Is the Bestiary a tad repetetive?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Has anybody else noticed that every single evil race has darkvision? Tunnel dwellers make sense. But goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, trolls, ogres, orcs, tieflings, giants, boggards...not only are they all nocturnal, they apparently do most of their roaming on cloudy new moons.


That may be an artifact of earlier times when all these creatures were just series of unrelated encounters in a dungeon with no infrastructure to support them. The only source of light was the party.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Has anybody else noticed that every single evil race has darkvision? Tunnel dwellers make sense. But goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, trolls, ogres, orcs, tieflings, giants, boggards...not only are they all nocturnal, they apparently do most of their roaming on cloudy new moons.

Darkvision is not an "evil" race trait... but it IS a very common sense to give creatures; dwarves and aasimars and svirfneblins and lots of other non-evil creatures have it.

The fact that the underground or the night is culturally identified with fearsome stuff and monsters DOES self-select monsters to live in dark places, and thus self-selects those monsters to have darkvision so that they can actually function.


Umbral Reaver wrote:
That may be an artifact of earlier times when all these creatures were just series of unrelated encounters in a dungeon with no infrastructure to support them. The only source of light was the party.

You're probably right, but it tends to stretch the suspension of disbelief.

I think I'll make a house rule. What races should I edit?


Kobold Cleaver wrote:

You're probably right, but it tends to stretch the suspension of disbelief.

I think I'll make a house rule. What races should I edit?

Just have a world where everyone is blind! That should make combat REALLY intersting.

Silver Crusade

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Has anybody else noticed that every single evil race has darkvision?

tieflings,

>:(


Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Has anybody else noticed that every single evil race has darkvision?

tieflings,

>:(


Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Has anybody else noticed that every single evil race has darkvision?

tieflings,

>:(


James Jacobs wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Has anybody else noticed that every single evil race has darkvision? Tunnel dwellers make sense. But goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, trolls, ogres, orcs, tieflings, giants, boggards...not only are they all nocturnal, they apparently do most of their roaming on cloudy new moons.

Darkvision is not an "evil" race trait... but it IS a very common sense to give creatures; dwarves and aasimars and svirfneblins and lots of other non-evil creatures have it.

The fact that the underground or the night is culturally identified with fearsome stuff and monsters DOES self-select monsters to live in dark places, and thus self-selects those monsters to have darkvision so that they can actually function.

I'm not sure I understand your last statement.

On the first one, you're quite right, but if I said 'all good, neutral and evil creatures have darkvision', it wouldn't be true, would it? 'all evil creatures' has a better punch. :P


Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Has anybody else noticed that every single evil race has darkvision?

orcs,

>:(

Liberty's Edge

Gilfalas wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:

You're probably right, but it tends to stretch the suspension of disbelief.

I think I'll make a house rule. What races should I edit?
Just have a world where everyone is blind! That should make combat REALLY intersting.

Hey, why does every one of your players have the Blind-Fight fe... ohhh, I understand now :P


Gilfalas wrote:


Just have a world where everyone is blind! That should make combat REALLY intersting.

No, because then some one will complain that you nerfed invisiblity and that it makes sneak attack to powerful for blindsight creatures, and unuseable by everyone else.


Mr, Fishy only has low light that invalidates your argument that all evil creatures have darkvision.


Mr.Fishy wrote:
No, because then some one will complain that you nerfed invisiblity and that it makes sneak attack too powerful for blindsight creatures, and unuseable by everyone else.

Can you accurately strike a specific location in a discerned anatomy with Blind Fighting?

Can you DISCERN an anatomy with Blind Fighting?


Are you trying to summon a troll?

Liberty's Edge

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Has anybody else noticed that every single evil race has darkvision? Tunnel dwellers make sense. But goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, trolls, ogres, orcs, tieflings, giants, boggards...not only are they all nocturnal, they apparently do most of their roaming on cloudy new moons.

Most giants, as well as ettins and cyclops, have "low light vision."

Also, there really aren't that many creatures in real life that don't have "low lite vision." We're pretty much the anomaly. We're pretty much physically bankrupt, supragenius bald apes. Our sense of smell is ludicrous. We can't run, jump, fly, or swim worth a s~!~. Being smart is pretty much our only schtick.


Heathansson wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Has anybody else noticed that every single evil race has darkvision? Tunnel dwellers make sense. But goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, trolls, ogres, orcs, tieflings, giants, boggards...not only are they all nocturnal, they apparently do most of their roaming on cloudy new moons.

Most giants, as well as ettins and cyclops, have "low light vision."

Also, there really aren't that many creatures in real life that don't have "low lite vision." We're pretty much the anomaly. We're pretty much physically bankrupt, supragenius bald apes. Our sense of smell is ludicrous. We can't run, jump, fly, or swim worth a s@@#. Being smart is pretty much our only schtick.

Ah, sorry.

But actually, most animals would probably have low-light vision. Like housecats. After all, TRUE darkness isn't exactly common.


Mr.Fishy wrote:
Are you trying to summon a troll?

Absolutely not.

Liberty's Edge

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Has anybody else noticed that every single evil race has darkvision? Tunnel dwellers make sense. But goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, trolls, ogres, orcs, tieflings, giants, boggards...not only are they all nocturnal, they apparently do most of their roaming on cloudy new moons.

Most giants, as well as ettins and cyclops, have "low light vision."

Also, there really aren't that many creatures in real life that don't have "low lite vision." We're pretty much the anomaly. We're pretty much physically bankrupt, supragenius bald apes. Our sense of smell is ludicrous. We can't run, jump, fly, or swim worth a s@@#. Being smart is pretty much our only schtick.

Ah, sorry.

But actually, most animals would probably have low-light vision. Like housecats. After all, TRUE darkness isn't exactly common.

That's....kinda what I said.


Being evil gives you the power to see in the dark.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Mr.Fishy wrote:
Are you trying to summon a troll?

What's that? Is someone trying to cross my bridge?

Liberty's Edge

Sebastian wrote:
Mr.Fishy wrote:
Are you trying to summon a troll?
What's that? Is someone trying to cross my bridge?

You have nitevision, don't you.

Liberty's Edge

Mikaze wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Has anybody else noticed that every single evil race has darkvision?

tieflings,

>:(

there neuter evil now. says so in the book.


Heathansson wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Has anybody else noticed that every single evil race has darkvision? Tunnel dwellers make sense. But goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, trolls, ogres, orcs, tieflings, giants, boggards...not only are they all nocturnal, they apparently do most of their roaming on cloudy new moons.

Most giants, as well as ettins and cyclops, have "low light vision."

Also, there really aren't that many creatures in real life that don't have "low lite vision." We're pretty much the anomaly. We're pretty much physically bankrupt, supragenius bald apes. Our sense of smell is ludicrous. We can't run, jump, fly, or swim worth a s@@#. Being smart is pretty much our only schtick.

Ah, sorry.

But actually, most animals would probably have low-light vision. Like housecats. After all, TRUE darkness isn't exactly common.
That's....kinda what I said.

Sorry, misread and thought you said darkvision.

/\What about the females?

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Heathansson wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Mr.Fishy wrote:
Are you trying to summon a troll?
What's that? Is someone trying to cross my bridge?
You have nitevision, don't you.

I have ultravision.

I'm awesome like that.

Liberty's Edge

Kobold Cleaver wrote:


/\What about the females?

all races' females have hyperacute hearing, and are annoyed to distraction by dripping faucets and ceiling fans that are improperly balanced. It's a universal law.


Heathansson wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:


/\What about the females?
all races' females have hyperacute hearing, and are annoyed to distraction by dripping faucets and ceiling fans that are improperly balanced. It's a universal law.

No, I mean, you said 'neuter' good. Is there a 'spay good' too?

*Is pelted with tomatoes*

Contributor

I'm really trying to figure the reasoning behind giants and ogres having darkvision. I mean, it's nice to have, but it really makes no logical sense.


It would be more interesting to have creatures with darkvision actually being penalized in light conditions by default. swap out some creatures dark vision with low light vision, I think appropriate for most PC races at least and a good number of monsters as well.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Heathansson wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:


/\What about the females?
all races' females have hyperacute hearing, and are annoyed to distraction by dripping faucets and ceiling fans that are improperly balanced. It's a universal law.

No, I mean, you said 'neuter' good. Is there a 'spay good' too?

*Is pelted with tomatoes*

The pup can't help it. Ever since Sebastian offered to "fix him for good" nuetering is all he can think about.


GAAAHHHH wrote:
Being evil gives you the power to see in the dark.

Being good gives you the power to see in the light ;-)


Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
I'm really trying to figure the reasoning behind giants and ogres having darkvision. I mean, it's nice to have, but it really makes no logical sense.

You mean low-light vision, right?

Heathy hit the nail on the head -- every PC race (and practically every NPC race) has low-light vision or darkvision except for humans and halflings. That means that humans and halflings are the Mr. Magoos of the D&D world; they're the exception, not the rule.

On the plus side, humans get all the chicks. Elves, orcs, lings, ogres, dragons, fiends, celestials -- you name it, they all love doin' it with humans. Or maybe it's some kind of "beer goggles" effect.


hogarth wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
I'm really trying to figure the reasoning behind giants and ogres having darkvision. I mean, it's nice to have, but it really makes no logical sense.

You mean low-light vision, right?

Heathy hit the nail on the head -- every PC race (and practically every NPC race) has low-light vision or darkvision except for humans and halflings. That means that humans and halflings are the Mr. Magoos of the D&D world; they're the exception, not the rule.

On the plus side, humans get all the chicks. Elves, orcs, lings, ogres, dragons, fiends, celestials -- you name it, they all love doin' it with humans. Or maybe it's some kind of "beer goggles" effect.

Low-light vision is fine. It's what most animals have, even the nocturnal ones.

And why would everybody have it but humans and halflings? It doesn't make any sense, evolutionarily. I mean, everybody but humans and halflings are either nocturnal or underground? Poor humans and halflings. They must be pretty lonely.

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