'Resilient Sphere' inside a belly of a beast


Rules Questions


What happens exactly if you cast `Resilient Sphere` after being swallowed whole (assuming you could get the cast off)?

I.e. swallowed whole by a Purple Worm.

I'm having problems with this phrase from the spell description, "the sphere cannot be physically moved either by people outside it or by the struggles of those within."

Resilient Sphere:

School evocation [force]; Level sorcerer/wizard 4

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components V, S, F (a crystal sphere)

Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)

Effect 1-ft.-diameter/level sphere, centered around a creature

Duration 1 min./level (D)

Saving Throw Reflex negates; Spell Resistance yes

A globe of shimmering force encloses a creature, provided the creature is small enough to fit within the diameter of the sphere. The sphere contains its subject for the spell's duration. The sphere functions as a wall of force, except that it can be negated by dispel magic. A subject inside the sphere can breathe normally. The sphere cannot be physically moved either by people outside it or by the struggles of those within.

Liberty's Edge

This EXACT thing happened to me on my first character.

I was being grappled (in his mouth) by a red dragon. I just happened to have a Bead of Force. I threw it down his throat, it's damage effect went off that resolved, and then the sphere appeared.

We ruled (rightfully so I think) that it would function like the Enlarge spell, where the sphere would grow to the maximum allowable size without causing actual damage to it's environment. We said that was something like 5 ft square for the stomach of a colossal dragon.
He was pinned in place. He couldn't move, as the sphere is immovable and we wrapped it up by shooting him to until he stopped fighting his sad fate.


I would just not allow the sphere to form if there was no space to form it to begin with, it either fits or it doesn't. alterantively you can allow the creature a reflex save to see if it forms if it possibly could fit and judge it from there.


The spell-description for the Resilient Sphere states: 'The sphere functions as a wall of force, ..'.

Now lets take a look at the Wall of Force, 3th paragraph : '... The wall must be continuous and unbroken when formed. If its surface is broken by any object or creature, the spell fails.

The open space in the dragon's stomach is probably a lot less than the 1-ft.-diameter/level the Resilient Sphere needs (=minimum 7ft diameter), in fact, it probably is closer to 0ft diameter, considering the elasticity of dragon stomach-tissue. Thus, the Sphere cannot form inside the dragon.

An Immovable Rod on the other hand..


Bog wrote:
An Immovable Rod on the other hand..

CLANG!


Bog wrote:

The spell-description for the Resilient Sphere states: 'The sphere functions as a wall of force, ..'.

Now lets take a look at the Wall of Force, 3th paragraph : '... The wall must be continuous and unbroken when formed. If its surface is broken by any object or creature, the spell fails.

The open space in the dragon's stomach is probably a lot less than the 1-ft.-diameter/level the Resilient Sphere needs (=minimum 7ft diameter), in fact, it probably is closer to 0ft diameter, considering the elasticity of dragon stomach-tissue. Thus, the Sphere cannot form inside the dragon.

Are you saying a huge to gargantuan creature does not have a proportionally sized stomach except when needed?


@Cartigan,

yes I do. How the Wall of Force/Resilient Sphere is worded, you would need a spherical shaped surface which is a void (the inside and outside of this surface do, of course, not need to be voids). A stomach is not a balloon filled with air, and thus, this shaped void does not exist.

I could imagine this would work in something like the belly of an enormous whale, but when you are encased in what is essentially a narrow fitting sack, the Resilient Sphere simply doesn't work.

(Although the condition of the unbroken, continuous surface should probably be taken with a grain of salt, since the Resilient sphere would in normal -non digestive related- circumstances probably intersect with the floor (barring airborne targets), yet I'm sure every GM would agree this would be an actual intended and legal use of the spell..)

Liberty's Edge

Bog wrote:

(Although the condition of the unbroken, continuous surface should probably be taken with a grain of salt, since the Resilient sphere would in normal -non digestive related- circumstances probably intersect with the floor (barring airborne targets), yet I'm sure every GM would agree this would be an actual intended and legal use of the spell..)

Yay for parenthesis in parenthesis!


Themetricsystem wrote:
Bog wrote:

(Although the condition of the unbroken, continuous surface should probably be taken with a grain of salt, since the Resilient sphere would in normal -non digestive related- circumstances probably intersect with the floor (barring airborne targets), yet I'm sure every GM would agree this would be an actual intended and legal use of the spell..)

Yay for parenthesis in parenthesis!

Yo.


Bog wrote:
A stomach is not a balloon filled with air,

Which is actually what it is. Stomachs are hollow organs. It may be full of something other than air, but nothing solid. Otherwise all your fancy spells don't work underwater.

And a gargantuan creature, like a Purple Worm, can swallow whole a Cloud Giant. A level 20 Wizard should be able to cast resilient sphere in a Purple Worm. Of course Purple Worm anatomy and whether or not it has a stomach is another matter.


Themetricsystem wrote:

We ruled (rightfully so I think) that it would function like the Enlarge spell, where the sphere would grow to the maximum allowable size without causing actual damage to it's environment. We said that was something like 5 ft square for the stomach of a colossal dragon.

He was pinned in place. He couldn't move, as the sphere is immovable and we wrapped it up by shooting him to until he stopped fighting his sad fate.

On reading the question, this was my first reaction. It's wholly unsupported by the rules regarding walls of force and the like, but it intuitively makes sense to me, and strikes me an ingenuitive use of the spell/effect. The only change I might make would be to allow the dragon to continue to move about by ruling that the sphere's "frame of reference" was the Dragon's stomach, rather than the point in arbitrary space that the spell was cast at, and thus would be immobile within the stomach but would move with it as a unit. (This also makes intuitive sense to me and avoids what I consider to be an otherwise overpowered application of the spell.)

I have always interpreted the wording "the sphere functions as a Wall of Force" as an indication of the properties of the sphere once formed rather than an indication of any restrictions against the formation of the sphere. Also, in response to Bog's parenthetical remark, it's always been my interpretation that the sphere sort of 'pops' up around the creature, in normal circumstances, in a manner that precludes intersection with the ground. I take the text "centered around a creature" somewhat liberally to mean that the sphere encapsulates that creature away from all other creatures that may have been adjacent to it at a fixed point in space. I would rule that, if cast on a creature in the middle of a mob, rather than automatically failing (due to intersection issues) the sphere would enclose the targeted creature and move the other creatures away. The only cause for failure would be in the event of the inability to harmlessly displace adjacent creatures. As that applies to a swallowed caster, if the stomach was big enough for the caster, I'd say that there would be enough space for a sphere containing the caster, though the sphere might not be as large as the caster is entitled to by the definition of the spell. Also, the sphere might cause the creature who swallowed the caster varying degrees of discomfort, depending on the relative sizes.

~Doskious

Shadow Lodge

Bog wrote:
An Immovable Rod on the other hand..

The dragon swoops down and grabs Frimple the small in his mouth and starts to fly away when suddenly...

**** riiipppp!! *** Dragon intestines spell all over the battlefield.

Maybe coolest use of immovable rod yet.


Are we going to start putting weapon qualities on immovable rods?

Adamantine holy immovable rod with sharpened ends?

Shadow Lodge

Umbral Reaver wrote:

Are we going to start putting weapon qualities on immovable rods?

Adamantine holy immovable rod with sharpened ends?

I don't think DR works on the inside. Sharpened ends just mean there is a smaller hole coming out.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

I'd rule the resilient sphere would try to form *around* the creature (since that's what it says it does) and would fail to form because the creature is too big to be contained within it, as dictated by the spell.

A bead of force would explode for its normal force damage and then do the same.

Now, there is an interesting corner case if you tried to use it on another creature that was ALSO inside the big-swallowing-monster's gullet - then you might have an interesting argument.

Shadow Lodge

Jason Nelson wrote:

I'd rule the resilient sphere would try to form *around* the creature (since that's what it says it does) and would fail to form because the creature is too big to be contained within it, as dictated by the spell.

A bead of force would explode for its normal force damage and then do the same.

Now, there is an interesting corner case if you tried to use it on another creature that was ALSO inside the big-swallowing-monster's gullet - then you might have an interesting argument.

I think they were talking about using resilient sphere if you got swallowed which would be as you suggest.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

0gre wrote:
Jason Nelson wrote:

I'd rule the resilient sphere would try to form *around* the creature (since that's what it says it does) and would fail to form because the creature is too big to be contained within it, as dictated by the spell.

A bead of force would explode for its normal force damage and then do the same.

Now, there is an interesting corner case if you tried to use it on another creature that was ALSO inside the big-swallowing-monster's gullet - then you might have an interesting argument.

I think they were talking about using resilient sphere if you got swallowed which would be as you suggest.

Aha. That makes more sense then.

I suppose it does raise the same question really any time you're grappled (since being swallowed is really just a more extreme version of grappling) - can you cast RS on yourself to break the grapple?


Just as a side note, an Immovable Rod can only support up to 8,000 pounds before it fails (or "falls to the ground" as stated in the PRD). So it shouldn't keep a gargantuan dragon held in place.

Also, anyone can make a DC 30 Strength check to move it 10' in a round.

They aren't artifacts, y'know. *grin*

Shadow Lodge

Dosgamer wrote:

Just as a side note, an Immovable Rod can only support up to 8,000 pounds before it fails (or "falls to the ground" as stated in the PRD). So it shouldn't keep a gargantuan dragon held in place.

Also, anyone can make a DC 30 Strength check to move it 10' in a round.

They aren't artifacts, y'know. *grin*

Well that's all fine, but doesn't really speak to what happens if something small comes to a dead stop inside a dragons innards. It probably wouldn't rip it open completely but I suspect it would HURT.

Sovereign Court

Jason Nelson wrote:
- can you cast RS on yourself to break the grapple?

Man, it always blows my mind to see these sorts of arguments on a forum.

To me, it seems obvious that casting Resilient Sphere on oneself after being swallowed whole is a good method of survival, assuming you have enough air and can sustain the spell for the duration of the digestive process.

It seems equally obvious that casting Resilient Sphere while grappled just means that now you and the grappler are trapped together inside a sphere of force.

I'm just a simple man who takes the simple solution. :)

Shadow Lodge

cappadocius wrote:
Jason Nelson wrote:
- can you cast RS on yourself to break the grapple?

Man, it always blows my mind to see these sorts of arguments on a forum.

To me, it seems obvious that casting Resilient Sphere on oneself after being swallowed whole is a good method of survival, assuming you have enough air and can sustain the spell for the duration of the digestive process.

It seems equally obvious that casting Resilient Sphere while grappled just means that now you and the grappler are trapped together inside a sphere of force.

I'm just a simple man who takes the simple solution. :)

The only tricky bit is the fact that RS is immobile which would pretty much pin whatever creature swallowed you in place.

Personally, any one of the two solutions works depending on how generous the GM feels, pinning him, or having the sphere move with it's 'frame of reference' aka the inside of the belly.

Edit: I lean towards having the sphere move because swallow whole is generally an entirely horrible attack for creatures in general.

Sovereign Court

0gre wrote:


The only tricky bit is the fact that RS is immobile

I always assumed that a resilient sphere is immobile for the same reason a parking meter or tree is immobile - the perfectly spherical ball of unbreakable force has some amount of itself embedded in the ground. Otherwise, the ball would, you know, roll around like balls tend to. Without being rooted, a parking meter, tree, or resilient sphere is free to be moved along by currents in the ocean or peristalsis in a dragon.


If one is falling from a great height and casts Resiliant Sphere, do they stop falling? Provided the world is not geocentric, do they move off into space as the planet moves away from them? Or the sun? Or the galaxy?

I think frame of refrence is the best way to treat the "immobile" ability of Resiliant Sphere.


Mirror, Mirror wrote:

If one is falling from a great height and casts Resiliant Sphere, do they stop falling? Provided the world is not geocentric, do they move off into space as the planet moves away from them? Or the sun? Or the galaxy?

I think frame of refrence is the best way to treat the "immobile" ability of Resiliant Sphere.

(Or, continuing your hyperbole, what if you happen to be on the wrong side of the planet and it crashes into the immobile sphere as it rushes along its orbit?)

This is exactly the reason I had for suggesting a frame of reference the way I did, since it makes exceptionally good sense.

Scarab Sages Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games

cappadocius wrote:
Jason Nelson wrote:
- can you cast RS on yourself to break the grapple?

Man, it always blows my mind to see these sorts of arguments on a forum.

To me, it seems obvious that casting Resilient Sphere on oneself after being swallowed whole is a good method of survival, assuming you have enough air and can sustain the spell for the duration of the digestive process.

It seems equally obvious that casting Resilient Sphere while grappled just means that now you and the grappler are trapped together inside a sphere of force.

I'm just a simple man who takes the simple solution. :)

That's just it; it's not as simple as that, because when you are swallowed whole you are still grappled. Check the Bestiary description of swallow whole - "The swallowed creature retains the grappled condition, the swallower does not."

1. Hugged by an owlbear = grappled.
2. Swallowed by a purple worm = grappled.

So, if you cast RS in grapple #1, it forms outside both of you and traps you both inside without breaking the grapple.

But, if you cast RS in grapple #2, it separates the two of you and breaks the grapple?

It's also complicated by the fact that the spell states it encloses a creature, which would argue on the side of it being a grapple-breaker if cast on either you (as you waive the saving throw) or the monster, because only one creature is enclosed by it (of course, they get a save). Then again, if a monster had already swallowed someone, I would think you could enclose the monster (and the creature inside it) with the spell... wouldn't that be an unfortunate surprise if the trapped creature cut its way out of the stomach to find itself trapped inside an RS with the swallow-monster! :)

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / 'Resilient Sphere' inside a belly of a beast All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.