House Rules for Clerics

[kenmckinney]

Hey,

I'm not a big fan of Pathfinder's area burst healing for clerics, so I'm considering a house rule:

1) A cleric's channelled energy only affects the undead. An Evil cleric's channelled energy heals undead rather than harming them.

2) cleric spells that can be spontaneously converted (basically cure X wounds for good clerics and inflict x wounds for evil clerics) can be cast as a move action. A cleric can cast only one Cure or Inflict spell, by any means, in the same round - no casting inflict light wounds twice using both the standard and move action.

The idea is to replace the Channel Energy healing burst with something a little more like what 3.X clerics get, but let clerics do more than just heal people in battle. The other goal is to removed low level ranged healing (which I am not a fan of) from the game.

Comments?

Ken

[TriOmegaZero]

As near as I can tell, the only actual change in 1 is that no one gets to choose how they channel. All clerics channel positive energy to damage undead. Even Evil clerics, even though they call it negative energy, it is still positive energy.

For 2, it is basically giving all clerics Quicken Spell for cure spells. Thus my cleric could heal and cast slay living or flame strike in the same round. Is this what you intend?

Me, I don't think clerics are limited to healing people in battle. If anything, that is a psychological limit. A cleric can heal or fight, but many people think 'I have to heal, I'm a cleric' and that is just wrong. I can understand your desire to remove ranged healing at lower levels however.

[DrowVampyre]

I wouldn't remove the healing from the channel ability, personally, as it puts clerics back to burning their spells to heal their comrades. however, I do understand wanting to get rid of ranged healing (I don't have a problem with it, but I see where people would).

What about, instead of doing that, make it so that to heal with channel energy you have to touch the recipient? You could make it upgrade to the normal version at a certain level, if you want, but that way they can still use their channeling to heal with, yet they can't heal at range. Also they'd only be able to heal 1 person per channel instead of the whole party (or you could make it so they can touch multiple allies to heal, but only once each per channel or something...could get complicated then though.).

[kenmckinney]

Well, right now the cleric's positive energy burst can heal his allies. My change would remove that, and yes, bring them back to having to use their spells to do so.

And it isn't quite quicken spell... it's still a move action, not a swift action, which would mean that the cleric would only be healing his friends and casting a regular spell if they were within a 5ft step of him.

But yeah, this is the kind of feedback I want. My player who plays cleric's main complaint is that he has to spend every round healing instead of doing cool stuff, not that he runs out of spells too quickly. So this would be an effort to free him up a bit. I had previously thought about leaving Channel Energy unchanged but making it touch only, but doing that wouldn't address his primary concern since he'd still be using his Standard Action every round to heal.

Ken

[kenmckinney]

The other possibility I'd thought of was getting rid of clerics completely and going with something like this:

Each PC gets the following feat for free:

Worship Ancestor

The PC has a spiritual link with the family matriarch, Grandma Rither , who is now a minor demigod. Three times per day, as a move action the PC can pray to her for the benefit of a first level cleric spell (see list). The spell takes effect the following round, at the beginning of the PC's turn, on the PC (IE granted spells cannot be cast on others). Due to the fact that Grandma Rither is remote and mostly inaccessible, the caster level is the character level of the PC, not Grandma Rither.

Worship Ancestor II
Prerequesite: Character level 3
As Worship Ancestor, but the PC may now pray 4 times per day, and receive first or second level spells.

Worship Ancestor III
Prerequesite: Character level 6
As Worship Ancestor, but the PC may now pray 5 times per day, and receive first, second, or third level spells.

Worship Ancestor IV
Prerequesite: Character level 9
As Worship Ancestor, but the PC may now pray 6 times per day, and receive first, second, third, or fourth level spells.

Grandma's Spell List:
1st:
cure light wounds, shield of faith, remove fear (a frightened PC can pray for this spell)

2nd:
Aid, Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cure Moderate Wounds, Delay Poision, Eagle's splendor,Owl's Wisdom, Remove Paralysis, Lesser Restoration

3rd:
Cure Serious Wounds, Dispel Magic (on self), Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease

4th:
Cure Critical Wounds, Death Ward, Neutralize Poison, Restoration
5th:

Special:

A character who possesses the Tomb Tainted Soul feat prays for Inflict spells, not Cure spells. Furthermore, the character can choose to either accept the healing benefit of the spell, or deliver it as a touch attack on the round it is granted (IE, the round after the PC prays for it).

[DrowVampyre]

kenmckinney wrote:

Well, right now the cleric's positive energy burst can heal his allies. My change would remove that, and yes, bring them back to having to use their spells to do so.

And it isn't quite quicken spell... it's still a move action, not a swift action, which would mean that the cleric would only be healing his friends and casting a regular spell if they were within a 5ft step of him.

But yeah, this is the kind of feedback I want. My player who plays cleric's main complaint is that he has to spend every round healing instead of doing cool stuff, not that he runs out of spells too quickly. So this would be an effort to free him up a bit. I had previously thought about leaving Channel Energy unchanged but making it touch only, but doing that wouldn't address his primary concern since he'd still be using his Standard Action every round to heal.

Ken

You could make touch-channeling a move (or even swift) action... >_> <_< Also, your cleric may not be running out of spells right now, but if he's burning 2 of them every round...he almost certainly will.

[Mon]

DrowVampyre wrote:

What about, instead of doing that, make it so that to heal with channel energy you have to touch the recipient?

[snip]

but that way they can still use their channeling to heal with, yet they can't heal at range. Also they'd only be able to heal 1 person per channel instead of the whole party.

This is pretty close to our house rule. Our rule is : living targets need to be touched, undead targets can be affected in the burst. This also stops the negative-energy-fireball clerics.

Works well enough for us, and fits into our flavour preference.

[TriOmegaZero]

kenmckinney wrote:

And it isn't quite quicken spell... it's still a move action, not a swift action, which would mean that the cleric would only be healing his friends and casting a regular spell if they were within a 5ft step of him.

Until he got up in level and accessed the Mass versions. But my main point was that he was getting two spells a round, which otherwise is only possible with Quicken. If you're fine with that, I see no problems with it. I would totally make a high Str armored cleric for a frontline fighter with this rule, since for the first seven levels I'm never going to take a full attack action in combat, so the ability to either move or heal along with my attack is gravy.

[kenmckinney]

Mon, that actually looks pretty good.

OK, would a high STR armored cleric/frontline fighter be broken with this rule? I'm not proposing eliminating attacks of opportunity for the move-action healing spells, and concentration checks are a lot harder than they used to be. And the cleric can't be using a tower shield if he's casting and fighting at the same time, so his AC won't be maxed out.

Ken

[TriOmegaZero]

Depends on how you rule spellcasting while holding a two-handed weapon. There have been arguments around here about if you can let go with one hand to cast a spell. A fighter/cleric with a greatsword and full plate who can heal himself every round could be potent. Shield of Faith will help with the lack of shield use. AoOs will only be a problem with multiple enemies or with reach, as you won't be using your move action to move, thus allowing you a 5 ft. step. Enemies with Step Up or reach will be needed.

[kenmckinney]

Ah I see...he could attack, 5ft step back, then heal himself.

Yeah, that might be problematic.

I appreciate you guys helping me think about all these possibilities ahead of time!

And well, wrt to the fighter/cleric, he'd need a fighter level to get greatsword proficiency, right? That's hardly optimal, because it delays his access to new spells. And yeah, I fall in the camp of people who say that a cleric wielding a 2H weapon can hold it in one hand and cast a spell...but I'd probably not let them attack with it in the same round. IE, you're either holding it one way or the other, for the entire round.

It seems to me that most casting martial clerics in this scenario would be using bucklers, gaining the AC bonus only on the rounds that they weren't healing themselves.

Ken

[TriOmegaZero]

A level dip into Fighter would get him the greatsword and full plate proficiency along with a bonus feat, so it is more optimal than spending two feats to go that route straight cleric. Even so, a sword and buckler cleric might not be as big a damage dealer, but his AC and easier healing would allow him more staying power.

I don't feel it is that big a trouble, it is certainly an interesting alternative to the paladin. Whatever you decide you need to do to balance it, I recommend being very clear about the rules changes. Maybe talk with your player about the changes and see what effect they will have on his strategies.