Diseases


Rules Questions


Okay, so maybe I'm a putz for asking this, but can someone break down how diseases work, with their new layout and such?

Here's one taken straight from the main book to help illustrate.

Blinding Sickness
Type disease, ingested; Save Fortitude DC 16
Onset 1d3 days; Frequency 1/day
Effect 1d4 Str damage, if more than 2 Str damage, target must
make an additional Fort save or be permanently blinded;
Cure 2 consecutive saves

Now, I understand the ingested, as well as the Fortitude save. What confuses me is the other stuff.


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OK,

Onset means they get the first effects of the disease in 1d3 days. Nothing happens at the time of infection if they fail the save.

Once it takes affect on day 1, 2 or 3 depending on the roll they must make another save. Additionally they have to make another save every day after that as they either get "sicker or better".

Any time they fail a save (other then the initial failed save that caused the disease) they take 1d4 Strength damage. If a 1 or 2 is rolled you are done for that day. If a 3 or 4 is rolled they are given an additional save to avoid becoming blind.

Any time they make a save nothing happens for THAT DAY. If they make the save for TWO DAYS in a row they are cured and the disease goes away. But they still suffer any damage from previous failed saves from the disease.

Here is an example.

Day 1 - Drank bad water infected with above Disease. PC rolls fort save and gets a 3 - fail. DM rolls a d3 and gets a 3.

Player now has a couple of days to go find someone to cure them.

Day 2 - Nothing

Day 3 - Nothing

Day 4 - PC makes a fort save and gets a 17. Nothing happens.

Day 5 - PC makes a fort save and gets a 6. Player takes 1d4 STR damage. Rolls a 2 and loses 2 STR. Nothing else happens.

Day 6 - PC makes a fort save and gets a 14. Player takes 1d4 STR damage. Rolls a 4 and loses 4 STR. Must make an additional save and gets a 15. Player is now blind.

Day 7 - PC makes a fort save and gets a 20. Nothing happens.

Day 8 - PC makes a fort save and gets a 18. Nothing happens and as this is the second consecutive made save the disease ends. They player still has STR damage that will get better over time as normal and is blind forever unless cured by a cleric or something.


Wow, they really beefed up diseases in PFRP. I kinda like it, though; it makes Remove Disease spells and powers something a bit more special. Thanks for clarifying!


Thazar wrote:
Day 6 - PC makes a fort save and gets a 14. Player takes 1d4 STR damage. Rolls a 4 and loses 4 STR. Must make an additional save and gets a 15. Player is now blind. (emphasis added)

Wow !!!! That's harsh. I didn't realize the poison rules had been changed so that In-Game poisons now have Out-of-Game effects.

Thanks goodness I'm the DM.

:-P

Rez


Rezdave wrote:
Thazar wrote:
Day 6 - PC makes a fort save and gets a 14. Player takes 1d4 STR damage. Rolls a 4 and loses 4 STR. Must make an additional save and gets a 15. Player is now blind. (emphasis added)

Wow !!!! That's harsh. I didn't realize the poison rules had been changed so that In-Game poisons now have Out-of-Game effects.

Thanks goodness I'm the DM.

:-P

Rez

Hey, that was assuming hard core LARPing! LOL Pathfinder is not for the faint of heart!


Paul Barczik wrote:
Wow, they really beefed up diseases in PFRP. I kinda like it, though; it makes Remove Disease spells and powers something a bit more special. Thanks for clarifying!

Yes, disease and poison are now fairly scary for characters again. (And as far as I am concerned that is a good thing.) Before it was something to be worried about at low levels, but at higher levels was a non-event.

Now you really have to plan on how to deal with poison or disease based foes. The DM can get several good options for adventure hooks easily. And if a couple of characters fail their saves it can add a level of urgency to the party being able to find a cure or get to a temple.

The Exchange

I'm running Pallid Plague tomorrow and the players will have the chance to be inflicted with a particular disease multiple times.
Do the players make a sv each time they have a chance to be infected?until affected? and once infected they can save twice in a row to be cured? Is this how it works?


Thazar wrote:


Here is an example.

Day 1 - Drank bad water infected with above Disease. PC rolls fort save and gets a 3 - fail. DM rolls a d3 and gets a 3.

Player now has a couple of days to go find someone to cure them.

How does the character know he needs to be cured? At this point, he wouldn't know he had the disease unless symptoms started appearing.


Are wrote:
Thazar wrote:


Here is an example.

Day 1 - Drank bad water infected with above Disease. PC rolls fort save and gets a 3 - fail. DM rolls a d3 and gets a 3.

Player now has a couple of days to go find someone to cure them.

How does the character know he needs to be cured? At this point, he wouldn't know he had the disease unless symptoms started appearing.

This is probably true.. but as a DM I would give clues that the player was not feeling well. Then have someone make a heal skill check to try and detect something is up.


Alex MacKinnon wrote:

I'm running Pallid Plague tomorrow and the players will have the chance to be inflicted with a particular disease multiple times.

Do the players make a sv each time they have a chance to be infected?until affected? and once infected they can save twice in a row to be cured? Is this how it works?

There is not a lot of detail on multiple exposures to disease. I would say that the first time a person is exposed to the disease from a specific source it makes a save. If that save is made, then no other saves from that source need to be made for another 24 hours. However, the the character is bitten by two Dire Rats I would say he/she needs to make two saves... one for each. But if they are bit five time between the two rats it is still just two saves. (In this way a disease is different from a poison.)

Once you have a disease I think you do not need to worry about being "more diseased." So once you clear the disease currently affecting you, you are good. But you could still catch it again if you fight another Dire Rat in the future.

The Exchange

Thanks for the input.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

However, one still has to remember that the Heal skill can help the players a lot. If your party cleric has been maxing out her heal skill (and you might need a new cleric if she isn't!); then she can sub her heal skill check for your daily poison save. Not to mention that Lesser Restoration is a 2nd level spell and can keep up with the damage in most cases.

I'm running Savage Tide with one of my groups (3.5), and 4 of the 6 members got infected with Savage Fever in The Bullywug Gambit. Let me tell you, those players were nervous. The cleric had to keep lesser restoration in all her non-domain 2nd level slots, and she still couldn't keep up with the ability score damage. A DM can really only enjoy the effects of stat damaging effects (poison, disease, shadows, wraiths, et al) for maybe the first 4-5 levels of character advancement. After that, high cleric heal checks and spells make stat damage an annoyance at best.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Oooh. What a timely thread. One of PCs just contracted blinding sickness. One question though - I thought the blindness saving throw was required when you lost 2 points of Strength. Am I missing something?

Dark Archive

Hmmm... so if you fail the first save (to see whether you contract it or not) nothing happens until the onset time? Does it work the same way with other types of afflictions, such as poisons? If I fail the first save I don't suffer the effects of the poison unless I fail the saves on the following rounds?


Sebastian wrote:
Oooh. What a timely thread. One of PCs just contracted blinding sickness. One question though - I thought the blindness saving throw was required when you lost 2 points of Strength. Am I missing something?

I believe the blindness save kicks in at more then 2 points... not 1 or 2.


Asgetrion wrote:
Hmmm... so if you fail the first save (to see whether you contract it or not) nothing happens until the onset time? Does it work the same way with other types of afflictions, such as poisons? If I fail the first save I don't suffer the effects of the poison unless I fail the saves on the following rounds?

All diseases and poisons have a frequency. Whenever the frequency happens you must make a save or suffer the effects. Some ALSO have an onset time. If it does you do not suffer any effects or make the follow up saves until after that onset time. (at least I think this is correct)

A poison or disease without an onset time would take effect immediately and then again at every occurrence of the frequency.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Thazar wrote:
Sebastian wrote:
Oooh. What a timely thread. One of PCs just contracted blinding sickness. One question though - I thought the blindness saving throw was required when you lost 2 points of Strength. Am I missing something?
I believe the blindness save kicks in at more then 2 points... not 1 or 2.

Duh. Reading comprehension fail, and you even posted it above. Thanks.


Sebastian wrote:
Duh. Reading comprehension fail, and you even posted it above. Thanks.

I hate it when that happens to me as well. :)


dmchucky69 wrote:

However, one still has to remember that the Heal skill can help the players a lot. If your party cleric has been maxing out her heal skill (and you might need a new cleric if she isn't!); then she can sub her heal skill check for your daily poison save. Not to mention that Lesser Restoration is a 2nd level spell and can keep up with the damage in most cases.

I'm running Savage Tide with one of my groups (3.5), and 4 of the 6 members got infected with Savage Fever in The Bullywug Gambit. Let me tell you, those players were nervous. The cleric had to keep lesser restoration in all her non-domain 2nd level slots, and she still couldn't keep up with the ability score damage. A DM can really only enjoy the effects of stat damaging effects (poison, disease, shadows, wraiths, et al) for maybe the first 4-5 levels of character advancement. After that, high cleric heal checks and spells make stat damage an annoyance at best.

The heal skill doesn't replace the save anymore. It adds a +4 to the saving throw.


Vikingchris wrote:


The heal skill doesn't replace the save anymore. It adds a +4 to the saving throw.

There seems to be a lot of minor changes that you won't really notice until you have reason to read up on the section.. has anyone made a list of all of those little things that have changed from 3.5 to PF (besides the Conversion Guide, which paints in somewhat broader strokes)?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Vikingchris wrote:
dmchucky69 wrote:

However, one still has to remember that the Heal skill can help the players a lot. If your party cleric has been maxing out her heal skill (and you might need a new cleric if she isn't!); then she can sub her heal skill check for your daily poison save. Not to mention that Lesser Restoration is a 2nd level spell and can keep up with the damage in most cases.

I'm running Savage Tide with one of my groups (3.5), and 4 of the 6 members got infected with Savage Fever in The Bullywug Gambit. Let me tell you, those players were nervous. The cleric had to keep lesser restoration in all her non-domain 2nd level slots, and she still couldn't keep up with the ability score damage. A DM can really only enjoy the effects of stat damaging effects (poison, disease, shadows, wraiths, et al) for maybe the first 4-5 levels of character advancement. After that, high cleric heal checks and spells make stat damage an annoyance at best.

The heal skill doesn't replace the save anymore. It adds a +4 to the saving throw.

I stand corrected. As the person above said; I keep finding little changes in the rules everyday; like I discovered the change to the Dodge feat the other day as well/

Just for the record, I like both changes. I always hated the fact that in 3.5, characters were almost guaranteed to make their poison/disease saves after they passed 6th level due to the clerics high Heal skill modifier!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Didn't really see a clear answer, so I'm looking to understand. Assuming a fictional disease onset 1d4 hours frequency 1/day cure 2 consecutive saves

If you make the save at onset what happens? Do you wait another onset interval or just move on to frequency? If you use additional onset intervals, what if you make 2 consecutive saves? Cured right?

Thanks!


If you make the very first save them it is over. You were never afflicted. Here is a link from THE MAN WITH THE ANSWER! :)

Scarab Sages

Wow! I will be glad to get Purity of Body at 5th level - immunity to all diseases.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Thazar wrote:

If you make the very first save them it is over. You were never afflicted. Here is a link from THE MAN WITH THE ANSWER! :)

Ok, that didn't really help clear anything up. And, since I started with the onset portion I thought it was clearly understood you fail the 1st save.

So - exposure *fail*
onset *succeed*
now what? more onset or on to frequency?
if you succeed a 2nd onset, cured?
for that matter if you go on to frequency instead and succeed that, cured?


OK, lets break this down a bit all the way through. Please note that in the link above there was a bit of discussion by JB and he is working on a clarification. So the below is how I understand it to exist now in as much detail as I can provide. I hope it helps to clarify.

1.Affliction comes into contact with target. (In this case your disease.)
You have to make a save based upon whatever your DC is. If you Succeed you are done. Nothing happens. If you fail you suffer the effects of the affliction once and then move onto the Frequency Phase UNLESS it has an Onset. (as your's does). If it has an onset you do NOT take any damage until the onset. This gives you time to get a cure if possible.
1A - Did you make the above save? If yes get out now as you are not afflicted and this is done.

2. Onset Phase. If there is no Onset move on to Frequency and skip 2 and 2A. Make that save against your DC. If you succeed you move on to Frequency and take no damage. If you fail you take damage and then move on to Frequency.
2A - Did you make the save? Is the cure One Save? If so get out now as this is done and you are no longer afflicted.

3. Frequency Phase. Make a save vs the DC. If you succeed take no damage. If you fail take the damage.
3A - Did you make the save? If no then move to Are we Done Yet? If yes have you made a consecutive number of saves in a row without failure equal to the affliction condition? (In your example this is 2 saves.) If the answer is yes get out now as you are cured and no longer afflicted.

4. Are we done yet? Does the affliction have a duration limit on its frequency? If no then go back to step 3. Frequency. If yes have you suffered the total number of rounds needed based upon the affliction and severity of contraction? If yes then get out now. The affliction has worn off without being cured and you are still alive. If no then go back to step 3 Frequency.
4A. Confirmation of if you are still afflicted.
a - Did you make the first save from original contact? If yes you are done.
b - Did you make a total number of consecutive saves equal to the cure conditions without a failure? If yes you are done.
c - Are you still alive after a total number of rounds equal to the maximum duration of an affliction after all adjustments for multiple exposures? If yes you are done.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Thazar wrote:
OK, lets break this down a bit all the way through. Please note that in the link above there was a bit of discussion by JB and he is working on a clarification. So the below is how I understand it to exist now in as much detail as I can provide. I hope it helps to clarify.

Awesome. I did see that JB was going back to the well for a solid decision. This outline is perfect and goes along with what I thought I understood. Thanks!

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