Attack of opportunity question

[jyster]

I have a couple of players in my game that says that if someone provokes an AOO then that person wouldnt generate an AOO himself.

Example:

Someone is running past you and provokes, then you trip him with a heavy flail which would provoke.

Ive been told that it wouldnt provoke due to it cascading effect. One would provoke then the next and so on.

So are they correct or wrong.

[Shem]

I am not sure but I do not see the cascading effect.

Person runs past and provokes. That person is tripped and that trip provokes. That would be the end of it.

[TriOmegaZero]

Ask them to show the rule saying that AoO's do not provoke AoO's. Or that when you move, you don't threaten any areas, which would prevent you from taking an AoO. If they can't produce either, they are wrong.

[Are]

You can only make one attack of opportunity in each round, so there is no cascading (unless you have Combat Reflexes). Each of those two actions you describe would provoke an AoO.

[Magicdealer]

See, the thing is that the cascading effect is self-limiting.

Without combat reflexes--

running man provokes

standing man takes an aoo, makes a trip attack and provokes

running man takes an aoo, makes a trip attack.

standing man is out of aoo's to use.

with combat reflexes, you're still limited to the dex bonus.

[Mynameisjake]

jyster wrote:

I have a couple of players in my game that says that if someone provokes an AOO then that person wouldnt generate an AOO himself.

Example:

Someone is running past you and provokes, then you trip him with a heavy flail which would provoke.

Ive been told that it wouldnt provoke due to it cascading effect. One would provoke then the next and so on.

So are they correct or wrong.

Your players are wrong.

[tanonev]

Wait, does that mean that the following is correct?

Wizards Alice and Bob are enemies, and adjacent. Alice has a quarterstaff, and Bob is unarmed.

Bob readies an action to counterspell Alice.
Alice starts casting a spell.
Bob's readied action triggers, and he starts casting a counterspell, provoking an AoO.
Alice takes the AoO with her quarterstaff, disrupting Bob's counterspell.
Alice finishes her spell.

Or the following?

Alice is holding a charge of Shocking Grasp, and no quarterstaff. Eve is on Bob's side, and adjacent to both of them.
Bob readies an action to cast Magic Missile on Alice if Alice tries to touch Eve.
Alice tries to make a melee touch attack on Eve with Shocking Grasp.
Bob's readied action triggers, and he starts casting Magic Missile, provoking an AoO.
Alice takes the AoO with Shocking Grasp, disrupting Bob's spell.
Alice's original touch attack resolves on Eve, except the touch attack results in no damage to Eve.

Or the following?

Jack and Jill are enemy fighters 10 feet apart, both using reach weapons. They both have Combat Reflexes and Dex 16.
Jack begins a full attack.
Jack attempts to sunder Jill's armor, provoking an AoO.
Jill takes the AoO as a sunder attack, provoking an AoO.
Jack takes the AoO as a sunder attack against Jill's armor, provoking an AoO.
Jill takes the AoO as a sunder attack, provoking an AoO.
Jack takes the AoO as a sunder attack against Jill's armor, provoking an AoO.
Jill takes the AoO as a sunder attack, provoking an AoO.
Jack takes the AoO as a sunder attack against Jill's glaive, provoking an AoO.
Jill is out of AoOs.
Jack's sunder attack resolves, breaking Jill's glaive.
Jill's sunder attack is no longer legal, so it resolves with no effect.
Jack's sunder attack resolves, dealing damage to Jill's armor.
Jill's sunder attack is no longer legal, so it resolves with no effect.
Jack's sunder attack resolves, dealing damage to Jill's armor.
Jill's sunder attack is no longer legal, so it resolves with no effect.
Jack's sunder attack resolves, breaking Jill's armor.
Jack continues with his full attack.

[TriOmegaZero]

This is why people take the Improved maneuver feats.

[Aspasia de Malagant]

TriOmegaZero wrote:

This is why people take the Improved maneuver feats.

A little thread necromancy here...

This may be true but how are people supposed to resolve such absurd loops in the mean time. To me, provoking an AOO off of an AOO rewards the original offender making the purpose of attacks of opportunity as a punishment for reckless behavior moot.

Am I to believe that when someone comes running by and I stick my foot out to trip them, they will be able to retaliate before the trip resolves? Absurd...

[Sir_Wulf]

That's why I don't allow AoOs that themselves draw AoOs. Just say no. (I've also decided that attacks which carry free grabs or trip attempts do not get the extra effect on AoOs.)

Can I document these decisions with 100% confidence? No.

Am I sure that's the best way to go? Yes.

My rationale? When an action triggers an attack of opportunity, that represents an action that takes longer than most combat activity or otherwise fully-occupies the combatant's attention. On the other hand, an attack of opportunity represents a quick reaction in response to a foe's perceived vulnerability. You can't quickly react to a glimpsed vulnerability with an attack that takes substantial time and attention.