Improved Grab Grapple Snatch


Advice


What's the difference between Improved Grab and Snatch? Why would a single monster ever use these abilities?

The text for snatch seems to imply that I can do it with one appendage or maintain without sacrificing all of my actions and becoming cannon fodder. Can, for instance, a dragon full attack, bite and snatch with his mouth and continue full attacking? Does the dragon gain the grappled condition for holding, say, a tiny dog in his mouth even though he's colossal sized? Does the dragon have to sacrifice all of his attacks to keep grappling the tiny dog with his bite or can he continue to wreak havoc?


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

There is no such ability as "Improved Grab" in the Pathfinder RPG. Some creatures have the grab ability with certain natural weapons that allow them to start a grapple as a free action wen they score a hit with that weapon. The Snatch feat allows creatures that do NOT have the grab ability to to more or less the same.


Zaister wrote:
There is no such ability as "Improved Grab" in the Pathfinder RPG. Some creatures have the grab ability with certain natural weapons that allow them to start a grapple as a free action wen they score a hit with that weapon. The Snatch feat allows creatures that do NOT have the grab ability to to more or less the same.

Annoying. I remember in 3.5e there was something that monsters could use to just use one hand to grapple someone down. I'm just asking because I'm running Curse of the Crimson Throne and I keep seeing these singular crazy monsters who have grab and grappling is like the worst option for them unless they're doing it on someone who goes just before them in init who's provoking from movement.

Also, icon buddies yeeah


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

That rule still exists. No matter how the grapple has come about, the grappling creature can take -20 on its grapple checks, and if it succeeds, it does not gain the grapples condition and just holds on with the used natural weapon.


Under the Grab rules, you can maintain the grapple with just a limb by taking a -20 on the check.
A lot of readers, myself included, take that to mean that you can make the grapple check at -20 by tying up that limb as a free action, and still have your normal actions (minus the use of that limb). So if the beast is an overwhelmingly good grappler, he can grapple one enemy and still fight the others effectively.


AvalonXQ wrote:

Under the Grab rules, you can maintain the grapple with just a limb by taking a -20 on the check.

A lot of readers, myself included, take that to mean that you can make the grapple check at -20 by tying up that limb as a free action, and still have your normal actions (minus the use of that limb). So if the beast is an overwhelmingly good grappler, he can grapple one enemy and still fight the others effectively.

Hm. So, let's say it's a dragon...

It bites, hits, attempts to start a grapple at -20.

If it fails, can it claw, attempt to grapple with -20, fail again and then claw and attempt again at -20?


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Basically, that's right, as long as it has the Snatch feat, which means it must be a Huge or larger dragon.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4

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Ice Titan wrote:

It bites, hits, attempts to start a grapple at -20.

If it fails, can it claw, attempt to grapple with -20, fail again and then claw and attempt again at -20?

This isn't quite right, because the dragon isn't maintaining the grapple yet, it's just beginning the grab at this stage. So all three of those attacks have a chance to grab the opponent at the dragon's CMB (+4 for simulating the grab ability)

On the dragon's next turn, if the victim has been grabbed and hasn't escaped yet, the dragon can choose to maintain the grab by just holding on to the victim. It's THIS check that suffers the -20, mitigated somewhat by the +5 bonus the dragon gets due to its victim failing to escape during its turn.


Zaister wrote:
That rule still exists. No matter how the grapple has come about, the grappling creature can take -20 on its grapple checks, and if it succeeds, it does not gain the grapples condition and just holds on with the used natural weapon.

I like to explain this to players as the "King Kong" option to grab the girl. :)


I thought the Pathfinder version of grapple still allows you to attack other enemies you threaten, except at a -2 penalty and with -4 penalty to Dexterity against them?


Razz wrote:
I thought the Pathfinder version of grapple still allows you to attack other enemies you threaten, except at a -2 penalty and with -4 penalty to Dexterity against them?

Nope, you have to have the grab ability and take a -20 in order to threaten others.

Sovereign Court

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wraithstrike wrote:
Razz wrote:
I thought the Pathfinder version of grapple still allows you to attack other enemies you threaten, except at a -2 penalty and with -4 penalty to Dexterity against them?
Nope, you have to have the grab ability and take a -20 in order to threaten others.

Wrong you may still attack others outside the grapple but you take a -2 penalty to attacks. The only restriction is you can't take AoO's.

Grappled Condition and If you are Grappled :
Grappled: A grappled creature is restrained by a creature, trap, or effect. Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity. A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those made to grapple or escape a grapple. In addition, grappled creatures can take no action that requires two hands to perform. A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level), or lose the spell. Grappled creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity.

A grappled creature cannot use Stealth to hide from the creature grappling it, even if a special ability, such as hide in plain sight, would normally allow it to do so. If a grappled creature becomes invisible, through a spell or other ability, it gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its CMD to avoid being grappled, but receives no other benefit.

If You Are Grappled: If you are grappled, you can attempt to break the grapple as a standard action by making a combat maneuver check (DC equal to your opponent's CMD; this does not provoke an attack of opportunity) or Escape Artist check (with a DC equal to your opponent's CMD). If you succeed, you break the grapple and can act normally. Alternatively, if you succeed, you can become the grappler, grappling the other creature (meaning that the other creature cannot freely release the grapple without making a combat maneuver check, while you can). Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that requires only one hand to perform, such as cast a spell or make an attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach, including the creature that is grappling you. See the grappled condition for additional details. If you are pinned, your actions are very limited. See the pinned condition in Conditions for additional details.

--Figure Four Leg Vrock!

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