How to pitch an idea...


Product Discussion


There have been threads the last few days about becoming a 3PP and what it takes, but how would someone who just has some ideas, and would like to create, pitch an idea to a company so they would want to use said work?


TheChozyn wrote:

There have been threads the last few days about becoming a 3PP and what it takes, but how would someone who just has some ideas, and would like to create, pitch an idea to a company so they would want to use said work?

Can't speak for any of the publishers that frequent these boards. But reading many of their posts, I think it's as easy as sending out an email and just throwing your idea out there. Every publisher, or person repping a publisher on here seems very approachable to the community at large.


ken loupe wrote:
Can't speak for any of the publishers that frequent these boards. But reading many of their posts, I think it's as easy as sending out an email and just throwing your idea out there. Every publisher, or person repping a publisher on here seems very approachable to the community at large.

I agree, every 3pp, and the paizo staff themselves are all amazing people. My goal with this post is to get them to place their requirements so that people who have these great ideas can maximize there chances with their submissions.

Super Genius Games

We're always willing to look at ideas. Can't promise we'll use it, the pay isn't out of this world, and our production schedule is full for the time being, but if you've got an awesome idea we're always willing to talk.

Hyrum.
Super Genius Games


HyrumOWC wrote:

We're always willing to look at ideas. Can't promise we'll use it, the pay isn't out of this world, and our production schedule is full for the time being, but if you've got an awesome idea we're always willing to talk.

Hyrum.
Super Genius Games

Most 3PP, incluidnge LPJ Design, feels the same way about this. We like talking to people who want to seriously be in this business. It is good for all of us.


HyrumOWC and LMPjr007,

Awesome, but what would you like to see in a submission?

Completed first draft?
Rough draft/outline?
Fluff overview?

What do you look for when it comes to rules supplements over adventures ideas?

Liberty's Edge

^ what he said...How specific do submissions need to be?

Jon Brazer Enterprises

The best advice I can give is to read a column on RPG.net called Freelancing is not Free. Following the advice in the first post in the column got my first freelancing gig. I can't recommend it highly enough.

Now to your specific questions: Complete draft? No. I'd rather you either ask me what do I need or pitch me an idea that fits in with my existing lines. If I like your idea, I'll ask to hear more about it. If I like it at that point we'd probably hammer out a more concrete rough outline. i.e. My first freelance gig, I had a great idea for 6 npcs but the publisher only wanted 5. We decided together which got cut.


Gun Metal Games is also entertaining proposals from prospective writers for small 5 to 6k word products.

To submit, you should send a 1 page summary of your idea to myself at the following email address:

mdavidjarvis@yahoo.com

If I like what I see, we can certainly discuss things in greater detail.

Super Genius Games

Xpltvdeleted wrote:
^ what he said...How specific do submissions need to be?

Xpltvdeleted, TheChozyn,

Like David said above, we're looking for a 1 page summary at most. We're not really doing adventures, but if you've got a cool idea we might entertain it. Look at our Genius Guides as a great example of what we're doing right now: classes, feat books, new types of magic, etc.

Hyrum.
Super Genius Games
"We err on the side of awesome."


Our latest release, Strategists & Tacticians, came about entirely because Ryan Costello, Jr. approached me with his concept. I listened, asked to see a rough draft, liked it, and told him we'd do it. He then worked closely with editor Connie Thomson to polish it up and bring it more in line with our other print products.

I'm always up for hearing concepts and idea pitches, but as others have said, it doesn't mean I'll go for it. Ryan is not the only one to approach me with a pitch, but he is the only one I've accepted.

Robert Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming

Scarab Sages

As someone who is just now myself getting into freelancing, my advice would be twofold:

1) Make sure your proposals are clean: Meaning, pay attention to your spelling, grammar, etc. and make sure that your ideas are well organized.
2) Turn in your work on time and as quickly as possible.


Wicht wrote:

As someone who is just now myself getting into freelancing, my advice would be twofold:

1) Make sure your proposals are clean: Meaning, pay attention to your spelling, grammar, etc. and make sure that your ideas are well organized.
2) Turn in your work on time and as quickly as possible.

As a publisher, I'll stress #2 over #1. While being professional in your proposal is good, for me it won't kill your idea. After all, we've got editors that can fix your grammar in the final draft (and who will find errors you didn't even realize you made), but we can't "fix" late work.

Robert
4WFG

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
hunter1828 wrote:
Wicht wrote:

As someone who is just now myself getting into freelancing, my advice would be twofold:

1) Make sure your proposals are clean: Meaning, pay attention to your spelling, grammar, etc. and make sure that your ideas are well organized.
2) Turn in your work on time and as quickly as possible.

As a publisher, I'll stress #2 over #1. While being professional in your proposal is good, for me it won't kill your idea. After all, we've got editors that can fix your grammar in the final draft (and who will find errors you didn't even realize you made), but we can't "fix" late work.

Robert
4WFG

Wait you guys don't have a time machine? What kind of shoddy second rate business are you running anyways? :D


Wicht wrote:

As someone who is just now myself getting into freelancing, my advice would be twofold:

1) Make sure your proposals are clean: Meaning, pay attention to your spelling, grammar, etc. and make sure that your ideas are well organized.
2) Turn in your work on time and as quickly as possible.

3) Have a good reason WHY you think it will sell. Alot of people NEVER thing about this. The more people that who will find the product useful, the better chance you have of getting it picked up and made.


Dark_Mistress wrote:
Wait you guys don't have a time machine? What kind of shoddy second rate business are you running anyways? :D

It's on our list of necessary office supplies to purchase, as soon as we have the funds. ;)


We're always looking for proposals and would like to see just a synopsis before a completed work. It's important to be at least passingly familiar with the company's products before submitting anything. The points brought up by my fellow publishers above are also quite valid. And please have a firm grasp of the rules for the proposed project (in this case, of course, Pathfinder).


Being professional on your proposal is essential for me. I won't even bother looking at it if its sloppy.

Facts that matter--number of words (estimated), synopsis (assume 5% as long as the book), deadlines you will meet, spelling, grammar, formatting, rules accuracy.

The less I have to do to understand what I am saying yes to, the more likely I will say yes. At Necromancer I got maybe 2-3 submissions per month. I rejected about 90%. The ones I kept were so good I came out of retirement because I felt an obligation to the writer's who had been so mprofessional in their work.

Writers like Greg Vaughan and Lance Hawvermale get lots of work because they are diligently professional. WDB Kenower is clean, consistent and always meets deadlines. Patrick Lawinger and Casey Christofferson send in finished manuscripts BEFORE you have a deal. these uys have combined for what, maybe 50 books w/ 6-8 companies? They are all free lance writers.

Frog God Games

How cool is this thread? A guy asks a question about getting published and already a half dozen PUBLISHERS have chimed in, not to mention other freelancers. That is pure awesome. I love this biz!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I think a good pitch is about three short paragraphs. The trick is not only to get across your idea, but convey how you plan on developing it.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

DMcCoy1693 wrote:
The best advice I can give is to read a column on RPG.net called Freelancing is not Free. Following the advice in the first post in the column got my first freelancing gig. I can't recommend it highly enough.

I agree, you can learn quite a bit from that column.


Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
How cool is this thread? A guy asks a question about getting published and already a half dozen PUBLISHERS have chimed in, not to mention other freelancers. That is pure awesome. I love this biz!

And that is why these forums are my favorite.


I was actually done a month before the deadline of the bestiary I did..then my editor added another 12 monsters. Still finished a week ahead, but I was sweating it.
So when sells? I know SGG's class/feat/magic books fly, but what else? What is the market for modules, or monster books, or spell/item books? Personally I love anything with new monsters, and new spells. I also like modules that have the old time feel. I spent a small fortune on the Goodman Games 3.5 stuff, even if the treasure was a bit over the top.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Blackerose wrote:

I was actually done a month before the deadline of the bestiary I did..then my editor added another 12 monsters. Still finished a week ahead, but I was sweating it.

So when sells? I know SGG's class/feat/magic books fly, but what else? What is the market for modules, or monster books, or spell/item books? Personally I love anything with new monsters, and new spells. I also like modules that have the old time feel. I spent a small fortune on the Goodman Games 3.5 stuff, even if the treasure was a bit over the top.

The two companies I see pretty constantly hitting the top 10 list in RPG count down are Super Genius Games and 4 Wind Fantasy Games. I don't know how inclusive that is but they are both pretty constantly on the list. Others that I think sells well but that is more from what I hear people talk about is stuff from Rite Publishing and LPJ Design. This is of course just 3pp Pathfinder stuff.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
hunter1828 wrote:

Our latest release, Strategists & Tacticians, came about entirely because Ryan Costello, Jr. approached me with his concept. I listened, asked to see a rough draft, liked it, and told him we'd do it. He then worked closely with editor Connie Thomson to polish it up and bring it more in line with our other print products.

I'm always up for hearing concepts and idea pitches, but as others have said, it doesn't mean I'll go for it. Ryan is not the only one to approach me with a pitch, but he is the only one I've accepted.

Robert Thomson
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming

Just because you don't have a publisher attached doesn't mean you sit on your hands. When I pitched S&T to Robert, I already had a strict outline and had put months of work into the project. There was no guarantee any of the work I'd done would pay off but I was passionate about designing and confident in my abilities. I also had several artists committed to the project. I'm not sure how common that is when pitching a project or how much that factored into Robert signing off on Strategists & Tacticians, but I think it showed my commitment to an end product and not just an idea I was throwing around.


Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
How cool is this thread? A guy asks a question about getting published and already a half dozen PUBLISHERS have chimed in, not to mention other freelancers. That is pure awesome. I love this biz!

I know, seriously. That is kind of amazing really


MerrikCale wrote:
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
How cool is this thread? A guy asks a question about getting published and already a half dozen PUBLISHERS have chimed in, not to mention other freelancers. That is pure awesome. I love this biz!
I know, seriously. That is kind of amazing really

I think the real reason it that Paizo ACTUALLY helps support and grow 3PP. The access to information and people at Paizo is AMAZING. WOTC never treated me 1/10th as well as Paizo does.


LMPjr007 wrote:
MerrikCale wrote:
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
How cool is this thread? A guy asks a question about getting published and already a half dozen PUBLISHERS have chimed in, not to mention other freelancers. That is pure awesome. I love this biz!
I know, seriously. That is kind of amazing really
I think the real reason it that Paizo ACTUALLY helps support and grow 3PP. The access to information and people at Paizo is AMAZING. WOTC never treated me 1/10th as well as Paizo does.

and frankly that shows in the quality of 3PP Pathfinder stuff like 4 Winds, Super Genius, and your stuff


TheChozyn wrote:

There have been threads the last few days about becoming a 3PP and what it takes, but how would someone who just has some ideas, and would like to create, pitch an idea to a company so they would want to use said work?

I've had some success (about 5 successes) within the last year or so. If you are just starting out and want to get published, I think you should try it the other way round. There's nothing wrong with writing if you like writing or with just shooting off some queries, but if you are out to sell you should take a targeted approach. Rather than thinking up something you like and trying to find a publisher willing to take it, become a student of a publisher you are interested in. Find a publisher who publishes the kind of stuff you want to write and feel you are qualified to write and pitch an idea. I check this messageboard constantly, as well as enworld marketplace and a few others, looking for publishers expressing their needs.

Scarab Sages

You should also pay attention to open calls and submit to those that seem in line with something you might like to try.


Wicht wrote:
You should also pay attention to open calls and submit to those that seem in line with something you might like to try.

This worked well, with Headless Hydras book of spells. They have another idea in the works in the near future, that is right up my ally ;-)

Paizo Employee Director of Game Development

All of the advice given in this thread is solid and I can’t really add to it except to emphasize what others have offered.

It is important to not only know your audience, but also know the publisher. Looking around, you can easily find a company producing the type of material you are formulating in your head. Search out the publisher that is producing material that suits your style and focus. Buy some of their products, see what they’ve already done, look at other material and make sure you aren’t rehashing something that has recently been done, see what gamers liked and didn’t like. Use this to steer your pitch.

Also, writing a pitch is an art in of itself. Make sure to give all the juicy parts, with enough description to give it value, but not so much that you drone on about one thing or another. Keep it short. Whet an appetite. When pitching an adventure, the most important thing (aside from it being awesome) is telling the reader what the PCs actually do instead of a page of backstory. There have been a number of articles and columns written on the subject. (A suggestion.) Search them out. Find other freelancers, make friends with them, and share stories. Other folks throwing themselves against slush piles and other freelancer-related barriers will be your best friends and resources in the quest for publication.

If, well, when rejection happens, don’t take it too much to heart. Listen to the editor/publisher. Consider what they said. Make it a learning experience and get back on that keyboard and clickety-clack your way to a new opportunity. No one with the grit to freelance ever quit with their first rejection.

Edit: Also, I often direct new or aspiring freelancers to visit different companies' websites to seek Submission Guidelines. If any of the publishers who have sounded off above have submission guidelines on their websites, perhaps this thread would be a good place to link to them. If you are a publisher who wants submissions and do not have a submission guidelines page, why not make one real quick? :)Many freelancers don't want to bug people, and by not having submission guidelines, freelancers will skip past and find someone who looks willing.

Dark Archive

What would be nice to see would be an independent website dedicated to matching freelancers and companies throughout the gaming industry, as well as serving as a place to pitch ideas. Sort of the gaming world's version of www.pitchq.com, which is a place screenwriters may pitch their ideas to movie companies.

Jon Brazer Enterprises

RPG.net and ENWorld both have section of their forums for that.

Dark Archive

DMcCoy1693 wrote:
RPG.net and ENWorld both have section of their forums for that.

The problem with those sites is their primary function is about gaming from the players’ perspective. Just as the focus of this board is center on PF with other stuff being discussed second hand. You have to look for what you're after on most sites and as mentioned it is second hand interest. A dedicated site might have those same aspects, but its primary purpose as well as the first thing you'd find would be forums along the lines of "we're looking for x pages of freelance" or "I have an idea for a game" and so on. Which a big benefit a dedicated site would offer, concerning publishing games, is that publishers could then list under their profile submission guidelines along with contact information, etc (granted most of this should be on their own site, but it does make it convenient). The downside to the other sites you mentioned is eventually the threads disappear and sooner or later someone asks the same questions all over again, starting a whole new thread. A dedicated site wouldn’t hurt the market.

Grand Lodge

I couldn't see this mentioned above, but Wolfgang Baur's Open Design projects has released a series called 'Kobold Guide to Game Design' and there happens to be one on How to Pitch, Playtest & Publish'.

http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/o/openDesign/koboldGuides/v5748btpy86ja


Buzzby is right about the Kobold Guide to Game Design. GREAT resource full of juicy bits about pitching and freelancing.

And don't discount the baptism by fire that Open Design provides to its Senior Patrons in projects. I know it certainly opened the door for me. In less than one year, I went from pitching ideas to patrons to running my own two-book project and writing for Paizo. Senior Patrons of Open design projects not only get the best seat in the house (either front row or backstage, depending on your analogy) but get to collaborate with other talented writers and pitch ideas in successive rounds towards adventures, crunch and fluff of the finished product -in some cases entire chapters. Your pitches get positively critiqued and you get the straight dope pretty quick on why yours may or may not have worked.

It is an excellent way to get your feet wet, and there are new projects on the horizon! Get in early and stay late.

Brandon

Scarab Sages

I agree with Brandon, the Senior Patron slots are valuable for both getting to know other creative people and for getting your feet wet in design work. They give you an opportunity to see if you have what it takes to produce material.

Also, don't overlook submitting articles for publications like Kobold Quarterly as a way to get your name out there.

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