Down with Gish threads... long live the Magus!


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

401 to 450 of 526 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | next > last >>

Benn Roe wrote:


You know what else would set it apart from the bard? (:

Not having any of the bards ability :) Guys just because it has the same BAB, HD and spell progression does not make it like a bard any more then a paladin and ranger are just alike....they should be huh same BAB,HD and spell progression so it seems like they are the same class right? How can we ever tell em apart with all the same BAB,HD and spell progression?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Moro wrote:


I would love to see the Magus end up as an Int-based prepared caster and be something of a cerebral fighter/battlefield tactician. With class abilities that synergize well with the Combat Feats that have Intelligence prerequisites.
This is a really good ideal. I could get behind that honestly

+1, a tactical class could be interesting. I could see a average Cha one looking over the battle, looking for an opening, or a high cha one rallying a bunch of adepts for combat.


Benn Roe wrote:
Torinath wrote:
I agree I would prefer prepared spells for the Magus. It would set it apart from the bard. It should have a wider selection of spells but fewer castings much like a wizard compared to a Sorcerer.
You know what else would set it apart from the bard? (:

Full BAB, d12 HD, Full Wizard casting, two domains, an Animal Companion and an Heirloom +5 Vorpal Sword of Munchkin-power that could turn Mr. Fishy into Sushi?

Mmmmm, sushi.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Torinath wrote:

Full BAB, d12 HD, Full Wizard casting, two domains, an Animal Companion and an Heirloom +5 Vorpal Sword of Munchkin-power that could turn Mr. Fishy into Sushi?

*issues C&D order* I've already made the d12 HD/full casting/etc. joke earlier in the thread. It's copyrighted.


Torinath, let it go. We all know Paladin and ranger are just a like no one can tell em apart. Same goes for Bard, alchemist and Inquisitor all just alike. Wizard/witch yep just alike as well.....damned HD/BAB spell progression link makes all them classes just alike.


I'm a paladin now? When did that happen?!

Scarab Sages

Falandar Thornarrow wrote:
I'm a paladin now? When did that happen?!

At least you HAVE a class...


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Torinath, let it go. We all know Paladin and ranger are just a like no one can tell em apart. Same goes for Bard, alchemist and Inquisitor all just alike. Wizard/witch yep just alike as well.....damned HD/BAB spell progression link makes all them classes just alike.

I am only being sarcastic... and trying to lure a fish.

"C'mon get in the boat, Fish. C'mon get in the boat, Fish fish!"

I would prefer it to look more like a Wizard-based oracle(i.e. a loose base but multiple different lines to better define the character). As far as tactical feats you can look to the abilities of an Oracle of Battle.

Dark Archive

Whereas I appreciate all the light-hearted retorts, my point was that we were already told, just about every time somebody asked for an arcane warrior class, that we had the bard and that after the APG the bard would have way better combat-oriented spells, so it should do the trick. For Paizo to have changed their minds and decided to make the base class of our dreams, only to start with exactly the frame people had already told them didn't work for the concept, I must admit I'm disappointed.

I obviously don't for a second believe that the same spell progression and BAB progression means it's a forgone conclusion that it'll end up being the same class. I just don't think it'll end up being the class that the hardcore fans of the archetype have been asking for.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I just disagree for my own amusement. :D


Well I am glad that an Int based prepared caster has so much support! :-)

How about this for a spell progression?
*
*

xx 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
01 3 1
02 3 2
03 4 2 1
04 4 3 1
05 4 3 2
06 4 4 2 1
07 4 4 3 1
08 4 4 3 2
09 4 4 4 2 1
10 4 4 4 3 1
11 4 4 4 3 2
12 4 4 4 4 2 1
13 4 4 4 4 3 1
14 4 4 4 4 3 2
15 4 4 4 4 4 2 1
16 4 4 4 4 4 3 1
17 4 4 4 4 4 3 2
18 4 4 4 4 4 4 2
19 4 4 4 4 4 4 3
20 4 4 4 4 4 4 4

You will note that this progress has less casting than the bard, but gets higher level spells 1 level earlier.

Edit: I came up with this by looking at the Sorcerer vs. the Bard and then comparing a Specialized Wizard vs. this progression. So to be fair this build should have two "prohibited" schools. There would be no such thing as a "Universalist" Magus.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Benn Roe wrote:


You know what else would set it apart from the bard? (:

Not having any of the bards ability :) Guys just because it has the same BAB, HD and spell progression does not make it like a bard any more then a paladin and ranger are just alike....they should be huh same BAB,HD and spell progression so it seems like they are the same class right? How can we ever tell em apart with all the same BAB,HD and spell progression?

As I said, I'm done here, so I'm not going to address the actual main issue under discussion here. I just wanted to mention something related to paladins and rangers. I always recommend to players that wish to play a paladin but are playing with a GM they are unsure they can trust, that they instead play a ranger and role-play it as a paladin. In that case, I view a class's fluff as very mutable.

Anyway, just a thought I had, get back to the magus.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

pres man wrote:

As I said, I'm done here, so I'm not going to address the actual main issue under discussion here. I just wanted to mention something related to paladins and rangers. I always recommend to players that wish to play a paladin but are playing with a GM they are unsure they can trust, that they instead play a ranger and role-play it as a paladin. In that case, I view a class's fluff as very mutable.

Anyway, just a thought I had, get back to the magus.

bonus points if the Ranger has a Stetson of Invulnerability and a wolf/dog mix.

Scarab Sages

I like the tactician type character, maybe give it a variant of the inquisitors ability where int mod/day he can allow an ally to benifit from a teamwork/tactical feat they possess. Guiding his friends to victory.


scotchrocket wrote:

I like the tactician type character, maybe give it a variant of the inquisitors ability where int mod/day he can allow an ally to benifit from a teamwork/tactical feat they possess. Guiding his friends to victory.

That could be workable or maybe some type of arcane based feats and allow him to share such as using his swift action could grant all his allies in 30' arcane strike or something. Or humm what about a limited share spell ability? That grants his personal spell to a number of allies equal to his Int mod a few times a day?....That could however get out of hand...Group enlarge heh, so maybe on 2nd thought limit it to one other person.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I think the Magus might end up looking a lot like Gandalf.

A dude in a robe with a stick that can tank up and take on a Balor.

Instead of using metal clothes and metal weapons, he'll rely on arcane might to protect him and strike down his foes in melee.

That said, I'm thinking it might be an Int-based character with an innate "Mage Armor" ability that adds Int to AC, +1 per 4 levels, probably +3/4 BAB, Good Will Saves, 1d8 HD, 2 to 4 Skill points per level, probably 6th level as max level spells, with a tight spell list focusing on buffs, de-buffs, battlefield control, and single-target or extremely close ranged multiple targeting damaging spells.

It will probably have a host special class abilities, probably of the spell-like or supernatural ability type, to allow him to be a front-line melee specialist.

Possibly a way to gain temporary hit points a few times per day, swift cast spells w/o spell slot level increases, channel spell ability, and a way to overcome SR and increase the Save DC (or lower the Save Bonuses) of opponents hit in melee. Maybe a way to boost CMB and CMD through arcane might, a way to resolve attacks as touch attacks (to counter the lower BAB), and a way to act as a bastion that mooks can't ignore to get to the backline guys.


sadly I think he will have 2+int skill per level. I hate that so much but it'll be houseruled like I always do. The Mage armor isn't a bad ideal, but I think he will have armor as many people want an armored arcane caster.

The Exchange

Just chiming in to give a +1 to those suggesting the following:

3/4 BAB
d8 HD
Bard spell progression

I think it would be cool to present different schools of Magi, many of which could be parallel to Wizard schools. The schools should present abilities like those granted by the Wizard specialization, but obviously with a more fight-ey bent to them.

Abjuration - Very defensive spell list
Conjuration - Augments his own abilities with summoned weapons, and fights alongside creatures he summons
Divination - Able to preempt enemy tactics, gains incredibly fast reflexes, et cetera
Enchantment - Sews confusion in the enemy ranks, turning them against one another
Evocation - Channels destructive magic through weapons and able to put close range AoE blasts to good use
Illusion - Fights using trickery, false images, invisibility, and distractions
Necromancy - Drains the enemies' strength and uses their life force to command undead warriors
Transmutation - Bolsters his natural fighting talent and his equipment with magically enhanced abilities

As far as spell selection, I am firmly in favor of heavily restricting their spell selection. Maybe divide the class spell list into schools and only allow access to one school, with all others being treated as restricted?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

w0nkothesane wrote:

Just chiming in to give a +1 to those suggesting the following:

3/4 BAB
d8 HD
Bard spell progression

I think it would be cool to present different schools of Magi, many of which could be parallel to Wizard schools. The schools should present abilities like those granted by the Wizard specialization, but obviously with a more fight-ey bent to them.

Abjuration - Very defensive spell list
Conjuration - Augments his own abilities with summoned weapons, and fights alongside creatures he summons
Divination - Able to preempt enemy tactics, gains incredibly fast reflexes, et cetera
Enchantment - Sews confusion in the enemy ranks, turning them against one another
Evocation - Channels destructive magic through weapons and able to put close range AoE blasts to good use
Illusion - Fights using trickery, false images, invisibility, and distractions
Necromancy - Drains the enemies' strength and uses their life force to command undead warriors
Transmutation - Bolsters his natural fighting talent and his equipment with magically enhanced abilities

As far as spell selection, I am firmly in favor of heavily restricting their spell selection. Maybe divide the class spell list into schools and only allow access to one school, with all others being treated as restricted?

Access to one school is EXTREMELY limiting, but 3 might be the right amount. It gives you a Plan A, a Plan B, and a fall back position when it's time to ignore the Plans!


I don't like spells by school but what if ya went with a school based power? Like domains or wizard schools? And maybe not limited by school but style?

Like protection{armor?} or Combat or Control? Giving you three branches to select and could give you powers of modifiers based on that?

Lantern Lodge

Here's a random tangent: If the Magus can Imbue, why not etch runes, or require an Arcane Mark? It would be a neat thing to have his Arcane Mark on the weapons or armor that he(she?) uses.

Speaking of gender, what's the male:female ration on iconics so far? If the EK was a guy, will this make the Magus a girl?


Me'mori wrote:

Here's a random tangent: If the Magus can Imbue, why not etch runes, or require an Arcane Mark? It would be a neat thing to have his Arcane Mark on the weapons or armor that he(she?) uses.

Speaking of gender, what's the male:female ration on iconics so far? If the EK was a guy, will this make the Magus a girl?

I think the arcane mark bit would be an interesting bit of flavor.

As to your other question, I can't speak for the APG classes since I haven't picked up the module, but it's a 1:1 ratio. However, both the cleric and druid iconics are female, so the Magus could still go either way.

Scarab Sages

What about instead of schools ala the wizard, you use "theories" or "tactics" similar to domains, having a very limted general spell list and bonus spells flavored to your style, asscoiated powers. Start with 2 - plan A & plan B then maybe gain an extra at 6th, 12th, and 18th

Scarab Sages

I also support the arcane mark idea


scotchrocket wrote:
What about instead of schools ala the wizard, you use "theories" or "tactics" similar to domains, having a very limted general spell list and bonus spells flavored to your style, asscoiated powers. Start with 2 - plan A & plan B then maybe gain an extra at 6th, 12th, and 18th

I like that


Lord Twig wrote:

Well I am glad that an Int based prepared caster has so much support! :-)

How about this for a spell progression?

Not bad.....but why not retain the normal progression of 1,2,2,3,3,3,4...

At 20th level, that drops you to a max of three + Int mod 6th level spells....
but I'm not sure that's a problem.....provided the other abilities are sound.


scotchrocket wrote:
What about instead of schools ala the wizard, you use "theories" or "tactics" similar to domains, having a very limited general spell list and bonus spells flavored to your style, associated powers. Start with 2 - plan A & plan B then maybe gain an extra at 6th, 12th, and 18th

"Theories" I can support, or orders, or different classes of magi (I suggested Blood Magi, Zephyr Magi, and Stone Magi earlier in the thread) with each focused on a different flavor of hybrid.

I am not a big fan of the tactical class idea, and I see battle field control spells as the domain of wizards and druids. The magus will never be able to compete with either of those classes. I think making a wizard/fighter/EK and role playing him like a tactician is a really cool idea. That character could have the battle field control, martial abilities, and be able to coordinate well with meleeists and arcane casters.

The fighter/mage that I am looking to see is one that is in the thick of the battle right next to the fighter, barbarian, and paladin.

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

I am not sure I want to see a spellstrike like ablity, what I would like to see is something that allows them to do some kind of energy based damage with a weapon a few times a day. It could be something that scales like the alchemists bombs or maybe something more like smite but I would like to see some kind of ability of that nature

Something that can not be duplicated by going EK. I also would like to see light armor casting like the bard and at lest going to medium with level. I do not think they need heavy but light and medium would be nice.

Other then that I am not sure right now.

I liked the imbue weapon ability that has been described as a viable option to enhance damage. I am just curious why you are opposed to spell channeling, and if you would give the class some ability, in addition to combat casting, to cast effectively in a melee.

Scarab Sages

I don't see the Magus as a battlefield controler but more of a combat tactician, ala' captian america or even the marshall and warlord classes. Who, while wading into the battle, can co-ordinate his teammates to their upmost potential.

I would love to see the Magus gain bonus teamwork feats and be able to impart those abilities to his allies. Maybe even an ability to somehow grant allies extra benifits or uses to their class abilities. maybe burn a spell to give a bonus to a class ability equal to the spell level or an additional number of uses of an ability equal to one half the spell level...

Just throwing some ideas out there...

Lantern Lodge

scotchrocket wrote:
Who, while wading into the battle, can co-ordinate his teammates to their upmost potential.

I'd say some of that hinges on whether or not there are more teamwork feats in the APG that weren't listed with the Inquisitor.. I seem to recall there being some mention of them being something, but not anything to particularly write home about.

scotchrocket wrote:


I would love to see the Magus gain bonus teamwork feats and be able to impart those abilities to his allies. Maybe even an ability to somehow grant allies extra benifits or uses to their class abilities. maybe burn a spell to give a bonus to a class ability equal to the spell level or an additional number of uses of an ability equal to one half the spell level...

Just throwing some ideas out there...

That sounds like one of the Nightsong classes... I'm not sure that "assisting" is something in the core of what a Magus would be.. I'd expect to see something like that from a Bard/Inquisitor/Rogue variant. *shrug* Not saying it couldn't work, but it doesn't fit with the concept that is being molded into shape..


scotchrocket wrote:

I don't see the Magus as a battlefield controler but more of a combat tactician, ala' captian america or even the marshall and warlord classes. Who, while wading into the battle, can co-ordinate his teammates to their upmost potential.

I would love to see the Magus gain bonus teamwork feats and be able to impart those abilities to his allies. Maybe even an ability to somehow grant allies extra benifits or uses to their class abilities. maybe burn a spell to give a bonus to a class ability equal to the spell level or an additional number of uses of an ability equal to one half the spell level...

Just throwing some ideas out there...

I think these sound like really cool abilities, but I think they would be more appropriate on the battle bard variant in the APG. I guess I think of the fighter/mage hybrid as a direct damage class and the bard as a buffer class.


AlQahir wrote:
scotchrocket wrote:

I don't see the Magus as a battlefield controler but more of a combat tactician, ala' captian america or even the marshall and warlord classes. Who, while wading into the battle, can co-ordinate his teammates to their upmost potential.

I would love to see the Magus gain bonus teamwork feats and be able to impart those abilities to his allies. Maybe even an ability to somehow grant allies extra benifits or uses to their class abilities. maybe burn a spell to give a bonus to a class ability equal to the spell level or an additional number of uses of an ability equal to one half the spell level...

Just throwing some ideas out there...

I think these sound like really cool abilities, but I think they would be more appropriate on the battle bard variant in the APG. I guess I think of the fighter/mage hybrid as a direct damage class and the bard as a buffer class.

I have to agree. While I love the idea of a new Martial class, I would not want the Magus to be it. Both the Cavalier and Bard fit that role pretty well already, and I want this guy to stand on his own, and not need friends. That is what will set him appart from the Bard flavor wise, I feel.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Caineach wrote:


I have to agree. While I love the idea of a new Martial class, I would not want the Magus to be it. Both the Cavalier and Bard fit that role pretty well already, and I want this guy to stand on his own, and not need friends. That is what will set him appart from the Bard flavor wise, I feel.

You're playing the wrong game then. D+D is based on the party paradigm, which means no class gets to be an island. While solo campaigns can and have been done, it's something a DM has to tailor for the specific character no matter what the class.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

LazarX wrote:
Caineach wrote:


I have to agree. While I love the idea of a new Martial class, I would not want the Magus to be it. Both the Cavalier and Bard fit that role pretty well already, and I want this guy to stand on his own, and not need friends. That is what will set him appart from the Bard flavor wise, I feel.

You're playing the wrong game then. D+D is based on the party paradigm, which means no class gets to be an island. While solo campaigns can and have been done, it's something a DM has to tailor for the specific character no matter what the class.

Well, it would be ok for a '5th wheel' character. Look at the psychic warrior's powerset.

Spoiler:

  • bring your own weapon - hammer, claws, bite, disolving touch, etc.

  • bring your own healing - body adjustment vigor to a lesser extent, empathic transfer, hostile.

  • bring your own blasting - Expanded knowlege feat, breath of the black dragon.

  • bring your own buffs - Mind blank, personal, Animal Affinity, thought shield.

    The psychic warrior can do it all... but not all at once, and not all the time. What the psychic warrior brings to the team dynamic is the ability to lessen the burden of the other classes. with 20 powers known, he's going to need to decide where best to mesh as he goes up levels.

  • Warrior - Vigour allows him to keep up in the take damage department, powers like the various precognitions help keep his total attack modifiers up.

  • Skillmonkey - well not here so much.

  • Arcanist - A couple of powers, serve as the blaster, and expanded knowlege can help patch resources. Also as a self buffer, that's one less spell the arcanist needs to provide.

  • Healer - Self healing is our friend. Also one of the only other classes that can repair ability damage, even if only on himself.
  • A flexible enough magus might work similarly. Able to 'do it all' but not able to do it all at once.


    LazarX wrote:
    Caineach wrote:


    I have to agree. While I love the idea of a new Martial class, I would not want the Magus to be it. Both the Cavalier and Bard fit that role pretty well already, and I want this guy to stand on his own, and not need friends. That is what will set him appart from the Bard flavor wise, I feel.

    You're playing the wrong game then. D+D is based on the party paradigm, which means no class gets to be an island. While solo campaigns can and have been done, it's something a DM has to tailor for the specific character no matter what the class.

    You mis-understand me. Fighter stands on his own. Paladin stands on his own. A Wizard, Sorc, Cleric, Druid, and Alchemist all stand on their own. A Bard's power comes from boosting allies though. A cavalier gets a lot of power from allies arround him with his teamwork feats and banner. A rogue needs a buddy to flank, and the inquisitor has teamwork feats he needs a buddy for. I do not want this character to be about boosting his allies to make them more powerful, and I don't want him to need a buddy. We already have the bard for as a 2/3 caster, 3/4 BAB class that does does that, especially once the alternate bard spell lists come out.

    Scarab Sages

    Good points all, I don't want the Magus tobe completely dependent on others (have allabilities tied to allies) but would like to see a few be. Kinda like the reverse of the Inquisitor, who can easily stand on his own, but can use his allies to benefit him. I would like to see himstand on his own but be able to up the efectiveness of others. maybe that should be a battle bard. ah well, given Paizo's record in class generation, I'm sure I'll be pleased with the outcome. to date they haven't let me down.

    Silver Crusade Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

    I apologize if this has already been said somewhere in the hundreds of posts but...
    Someone needs to tell me why a 20th level character with 6th level arcane spells and a +15 BAB beats the following:
    Wizard 8/Fighter 2/Eldritch Knight 10.
    +16 BAB, 9th level spells if wizard is the arcane class. You also have 7 bonus feats, two tiers of specialist powers as a wizard, bravery and spell critical by 16th level.
    Why would you play the magus?
    It seems to me that this combo already gives people the majority of what they're asking for, more so than what we know now of the magus.
    Additionally, we don't know everything there is to know about the APG at this point. There are over 100 feats and archetypes that'll be available and there's nothing saying that weapon channeling, armored casting or any of the tra"gish"ional wish list items won't be doable through this upcoming material.
    Again, I love the idea of the magus, and I want to see it succeed, but someone needs to tell me what we know at present that makes it a more powerful or viable option than what is already available in the system.
    -QGJ

    RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

    scotchrocket wrote:
    Good points all, I don't want the Magus tobe completely dependent on others (have allabilities tied to allies) but would like to see a few be. Kinda like the reverse of the Inquisitor, who can easily stand on his own, but can use his allies to benefit him. I would like to see himstand on his own but be able to up the efectiveness of others. maybe that should be a battle bard. ah well, given Paizo's record in class generation, I'm sure I'll be pleased with the outcome. to date they haven't let me down.

    I think the magus should be as self sufficient as the barbarian, fighter, monk, paladin, or ranger. Just self-sufficiency through arcane kickassitude instead of rage, feats galore, ki, holy power, or wild canniness.


    Qui-gon Jesse wrote:

    I apologize if this has already been said somewhere in the hundreds of posts but...

    Someone needs to tell me why a 20th level character with 6th level arcane spells and a +15 BAB beats the following:
    Wizard 8/Fighter 2/Eldritch Knight 10.
    +16 BAB, 9th level spells if wizard is the arcane class. You also have 7 bonus feats, two tiers of specialist powers as a wizard, bravery and spell critical by 16th level.
    Why would you play the magus?
    It seems to me that this combo already gives people the majority of what they're asking for, more so than what we know now of the magus.
    Additionally, we don't know everything there is to know about the APG at this point. There are over 100 feats and archetypes that'll be available and there's nothing saying that weapon channeling, armored casting or any of the tra"gish"ional wish list items won't be doable through this upcoming material.
    Again, I love the idea of the magus, and I want to see it succeed, but someone needs to tell me what we know at present that makes it a more powerful or viable option than what is already available in the system.
    -QGJ

    I think the biggest kicker is the 1st level dilemna. Do you take fighter or wizard at first level, after that point, yes your build is probably going to be fine for the most part. This issue could probably have been avoided if there were some apprentice level rules like in 3rd edition (not 3.5 though sadly). Basically, you could take 1/2 a level in two classes at 1st level. And at 2nd you gain the benefits of both as full classes. It allowed multiclass at 1st level and would have probably solved the 1st level diemna for the gi... magus build.


    Qui-gon Jesse wrote:

    I apologize if this has already been said somewhere in the hundreds of posts but...

    Someone needs to tell me why a 20th level character with 6th level arcane spells and a +15 BAB beats the following:
    Wizard 8/Fighter 2/Eldritch Knight 10.
    +16 BAB, 9th level spells if wizard is the arcane class. You also have 7 bonus feats, two tiers of specialist powers as a wizard, bravery and spell critical by 16th level.
    Why would you play the magus?
    It seems to me that this combo already gives people the majority of what they're asking for, more so than what we know now of the magus.
    Additionally, we don't know everything there is to know about the APG at this point. There are over 100 feats and archetypes that'll be available and there's nothing saying that weapon channeling, armored casting or any of the tra"gish"ional wish list items won't be doable through this upcoming material.
    Again, I love the idea of the magus, and I want to see it succeed, but someone needs to tell me what we know at present that makes it a more powerful or viable option than what is already available in the system.
    -QGJ

    That build takes about 8 levels before he becomes survivable on the front line. Since that is 2/3 of the typical campaign, that is an issue.

    Second, the feel is not right. The build gets no abilities that actually get it to combine casting and combat, so it does one and then proceeds to do the other. There is no flow between its styles. You can argue that its capstone does this, but most people wont see the capstone and because it needs a swift action it does not work with arcane strike, which is generally a better option than hoping for a crit.

    At this time, all we know is that Paizo is currently planning on releasing a full base class that will combine martial and magical flavors. There are many ways to do this that are not the EK but are ballanced against it. Currently, the discussion is what abilities people would like to see in that class. Hopefully, Paizo staff is watching and gets inspired by our ideas to give us something. If nothing else, it gives them a better idea of what people want, which is all over the map.

    Shadow Lodge

    I'm not sure about all the tactics and stuff. A classic gish was a fighter/ magic user. He fought with a sword and memorized spells like a wizard. My feeling is his special abilities should lean towards making him better at casting in melee. Perhaps options to avoid attacks of opportunity when casting, the ability to cast and fight in the same round, and the ability to do some sort of arcane strike.

    The Duskblade concept is more oriented towards just kicking butt. He's going to have a lot of mobility and defensive spells and the ability to boost his attacks with magic. He will likely know a good number of dirty tricks he can use in combat.

    Being a tactician doesn't really fit into either of these concepts.

    Silver Crusade Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

    Caineach wrote:
    That build takes about 8 levels before he becomes survivable on the front line. Since that is 2/3 of the typical campaign, that is an issue.

    Caineach,

    first thanks for weighing in, I appreciate your thoughts.
    I'm not trying to be argumentative but, what does "survivable on the front line" mean? It seems like that's the GM's decision/responsibility to make adventures that are correctly proportioned to the players, and I really am against the notion of a "typical campaign" since I've never had a typical experience that was duplicated from one campaign to the next. That said, however, the question of the hardiness of the build is fair. But, just on the math alone, the magus will have, on average, only 1 extra hp per level than a wizard or sorcerer, so that means that they're only barely more "survivable" than the wizard or sorcerer. Plus, if a character using the EK build above were to front end load the two levels of fighter, those d10 average h.p. make up the difference between the d6 vs d8 for the remaining levels of magus, and when the EK takes over, the h.p. quickly exceeds that proposed for the magus.

    I've always been told that the most powerful class feature to have in a given level was a full caster level. While the EK build I proposed certainly has drawbacks, I feel like it still ends up with more spells and a higher BAB than what is proposed for the Magus.

    My worry is that the magus becomes something that people play for the class features, and not because it accomplishes the stated objective of a viable synthesis of magic and combat.
    If that's the case, then maybe the magus concept works better as an archetype of wizard or sorcerer or even as a collection of feats.
    That was the rationale I heard Jason Buhlman give at Paizocon for not bringing the archmage over from 3.5 D&D: the same powers of the prestige class could be garnered from the feats and archetypes in the APG.

    I think the real question may become: Is there a way to make a +1/level BAB and +1/lvl caster base class that will still leave room for people to want to play fighters, wizards, sorcerers and Eldritch Knights, respectively?

    I think it can be done, but I don't think the current specs for the magus are going to do it.


    Qui-gon Jesse wrote:
    think the real question may become: Is there a way to make a +1/level BAB and +1/lvl caster base class that will still leave room for people to want to play fighters, wizards, sorcerers and Eldritch Knights, respectively?

    I think this can be done. I think this can be done effectively. I don't want to see it done. In order to do this, you need to do 2 things:

    First, you must water down the spell list. Not just a little bit. ALOT. To the point where the spells that he gets satisfy almost no one.

    Second, he can't have any real class abilities. Full BAB and caster levels are pretty much all he gets, otherwise he easily outstrips the EK and other martial classes.

    If they did these 2 things, the result would be a ballanced class that does not replace the others. It would also be a class that holds no interest for me at all. That is why I would like to see a 2/3 caster, 3/4 BAB class that merges the styles with class abilities. I think the fact that they are already planning this class shows that they do not accomplish it with feats and alternate class abilities in the APG.

    Lantern Lodge

    Since we're trying to develop a theory along a new path, for comparison's sake we're looking for something with the flavor of 3.5 era's Duskblade, Spellsword, or Bladesinger, right?


    Just wondering if there was much consensus on how the Magus should operate.

    For example do we see the Magus fighting in a particular style

    Buff & Go
    rnd 1: spell
    rnd 2: spell
    rnd 3: melee
    rnd 4: melee and subsequent rnds
    OR
    Opportunity Strikes
    rnd 1: melee
    rnd 2: spell
    rnd 3: melee
    rnd 4: spell
    OR
    Arcance Combo
    rnd 1: melee/spell
    rnd 2: melee/spell
    rnd 3: melee/spell
    rnd 4: melee/spell

    I think a lot of people a leaning towards the latter. But each requires different ability sets.


    Torinath wrote:


    Full BAB, d12 HD, Full Wizard casting, two domains, an Animal Companion and an Heirloom +5 Vorpal Sword of Munchkin-power that could turn Mr. Fishy into Sushi?

    Mr. Fishy is immune to Munchkin power thank you very much.


    Krak de Chevalier wrote:

    Just wondering if there was much consensus on how the Magus should operate.

    For example do we see the Magus fighting in a particular style

    Buff & Go
    rnd 1: spell
    rnd 2: spell
    rnd 3: melee
    rnd 4: melee and subsequent rnds
    OR
    Opportunity Strikes
    rnd 1: melee
    rnd 2: spell
    rnd 3: melee
    rnd 4: spell
    OR
    Arcance Combo
    rnd 1: melee/spell
    rnd 2: melee/spell
    rnd 3: melee/spell
    rnd 4: melee/spell

    I think a lot of people a leaning towards the latter. But each requires different ability sets.

    Personally, I would prefer the arcane combo, but limmitted in some way like times per day to not get ubsurd

    Scarab Sages

    What about class features akin to 3.5 reserve feats? The Magus could get them every 2 or 3 levels and choose them like a rogue does...

    For instance if they have a evocation spell memorized of 2nd level or higher they can add x to their damage, divination to add x to initiative, a teleportation spell to be considered flanking from an adjecant square, abguration to add x to ac, polymorph to gain reach, etc.

    What do you guys think???


    scotchrocket wrote:

    What about class features akin to 3.5 reserve feats? The Magus could get them every 2 or 3 levels and choose them like a rogue does...

    For instance if they have a evocation spell memorized of 2nd level or higher they can add x to their damage, divination to add x to initiative, a teleportation spell to be considered flanking from an adjecant square, abguration to add x to ac, polymorph to gain reach, etc.

    What do you guys think???

    That sounds pretty cool. Would you have to burn the spells to get these abilities? If not there would be no incentive to actually cast spells.

    Caineach wrote:


    Personally, I would prefer the arcane combo, but limmitted in some way like times per day to not get ubsurd

    I agree! Additionally, I'd like to see some sort of quick-buff ability. I would like the magus to use both armor (medium or light) and arcane (stone skin, blink, ect) means to avoid/absorb damage, but with out spending the first three rounds of combat buffing up.

    Scarab Sages

    Possibly burn the spell, but I don't like the idea of sacrifice casting for fighting ability, maybe burn a swift action or move action depending an the bonus, or limit it to int mod + half level times per day ala' channel energy. The latter was my initial thinking with the x bonus being equal to the highest level spell of that type memorized.

    Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

    scotchrocket wrote:
    Possibly burn the spell, but I don't like the idea of sacrifice casting for fighting ability, maybe burn a swift action or move action depending an the bonus, or limit it to int mod + half level times per day ala' channel energy. The latter was my initial thinking with the x bonus being equal to the highest level spell of that type memorized.

    If you make it like a reserve feat/psionic focus, it could be along the lines of this mechanic.

    Spoiler:
    The Magus may with these feats, take his spell preperation time and 'tie' a spell slot to a specific spell and this feat. As long as the spell remains uncast, the Magus receives the bonus. In addition, the spell may be cast on himself or a single target successfully hit with his weapon as a free action. The spell works as normal, but only affects the target, even if it would normally affect multiple targets or an area. Once discharged, the ability can not be 'tied' to another spell until the magus has rested and recovered spells.

    So, for examples:
    shield

    Spoiler:
    Mikey Magus wakes up, and dedicate's a first level spell slot to shield, lets say, as an abjuration spell, it gives him a +1 deflection bonus per level of the spell as long as it remains uncast. He can, at any time, cast it as a free action, at that point it works as a normal shield spell, and he loses the deflection bonus. If he's a spontaneous caster, he can't use that slot for anything else besides shield

    lightning bolt
    Spoiler:
    for our Magus ability, lets say Evocation gives +1 electrical damage per level of the spell. By fixing a Lightning bolt, his attacks do +3 electrical damage until he casts the lightning bolt. While fighting a heavily armoured foe, he gets lucky and scores a successful hit. Wanting to end it quickly, he discharges the lightning bolt into the foe, losing his +3 damage per attack, but doing full lightning bolt damage to his foe, without blasting the rogue flanking directly behind the BBEG.

    Hmm.

    Spoiler:

    Abjuration: +1 to AC/spell level
    Conjuration: Not sure, some kind of status effect? like imparing the target to minus spell level to hit until your next action?
    Divination: +1 to init/spell level
    Enchantment: not sure. Dazed for one round, save vs DC (10 + spell level, plus ability mod)?
    Evocation: This one's easy, +1 damage/level, type to match the energy subtype. (Yes, this means that a magic missle tied to this would do force damage, I'd only allow the force damage to affect incorporeal not the entire weapon)
    Illusion: Target suffers miss chance equal to 5%/spell level for one round
    Necromancy: +1 negative energy damage per level. Optionally +1/two levels, Magus is healed for like amount.
    Transmutation: Not sure.

    401 to 450 of 526 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | next > last >>
    Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / Down with Gish threads... long live the Magus! All Messageboards

    Want to post a reply? Sign in.