Witch Skill List?


Rules Questions


Quick question: are Bluff and Sense Motive seriously not class skills of the witch? Is there a familiar that grants them or something like that, that I am missing?

I mean, c'mon. Bluff?

Shadow Lodge

Guess that means the kids from Hansel and Grettel were idoits and had no ranks in Sense Motive.

I mean come on! Creepy old lady with a house made out of candy? My first question would be "How do you keep it from falling apart when it rains?"

I can understand Witches not having Bluff as a skill, since it's not like almost every story involving a witch has her lying through her teeth or anything...


Oh...and the Witch class really doesn't need any more goodies.

Trust me.


Scandal. I am shocked.

Does anyone know of a way to get the Bluff skill as a class skill without multiclassing?


Multiclassing is the only way by core.

If you use traits, "fast-talker" makes bluff a class skill.

As an alternative though, you could simply take "Skill focus: bluff" which is just as good as making bluff a class skill from levels 1-10, and twice as good at higher levels.


Treantmonk wrote:

Oh...and the Witch class really doesn't need any more goodies.

Trust me.

Are you saying this because the witch gets some nice arcane spells as a full spellcaster as well as access to the cure spells like a cleric?


c873788 wrote:
Treantmonk wrote:

Oh...and the Witch class really doesn't need any more goodies.

Trust me.

Are you saying this because the witch gets some nice arcane spells as a full spellcaster as well as access to the cure spells like a cleric?

Witches have a pretty good spell list, covering cure, battlefield control, debuff and buff (and a bit of blast if that's your thing). However, it's not good to the point of setting witches above other casters. The list is versatile, but not that big compared to Wizards or even Clerics and Druids.

Check out the Hexes though. These are the abilities that make Witches tougher than the other casters IMO.

In the campaign I'm currently playing, I'm trying out a Witch, and I'll tell you that in most battles I don't need to cast spells at all. I debuff the enemy with Evil Eyes and Misfortune - and continually extend them with cackles. It's devastating, and the Witch can do it all again in the next fight.


There's also spells from other books to add to their spell list. A Witch with access to Spell Compendium puts them at par with the other spellcasters, as it should be.


Treantmonk wrote:

Check out the Hexes though. These are the abilities that make Witches tougher than the other casters IMO.

In the campaign I'm currently playing, I'm trying out a Witch, and I'll tell you that in most battles I don't need to cast spells at all. I debuff the enemy with Evil Eyes and Misfortune - and continually extend them with cackles. It's devastating, and the Witch can do it all again in the next fight.

I checked out the Hexes as you suggested. The Evil Eyes -2 single debuff up to level 7 doesn't seem particularly overwhelming. The Cackle looks like it can synergize well with other hexes because it's a move action, but again doesn't look over the top. Misfortune looks pretty good (especially against melee types).

I don't know. This continual debuffing doesn't look like it's game breaking but then again I haven't played it. Do you really think these hexes are overpowering? I would have thought a specialist conjurer or transmuter wizard would be more dangerous.

Dark Archive

I'm playing a 1st level barbarian/19th level witch (w/pig familiar) in the final stages of the Savage Tides Adventure Path. I find myself relying on the Evil Eye Hex and Cackle, instead of spells, when we face mega-tough opponents. Hexes are supernatural, cannot be dispelled, and cannot be disrupted. That is very valuable when facing opponents with high spell resistance, buffs, high AC, etc. And the nice thing about Evil Eye is that it imposes a substantial penalty regardless whether the opponent saves or not.


c873788 wrote:
Treantmonk wrote:

Check out the Hexes though. These are the abilities that make Witches tougher than the other casters IMO.

In the campaign I'm currently playing, I'm trying out a Witch, and I'll tell you that in most battles I don't need to cast spells at all. I debuff the enemy with Evil Eyes and Misfortune - and continually extend them with cackles. It's devastating, and the Witch can do it all again in the next fight.

I checked out the Hexes as you suggested. The Evil Eyes -2 single debuff up to level 7 doesn't seem particularly overwhelming. The Cackle looks like it can synergize well with other hexes because it's a move action, but again doesn't look over the top. Misfortune looks pretty good (especially against melee types).

I don't know. This continual debuffing doesn't look like it's game breaking but then again I haven't played it. Do you really think these hexes are overpowering? I would have thought a specialist conjurer or transmuter wizard would be more dangerous.

-2's until level 10, then -4.

Note also that the saving throw becomes almost irrelevant after Cackle is involved (since it lasts for 1 round if they make their save, and you can extend this indefinitely as a move action).

Once they've got the -4 to all saves, then Misfortune hits really easy. Your cackle is now extending both Misfortune and Evil Eye every round.

Then another evil eye to hit for good measure (saving throw doesn't matter once again).

Now you have an enemy who makes every attack roll and saving throw at -4 and rolls twice taking the worse result - indefinitely. Trust me, this really messes even the toughest challenges up - and its very difficult to defend against.

If you run away and wait to get better - the Witch can do it to you all again when you come back - she can hex all day.

There's a nice synergy with other casters as well. Save or save again spells like "Phantasmal Killer" are now changed from "they almost always save" category to "They almost always die".

Can Wizards lower saving throws by -4 with no save? If they could, I would be all over that. Heck, I'll take two feats just to increase my DC by TWO for ONE school of magic.

Heck - last adventure we played we killed a friggin' DRAGON with GREASE. After debuffing it needed to land to line up an acid line (black dragon), and the party sorcerer cast Grease underneath it. With an Evil Eye, Entangle (my familiar threw a tanglefoot bag at it), and Misfortune, thats 2 Ref saving throws at -6 taking the worst. (Prone dragons die really fast BTW - party flanked like vultures and went to town)

Dark Archive

I am guessing the final version of the witch will allow for only one hex of a type to hit a target. Like only one evil eye. Maybe i am wrong but my guess is that is what was intended.


Dark_Mistress wrote:
I am guessing the final version of the witch will allow for only one hex of a type to hit a target. Like only one evil eye. Maybe i am wrong but my guess is that is what was intended.

Ya, I think I'd houserule something like that for the moment, not just because I don't want my players super debuffing enemy's but because I don't want to have to put a Witch in as an evil NPC to super debuff the PC's in BBEG battles :P


Dark_Mistress wrote:
I am guessing the final version of the witch will allow for only one hex of a type to hit a target. Like only one evil eye. Maybe i am wrong but my guess is that is what was intended.

You are wise.


Yep, everything about the witch feels pretty comfortable and in line with the power of the group I play one in, but I feel a little cheap when I stack a -4 to saves with a -4 to attacks and so forth.

I would be amenable to my GM houseruling that out. As it is, I only use it when I feel I have nothing else to do, or on the rare occasion when we meet a single creature who outclasses us by a mile. We faced a half Dragon Bebilith as a three man party in the last encounter we did in that campaign, for instance. Without my stacking torrent of debuffs, we would be advanturer canapes by now.

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