Despite(or perhaps because of) it's multi-cultural cast, I'm a lot more eager to go see it in theatres.Odd thing to say...
I'm referring to those who take too great of an interest in the Norse gods due to aryan pride reasons. It's a little bit like why I wouldn't go over to a complete stranger's house to play W40K- some people look at the Ultramarines(and to a MUCH lesser extent my beloved Imperial Legions) and see something that isn't there.
The new trailer has me back to hopeful again.
I get the feeling that I'll be going into this movie the same way I went into the first X-Men movie, muttering under my breath 'please, don't suck, please, don't suck...' :)
I did that for Fellowship of the ring, and that turned out ok..
of course, I also did that for Phantom Menance..and we know how that turned out
The new trailer has me back to hopeful again.
I get the feeling that I'll be going into this movie the same way I went into the first X-Men movie, muttering under my breath 'please, don't suck, please, don't suck...' :)
Didn't work, did it? ;-D
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Didn't work, did it? ;-DThe new trailer has me back to hopeful again.
I get the feeling that I'll be going into this movie the same way I went into the first X-Men movie, muttering under my breath 'please, don't suck, please, don't suck...' :)
As an X-Men movie, yeah it sucked. As a Wolverine: Featuring the X-Men movie, it was not half bad.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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The new trailer has me back to hopeful again.
I get the feeling that I'll be going into this movie the same way I went into the first X-Men movie, muttering under my breath 'please, don't suck, please, don't suck...' :)
I did that for Fellowship of the ring, and that turned out ok..
of course, I also did that for Phantom Menance..and we know how that turned out
We do. "Hey, that was pretty good. A few lame bits, but quite enjoyable on the whole."
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Huh, really? The first movie didn't seem that centralized to me. Wolverine was somewhat of a focal point, but the movie seemed to be more diversified than that. (Count me among the people who hate X-men 3 though)As an X-Men movie, yeah it sucked. As a Wolverine: Featuring the X-Men movie, it was not half bad.Didn't work, did it? ;-DThe new trailer has me back to hopeful again.
I get the feeling that I'll be going into this movie the same way I went into the first X-Men movie, muttering under my breath 'please, don't suck, please, don't suck...' :)
The problem that X-Men suffered from is that it was always planned as a trilogy and so they were setting up things for the next two movies and so never quite payed off in the first movie. This is why it had a very scatted feel to it. Bryan Singer apparently could not figure out how to make the film self contained and set up new movies at the same time, so he just did the latter. That is also the reason that Wolverine was so central to the plot, because the Weapon X story was already planned as the central story for X2. The problem that X3 suffered was that it was meant to be the final part of a trilogy and it wasn't. Instead they ended up with a new creative staff then the first two and the new guys decided they did not want to do the Phoenix story that was planned and instead do a Days of Future Past type story that never quite panned out. So again, the movie ended up feeling very scattered and crappy.
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Huh, really? The first movie didn't seem that centralized to me. Wolverine was somewhat of a focal point, but the movie seemed to be more diversified than that. (Count me among the people who hate X-men 3 though)As an X-Men movie, yeah it sucked. As a Wolverine: Featuring the X-Men movie, it was not half bad.Didn't work, did it? ;-DThe new trailer has me back to hopeful again.
I get the feeling that I'll be going into this movie the same way I went into the first X-Men movie, muttering under my breath 'please, don't suck, please, don't suck...' :)
+G
loved 1 & 2, hated 3,
hell wolverine origins was schlock but I was able to say afterwards "well, it's nowhere near as good as 1 & 2, but at least it isn't as bad as 3 was."
Hated 'em all, myself. But, for some reason, I have a reputation as someone who doesn't like anything. ;-)
Hated 'em all, myself. But, for some reason, I have a reputation as someone who doesn't like anything. ;-)
psst, you forgot to do a product placement for haterade ;P
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I don't know if to laugh or cry at This.
He's a freaking god people. Deal with it.
Hated 'em all, myself. But, for some reason, I have a reputation as someone who doesn't like anything. ;-)psst, you forgot to do a product placement for haterade ;P
Whoops. Silly me.
Ah. Refreshing, even in this holiday season. Three holiday themed wraparound bottles are now available for a limited time only. Enjoy FHDM Haterade responsibly.
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I don't know if to laugh or cry at This.
He's a freaking god people. Deal with it.
Funny, I never got the idea that Black Panther was rabidly anti-white. But more to the point, hate groups never make sense except to other haters.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Funny, I never got the idea that Black Panther was rabidly anti-white. But more to the point, hate groups never make sense except to other haters.I don't know if to laugh or cry at This.
He's a freaking god people. Deal with it.
I know there was a recent unpopular run of BP where, if he wasn't 'kill whitey' he was 'frak whitey'. Things like inviting western leaders to a trade summit to announce he wasn't going to trade with any of them, withholding a cure for cancer from the world, etc. They were very poorly received, and tainted BP for a lot of people. I hate Black Panther for different reasons.*
Aside
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Funny, I never got the idea that Black Panther was rabidly anti-white. But more to the point, hate groups never make sense except to other haters.I don't know if to laugh or cry at This.
He's a freaking god people. Deal with it.
I know there was a recent unpopular run of BP where, if he wasn't 'kill whitey' he was 'frak whitey'. Things like inviting western leaders to a trade summit to announce he wasn't going to trade with any of them, withholding a cure for cancer from the world, etc. They were very poorly received, and tainted BP for a lot of people. I hate Black Panther for different reasons.*
Aside
** spoiler omitted ***** spoiler omitted **
Just looked at the link. As we all know, I am an overweening purist, and I prefer the source material to be held up above almost everything else. However, there is no WAY that the director did not intentionally cast Elba to stick a thumb in the eye of white supremacists. It cracks me up to no end.
You've got to admit it seems to be a rather odd casting choice, given the origins of the myth. That said though, those people are going way overboard lol.I don't know if to laugh or cry at This.
He's a freaking god people. Deal with it.
The anger about it doesn't even make sense.
Ignoring that there's historical evidence of darker skinned and black Vikings, ignoring that the Vikings as a culture - much like most ancient cultures - didn't have the concept of "race," ignoring that anyone could be assimilated or brought in to be a "Viking," and even ignoring that Scandinavians weren't considered a "white" race by the vast majority of Europeans for a long time...
...It ignores the fact that the Marvel Norse "gods" aren't really Norse gods in the first place. They're aliens from alternate dimension that gives them access to all their super powers.
Quite frankly, I'm happy for this change. Not only does it piss off skinheads, it keeps them out of the theater when I go to watch the movie. Win/win.
You've got to admit it seems to be a rather odd casting choice, given the origins of the myth. That said though, those people are going way overboard lol.I don't know if to laugh or cry at This.
He's a freaking god people. Deal with it.
The anger about it doesn't even make sense.
Ignoring that there's historical evidence of darker skinned and black Vikings, ignoring that the Vikings as a culture - much like most ancient cultures - didn't have the concept of "race," ignoring that anyone could be assimilated or brought in to be a "Viking," and even ignoring that Scandinavians weren't considered a "white" race by the vast majority of Europeans for a long time...
...It ignores the fact that the Marvel Norse "gods" aren't really Norse gods in the first place. They're aliens from alternate dimension that gives them access to all their super powers.
Quite frankly, I'm happy for this change. Not only does it piss off skinheads, it keeps them out of the theater when I go to watch the movie. Win/win.
I'm glad to hear it's not just me who was worried about the skinhead quotient that might be attracted to the film.
@Matthew Morris: You know, I wouldn't have a problem with the Storm/Black Panther thingy if they hadn't decided to derail every other love interest she's ever had. Bishop went mad, Forge went mad and died, even Kurt (who flirted with her in a couple issues) got killed. Wolverine (who also flirted with her in a couple issues)is lucky he has Plot Armor.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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@Matthew Morris: You know, I wouldn't have a problem with the Storm/Black Panther thingy if they hadn't decided to derail every other love interest she's ever had. Bishop went mad, Forge went mad and died, even Kurt (who flirted with her in a couple issues) got killed. Wolverine (who also flirted with her in a couple issues)is lucky he has Plot Armor.
Yeah. I enjoyed Bishop when he appeared, and always loved Forge.
Wolverine was dead to me when they 'revealed' the back story.
@Matthew Morris: You know, I wouldn't have a problem with the Storm/Black Panther thingy if they hadn't decided to derail every other love interest she's ever had. Bishop went mad, Forge went mad and died, even Kurt (who flirted with her in a couple issues) got killed. Wolverine (who also flirted with her in a couple issues)is lucky he has Plot Armor.Yeah. I enjoyed Bishop when he appeared, and always loved Forge.
Wolverine was dead to me when they 'revealed' the back story.
I cried. And then I laughed so hard, I cried.
Just looked at the link. As we all know, I am an overweening purist, and I prefer the source material to be held up above almost everything else. However, there is no WAY that the director did not intentionally cast Elba to stick a thumb in the eye of white supremacists. It cracks me up to no end.
There are plenty of non-racist Asatruar.
To intentionally rewrite someone's cultural beliefs to suit your own vision of self-righteousness is a stunning act of moral arrogance.
In fact, it's exactly what the Christian monks did when they revised parts of the Sagas, and other peoples' cultural legacies.
Just looked at the link. As we all know, I am an overweening purist, and I prefer the source material to be held up above almost everything else. However, there is no WAY that the director did not intentionally cast Elba to stick a thumb in the eye of white supremacists. It cracks me up to no end.
There are plenty of non-racist Asatruar.
To intentionally rewrite someone's cultural beliefs to suit your own vision of self-righteousness is a stunning act of moral arrogance.
In fact, it's exactly what the Christian monks did when they revised parts of the Sagas, and other peoples' cultural legacies.
Then, your thoughts on the the philosophies and practices of the more racist Asatruar(I'm assuming this means worshippers of the norse pantheon)? I get that its offensive on a certain level to do this, but I really don't see many(or any) non-racist Asatruar getting up in arms over the practices of the more racist ones, particularly the violent and racist ones.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I get that it's offensive on a certain level to do this, but I really don't see many(or any) non-racist Asatruar getting up in arms over the practices of the more racist ones, particularly the violent and racist ones.
Our mileage differs, Freehold DM. I'm active in the SCA in the upper midwest, and ther are a number of Aesir-worshipping pagans in the mix. To a person, they grimace whenever the topic comes up of racist yahoos appropriating their religious inconography.
The best analogy I can come up with would be the reaction good Chrstians reveal when someone brings up the "Westboro Baptist Church" goon squad.
Just looked at the link. As we all know, I am an overweening purist, and I prefer the source material to be held up above almost everything else. However, there is no WAY that the director did not intentionally cast Elba to stick a thumb in the eye of white supremacists. It cracks me up to no end.
There are plenty of non-racist Asatruar.
To intentionally rewrite someone's cultural beliefs to suit your own vision of self-righteousness is a stunning act of moral arrogance.
In fact, it's exactly what the Christian monks did when they revised parts of the Sagas, and other peoples' cultural legacies.
Except the Marval norsemen are literally space aliens.
They aren't the actual norse gods. They're magical aliens from another dimension. What, that's fine, but black dude is taking it too far? They can be from outer space, just not Africa?
I get that it's offensive on a certain level to do this, but I really don't see many(or any) non-racist Asatruar getting up in arms over the practices of the more racist ones, particularly the violent and racist ones.Our mileage differs, Freehold DM. I'm active in the SCA in the upper midwest, and ther are a number of Aesir-worshipping pagans in the mix. To a person, they grimace whenever the topic comes up of racist yahoos appropriating their religious inconography.
The best analogy I can come up with would be the reaction good Chrstians reveal when someone brings up the "Westboro Baptist Church" goon squad.
I'm glad that they dislike the racists who are potentially hijacking their religion. However, (and this is just me speaking personally here), I(and those who look like me) can't afford to simply tsk at the racist ones- they really do want me in the dead book. It's a little different from the Westboro folks, who, while utterly disgusting, are not part of a semi-trained private army that's looking for any excuse to spill some blood.
Just looked at the link. As we all know, I am an overweening purist, and I prefer the source material to be held up above almost everything else. However, there is no WAY that the director did not intentionally cast Elba to stick a thumb in the eye of white supremacists. It cracks me up to no end.
There are plenty of non-racist Asatruar.
To intentionally rewrite someone's cultural beliefs to suit your own vision of self-righteousness is a stunning act of moral arrogance.
In fact, it's exactly what the Christian monks did when they revised parts of the Sagas, and other peoples' cultural legacies.
Except the Marval norsemen are literally space aliens.
They aren't the actual norse gods. They're magical aliens from another dimension. What, that's fine, but black dude is taking it too far? They can be from outer space, just not Africa?
COnsidering the amount of weird conspiracy theorist the-Egyptians-stole-space-technology-from-Nubians-and-black-people-are-the- master-race-from-outer-space stuff I encountered growing up, this made me guffaw.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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*shrug* If I can live with George Burns*, Alanis Morresette, and Morgan Freeman playing my G-d, you all can grin and bear Hemidall.
(heck if you read PADs Supergirl run, G-D gave Kirby the 'Blake slamming the cane down to become Thor' rift. :) )
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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@Matthew Morris: You know, I wouldn't have a problem with the Storm/Black Panther thingy if they hadn't decided to derail every other love interest she's ever had. Bishop went mad, Forge went mad and died, even Kurt (who flirted with her in a couple issues) got killed. Wolverine (who also flirted with her in a couple issues)is lucky he has Plot Armor.Yeah. I enjoyed Bishop when he appeared, and always loved Forge.
Wolverine was dead to me when they 'revealed' the back story.
I have quite happily kept myself ignorant of the any of the "big reveals" about Logan's TRUE past. I've heard rumors, but I'm with Cypher from the Matrix on this one:
"You know what I've learned? Ignorance is bliss."
Except the Marval norsemen are literally space aliens.
They aren't the actual norse gods. They're magical aliens from another dimension. What, that's fine, but black dude is taking it too far? They can be from outer space, just not Africa?
"Magical aliens from another dimension" is at least an approximation, if a goofy one, to what most people think of as the definition of "gods", and fits in the pseudo-sci-fi milieu of Marvel Comics.
"Black dude" is an insertion to serve the agenda of people who think THEY can "improve" the authentic historical beliefs of an historical people.Like Freehold DM says, it certainly appears intentional. That's the real issue, because it places their attitude squarely in the camp of every holier-than-thou, moralistic preachy busybody from time immemorial. It's I-know-better-than-you arrogance.
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I like how the boycott site makes a point of referring to Stan Lee by his Jewish birth name of Lieber, which he hasn't used for like fifty years. 'Cause it's very, very important to note that his folks were Jewish, in the midst of one's white supremacist ranting, apparently.
Eh. Heimdall's played by a black dude. No big. The norse gods were multi-racial (Thor and Loki both being half-giant), and Asgard was populated by two different group of racial dieties (Odin and his Aesir, and the Vanir, including Frey and Freya).
The comic book Asgardians have included Fandral, whose ethnicity appears to be 'Errol Flynn clone' (perhaps even, gasp, French) and not even a tiny smidgen Nordic, and Hogun the Grim, who appears to be one of Gengis Khan's mongol raiders, and also doesn't appear even fractionally Norse.
Given how little play Heimdall gets in the comics (or the myths, for that matter) they could have made him an asian transvestite, for all I care. While Heimdall, Baldr and Freya are my top three Asgardian gods, I'm not going to a movie called 'Thor' to quibble over how random Asgardian number 23 looks.
Thor, Loki and Odin are the one's I'm most concerned with them getting right, and, from the trailer, I'm not hugely impressed with what we've seen of Loki and Odin. Perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised with their respective performances when I get to see more of them.
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...the new guys decided they did not want to do the Phoenix story that was planned and instead do a Days of Future Past type story that never quite panned out.
Er, how exactly did X-Men 3 bear ANY relation to Days of Future Past? X3 may not have been what was originally planned, but it was far closer to a Dark Phoenix storyline than to a Days of Future Past one.
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...the new guys decided they did not want to do the Phoenix story that was planned and instead do a Days of Future Past type story that never quite panned out.Er, how exactly did X-Men 3 bear ANY relation to Days of Future Past? X3 may not have been what was originally planned, but it was far closer to a Dark Phoenix storyline than to a Days of Future Past one.
The idea that the story was supposed to be an introduction to Days of Future Past was a statement made by one of the writers in an interview I read in the New York Times. He said that they were instructed to set up the next movie as doing a story where Kitty comes back in time to try and stop some horrible disaster that creates DoFP. That was why they did the Sentinel battle in the Danger Room and wrote Kitty in as a main character and wrote Rogue out of a major role.
Cyclops was also supposed to play a big role, but when Bryan Singer talked James Marsdan into jumping ship to do Superman Returns, they had to get rid of him to. Nightcrawler and Deathstrike were also supposed to have important, but minor roles but both Alan Cummings and Kelly Hu decided to leave when Singer did. Ultimately, the writer said, they wanted more time to rewrite the script but Fox did not give it to them.
"Magical aliens from another dimension" is at least an approximation, if a goofy one, to what most people think of as the definition of "gods", and fits in the pseudo-sci-fi milieu of Marvel Comics.
Go up to a Christian. Or a Muslim. Or a Hindu. Tell them "Hey, your gods are just magical aliens from another dimension." See how seriously they take you.
"Black dude" is an insertion to serve the agenda of people who think THEY can "improve" the authentic historical beliefs of an historical people.
There is no "authentic historical belief.
You keep missing this. The norse gods in Marvel aren't figuretively aliens, they're literally creatures from another dimension. I'm pretty sure historical authenticity was thrown out at about the same time Thor became a more buff ET.
Like Freehold DM says, it certainly appears intentional. That's the real issue, because it places their attitude squarely in the camp of every holier-than-thou, moralistic preachy busybody from time immemorial. It's I-know-better-than-you arrogance.
Or maybe they're just biting their thumb at the racists. Maybe there isn't some in depth sociological reason for this, it's just "haha let's watch the skinheads freak out."
I mean, hell, Thor is blonde in the movie instead of being red haired. OH MY GOD THE IMPLICATIONS!
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My 2cp:
I could give two shits less who they cast in supporting roles. They got some guy who looks like the Marvel version of Thor, looks like they'll have a pretty decent story that follows along the lines of the comics, and they had Kenneth Branagh directing.
Those things are enough to make me want to see the movie, and not waste my time arguing about casting on the internet.
The only thing strange I find about it, is if the only humans that worship a black space alien/deity, are white humans. Seems to be some strangeness there, I mean why aren't there any black humans worshiping this space alien/deity thing? I mean isn't like the space alien/deity things are restricted to a specific geographical location, right?
It would also be strange if there was only one black space alien/deity while the rest were all white.
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Well there were "Black Vikings" who probably were not sub-Saharan African, but were descended from vikings that interbread with north African and Middle Eastern populations, similar to the Moors of Spain. Some Moorish people have pretty dark skin and the Vikings traveled all over throughout western Europe, Russia, and the Byzantine Empire. There are also Vikings who had ancestry from the Caucus Mountains who have darker skin tones as well.
Well there were "Black Vikings" who probably were not sub-Saharan African, but were descended from vikings that interbread with north African and Middle Eastern populations, similar to the Moors of Spain. Some Moorish people have pretty dark skin and the Vikings traveled all over throughout western Europe, Russia, and the Byzantine Empire. There are also Vikings who had ancestry from the Caucus Mountains who have darker skin tones as well.
But those were in the "Real World", the question is, were they in the "Marvel World"?
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I would like to think so. At least I have not seen anything that says they weren't. My rule with comics is to assume that history has stayed the same unless it has been explicitly shown not to be the case. For example, I accept that George W. Bush was not elected president in 2000 in the DCU because Lex Luthor was. However, unless some one shows that Al Gore, Harold Stark, or Howard the Duck was elected president in 2000 in the Marvel Universe, then the assumption is that George W. Bush was the president then. I know it might be overly logical for comic books but it has served me well so far.
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I don't know if to laugh or cry at This.
He's a freaking god people. Deal with it.
I would love to see the reaction to a black Jesus story starring Will Smith.
This thread makes me shake my head...the best comment I have seen so far is the Norse gods are far from racially pure..did't Loki spawn monsters? Who is more Norse, the Aesir or the Vanir? The dwarves? The Giants?
I am just looking forward to a good summer popcorn movie.
I would love to see the reaction to a black Jesus story starring Will Smith.I don't know if to laugh or cry at This.
He's a freaking god people. Deal with it.
Same, considering White Jesus With Trimmed Beard is far from historically accurate ;p
Personally I've come to picture Jesus looking a lot like Yasser Arafat with a longer beard and corkscrew locks.
And as someone whose ancestors venerated the norse gods as part of their daily life and lives in a country that still shock-full of references to them, let me just say: Heimdal played by Stringer Bell from the Wire? Awesome!!
Admittedly, I'd say the same thing pretty much regardless of the role, but still, it's just a superhero movie, nothing to get upset about - and if it makes some white supremacist guys unhappy... even more awesome.
I would like to think so. At least I have not seen anything that says they weren't. My rule with comics is to assume that history has stayed the same unless it has been explicitly shown not to be the case. For example, I accept that George W. Bush was not elected president in 2000 in the DCU because Lex Luthor was. However, unless some one shows that Al Gore, Harold Stark, or Howard the Duck was elected president in 2000 in the Marvel Universe, then the assumption is that George W. Bush was the president then. I know it might be overly logical for comic books but it has served me well so far.
ACH!! You're getting logic all over my comic mythology!
"Black dude" is an insertion to serve the agenda of people who think THEY can "improve" the authentic historical beliefs of an historical people.There is no "authentic historical belief.
You keep missing this. The norse gods in Marvel aren't figuretively aliens, they're literally creatures from another dimension. I'm pretty sure historical authenticity was thrown out at about the same time Thor became a more buff ET.
Like Freehold DM says, it certainly appears intentional. That's the real issue, because it places their attitude squarely in the camp of every holier-than-thou, moralistic preachy busybody from time immemorial. It's I-know-better-than-you arrogance.Or maybe they're just biting their thumb at the racists. Maybe there isn't some in depth sociological reason for this, it's just "haha let's watch the skinheads freak out."
I mean, hell, Thor is blonde in the movie instead of being red haired. OH MY GOD THE IMPLICATIONS!
Actually... in the mithology, Asgard, Midgard and the other worlds are separated. They are all connected by the Yggdrasyl, but by modern sci-fi standards calling Asgard another dimension is actually accurate.
And Thor has been blond in the comics since the beggining. Lady Sif on the other hand, who is supposed to have literal golden hair, is shown as black haired.
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Devil's Advocate here. I personally have no problem with this relatively minor role going to someone who's not white. But I do think that it is a bit of a double standard...imagine if someone made a movie about African mythology, and cast a white man in the part of a traditionally black god (please note that I know absolutely jack-crap about African mythology). It wouldn't matter if it was a tiny cameo, the race card WOULD get thrown down, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton WOULD start a $#!+storm, and absolutely nobody would defend the casting or imply that the people doing the criticism were the ones who were racist.
In regards to the "Aliens, not Gods" thing...they're aliens who INSPIRED the Norse myths. PoTAYto, poTAHto, in my opinion.