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Wow. This is a rip roaring good time!
The conversion appears correctly executed, but based on flawed assumptions. So no, no cheating. Sounds like you made a table call backed up by some relevant rules.
The player is pissed, obviously, but taking his ball and going home seems a bit much. Especially given there are some workable options on the table. But hey, if he isn't having fun then don't play.
It could be clearly pointed out in the PFSOP that all Season 0 refs to MM pg XXX mean that you need to look it up on the d20srd.org if you don't have said MM, and there is no superseding Bestiary entry. Easy enough for v2.3.
Inherent failing of the PFSOP and Season 0 resulting in the end of the world? Hardly :)
I think I should clarify something. I think the word "cheat" is having different conatations for different people. I equate cheating to someone who breaks the rules, with or without intent. So someone that actively breaks the rules is still cheating just like someone that accidentally gave themselve a +6 str item instead of a +2. They are still breaking the rules (can you tell I have a lawful personality). My biggest gripe with all of this is the ambiguity in the Season 0 mods allowing HUGE swings in difficulty.
Now the GM did stat the centipede up correctly by the beastiary's rules, but he did not know he should have used the 3.5 versions. I tried to tell him this through emails and the only reason I did not just drop it was I did not feel it was right to burden the other players at the table to spend 5,450 gp for this mistake, since my character had no gp at that time. I read the boards daily since I have GM'd multiple games a week for years now. Perhaps it is because I GM and read the boards so much that I realized a CR 2 monster doing 2d6+10 is way out of the ballpark for the norm. I had been planning to start GM'ing up at the store once my finals were done for the semester. I also never mentioned who my GM was, he did that on his own.
I am personally very happy with the retirement of Season 0 mods as I now see the confusion they can bring to the game table. I also concurr with Andrew that there should be some mention of how to handle Season 0 mods in the actual PDF and not just leave it up to the GMs to read the FAQs.
Lastly, my wizard has 13 con, and 17 hit points. He was planning to put a point into con right after that game since he would have hit level 4.
If you do not have the wealth to raise your own character (thus avoiding burdening the other players), do you have the PA to do so?
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I think I should clarify something. I think the word "cheat" is having different conatations for different people. I equate cheating to someone who breaks the rules, with or without intent. So someone that actively breaks the rules is still cheating just like someone that accidentally gave themselve a +6 str item instead of a +2. They are still breaking the rules (can you tell I have a lawful personality). My biggest gripe with all of this is the ambiguity in the Season 0 mods allowing HUGE swings in difficulty.
Perhaps you should use a more commonly understood definition of the word? After reading this I thought to myself, "Self, do you have some kind of strange understanding of the word cheat?" It's been known to happen. So I check my friend here. And find that this definition fits my understanding of the word. Cheating implies intent. A mistake or honest misunderstanding is just that (and appears to be the case here).
There is a huge difference in these two thing to me. It's all in the intent.
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Don't forget you can sell your entire equipment for half to pay as much as you can too. Yes, it sucks, but at least you'll be alive. Second option is if you have 16 PA, which at level 3 is unlikely, but definitely possible, you can have your faction cast raise dead on you. Even if you can't afford the restorations yet, it's still worth it.
P.S. Cheat is a very loaded word, and while you may not think of it having as having very negative connotations, in general practice it does. I'd steer clear of it in this instance.
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IMHO This discussion should be tabled until Josh is able to review it post his vacation.
Guthwolf, everyone can see that mistakes have been made, but the common interpretation of cheating implies intent, and from the earlier posts its pretty clear that the mistake was innocent.
Still a mistake was made and at this point its out of the GM's and you hands and in Josh's.
We don't want to lose GMs or players. So it would be best to let this lie for the time being.
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Look up cheat Guthwulf. It has very negative connotations. Someone who misinterprets the rules is not a cheat. And the fact is, strictly speaking, the rules were not misinterpreted; the current version of the Guide does not cover conversions and the GM cannot be expected to know something that was posted as a ‘rule’ or guideline in a messageboard forum. You’ve also called your GM a ‘bad GM’ (your words) and accused him of tinkering with the rules. I think an apology is in order.
Also, you do realise that with 17 hit points and 13 con, your character could conceivably have been killed by a crit by the creature as written? Yes it would take some good rolls, but that is not inconceivable.
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Cpt-kristov beat me to the punch.
Andrew, I can understand your position, but that adventure was written and developed for the D&D 3.5 game. Despite claims to the contrary, the Pathfinder rules are not so transparent as to allow GMs to use the Pathfinder edition of any given Monster X and expect it to fit nicely into the same role that the D&D 3.5 Monster X does. Some creatures (Hill Giant) are much easier fights in Pathfinder. Some, like your Giant Centipedes, are tougher.
There are other differences, of course. But monster stat blocks are one of the heaviest areas of alteration.
If you don't have a D&D 3.5 Monster Manual --and that's reasonable, given that the book has been out of print for, what, over two years-- then I would recommend sticking with Season 1 scenarios from Pathfinder Society.
Ok, good advice.
I am a cheating GM?
I want that question answered by as many different people a possilbe.
Andrew, to me the OP sounds petulant. I wouldn't worry about it. I also agree that it isn't reasonable to quote a messageboard thread and expect you to know about that. You made your call, and as the DM you are entitled. If something is important, it should be in the OFFICIAL guidelines, not in an obscure thread. You didn't cheat, the OP needs to grow up a bit, and everything is fine with the world.
I agree that is wasn't cheating, and but can also understand the feeling when a character is lost. But if everyone works towards a solution, then you have to suck it up and move on.
I think the GM is now better informed in regards to converting season 0 scenarios, and the player should understand if one of his characters dies again, to discuss it with the group he plays with (at the end of the session, versus just walking away) to avoid letting his displeasure ferment.
We can see the result, as evidence of this post, what occurs when you walk away to discuss these issues later via email or discussion boards. Any personal connection is lost, and it is much easier to make accusations from either parties viewpoint.
It will be harder for either party to back down now, or agree on amiable terms, since this is being discussed on a public forum.
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Ok, good advice.I am a cheating GM?
I want that question answered by as many different people a possilbe.
I didn't post that quote as any verdict, more as a FYI for later sessions that you run. As Herald states, it isn't cheating, but an honest mistake. Same as when you forget that an attack is a touch attack, or that a character has point blank shot, which ends up saving the party. In my example, you weren't pulling punches, but it affected the outcome of the fight, in the original example, you weren't trying to kill anyone, but it afffected the outcome of the fight.
I think the thread is a good thing to have, as it illustrates to Josh what needs to be added to Guide to OP until the season 0 scenarios are either retired or converted to PFRPG. I think that attitude and using the board to vent (on both sides) made it a tense thread, but no, I do not think it was cheating as the relivant definition of cheat is: "2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game" (bold mine). As you were ignorant to the one post I pointed out, you did your best to make the centipedes correctly and didn't deliberately break any rules.
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To answer the pending question: No, the DM did not cheat. He made what he considered to be the best ruling in the absence of any tangible rules. It's a ruling that many of us, if put into the same situation, would make as well.
This incident highlights one of the main problems facing the hobby today, in my opinion...the demonizing of DM fiat. In previous editions, the DMs word was law. If the DM made a rules that went against the RAW, well, it was his world and his game, and players largely accepted this.
But somewhere along the way, the role of the DM degenerated into rules encyclopedia. DM fiat began to be looked down upon. The fact that each succeeding edition has codified more and more rules has worsened the situation. What used to be the realm of DM adjudication is now covered by various tables and charts.
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To answer the pending question: No, the DM did not cheat. He made what he considered to be the best ruling in the absence of any tangible rules. It's a ruling that many of us, if put into the same situation, would make as well.
This incident highlights one of the main problems facing the hobby today, in my opinion...the demonizing of DM fiat. In previous editions, the DMs word was law. If the DM made a rules that went against the RAW, well, it was his world and his game, and players largely accepted this.
But somewhere along the way, the role of the DM degenerated into rules encyclopedia. DM fiat began to be looked down upon. The fact that each succeeding edition has codified more and more rules has worsened the situation. What used to be the realm of DM adjudication is now covered by various tables and charts.
While I basically agree with most of what you wrote, I think organized has other rules applying GM fiat than a home game.
To the OP:Seriously, what do you expect?
As far as I can say from what you and your gm wrote, your GM made a mistake. He did not cheat (that implies the intention to screw you or your group).
If he is telling the truth, and at least you didn't contest his post, he apologized for his mistake.
He tries to rule the situation according to the PS rules, so you get raised without losing anything (except perhaps a few xp for the rest of the game)
Without apporval he cannot just rule that the ressurection is completely free, but I'm sure from what he did up to this point that he will do so in a heartbeat if he gets the approval.
Do you expect him to shoot himself in the name og gm's honor?
Do you expect him to get to his knees and beg for your forgivenes?
Do you expect a GM to be some kind of superhuman that will not make any mistake ever?
If your answer to any of these questions is 'yes' you probably won't be happy playing any kind of pen and paper rpg.
If not, accept his apology and get over it.
As for the other players' characters loss of money: If they don't ask you to intervene on their behalf, don't do it. I'm sure those players are as able to speak for themselfs as you are.
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IMHO This discussion should be tabled until Josh is able to review it post his vacation.
Guthwolf, everyone can see that mistakes have been made, but the common interpretation of cheating implies intent, and from the earlier posts its pretty clear that the mistake was innocent.
Still a mistake was made and at this point its out of the GM's and you hands and in Josh's.
We don't want to lose GMs or players. So it would be best to let this lie for the time being.
This is an interesting take to me. Why is there any rule adjudicating waiting for Josh to return?
The outcome of Josh coming back and doing anything other than backing up the table call pretty much undermines the roll of the GM and the table judgment. The logic outlined by the GM stands pretty much on it's own and many others have chimed in that they would have used the same resources at hand in the same way. To publicly reverse him due to some heated, ummm persuasion, opens up a flood gate for unhappy players to second guess the GM at every turn.
And that would be fun for the whole family! :)
This incident highlights one of the main problems facing the hobby today, in my opinion...the demonizing of DM fiat. In previous editions, the DMs word was law. If the DM made a rules that went against the RAW, well, it was his world and his game, and players largely accepted this.
That may be fine in a normal game, but this is the Pathfinder Society and Joshua J. Frost is THE GM and his word is the law, as he has personally said in other threads. You do not go against RAW without his permission because, in Organized Play, the experience is supposed to be as close to the same for every player as possible.
This is an interesting take to me. Why is there any rule adjudicating waiting for Josh to return?The outcome of Josh coming back and doing anything other than backing up the table call pretty much undermines the roll of the GM and the table judgment. The logic outlined by the GM stands pretty much on it's own and many others have chimed in that they would have used the same resources at hand in the same way. To publicly reverse him due to some heated, ummm persuasion, opens up a flood gate for unhappy players to second guess the GM at every turn.
Whichever decision Josh makes in this will be a decision that covers all of PFS and not just this situation. And if people want to play in a way that goes against the Guide or any official postings he makes in this forum, then why are they playing OP to begin with? Now that would be a clear case of cheating.
One bad DM and you're character for months is gone.
Calling someone a cheater and a bad DM over something like this?
BANNED
FOR
LIFE
Or three months.
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I try to make all my rolls in the open when I GM. Sometimes it isn't story favorable to do so, but all my combats are out in the open for all to see. Players learn real quick that I have a higher calling ...to fate ...and that can be crueler than any cheating, but I am never questioned when it comes to trust issues.
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That may be fine in a normal game, but this is the Pathfinder Society and Joshua J. Frost is THE GM and his word is the law, as he has personally said in other threads. You do not go against RAW without his permission because, in Organized Play, the experience is supposed to be as close to the same for every player as possible.
Nobody went against RAW in this. The scenario had a large version of a creature, with no stats provided in either the mod or Bestiary. The Bestiary DID have rules for making a regular sized creature large, and this is the route the GM chose to take. Honestly it was the best decision, with the information that he had at the time. Not everybody reads these threads, it's not a requirement for GMing PFS game.
I honestly don't know that I would even say the GM made a mistake here, though I will concede the point to the majority in the thread.
I will say that he did NOT cheat or go against RAW. So, I think the odds of Josh coming in and hand-waiving the PCs death are pretty slim. When Wizards get stuck in melee range, bad things happen. It's a sad fact of life.
Venture-Lieutenant, Arizona—Tucson
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Add me to the group who feels that it wasn't a mistake on the GM's part. While the situation might not have worked out as well as he would have hoped, having the monster roll a crit just as the wizard was in its sights sounds more like bad luck than bad planning. A CR 3 centipede sounds like a fair fight for a third-level party, even if the original was CR 2.
Add me to the group who feels that it wasn't a mistake on the GM's part. While the situation might not have worked out as well as he would have hoped, having the monster roll a crit just as the wizard was in its sights sounds more like bad luck than bad planning. A CR 3 centipede sounds like a fair fight for a third-level party, even if the original was CR 2.
Spoilers about this fight if you have not played this scenario yet.
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First off, I'd like to clarify my earlier post. Yes, I realize that this was PFS Organized Play, and as such there have to be rules that override even the GM fiat. That being said, in this instance, no such rules existed, at least in a place that all GMs would reasonably be accepted to find. The GM faced a situation where no rules existed, and he used his judgement to provide what he considered to be the closest approximation to the correct ruling. THIS IS WHY GMs EXIST IN THE GAME. He was not cheating, and he didn't make a mistake. He made a ruling, and a squishy wizard got squished. Character death is part of the game. Sometimes it's a slightly (or not so slightly) unbalanced encounter....sometimes it's bad luck...sometimes it's a bad decision on the part of a player...sometimes it's a meat-grinder of an adventure. From what I can tell, it sounds like it would have been fairly plausible for the squishy wizard to have gotten squished even if the GM had used the "correct" conversion.
Wizards caught up in melee often die (especially when critted).
Death of a character isn't the end but an opportunity to play something else! :-)
This is going to sound a lot more negative than I intended, but hey, whatever...
The thing is...
(and this is a real issue I think in the gaming community as a whole)
that generally people react way too harshly on perceived sleights, and are unable to apologize for it. In our group, generally, we apologize if we say something and later it seems we were mistaken or out of line. This tread should be really simple:
a) my GM cheats, any ideas what I should do?
b) what happened
c) explanation what happened
d) GM explains his part and maybe: Sorry, I've made a mistake. I didn't know this until just now...
e) Oh, I see, sorry I overreacted. We'll work something out.
end thread.
Simple, no? Let's all just... get along, shall we?
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IMHO This discussion should be tabled until Josh is able to review it post his vacation.
Guthwolf, everyone can see that mistakes have been made, but the common interpretation of cheating implies intent, and from the earlier posts its pretty clear that the mistake was innocent.
Still a mistake was made and at this point its out of the GM's and you hands and in Josh's.
We don't want to lose GMs or players. So it would be best to let this lie for the time being.
This is an interesting take to me. Why is there any rule adjudicating waiting for Josh to return?
The outcome of Josh coming back and doing anything other than backing up the table call pretty much undermines the roll of the GM and the table judgment. The logic outlined by the GM stands pretty much on it's own and many others have chimed in that they would have used the same resources at hand in the same way. To publicly reverse him due to some heated, ummm persuasion, opens up a flood gate for unhappy players to second guess the GM at every turn.
And that would be fun for the whole family! :)
I made the post because emotions seemed to be running high and I think that Josh can make an impartial call.
Judging by the way you mention that Josh can undermine a GM proves my point. Personally, I think that this going forward should be between Josh and the two individuals involved via email. None of this really needs to go forward publicly. And of course, this is just my opinion.
This is going to sound a lot more negative than I intended, but hey, whatever...
The thing is...
(and this is a real issue I think in the gaming community as a whole)
that generally people react way too harshly on perceived sleights, and are unable to apologize for it. In our group, generally, we apologize if we say something and later it seems we were mistaken or out of line. This tread should be really simple:
a) my GM cheats, any ideas what I should do?
b) what happened
c) explanation what happened
d) GM explains his part and maybe: Sorry, I've made a mistake. I didn't know this until just now...
e) Oh, I see, sorry I overreacted. We'll work something out.end thread.
Simple, no? Let's all just... get along, shall we?
Again, this is fine for a home game, but not for a structured environment like PFS. The GM can't just go "oops, I made a mistake, your character is not really dead," especially since the player did not try to get it straightened out before the end of the scenario. If he had stuck around til they were done playing and talked with the GM about it, then maybe something could have been done about it. But once he got up and left and then talked with the GM later, there were only two choices, using gold or PA for a raise dead.
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I made the post because emotions seemed to be running high and I think that Josh can make an impartial call.
Judging by the way you mention that Josh can undermine a GM proves my point. Personally, I think that this going forward should be between Josh and the two individuals involved via email. None of this really needs to go forward publicly. And of course, this is just my opinion.
I'm in full agreement here. The message board was a bad place to deal with the whole problem in the first place.
I'm not saying there was a good alternative solution (apart of e-mailing Josh and he was on holiday) available - but a lot of the post just further stoke the whole emotions of the two main parties involved.
There are several very valid issues discussed in this thread - but maybe a few of these might be best discussed in a new thread.
I'm currently thinking on alternative options for the future how such issues could be dealt better with. If someone else beats me to the post - feel free - and take pressure off this thread.
I don't think there is much new to discuss the original issue - but the thread certainly highlights a few issues - one of them - how best address issues that arise while participating in a PFS game. Another one - the role of the GM.
But I feel discussing it in this thread is just too personal as whatever I would say here gets applied to either the player or the GM while all I might say should be meant in general.
Thod
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Again, this is fine for a home game, but not for a structured environment like PFS. The GM can't just go "oops, I made a mistake, your character is not really dead," especially since the player did not try to get it straightened out before the end of the scenario. If he had stuck around til they were done playing and talked with the GM about it, then maybe something could have been done about it. But once he got up and left and then talked with the GM later, there were only two choices, using gold or PA for a raise dead.This is going to sound a lot more negative than I intended, but hey, whatever...
The thing is...
(and this is a real issue I think in the gaming community as a whole)
that generally people react way too harshly on perceived sleights, and are unable to apologize for it. In our group, generally, we apologize if we say something and later it seems we were mistaken or out of line. This tread should be really simple:
a) my GM cheats, any ideas what I should do?
b) what happened
c) explanation what happened
d) GM explains his part and maybe: Sorry, I've made a mistake. I didn't know this until just now...
e) Oh, I see, sorry I overreacted. We'll work something out.end thread.
Simple, no? Let's all just... get along, shall we?
See my post that overlapped with this one. I agree - you can't just go oops. But this leads to a general issue.
a) what do you do when a mistake (either GM or Player or both and this could be a rule violation, misinterpretation etc.) happens during play.
b) what do you do in case player and GM don't get to an agreement.
But maybe we should discuss this elsewhere as othervice all gets interpreted in context of this case.
Thod
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a) what do you do when a mistake (either GM or Player or both and this could be a rule violation, misinterpretation etc.) happens during play.
b) what do you do in case player and GM don't get to an agreement.Thod
Well, there is always the Gentlemens' Solution
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Wizards caught up in melee often die (especially when critted).
Death of a character isn't the end but an opportunity to play something else! :-)
I've been lurking, but this comment just hit home - badly. I'm only able to play occasionally. It may take me a year to make 4th level. To lose my character because of a GM mistake is hard - really hard. Yay, I'd be mad and want something changed. Now I'm not saying the GM was right or wrong, or the player was right or wrong.
What I expect in a DM ... all rolls are public unless it's a special roll like a bluff check, etc. Let the dice fall where they may. If as a player I rolled my dice behind a screen I'm sure I'd get a few bad looks and maybe even called a cheater.
I'm not sure where I saw it, but I thought Josh stated in a thread that Season zero scenarios were not to be changed except to add the combat maneuver stuff. If critter A is in the 3.5 monster manual and in the Beastianary they could be completely different. The monsters in the season zero scenarios are 'balanced' for 3.5 character. In general, Pathfinder characters are a little tougher and so the season zero scenarios are a little easier. Changing/updating a monster could have unforeseen consequences.
I don't know how the online reporting goes or even if this particular game was reported. Does the dm report a characters death? If not, can the player and the dm agree that both made mistakes and the game 'just didn't happen' ?
I've been in Living Greyhawk games where the dm messed up big and we didn't find out until long afterwords. In one, I barely survived. One player lost his character because of the mess-up.
Also, one comment that I believe is completely wrong is the actual cost of raising a character. Spending all or half your gold, especially if you need to sell equipment at 50% value, really puts your character behind the gold/equipment/level curve. Often, you can never catch up.
-Swiftbrook
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I am going to toss my two coppers in. I was one of the other players at the table. I think that Andrew Phillips, the DM , did a good job running the adventure. Three of us other players at the table offered to foot the bill for the cost of a raise dead spell.
Yes it was a tough battle. Sometimes the dice turn on you. Sometimes bad things happen.
For example, last Thursday I was running my character Fatum Aedituus Veneficus through Scenario 18 : the trouble with secrets at tier 8-9. My character is a sixth level cleric of Pharasma / wizard (necromancer) 3/3. At the end of the module, we were facing the end monster and a summoned monster as well. My character has the repose domain. I realized if I used the gentle rest domain ability, my character would be able to stagger our undead opponent for 4 rounds. I thought the risk was worth it. I moved my character in, and he took an attack of opportunity for 11 points of damage from the summoned monster and missed with his touch attack on the undead end monster. The monster turned on my character and hit him twice, doing enough damage to kill my character. I suppose casting consecrate before hand was enough to honk it off. Luckily I had enough cash to pay for a raise dead spell. Sometimes things don’t work out. I took a risk and it didn’t pan out. I stayed for the rest of the game, and looked up spells and rules for the Dm and other players. Even thought my character was visiting his godess Pharasma, in her halls, there was still something I could do at the table.
I disagree that the DM cheated. I will have to admit I don’t entirely understand the subtleties of converting monsters from 3.5 to Pathfnider. He may have made a mistake, although, from reading his post, that doesn’t seem like a mistake, It makes sense to me that you would use the rules in the Pathfinder Bestiary to advance a monster, especially if all of the players are using pathfinder characters.
Andrew wasn’t going after us. He felt bad after the main posters character died. As it was mentioned earlier three of us, myself included offered to foot the bill for the raise dead.
This evening I played in another game run by Andrew. Again I think he did a good job, and I had a good time and I had fun. I think the other players at the table enjoyed themselves too.
Well those are just my two coppers for what they are worth.
GM's have to make calls sometime to keep the games moving. Mistakes are made. And if you're going to play these type of games for decades then one had best get used to bad calls, wrong calls, mistaken calls, accidental calls, etc.. by even by the best of GM's.
Additionally you need to get used to new editions of a game changing your spells, special abilities, etc...
GM's have to make calls sometime to keep the games moving. Mistakes are made. And if you're going to play these type of games for decades then one had best get used to bad calls, wrong calls, mistaken calls, accidental calls, etc.. by even by the best of GM's.
Additionally you need to get used to new editions of a game changing your spells, special abilities, etc...
My only input would be regarding "that was too much for a CR2 monster damage-wise" is to mention the 3.5 CR 1 orc warrior...who has a great axe and a +2 str bonus, critting for 3d12+9 damage. (28 average/45 max)
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My only input would be regarding "that was too much for a CR2 monster damage-wise" is to mention the 3.5 CR 1 orc warrior...who has a great axe and a +2 str bonus, critting for 3d12+9 damage. (28 average/45 max)GM's have to make calls sometime to keep the games moving. Mistakes are made. And if you're going to play these type of games for decades then one had best get used to bad calls, wrong calls, mistaken calls, accidental calls, etc.. by even by the best of GM's.
Additionally you need to get used to new editions of a game changing your spells, special abilities, etc...
This reminds me of the demise of a paladin in my campaign.
He was level 8 or 9 - he tried to save a few silver pieces and it went downward from there until he had was thrown off the boat they were traveling to have make his way by foot.
To teach him a lesson of the value of a few silver coins I tried to teach him a lesson. He was wandering with a trader and his wife. So I threw in a not-so-random encounter with four lowly orc - one for the trader, one for his wife - two for the paladin.
The intention was that he would get the exact amount he tried to safe in money as thank-you for two lives saved. Boy was I wrong. The other members of the group - not being able to do anything - did ask to roll for the orks.
The paladin needed a 3 to hit - and a single hit would kill an orc. The orcs needed a 15 or 16 to hit. So the paladin went defensive. Too bad that the 3 and 4 he rolled no longer hit. And it also didn't prevent the two criticals.
When he got hit a third time (no crit) he was down - without ever dealing a single point of damage. To bad he had seperated from his party one full day of travel before - it took a week before the rest of the group missed him and his body never was found.
Yes - crits and freak dice rolls are a letal combination.
Thod
Wow.
I figured I'd have some major issues to fix/clarify/correct when I got back, but this just takes the cake. Here we go:
1. Cheating is a ridiculous word in this context. The GM did NOT cheat. In fact, I'm removing the word "cheat" from the thread title. THAT's how ridiculous I think it's usage here is.
2. The GM made a simple mistake based on me not adding the language from the boards clarifying the conversion issue to the 2.2 update. I have notes added to my 2.3 draft right now that say to include this information. I'll clarify again here: please don't ad hoc your conversions. Just use the free info Vic linked to above and use the 3.5 monsters. There's a reason I'm retiring or converting all Season 0 scenarios--but it's going to take time.
3. Even though the GM made a simple mistake, it's still entirely possible for a low hit point squishy wizard to get killed pretty much all the time. I play wizards almost exclusively in PRPG and I've lost a fair share of them. It's part of being a squishy character. Live with it.
4. I can certainly appreciated feeling a bit heated after character death. Yeah, you might feel an overwhelming wave of anger and sadness at the loss of something you've put so much time into. But after you feel those emotions, take a deep breath (I mean a REALLY deep breath, maybe count back from 10) and then remember that this is a GAME. GAMES ARE FUN. You died. So what? Make another character and have fun!
5. In addition to #4, there's this: everyone at the table wanted to help raise your character and get on with adventuring! Why did you bail the table when you died? You could be raised by the table (even before the next encounter!) and you could've possibly finished playing the scenario or at least had some resolution to your PC's death before the group wrapped up play. Next time: remember it's a game, don't run away when you die, and wait to see what the table will do to help you.
6. Lastly, the GM controls his/her table. I will not override decisions at the table unless I feel they're gross abuses of rules or actions done with malice. Nothing of the kind has happened here. However the GM wishes to handle this within the Society rules is his choice.
I'll add here, too, that I think (a) that the player owes the GM an apology and (b) that this conversation should have gone like this:
Player: I think my GM made a mistake. He [explanation].
Community: Yeah, he might have made a mistake. He probably didn't know about Josh's clarification.
Player: Oh, okay, cool. I'll talk to him and see how we should resolve this.
DM: I was totally unaware of that! I'll see what I and the other players can do to resolve this.
THE END
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Joshua,
Thank you for taking the time to respond. I am running the Frozen Fingers of Midnight on Monday. From what I understand. I should simply take the encounters as written and add a CMB and CMD.
Thansk
Fatum Aedituus Venificus
Enjoy, that and Silent Tide were my favourite Season 1 adventures
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Enjoy, that and Silent Tide were my favourite Season 1 adventures
Funny you should say that, I ran Silent Tide for Fatum and the rest of the group Monday past. I'm a sucker for role playing Grand Master Torch I have great fun tormenting players with him.
Thanks to Josh and everyone else from this thread I've learned a lot about running "public" games and will be able(I hope) to provide a better experience for everyone in the future.
And while I have some attention...
What other PFS scenario's have an appearance by Grand Master Torch?
What other PFS scenario's have an appearance by Grand Master Torch?
The Many Fortunes of Grandmaster Torch and Delirium's Tangle.
He said he used the Pathfinder SRD for the stats but had toned them down from what they were originally. I go to the site, and it says "This is fan created".
I just wanted to point something out here, because there has been considerable confusion:
The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PRD for short), is the official, Paizo-run, online rules reference containing the Open Game Content from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook and Bestiary. It is always kept in sync with the most recently issued errata.
The d20 PFSRD is an unoffical, fan-run site that also contains the core rules for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. However, it also contains Open Game Content from other Paizo Sources, fan conversions, and unofficial errata (usually sourced from messageboard posts by Paizo staff members).
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The d20 PFSRD is an unoffical, fan-run site that also contains the core rules for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. However, it also contains Open Game Content from other Paizo Sources, fan conversions, and unofficial errata (usually sourced from messageboard posts by Paizo staff members).
Incidentally we just ran into a case where the rules on the d20 site diverge significantly from the PRD. The Summon Monster spells on the d20pfsrd site show the normal dog as the first level summons but the PRD site shows a riding dog. For PFS the riding dog is (at least currently) the correct summons.
FWIW I use the d20pfsrd version with the normal dog for my home game but stick with the PRD version for PFS.