Ettercap Noose Trap (James & Staff Help If You Can!)


Rules Questions


Did it ever get the issue of the ettercap noose trap cleared up? I am referring to the incomplete trap listed in the Ettercap entry of the Bestiary. It sounds like a really cool trap, I'd love to use it.

If this issue is still unresolved, any help or interpretations James & Staff could provide would be appreciated! I am hoping to run a large ettercap encounter in a couple weeks.


Bump...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Rake wrote:

Did it ever get the issue of the ettercap noose trap cleared up? I am referring to the incomplete trap listed in the Ettercap entry of the Bestiary. It sounds like a really cool trap, I'd love to use it.

If this issue is still unresolved, any help or interpretations James & Staff could provide would be appreciated! I am hoping to run a large ettercap encounter in a couple weeks.

What's incomplete about the ettercap noose?


Sorry, should have been more specific.

The noose lists a CMB modifier, but no CMD, making it impossible for a PC to escape from it with a CMB check of his or her own.

Additionally, the noose entry doesn't specify what actions the noose takes if it 'grapples' an opponent. I assume it deals damage, but there is no indicator as to how much base 'unarmed' damage a noose can deal, or what its effective Strength score is.

The whole trap is sadly unusable as-is (sadly because it's a really cool and nasty trap idea). Any thoughts or insights, Mr. Jacobs?


It is just a CR1 trap, I guess that it just inmobilizes the PC (plus other penalties that come with the grappled condition) so the Ettercaps have some bonus against him/her.
+15 CMB is a lot for CR1, even if it's a single hit trap, it means that the check to maintain the grapple is +20, so against a 1st level PC it can't fail to maintain the grapple.
I would suposse that the trap has +0 Dex, giving it a CMD of 25, yet very difficult.

Or maybe the grapple lasts 1 round only.


I dunno, nothing indicates to me that it's a one-round, one-shot, catch-and-release trap. I think the trap might be CR 1 because escaping is as simple as having an ally just cut the damn web.


Come to think of it, the hardness and hit points of the 'noose' might be a good thing to clarify as well.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Rake wrote:

Sorry, should have been more specific.

The noose lists a CMB modifier, but no CMD, making it impossible for a PC to escape from it with a CMB check of his or her own.

Additionally, the noose entry doesn't specify what actions the noose takes if it 'grapples' an opponent. I assume it deals damage, but there is no indicator as to how much base 'unarmed' damage a noose can deal, or what its effective Strength score is.

The whole trap is sadly unusable as-is (sadly because it's a really cool and nasty trap idea). Any thoughts or insights, Mr. Jacobs?

Well... first of all, it's important to remember that space is always at a premium in a monster entry. Being able to save 1 line of text often makes a huge difference. So we try to be as succinct as we can.

For the noose trap, it's best to just treat the noose as a plain old web (since that's what it's made of), and rules for creature webs can be found in the universal monster rules on pages 305–306. Those rules spell out that it's a DC 10 + 1/2 the creature's HD + Con modifier check to break free from a web (or in this case a noose); which in an ettercap's case is a DC 15 Strength check (but at a –4 penalty if you're caught in the noose). The web itself has 4 hp and DR 5/— (as indicated by the end of the web entry).

For escaping the noose, that's the same as escaping ropes: the DC set up in Escape Artist for this is the binder's CMB + 20, which would mean that escaping the noose is a DC 35 Escape Artist check. This goes the same for grapple checks, as spelled out on page 200. So basically, the noose's CMD is 35. Would have been handy, I agree, to spell that out though.

Obviously, it's a better plan to try to break free or cut free from the noose than wriggle out.

And the noose doesn't do anything other than grapple an opponent. It does no damage at all. It just grabs you and holds you in place so you can't move. The whole point of the trap is to catch you and keep you from escaping so that the ettercap can come get you.

So I hardly think the trap's unsuable at all. All the rules are in the game to work out the checks you need, it's just that we didn't reprint all the information.


Well, since OP now has his answer, I'm gonna dare a minor threadjack and ask James to weigh in on another trap-related question:

What skill checks, if any, are involved for PC's wanting to place and conceal traps? For example the Bear Trap and Trespasser's Boot from Adventurer's Armory.

Also, are there any rules covering making improvised traps and snares, such as digging a pit trap in the forest or setting up a simple snare using twine/rope and a bent branch?

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