This item costs this much?!


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

Hi guys,

I'm working on a magic item that is basically a compass that always points in the direction of a place that the user has visited before. Basically it acts like Find the Path except the bearer of the compass has to have visited the place at least once.

According to the Magic Items Creation table this item would cost 528,000gp to make?! Holy crap that's more than a ring of wishes! It's more than most magic items! Am I missing something?

My calculations
Spell level (6) x Caster level (11th) x 2000 x 2 (continous use) x 2 (does not take up an item slot) = 528,000gp
Don't know what to deduct because of its limition?

If someone can confirm this is correct/incorrect that would be great.
Reebo


Not to get too deep into it but the guideline is to compare it to items of similar power. 528,000 for what is effectively a magical GPS is obviously too steep.

Zo

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Coupole of things. One, I'd use Locate Object rather than Find the Path as it's operating as a compass pointing in a direction rather than plotting the fastest route. This reduces the spell level to 2nd and the caster level to 3rd.

I'd also make is Use Activated rtather than continuous. It doesan't matter where it's pointing at if no one's looking at it. That removes one of the *2.

This would erduce the cost to 2*3*2000*2=24,000gp which is a much more reasonable price. I might even give a discount owing to the limitation.

But DigMarx is correct. Look up something similar and use that to get an idea of the price.

Scarab Sages

Look at some other items that work similarly... Like a Gem of Seeing and a Lamp of Revealing.

They seem to just use the Spell Level x Caster level x 2000. The compass would be use activated, you have to hold it in your hand to use it, so it wouldn't really count as not taking an item slot.

With that, I come up with 132,000 gp. But you are limiting the use of the spell it is based off of. The spell does not require that you've been to the destination it is guiding you to. I would lower the level of the spell in that case. Even if you lowered it one level that puts your price at around 90,000 gp.

Scarab Sages

Something I missed in the fine print for continuous use. You have to multiply by the duration of the original spell. For 10 mins/level you multiply by 1.5, so your 90,000gp turns into 135,000 gp.

Command word, however, does not have that limitation... and makes a lot of sense for a compass. "Show me the path home."
It would then act for the duration of the spell, as if it were cast.

Then you just have Spell Level x Caster Level x 1800, and if you bump the spell level down a notch you get: 81,000

You could also limit it to 3 times a day or such, taking it down to 48,600 gp

Scarab Sages

Thanks guys I guess it's just one of those magic items that no character would ever make. Locate Object has a very short range making it useless for the purpose of giving my PCs this item.

I was toying with the idea (which I think I've read before) about magic items that "come into existance" in certain situations such as a sword that is used by a hero to kill lots of orcs gains a "+" against orcs after years of use.

In this case I think I'll use a similar reason to justify this item's existance and remove the constuction and market price since logically, no character would make this item and I don't want PCs looking for a buyer for it (even though I could rule no one would be interested)

Thanks again
Reebo


I'd use this:

Homefinder, 12150gp
construct: craft wondrous, teleport, 6075

(5 * 9 * 1800 * 0.3 * 0.5 = 12150)

-teleport as base spell
-command activated
-character must've visited, severe restriction on character: 30% discount
-only direction, not path, significant reduction in spell potential: 50% discount


I'd make it more like a mechanical/magical compass that can be attuned on a certain location. From that moment on, it always points in the direction of its attunement point. It's like a normal compass with one button on it. Press the button to attune it to its current location.

It's kinda like a continuous know direction (0th level), but then with a changeable location (not always north). It will not work across planes though.

Shouldn't cost more than 10k imho. To add flavor to it, you can have it work like a normal compass as well and allow it to be used 1/day to teleport the party w/o error to its attuned location. This will add to the price of course but then it will act like a World of Warcraft heartstone for the party to its base of operations ;-)


Panish Valimer wrote:

I'd use this:

Homefinder, 12150gp
construct: craft wondrous, teleport, 6075

(5 * 9 * 1800 * 0.3 * 0.5 = 12150)

-teleport as base spell
-command activated
-character must've visited, severe restriction on character: 30% discount
-only direction, not path, significant reduction in spell potential: 50% discount

Your math is off. A 30% discount is x0.7, not x0.3. You actually gave a 70% discount for this restriction.


I think the "Does not take up an item slot" restriction is generally only applied to an item that normally would take up an item slot. Like if you made Boots of Speed that work when you simply put them in your backpack, or a Headband of Vast Intellect that works if you keep it in your pocket.

For something like a compass, it wouldn't be an applicable price multiplier. If it were, then we'd have to multiply that price on scrolls, potions, wands, etc.

Liberty's Edge

DM_Blake wrote:

I think the "Does not take up an item slot" restriction is generally only applied to an item that normally would take up an item slot. Like if you made Boots of Speed that work when you simply put them in your backpack, or a Headband of Vast Intellect that works if you keep it in your pocket.

For something like a compass, it wouldn't be an applicable price multiplier. If it were, then we'd have to multiply that price on scrolls, potions, wands, etc.

Scrolls, potions, and wands do take up space: in your hands :P

If the user had to hold the compass, then no, it wouldn't get the *2.

If the compass was essentially a GPS system (i.e. you could leave it in your bag and it would spout off directions), then yeah it's slotless and gets the *2.

...Of course it's your game. Just make up a price that seems fair :D

The Exchange

I'd look at the wayfinder, and compare it in price to some of the more specific wayfinders. I don't have a book on me at the moment. I'll have to look that up when I get home. But I know that these aren't that expensive.

If you watch "Legend of the Seeker", I would assume that you are trying to make something similar to the compass in that show that always points to the "Stone of Tears". However that has the added restriction that only the Seeker can activate it.

Would this compass have a restriction that you have to set the point you want to go back to when you are at that point the first time? Or does it just read your mind and figure out where you are wanting to go? i.e.-would there be a compass for every location you've been to, would you be able to change the location (but have to physically take the compass to that location to change it), or would it just change with a command?


Let's analyze this a bit.

If I am in Sandpoint, and I walk northeast for 5 days and spend another week in that area, not moving far, just encountering monsters and exploring a cave system. Then I break out a normal, ordinary compass that shows me where north is, I can use that compass to figure out which direction will get me back to Sandpoint (southwest). In other words, a boring old compass will get me right back to where I was before.

Your compass doesn't seem to do much more than that, really, although it's easier for any idiot to use with, say, no ranks in Knowldege(Geography). Even a dumb ogre could use your magical compass to find his way home.

So let's magic it up, using the spell that is closest to what a real compass does.

Funkytrip wrote:
It's kinda like a continuous know direction (0th level), but then with a changeable location (not always north). It will not work across planes though.

Bingo.

I also wouldn't call this "Continuous Use". A real compass is not continuous use - try hiking around with a compass in your hand. The needle wobbles all over the place. You have to stop, stand still, open your compass, wait for the needled to wobble around for a while until it comes to a rest. I would make this magical compass work the same way. Which would mean it is merely "Use-activated".

So, the cost is:

0.5 (cantrips count as half a level) x 1 (caster level) x 2,000 (Use-activated) = 1,000 GP for this little gizmo.

The spell required to create this wondrous item is Know Direction, caster level 1.

If you want the price to be higher, Craft Wondrous Item is a feat with a prerequisite of 3rd level, so the crafter must be at least 3rd level, which means his caster level is 3, which changes it to 0.5 x 3 x 2,000 = 3,000 GP base price. However, since Know Direction has no variable effects based on caster level (a 1st level druid gets exactly the same effect as a 20th level druid casting this spell), I wouldn't actually price it like this.


DM_Blake wrote:


So, the cost is:

0.5 (cantrips count as half a level) x 1 (caster level) x 2,000 (Use-activated) = 1,000 GP for this little gizmo.

The spell required to create this wondrous item is Know Direction, caster level 1.

If you want the price to be higher, Craft Wondrous Item is a feat with a prerequisite of 3rd level, so the crafter must be at least 3rd level, which means his caster level is 3, which changes it to 0.5 x 3 x 2,000 = 3,000 GP base price. However, since Know Direction has no variable effects based on caster level (a 1st level druid gets exactly the same effect as a 20th level druid casting this spell), I wouldn't actually price it like this.

I'd mostly agree with that, but I'd probably say that the ability to mark a location is a secondary (related) effect (so that it doesn't just point north). So, toss in an Arcane Mark or something similar that makes an aura and it ups the cost a bit.... but not by all that much. [And yes, since RAW say you can lower your caster level, I'd certainly suggest that the person do that.]


The problem is that, the op stated the item

"Basically it acts like Find the Path except the bearer of the compass has to have visited the place at least once."

This is *not* a compass.

This is a GPS locator directing you to where you need to go- provided you have ever been there before.

Now I'm not sure 135,000 gp is a valid cost for such a trinket but it goes far beyond simply knowing "north" or whatnot. Its also not just a needle pointing a direction.

He said it was supposed to function like Find the Path.

-S


Selgard wrote:

The problem is that, the op stated the item

"Basically it acts like Find the Path except the bearer of the compass has to have visited the place at least once."

This is *not* a compass.

This is a GPS locator directing you to where you need to go- provided you have ever been there before.

Now I'm not sure 135,000 gp is a valid cost for such a trinket but it goes far beyond simply knowing "north" or whatnot. Its also not just a needle pointing a direction.

He said it was supposed to function like Find the Path.

-S

Hmmm, good point. I took the reference to Find the Path to be a bit more fluff, and I went with the OP's statement "basically a compass that always points in the direction of a place that the user has visited before" Which is an entirely different thing than Find the Path.

Example:

**************U
*
*
*
**************P

(U = you, P = place, * = dungeon corridor)

Using my compass version, if you are standing at U in this tiny dungeon (shaped vaguely like the letter "C"), and you want to find P, your magical compass would piont due south. Using a Find the Path solution, the compass would point due west.

That's two different effects, either of which could be inferred from the original post.

Interestinly, one interpretation suggests an item that only Kings can afford and nobody would every buy it or create it for that price, while one interpretation suggests an item that doesn't cost any more than a spyglass and would be equally valuable to any explorer.

I leave it to the OP to decide whether the affordable interpretation is what he wants or not.

The Exchange

Reebo Kesh wrote:

Hi guys,

I'm working on a magic item that is basically a compass that always points in the direction of a place that the user has visited before. Basically it acts like Find the Path except the bearer of the compass has to have visited the place at least once.

Emphasis mine.

As I see it, Spell level 6 x Caster level 11 x 2000 x 1.5 (10min/level duration)= 198,000gp

Now, since you are requiring that they have already visited the location, I would cut the price in half. 89,000gp (still way to high for what it does) For example, you could burn through 54 scrolls of Find the Path before you would spend the same amount.

For me it would be the difference between wanting an item that actually worked as Find the Path or one that just pointed you in a straight line to the location?

EDIT:
You could have it a lot like a Wayfinder where you could replace the ioun stones with new ones that are attuned to individual locations. A basic Wayfinder just points north, but if you were to make it like DM_Blake mentions above with interchangeable stones it could become a hook for future adventures. Maybe they would need to find the stone that points to the location of the fabled treasure of Serpent King. Something I may now add to my game, thanks for bringing this topic up.

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