I'm worried it hoses my two favourite DC heroes, Donna and Cassie. Not to mention playing hob with Kara Zor-El's history, Harlene Quinzell's, Final Crisis etc etc.
In fact, it was the final motivation I needed to pick up Birds of Prey.
Freehold DM |
Meh. I like the new look,but its not going to be there forever, so the old guard is going to have to deal for a few issues. The original look IS iconic, but it's also rather silly if it isn't updated every few years. At the very least ditch the star-laden bikini bottom or skirt- that's lead to sooooooo many bad jokes over the years.
Did my women's studies course and it turns out the idea of Wonder Woman losing her powers has been quite heavily debated over the years- some found it offensive that she lost the only power she had, others were happy that she didn't "need" her powers to fight crime. In many ways, it was the Bewitched/I Dream of Jeannie argument, just for a comic book.
Aaron Bitman |
(This is almost as bad as when Sekowsky took away her powers in the early 1970s.)
Yeah, that New York Times article quoted Michael Straczynski as saying "She’s been locked into pretty much the exact same outfit since her debut in 1941,” which is obviously false. She had a completely different look for 16 issues (issues 178 - 203).
Human Bone shatters before any kind of imprint can be left in the skin.
<slaps own face> What? You mean comics are unrealistic?
Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
Freehold DM |
Lord Fyre wrote:(This is almost as bad as when Sekowsky took away her powers in the early 1970s.)Yeah, that New York Times article quoted Michael Straczynski as saying "She’s been locked into pretty much the exact same outfit since her debut in 1941,” which is obviously false. She had a completely different look for 16 issues (issues 178 - 203).
Lord Fyre wrote:Human Bone shatters before any kind of imprint can be left in the skin.<slaps own face> What? You mean comics are unrealistic?
16 issues? When she's been kicking since 1941? Cut 'em some slack.
Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
Callous Jack |
Lord Fyre wrote:(This is almost as bad as when Sekowsky took away her powers in the early 1970s.)Yeah, that New York Times article quoted Michael Straczynski as saying "She’s been locked into pretty much the exact same outfit since her debut in 1941,” which is obviously false. She had a completely different look for 16 issues (issues 178 - 203).
Lord Fyre wrote:Human Bone shatters before any kind of imprint can be left in the skin.<slaps own face> What? You mean comics are unrealistic?
Thank goodness no one can prove her invisible jet doesn't exist!
Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
Aaron Bitman wrote:Thank goodness no one can prove her invisible jet doesn't exist!Lord Fyre wrote:(This is almost as bad as when Sekowsky took away her powers in the early 1970s.)Yeah, that New York Times article quoted Michael Straczynski as saying "She’s been locked into pretty much the exact same outfit since her debut in 1941,” which is obviously false. She had a completely different look for 16 issues (issues 178 - 203).
Lord Fyre wrote:Human Bone shatters before any kind of imprint can be left in the skin.<slaps own face> What? You mean comics are unrealistic?
Well, I know that I have never seen it.
Jam412 |
I like the new look myself. The other may have been iconic but it looked dated , far more so then any of the other big names.
I agree, I always though that she looked like she was wearing granny panties.
I think this new look is pretty good, but I'm not a big Wonder Woman fan, so I don't have a lot of stake in it.
Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
Lord Fyre wrote:Not clearly wasp-y save for the dark hair. Greek women look very...greek. There's no other way to describe it.Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:She's still white....WTF?That is a valid question.
Since she is (or was) a Greek Amazon, what ethnicity/skin color should she be?
Well, the Amazons of Greek Myth appear to be either from Ukraine (so would be "whiter" then the Greeks) - or - Lybia (North African, while not "black" would still be darker then the Greeks).
Callous Jack |
Lord Fyre wrote:Not clearly wasp-y save for the dark hair. Greek women look very...greek. There's no other way to describe it.Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:She's still white....WTF?That is a valid question.
Since she is (or was) a Greek Amazon, what ethnicity/skin color should she be?
I always thought she should look more like the way Romita Jr. and Miller drew Electra.
Freehold DM |
Freehold DM wrote:I always thought she should look more like the way Romita Jr. and Miller drew Electra.Lord Fyre wrote:Not clearly wasp-y save for the dark hair. Greek women look very...greek. There's no other way to describe it.Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:She's still white....WTF?That is a valid question.
Since she is (or was) a Greek Amazon, what ethnicity/skin color should she be?
Agreed.
Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
Meh. I like the new look,but its not going to be there forever, so the old guard is going to have to deal for a few issues. The original look IS iconic, but it's also rather silly if it isn't updated every few years. At the very least ditch the star-laden bikini bottom or skirt- that's lead to sooooooo many bad jokes over the years.
Did my women's studies course and it turns out the idea of Wonder Woman losing her powers has been quite heavily debated over the years- some found it offensive that she lost the only power she had, others were happy that she didn't "need" her powers to fight crime. In many ways, it was the Bewitched/I Dream of Jeannie argument, just for a comic book.
Did the class talk about the polyamourous house of the creator? I was kind of blown away by that.
I like the armoured Wonder Woman phase myself. Nice Greek armoured skirt. Here it is, albiet black lantern Wonder Woman.
Or This sans helmet and wings.
Or the Trinity version.
Even This one is better.
My big concern is the storyline though.
DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
I've been an insanely ginormous Wonder Woman fan since 1979 (I was 3 at the time, but I still remember watching Lynda Carter and running around in my Wonder Woman underoos back then).
Here's the thing: It's like deciding to dress Superman in a giant white and blue lightning strike. Or Batman in scary blue armor. Or, in fact, Wonder Woman in a leather jacket and bike shorts. Or Wonder Woman with no powers in a mod dress.
My guess? Like Edgy 90s Wonder Woman and Mod 70s Diana Prince, it won't last. Wonder Woman has a look as iconic as her fellow members of the Big Three. There is tons of merchandise out, right now, with the traditional Star Spangled Panties, and it's going to be nearly impossible to wipe that image from the public's mind.
Whenever I wear my Wonder Woman t-shirts, I get random comments from EVERYONE--mostly non-comics fans as well as comics fans. Her image is instantly recognizable by an extremely wide range of people--show people the new Jim Lee design and they'll be, "Who the heck is that?"
The design itself? It's not bad. Were it for a brand new superhero, even for one in the "Wonder Family" (a la, Wonder Girl, Donna Troy, Artemis, etc.) it's be great.
But it's not Wonder Woman.
The thing is, I love Wonder Woman--and you know what? I actually think her iconic costume is a little silly looking. It's star spangled panties and a red halter top with an eagle splayed across the boobies. As costume designs go, it's not great. But: it's still Wonder Woman. It's still what people know as Wonder Woman. It's been Wonder Woman for 69 years.
And ultimately, if people want to buy Wonder Woman merchandise, that's the image they want to buy. Wonder Woman sells extremely well across comics and non-comics fans alike, and if they change an image that sells well, they lose out.
And given Warner Brothers' priority is making money...
Again: Not going to last.
ETA: The REAL BIG DEAL for me? Has nothing to do with her costume. It's the change in writer. Gail Simone's run has been a little controversial, but ultimately, she's an excellent writer and brought the comic out of the gutter that the previous writers had tossed it in.
Before Gail, we had Alan whatsisface who writes <i>House</i>, who didn't know what a deadline was if you hit him in the head with one, and we had novelist Jodi Piccoult, whose characterization of the character was extremely unpopular.
I know J. Michael Straczynski is a decent writer--I loved Bab 5--but Wonder Woman's past history of having "famous" writers doesn't look good in her favor, and part of the problem is this incessant and entirely stupid need to re-brand and re-write the character in the famous writer's own image. IT DOESN'T WORK. It'll sell a few issues and then flop.
If you have to take it away from Gail (and honestly, I'm happier with her back on Birds of Prey), then give it to someone who knows the character and will do her justice, like Greg Rucka, or another talented comics writer who respects Wonder Woman for the icon that she is, not what they want her to be.
delabarre |
My first thought was, "1993 Superboy called -- he wants his short leather jacket back."
As far as the "pants" go -- they're actually leggings, which have been kind of a fashion trend lately...for which millions of fanboys (and dozens of DC artists) will likely be thankful.
delabarre |
I know J. Michael Straczynski is a decent writer--I loved Bab 5--but Wonder Woman's past history of having "famous" writers doesn't look good in her favor, and part of the problem is this incessant and entirely stupid need to re-brand and re-write the character in the famous writer's own image. IT DOESN'T WORK. It'll sell a few issues and then flop.
This.
My second thought was, "I wonder how long this will last before they grudgingly put her back in the old costume?"
Abbasax |
DeathQuaker wrote:I know J. Michael Straczynski is a decent writer--I loved Bab 5--but Wonder Woman's past history of having "famous" writers doesn't look good in her favor, and part of the problem is this incessant and entirely stupid need to re-brand and re-write the character in the famous writer's own image. IT DOESN'T WORK. It'll sell a few issues and then flop.This.
My second thought was, "I wonder how long this will last before they grudgingly put her back in the old costume?"
Someone rewrote time. They've made no effort to hide this in either interviews or the prelude story in #600. This means when she goes back to her old costume, it won't be because someone did it "grudgingly", it will because it's part of the plan.
DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
delabarre wrote:Someone rewrote time. They've made no effort to hide this in either interviews or the prelude story in #600. This means when she goes back to her old costume, it won't be because someone did it "grudgingly", it will because it's part of the plan.DeathQuaker wrote:I know J. Michael Straczynski is a decent writer--I loved Bab 5--but Wonder Woman's past history of having "famous" writers doesn't look good in her favor, and part of the problem is this incessant and entirely stupid need to re-brand and re-write the character in the famous writer's own image. IT DOESN'T WORK. It'll sell a few issues and then flop.This.
My second thought was, "I wonder how long this will last before they grudgingly put her back in the old costume?"
Ah, so we're at Same-old same-old "LOOK A COSTUME CHANGE---(not really)!" That they were doing in the 90s?
Whatever.
(PS: The "whatever" is directed to DC, not you guys. :) )
delabarre |
Someone rewrote time. They've made no effort to hide this in either interviews or the prelude story in #600. This means when she goes back to her old costume, it won't be because someone did it "grudgingly", it will because it's part of the plan.
I find your abundance of faith disturbing. ;-)
Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
Matthew Morris wrote:Or This sans helmet and wings.
Just nitpicking, but:
"Sans" is french for "without".
In the picture linked WW wears an helm and wings.
That's in her regular costume that she is "sans" helm and wings.
The Armoured skirt, the stars on the shoulders and the breast plate (not to mention the spear/sword/shield) are not her 'normal costume' That's what I was pointing to, the war skirt in particular. You lose the wings and hat she stole from Shayera when she was in the shower and it's a good outfit.
So I used 'sans' correctly ;-)
Le French Chef! |
Seldriss wrote:Matthew Morris wrote:Or This sans helmet and wings.
Just nitpicking, but:
"Sans" is french for "without".
In the picture linked WW wears an helm and wings.
That's in her regular costume that she is "sans" helm and wings.The Armoured skirt, the stars on the shoulders and the breast plate (not to mention the spear/sword/shield) are not her 'normal costume' That's what I was pointing to, the war skirt in particular. You lose the wings and hat she stole from Shayera when she was in the shower and it's a good outfit.
So I used 'sans' correctly ;-)
Monsieur Morrees, I am offended by your use of zhe Fronch language! Eet ees an outrage!
Abbasax |
Abbasax wrote:Someone rewrote time. They've made no effort to hide this in either interviews or the prelude story in #600. This means when she goes back to her old costume, it won't be because someone did it "grudgingly", it will because it's part of the plan.I find your abundance of faith disturbing. ;-)
Heh. Thanks. I sometimes get needlessly frustrated by comic fan's resistance to change, (DC got death threats when Superman had long hair for pity's sake!!) especially temporary change. I have to breath and repeat the mantra "Everyone's different. Everyone's special" for a couple of minutes. Also, overall I trust JMS, the majority of his stuff I've read, I've liked. After issue 600, I'm looking forward to his WW run. That being said, I'm not sold on his Superman run, but I'll give him two issues to hook me.
delabarre |
Heh. Thanks. I sometimes get needlessly frustrated by comic fan's resistance to change, (DC got death threats when Superman had long hair for pity's sake!!) especially temporary change. I have to breath and repeat the mantra "Everyone's different. Everyone's special" for a couple of minutes. Also, overall I trust JMS, the majority of his stuff I've read, I've liked. After issue 600, I'm looking forward to his WW run. That being said, I'm not sold on his Superman run, but I'll give him two issues to hook me.
I felt pretty burned by how quickly JMS' changes to Spider-Man (from "The Other") were retconned out...the ink almost wasn't dry.
Larry Lichman Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games |
I'm willing to give it a chance. After all, since it's a time travel origin, somewhere down the road we'll find out we've been reading about the Wonder Woman from Earth-GooglePlex who somehow got switched out with the Wonder Woman from the real DC Universe by some twisted, insidious plan cooked up by Darkseid, Max Lord, and Mr. Mzyxlpltk.
Luckily, when the two Wonder Women face off, Ralph and Sue Dibny and Ted Kord will be brought back to life by the chaos vortex generated by the two time paradoxes coming into contact. Ted and Ralph will then team up with the Wonder Women to take down Max Lord. Meanwhile, Barry Allen will trick Mzyxlpltk into saying his name backwards, and die again while forcing Darkseid back to the Source Wall...
Or some such nonsense...
Scipion del Ferro RPG Superstar 2011 Top 4 |
delabarre |
I'm willing to give it a chance. After all, since it's a time travel origin, somewhere down the road we'll find out we've been reading about the Wonder Woman from Earth-GooglePlex who somehow got switched out with the Wonder Woman from the real DC Universe by some twisted, insidious plan cooked up by Darkseid, Max Lord, and Mr. Mzyxlpltk.
You forgot Ambush Bug.
Abbasax |
Abbasax wrote:Heh. Thanks. I sometimes get needlessly frustrated by comic fan's resistance to change, (DC got death threats when Superman had long hair for pity's sake!!) especially temporary change. I have to breath and repeat the mantra "Everyone's different. Everyone's special" for a couple of minutes. Also, overall I trust JMS, the majority of his stuff I've read, I've liked. After issue 600, I'm looking forward to his WW run. That being said, I'm not sold on his Superman run, but I'll give him two issues to hook me.I felt pretty burned by how quickly JMS' changes to Spider-Man (from "The Other") were retconned out...the ink almost wasn't dry.
*Sigh* I really use to love Marvel until Joe Quesada became EIC. What he did to Spider-Man makes me all types of sad inside.
Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
I'm willing to give it a chance. After all, since it's a time travel origin, somewhere down the road we'll find out we've been reading about the Wonder Woman from Earth-GooglePlex who somehow got switched out with the Wonder Woman from the real DC Universe by some twisted, insidious plan cooked up by Darkseid, Max Lord, and Mr. Mzyxlpltk.
Luckily, when the two Wonder Women face off, Ralph and Sue Dibny and Ted Kord will be brought back to life by the chaos vortex generated by the two time paradoxes coming into contact. Ted and Ralph will then team up with the Wonder Women to take down Max Lord. Meanwhile, Barry Allen will trick Mzyxlpltk into saying his name backwards, and die again while forcing Darkseid back to the Source Wall...
Or some such nonsense...
Actually, something like this would be better. Since at least New Earth Donna would recgonize her. IIRC Donna actually remembers all her multiverse incarnations. (Which should make relations with Powergirl/Supergirl interesting since I think her and Kara Jor-L/Karen are the only ones who remember Earth 2 now)
Chris Mortika RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |
Of course this is temporary. It's a storyline, and the character will revert back to her trademark garb within a year at the latest. (We've seen the cover to Green Ronin's upcoming DC-based superhero RPG. It's got Diana in her standard uniform.)
In the artificial time-stream, there may not be a Teen Titans.
By the way, nobody here has yet to raise a protest that in Lynda Carter's introduction to the book, she comments that Wonder Woman's outfit is a collection of useful tools in terms of "She knows how to accessorize." How appallng. (JMS uses the phrase, too. Or perhaps it's only appalling when he uses it.)
Abbasax |
By the way, nobody here has yet to raise a protest that in Lynda Carter's introduction to the book, she comments that Wonder Woman's outfit is a collection of useful tools in terms of "She knows how to accessorize." How appallng. (JMS uses the phrase, too. Or perhaps it's only appalling when he uses it.)
Why is that appalling? It's not the phrasing I'd use, but I don't find it insulting in the least.
DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
Of course this is temporary. It's a storyline, and the character will revert back to her trademark garb within a year at the latest. (We've seen the cover to Green Ronin's upcoming DC-based superhero RPG. It's got Diana in her standard uniform.)
In the artificial time-stream, there may not be a Teen Titans.
By the way, nobody here has yet to raise a protest that in Lynda Carter's introduction to the book, she comments that Wonder Woman's outfit is a collection of useful tools in terms of "She knows how to accessorize." How appallng. (JMS uses the phrase, too. Or perhaps it's only appalling when he uses it.)
Lynda Carter's introduction to which book? I'd have to see it in context. Generally I love the way she sees (and represents) Wonder Woman based on the far-too-many interviews with her that I've read and seen; I really have a lot of trouble thinking she'd be dismissive or disrespectful.
OT, I am looking forward to seeing what Green Ronin's DC RPG will be like. The last DC RPG that came out in 2002 wasn't bad either.
Abbasax |
Lynda Carter's introduction to which book? I'd have to see it in context. Generally I love the way she sees (and represents) Wonder Woman based on the far-too-many interviews with her that I've read and seen; I really have a lot of trouble thinking she'd be dismissive or disrespectful.OT, I am looking forward to seeing what Green Ronin's DC RPG will be like. The last DC RPG that came out in 2002 wasn't bad either.
She wrote the introduction to Wonder Woman #600.
Yeah, I'm excited for the DC RPG also.
Chris Mortika RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16 |
Why is that appalling? It's not the phrasing I'd use, but I don't find it insulting in the least.
Well, you see, a number of folks, including some you know and respect, have put forth the claim that theywere bothered by JMS's interview, in particular when he said "What woman only wears only one outfit for 60-plus years?” and made comment about Wonder Woman knowing how to accessorize, in the context of designing the new costume and developing the current story-arc. The critics considered those comments snarky and disrespectful to the character.
Meanwhile, in the front of the book, Lynda Carter makes the same kind of statements in the context of her respect for the character, and gets a free pass.
Either the comments are sexist and paternalistic, or they're not. Or, they're sexist when they're JMS's, but not when they're Carter's.
The Jade |
Aaron Bitman wrote:Thank goodness no one can prove her invisible jet doesn't exist!Lord Fyre wrote:(This is almost as bad as when Sekowsky took away her powers in the early 1970s.)Yeah, that New York Times article quoted Michael Straczynski as saying "She’s been locked into pretty much the exact same outfit since her debut in 1941,” which is obviously false. She had a completely different look for 16 issues (issues 178 - 203).
Lord Fyre wrote:Human Bone shatters before any kind of imprint can be left in the skin.<slaps own face> What? You mean comics are unrealistic?
I used to sit in the cargo bay beneath the pilot seat, staring upward. It lowered my stress.
Abbasax |
Abbasax wrote:Why is that appalling? It's not the phrasing I'd use, but I don't find it insulting in the least.Well, you see, a number of folks, including some you know and respect, have put forth the claim that theywere bothered by JMS's interview, in particular when he said "What woman only wears only one outfit for 60-plus years?” and made comment about Wonder Woman knowing how to accessorize, in the context of designing the new costume and developing the current story-arc. The critics considered those comments snarky and disrespectful to the character.
Meanwhile, in the front of the book, Lynda Carter makes the same kind of statements in the context of her respect for the character, and gets a free pass.
Either the comments are sexist and paternalistic, or they're not. Or, they're sexist when they're JMS's, but not when they're Carter's.
Um. OK. I don't know who said his comments are snarky and disrespectful, but I think that would be an overreaction.