Oh, my, the ultimate sin on the intertubz: having an opinion. :D
No, not at all. The ultimate sin on the intertubz is having an opinion yet beleiving it to be fact.
Also, good trolling for implying that D&D rogues are anything like WoW rogues. Almost got me there. And just in case you want to try and argue that fallacious point:
Flanking: Everyone doing melee damage in WoW flanks, to some degree because monsters can't use as many defenses from the rear (logical), but more importantly, because most cleaving attacks come from the front of the monster. Monsters with tail attacks (Onyxia) are a big NO NO to flank fully. D&D rogues flank because the creature is distracted by having its attention divided, rendering them vunerable to cheap shots, dirty tricks, and other forms of sneaky attacks, a very different situation.
Extra damage when enemy is in a vunerable situation: Hmmm, several specs and abilities give this, Prey on the Weak, Backstab, etc. Yet these are either passive bonuses based on how badly hurt the enemy is, or positional bonuses based on having freinds, a target dummy, or sapping. D&D rogues have no mechanics based on enemy HP, no ability like Sap, and we already covered flanking.
Bah, not even going to waste anymore time on this.
Not to forget, the monk probably needs nerfing - after achieving about 75 in the DPR Olympics.
Fighter vs Rogue in combat:
The typical fighter
- deals 10% to 20% more damage
- has 10 to 20% more AC
- has 25% more HP
- has about 30% more (combat) orientated feats to open options like bullrush, grapple, disarm, and so forth
If your fighter is human and happens to like combat expertise; then the AC will increase substantially, and the room is open for about 5 skill points per level. Along with some handy traits to unlock certain class skills it'll be easy to be about as good at two to three "rogue" skills. Not counting the massive feat surplus on the fighter.
Finally neither rogue nor fighter have a decent willsave - but the fighter is more likely to overcome the typical debuffs thrown out by casters and monsters in combat (at least the ones that are Fortitude relevant).
|
If Sneak Attack was only allowed in the more traditional situation, such as the rogue is successfully oh... say... SNEAKING, this would be a non-issue at my game table. But since they changed the rules to allow "Sneak" Attack every time a foe is flanked as well as any of dozens of situations where the target has lost its Dex bonus to AC? Well, that's a seismic shift in the balance of combat. A shift which didn't make sense in the gaming we do at my table, considering that combat is very much not the primary focus of what we do during our weekly game sessions.
Can you list these "dozens of situations" that you mention when sneak attack works please?
Still waiting...
And if combat isn't the primary focus why get all worked up about a key class ability which all about combat?
As I posted in mine, I think it's because outside combat, his rogue is "The Man" and with sneak attack, he is also inside combat, and his fighter is getting less love.
|
|
I'm seeing a pattern that's telling me that combat isn't too important in your sessions, and that's cool. But I'm also seeing that you don't like that the rogue can, with his skill point allocation, be amazing outside combat, and also amazing (by your account) inside...
Hey, nice reply. :)
The reasoning is because the rogue has a lot of spotlight moments in the game session. Not sure about other groups, but in ours the rogue is the guy up front walking down the dungeon corridor, he gets the description of the room first, his player is the one asking the questions first off about something described, he's interacting with the world more than almost anyone else through those aspects plus his contributions to the party's success with his trap detection and disarming, he's the guy who finds (or fails to find) the secret doors, ...
However that's intended, I'll take it sincerely. That how I roll...pun, nailed it.
Anyway, I think now that it's been cleared up a bit more, people can bring up things that might help your situation (not that you're asking for it or feel you need it, but we posters are always inclined to help whether or not it's wanted ;-))
Wraith and Noir kinda ninja'd what I would have suggested for helping the fighter outside. But just because of skills, or lack thereof, doesn't mean your fighter(s) can't do things outside of combat. You say your games are less combat, and like I said, that's cool. I actually prefer it myself. Nothing says you can't give the fighter who roleplays out a scenario or something really well a +x in-character bonus on their check. Yes, I know there's no listed 'in-character' bonus, but why not add to the game instead of taking away, a la sneak attack?