Alchemist Build


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Oh, the beast morpher alchemist will put a kybosh on using poison on your fangs (no big loss imho) but at higher levels will let you pick up pounce


Alright.. i'm switching gears from the hyde to a bomb chucker.

Bombs say refer to splash weapon. Splash weapon refers to thrown weapon. Putting all these together, it would appear that the "direct hit" target would have the str mod added to the damage.

for example:

str 14 (+2)
dex 16 (+3)
int 18 (+4)

would look like this:

+3 attack, 1d6 + 4 + 2 damage to direct hit; 1 + 4 splash

---------------

On an un-related note:

I have NOT been able to clear up a debate on the "firing into melee" with a spellcaster. Do casters need to take the "precise shot" feat? Do they take a penalty for "firing" into melee?


gossamar4 wrote:

Alright.. i'm switching gears from the hyde to a bomb chucker.

Bombs say refer to splash weapon. Splash weapon refers to thrown weapon. Putting all these together, it would appear that the "direct hit" target would have the str mod added to the damage.

I'll look into that tommorow. Sleeeep...

Sleep is for the weak

Thrown Weapons: The wielder applies his Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons (except for splash weapons).

f

Quote:
I have NOT been able to clear up a debate on the "firing into melee" with a spellcaster. Do casters need to take the "precise shot" feat? Do they take a penalty for "firing" into melee?

Yes. Spells (and bombs) are handled the same way as arrows, so point blank and precise are almost musts for a low level alchemist chucker.

Most likely you'll have a party member in your way (the cover rules are REALLY annoying. Its very hard to get a clear shot) giving the enemy a +4 cover bonus, and then you're firing into melee, for a -4 to hit.. for an effective -8 to hit. Even making touch attacks that's a big penalty. So the +5 to hit for two feats (point blank and precise) is worth it.

Also remember that the throw anything feat (which you get for free) adds 1 to hit.


Thanks for that, but would yo;u be able to point out where this is coming from? For example:

pathfinder: core rulebook (pg 179)

Damage: Strength Bonus: When you hit with a melee or thrown weapon, including a sling, add your strength modifier to the damage result.

Where can I find that info on: except for splash weapons?

-----------------

I would also greatly appreciate anyone who could point me to some text declaring spells as following the same "shooting into melee" rules. Pg 184 says, "If you shoot or throw a ranged WEAPON....

pg 131 refering to "Precise Shot"
Benefit: You can shoot or throw ranged WEAPONS at an opponent engaged in melee...

Under magic sections... all I can find is "line of sight...line of effect" stuff.

Thank you for your research, in advance.


The not adding Strength to damage with splash weapons is a specific property of splash weapons. You throw splash weapons, but that doesn't mean that splash weapons follow all the same rules of thrown weapons. If I throw a rock at you really hard, it's going to hurt. If I throw a glass vial at you, it's going to shatter at a certain point, regardless of how hard I through it. In the case of splash weapons, the throwing isn't what does the damage, it's the contents of the vial. Alchemists just get the ability to add their Intelligence to damage by dint of their whole magical connection to chemicals and the like.


So I played the gnome hyde alchemist last week. It had it's fun points, but the aspect that really shined was the bomb throwing. So with a few tweeks I've "reset" the character to focus on bombing. I went ahead and made the change to an elf with the following stats:

str = 12
dex = 18
con = 12
int = 20
wis = 10
cha = 10

1st feat - point blank shot

2nd lvl discovery - precise bombs

Any suggestions where to take him from here? I'm curious what mutagen would be most helpful? Str w/ composite long bow, Dex for attack bonus, or con for HP? What generally seems to work best? Any "tricks"/"combos" I should be looking for? I expect the next feat to be precise shot, next discovery to be either infusion (to help out party) or a specialized bomb.


gossamar4 wrote:
Thanks for that, but would yo;u be able to point out where this is coming from?

Not really. Its a thousand times faster to find it on the SRD. I could link you to the webpage and you could find it in the book from there as easily as i could (easier, since my book is 34 % duct tape at the moment.

Thrown Weapons: Daggers, clubs, shortspears, spears, darts, javelins, throwing axes, light hammers, tridents, shuriken, and nets are thrown weapons. The wielder applies his Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons (except for splash weapons). It is possible to throw a weapon that isn't designed to be thrown (that is, a melee weapon that doesn't have a numeric entry in the Range column on Table: Weapons), and a character who does so takes a –4 penalty on the attack roll. Throwing a light or one-handed weapon is a standard action, while throwing a two-handed weapon is a full-round action. Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. Such a weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/equipment.html#thrown-weapons

Quote:

I would also greatly appreciate anyone who could point me to some text declaring spells as following the same "shooting into melee" rules. Pg 184 says, "If you shoot or throw a ranged WEAPON....

pg 131 refering to "Precise Shot"
Benefit: You can shoot or throw ranged WEAPONS at an opponent engaged in melee...

Under magic sections... all I can find is "line of sight...line of effect" stuff.

Thank you for your research, in advance.

Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don't have to see the creature you're trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature at which you're aiming.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html#ray

So precise shot is pretty much your bombers next feat choice.


Quote:
Any suggestions where to take him from here? I'm curious what mutagen would be most helpful? Str w/ composite long bow

Thats tricky because you either can't get your full strength bonus out of the longbow when you're using your mutagen or you have a penalty to hit when you're not using the mutagen. Or you can carry two bows but thats expensive.

Once at 7th level take rapid shot, at 8th level you take fast bombs . Rapid shot gives you -2 to.. oh drat, your touch attacks, and you can launch 3 bombs in round, setting someone on fire and freezing them in place

Quote:
Dex for attack bonus, or con for HP? What generally seems to work best?

Dex. You can use it to attack with arrows, or turn yourself into a high ac dex tank for a little while.

Quote:
Any "tricks"/"combos" I should be looking for?

Resource management. If its an easy fight, plink at things with your bow. If its a moderate fight, down a mutagen and be effective with your bow. If its a nasty fight, bombs away.

Quote:
I expect the next feat to be precise shot, next discovery to be either infusion (to help out party) or a specialized bomb.

Infusion is good. Enlarge person is obscene at low levels: basically any sort of two handed fighter will simply one shot things that get near him.

Frost is often overlooked: it slows down melee types.

The big kicker is alchemical allocation. It completely changes how the class works. You can keep nothing but alchemical allocations at second level, keep a handy haversack full of potions, and poof, you're a spontaneous spellcaster that knows 15 2nd and 15 third level spell.. any of which you can cast with 2 rounds, the alchemical allocation, and a bucket.

Shadow Lodge

The fast memorization time helps too. Dismiss memorizing extracts in the morning, travel to wherever you are expected to go, assess the situation(e.g we recently had to scale hundred foot walls) and then sit down to memorize the right extracts. Having most of your combat stuff being first level extracts(shield, enlarge person, etc) helps as well, since second level has some nice utility.

Sovereign Court

am i adding this right?

i'm a level 3 human alchemist

str - 16 +3
dex - 16 +3
con - 15 +2
int - 17 +3
wis - 14 +2
cha - 14 +2

point blank - 1st lvl feat
precise shot - bonus human feat
precise bomb (discovery)
focused shot - 3rd lvl feat

i just picked up a +1 crossbow launcher (range 30ft)

+3 dex, +1 point blank, +1 magic weapon, and +2 BAB = +7 atk

+3 focused shot, +3 int for bomb, +1 point blank, +1 magic weapon = +8 dmg


Dennis Baker wrote:
gossamar4 wrote:
Can I take the "extra discovery" feat, as my 1st lvl character creation feat?

Technically, you don't get the class feature until 2nd level so can't take extra discovery until 3rd.

This is so very true. So very true. Very.

Frankly. It's all about receiving the notion. Every time. You sit and you are still and you have an idea and then you do not jump to conclusions with your idea. You make your conclusions jump to you, every time. This is the way we use our minds. We rise to the occasion and sit down at home.

It's a tricky business; a slippery slope one might say. But advent creationism in the phorm of graphical representation is but only that my friend. Once you remove the screen you don't know what you're doing anymore.

So stay true to the screen and do not remove it until you've learned every word from every book needed to produce your game. Stay true to the words and you will be all right. So long as you produce a notion. I mean "emotion". Sorry, lazy typist here.

Anyways. I just wanted to clarify without a doubt of ind...mind* that it's a simple as 1 2 3.

Everything is just a process. Everything is just a process. One singular process operating multi-notionally. Yet practiced individually beget still simultaneous.

How you could ever forget this I would never know. For I'm not you. But my game is feeling rather bwielderd. Barren of wilderness.

I am seeing no gains from my crops for I am cropping no gains from my losses. Now I have been stuck. My code is struck but my mind is stoli. Stoic.

My code keeps staring me back in the face but I don't want it anymore. It's not exciting enough. Thusly I am without excitement. Endure and you will see that I am still burning but yet to be enflamed. This is what an old mystic told me once. I didn't listen to him. He was full of baloney. All the time. But he was...

The code never crept past him in any form. No dischev'ld er derivation. No disgrace to be. The man was pizzzaz. He was always saying stupid things. Like poof and stuff. What does that even mean?

But I had been working on a pretty sweet game for a while. Stopped watching tv, stopped doing everything but working on my game. Then I realized I'd been doing it for too long without any help from fellow ing'eninuity. Engineers. Sorry I have a slippery tongue. It's not my fault.

So. When I realized. I just sort of died inside. I sort of just said whatever, I knew it all along. This isn't going to work.

So you should help out the community and keep learning to teach people because some people get really easily saddened by these things. They take them very seriously. Then they get upset even more because they tried too hard. Then the stop trying because they are emotionally affected. This is all life my friend. We all must learn. So we sit down. After the bills are paid and the lights are dim and we are in our mind of one a moment of body we ensue to type out a decent persuasion for the game. A mainframe for all. Then a way. Some simple truth. Place the bulb.

Chaling.

You an engineer. You create characters in your mind and play them out every day. Why you having the troubles my friend. This is what I ask myself. Everyday. This is what I ask myself everyday.

You are the mind and body but you have no spirit. Every perfect al'chaem'a'da best even in the east an to the west has the spirit.

It comes from in your mind and then you say it. On paper you scribble. On parch you be meath. On lent you offer up your ideas to the mind of greater notion and manifest each emotion.

How hard is this to

Excuse my typo's.

Ther is no troull. Here. There is no gyp. In your word. You will see. You keep working at it pal. You keep working. We'll be friends soon.

For now. <3 this is all I have to give you. Use your mind and make of it what you will.


I'm not sure if it will help any, but if your GM is alowing
3.5 WOTC material. Their is a feat form Complete Adventurer
called Brutal Throw (p. 106). This feat allows yo to add your STR modifier to attack rolls with thrown weapons modifier, instead of your
DEX modifier.
This should allow you to ignore dexterity to some extent,
instead focusing primarily on strength for your alchemist
bulid. This could be especially useful for the master chymist.


elf, ratfolk, tieflings, humans, and half orcs make the best grenadiers. Typically the half orc is the best choice. Remember the feat hammer the gap combined with Viper Bomb Admixture is pretty good as well.


Forgive me if someone has already mentioned this, but I didn't see it.
The Alchemist has the potential to be the most powerful buffer in the whole game. If you take the infuse extract discovery, you can hand out any of your extracts to party members. Any of them, even the ones that target only you. You can hand out the buffs at the beginning of the day or at the entrance to the dungeon and not even have to worry about buffing for the rest of the day. This leaves you free to pursue the bomber or throwe aspect and solley focus on the martial aspect of the character. It' like having two characters in one. You also have the advantage of being able to hold off on brewing your extracts untill you need them. It takes only 1 minuet per extract to brew. So make a few to get you though the day and hold a few back for those special situations where you will need a critical spell and you will be the hero of the party.


MrPineapples: Yep :D That's one of the most awesome features of the alchemist. The class writeup even recommends that.

For a class that's meant to be selfish, they have some of the best party member buffs in the game.

Dark Archive

So for all of these builds that have wisdom at 10 and plan to rush into melee, especially the ones that plan to increase dexterity at the expense of wisdom, I would like to know how you plan to deal with your ridiculously low will save.

Are you taking Iron Will and Improved Iron Will? Are you taking traits? How do you deal with your crazy alchemical monster being mind-controlled?


Traits, cloak of resistances, banking on the fact that in the past 4 years my GM hasn't done any mind-control magic against PCs...


This is a fun thread! 10th level
Vanara Alchemist 9 /fighter 1- Ren
25 point buy
Str: 12
Dex: 16
Con: 10
Int: 17
Wis: 14
Cha: 12
Vanaras have +2 to Dex and Wisdom, - 2 to cha.
Middle aged gives -1 to all physical stats and +1 to all mental stats

1: Point Blank Shot (1st level feat), Brew Potion (Alchemist bonus feat), Throw Anything (Alchemist bonus feat)
trait: fast drinker (Move action to drink potion in hand at beginning of round)
2:(Fighter) Precise shot
3: Precise Bombs (Discovery), Two Weapon fighting
4: :(
5: Explosive Bomb (Discovery),Far Shot
6: :(
7: Some sort of element damage, depending on campaign(discovery) or extend potion; Rapid Shot
8: :(
9: ?
10: :(

Skills: Climb, Craft (Alchemy), Disable Device, Perception, UMD,
Spellcraft, knowledge of sorts

Vanaras have a prehensile tail that allows retrevial of items as a swift action. They also have a climb speed. This is only an outline and I'll see how it works as I go. UMD would allow me to cast Retrieve Item and abundant ammo. The character isn't really min-maxed as I need most all stats to work. Str for climbing, cha for umd, of course an alchemist needs int and dex (for ranged). I'm making him middle aged as our campaigns tend to go a long time and the alchemist gets age resistance as an extract. Fighter gives a bonus on BAB and climb as a class skill. I'd also need the extra feat. I was thinking about being a mindchemist for the extra damage, as touch acs shouldn't be too difficult, and I can always just aim for a square and splash.

Dark Archive

What is the fighter level for? I don't think Two-Weapon Fighting is necessary until you can grab Fast Bombs at level 8. The same goes with Rapid Shot.


at the point when I get rapid shot, I should be able to UMD retrieve item spell to call alcemist fire/holy water to hand as free action. Two weapon fighting might be early, but with swift retrival (tail), I should be able to take 2 attacks every other round.

Edit:
I'm still unsure about RAW on retrieve item though


I think that the intent for Retrieve Item is that the calling-back action is a Standard action, due to its high similarity to command-word items and the "Same, or very different" principle of PF's design. That's how I'd run it at least. I'm not so convinced that I'll argue this heavily, but it looks like a command-word, works like a command-word, and oddly enough quacks like one too.

You'd also need to cast it on each alchemical item! Yikes.


Yea, it might be a standard. I didn't realize it was 2nd level spell too, that is expensive. I might rethink the UMD route on this realization. I'll probably have enough to worry about with potions anyhow.


Im making my first alchemist ever and its for the council of thieves Campagin and im trying to plan ahead for my level progression and i plan to try to concentrate on ranged with my crossbow. can you tell me if you think this would be a good build please. and how i could improve it and any suggestions for the higher levels.

1st feat: Point blank
2nd discovery: Precise bombs, Explosive Bomb
3rd feat: Precise shot
4th discovery: Explosive missile
5th feat: Focused shot

Grenadier Archetype
will also let me use the Alchemical Weapon ability which i thought would go nice with my crossbow if i run out bombs

The Exchange

I want to build an alchemist - who focus is poisons, and normal alchemy weapons. Like the Liquid sword. Love this item. Any ideas on how to max posion and this item along with crafting normal alchemist items. Take the breath weapon so i don't have to use bombs. Any other ideas? I thought of taking bard levels for the perform skill string, singing, and Epic poems. I want a willy wonka, Madhatter feel to the build. I want him to be the closes thing to a kinder you can get with out being asked to leave the table.

Looking just for a fun wild build. does not have to be max damage or opt. I just like poison and alchemist items. And why can't i wear a madhatter Hat and walk a round with a cane, talking nosense and tring to see where the eggs come from when a female dragons laids them. Or trining to use a manticore as a mount. It does have four legs.

Grand Lodge

This is my current Alchemist:

Lava Gnome
Alchemist (Grenadier) Lvl 3

ST- 5
CN - 14
DX - 16
IN - 18
WS - 7
CH - 11

Lvl 1 - Martial Weapon Proficiency - Sap (replaces Brew Potion), Point-blank Shot
Lvl 2- Precise Bomb Discovery (replaces Fast Poisoning), Infusion Discovery
Lvl 3 - Precise Shot

Not having either DEX or INT as a racial bonus hurts, but Pyromaniac and Gnome Alchemist favord class ability help make up for that.

I am finding the Infusion Discovery can be a real boon to the party, especially if I leave several formula slots open and have a wide variety of utility formulas available. Being able to whip out 1 or more special circumstance formulas with only a few minutes preperation can be extremely useful.

"We have to cross a large body of water? Let me mix up some Touch of the Sea for our weak swimmers."

"We have to haul all of this stuff back to town? Let me mix up some Ant Hauls."

"The party wizard cast Mage Armor on your Monk? Here, let me add Shield onto that."

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