Didn't Worf come along several years before B5 anyway? Sure they brought him over from TNG after that series ended but he was not a creation for DS9. Besides, Spock predates both and defined that niche for serial sci-fi. Not to mention drawing from many similar characters from before him.
20. Both series involve a character who must deal with the conflict between their alien heritage, and their adopted human qualities (Worf, Delenn)Seriously? I would have to say that these character's are in most sci-fi series!
Right!
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Have you seen the show? That's not a very accurate description of what happened, and in terms of the show having structure its hard to find any show with as many interweaving plots as B5 had. J. Michael Straczynski had the entire series penned prior to filming the first episode, none of this Lost "OMG what now!?!?!?" nonsense.
No, I didn't watch much of the show. I thought I established earlier that I don't watch crap TV shows.
I kid, I kid.
I watched most of B5. It too got a lot better near the end, and yes, I know the whole thing was plotted out from the start and my narrative structure comment was just a barb thrown in to make people froth at the mouth a bit.
But I do find it kind of ridiculous how B5 acolytes claim every minute of the series was written beforehand.
Hogwash.
They recasted almost the entire cast from the pilot. There is NO WAY in God's green earth that JMS planned switching his main actor, either.
I seem to remember that my favorite B5 episode involved a brutal interrogation episode.
Which was of course a ripoff of a ST:TNG Cardassian episode, but hey, who's counting? ;)
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But I do find it kind of ridiculous how B5 acolytes claim every minute of the series was written beforehand.
He may have had a basic outline of where he wanted to go with the story but I highly doubt every script was written before they started filming the pilot. I once worked as an audio intern on a movie and saw how much rewriting was done within just that one project. I can't believe that 7 plus seasons were all written before hand and not changed as they went along.
I seem to remember that my favorite B5 episode involved a brutal interrogation episode.
Which was of course a ripoff of a ST:TNG Cardassian episode, but hey, who's counting? ;)
I loved that episode.
No, I didn't watch much of the show. I thought I established earlier that I don't watch crap TV shows.I kid, I kid.
You're feisty this morning (or what ever time it is where you are), for some reason I liked B5 better than STNG, DS9 and so on, maybe because it wasn't so sleek and "nice".
B5 was rough and messy and morally grey, Earth wasnt the good guy, the Vorlons and the Mimbari weren't the good guys, the Shadows were bad but they were trying to evolve the lesser races.
It addressed politics in no other way I have seen on tv, The Narn started off as the bad guys but became "good guys" we felt sorry for the Centari and their collapsing empire then, we loathed them for their genocide of the Narn.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Although, I have to admit, by the time we reached the end of Voyager the Borg were beginning to feel old hat. Basically it seemed like every time the writers ran out of ideas they said Hey, we haven't done a Borg episode lately. It seemed even more like a crutch when the did a Borg episode for Enterprise.
I actually liked the Enterprise Bog episode for 3 reasons.
1) The tie in to First Contact.
2) That the Enterprise got lucky stopping the borg. For once they were unstoppable and scary again.
3) That it gave another explination to TNG. We'd seen hints that something was eating colonies on the Neutral Zone in Season 1. We get in Enterprise that Q didn't expose the Alpha quadrant to the Borg they were already on the way
That said, I didn't like Voyager's turning them into 'monster of the week' I also didn't like how it became 'The Seven and Doctor show' Jeri Ryan can act, as can Robert Picardo, but there were so many potential storylines lost there.
The best Star Trek monologue ever.
I have to admit, that is one of my favorite monologues.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The best Star Trek monologue ever.I have to admit, that is one of my favorite monologues.
"I can live with that."
Anyone else having seen the actors out of make-up think, "Gee they look better as Cardassians."
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You really want your head to explode? Did the events in First Contact and in Enterprise with the borg actually happen in this timeline? If they didn't, then did Cochran make it to warp on his own?Sounds like the Star Trek version of the Chewbacca Defense.Well, arguably since Old Spock and Nero and his en both existed after the Kelvin incident it means that what happened in the new timeline has not affected what happened in Star Trek Prime. Therefore yes the events of First Contact still occurred. Otherwise the old timeline would have been erased, Nero's crew would have ceased to exist which means he didn't destroy the Kelvin which means the old time line still exists, which means he did destroy the Kelvin which...BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
Begins picking brain bits off the screen.
My theory is that Cochrane either attacks the Vulcans or doesn't in the two timelines. Well the difference between the two timelines is the Enterprise and the Borg getting involved. Before the Enterprise crew talked to Zefram he was in it for the money. They show up and start filling his head with things about the Federation and make sure basically he doesn't kill the Vulcans, thus preserving and creating their own timeline at the same time.
And Sisko/DS9 best Star Trek there is. The whole show beginning to end was an operatic masterpiece.
And Sisko/DS9 best Star Trek there is. The whole show beginning to end was an operatic masterpiece.
I disagree.
It may be a generational thing, but IMHO The Original Series was the best.
There were stretches where I felt that DS9 dragged.
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I disagree.It may be a generational thing, but IMHO The Original Series was the best.
There were stretches where I felt that DS9 dragged.
Which was about every episode of TOS. Don't get me wrong, for its time it was a great show, and it certainly broke a whole lot of ground, but the things that it spawned are far greater than the show itself was. The Original Series was plagued by awful writing and trite storylines (many of which were lifted from somewhere else). It was all crazy anomalies and such terrible ethnocentrism that it shows why military captains generally shouldn't be in charge of making first contact with a new nation or culture.
TOS was a bunch of random sci-fi tropes thrown together episode after episode, DS9 was a story beginning to end, and the long term development of the characters (especially Dukat, Garak, Kira, Damar, Bashir and Nog) brought an amount of depth to the show TOS never even attempted to achieve.
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DS9 had one advantage over B5. Right next to Sisko's chair, there was a big shiny RESET button that he pushed quite frequently. Not as frequently as other Star Trek series, but he still mashed on the thing fairly often.
Sinclair, Sheridan, and Lochley had to deal with the consequences of not only their own actions, but the consequences of all those that had gone before.
Have you seen the show? That's not a very accurate description of what happened, and in terms of the show having structure its hard to find any show with as many interweaving plots as B5 had. J. Michael Straczynski had the entire series penned prior to filming the first episode, none of this Lost "OMG what now!?!?!?" nonsense.
No, I didn't watch much of the show. I thought I established earlier that I don't watch crap TV shows.
I kid, I kid.
I watched most of B5. It too got a lot better near the end, and yes, I know the whole thing was plotted out from the start and my narrative structure comment was just a barb thrown in to make people froth at the mouth a bit.
But I do find it kind of ridiculous how B5 acolytes claim every minute of the series was written beforehand.
Hogwash.
They recasted almost the entire cast from the pilot. There is NO WAY in God's green earth that JMS planned switching his main actor, either.
I seem to remember that my favorite B5 episode involved a brutal interrogation episode.
Which was of course a ripoff of a ST:TNG Cardassian episode, but hey, who's counting? ;)
Well it worked, I was frothing... heh.
I don't think every detail was plotted out, of course. I'm a fanboy, just not the rabid variety. There were definitely some unexpected things that shook up the plan... Talia's actor quitting the show, the show getting cancelled then saved, the switching out of the first captain (I liked the second captain much more, myself). I absolutely hated the fifth season of the show, and the spinoff Technomancer show was hideous.
Alright, moving away from B5... Anyone been watching Fringe or Warehouse 13? I haven't seen them yet, but I'm interested...
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Well it worked, I was frothing... heh.
I don't think every detail was plotted out, of course. I'm a fanboy, just not the rabid variety. There were definitely some unexpected things that shook up the plan... Talia's actor quitting the show, the show getting cancelled then saved, the switching out of the first captain (I liked the second captain much more, myself). I absolutely hated the fifth season of the show, and the spinoff Technomancer show was hideous.
Alright, moving away from B5... Anyone been watching Fringe or Warehouse 13? I haven't seen them yet, but I'm interested...
Tried watching the first episode of Fringe, it just didn't click with me. Neither did Lost for that matter. Heroes on the other hand has me hooked, though sometimes it gets on my nerves (Lyle couldn't make thanksgiving dinner because he had school!?)
The Original Series was plagued by awful writing and trite storylines (many of which were lifted from somewhere else).
This I do not completely agree with. I thought that the writing was - in general - quite good.
In any event, worse then Voyager or Enterprise ?
... such terrible ethnocentrism that it shows why military captains generally shouldn't be in charge of making first contact with a new nation or culture.
That was not Star Trek. That was the 1960s.
"Ethnocentrism" was the norm. Yes, it really was a "White Man's World" in those days.TOS was a bunch of random sci-fi tropes thrown together episode after episode, ...
Actually, most of the elements The Original Series used weren't tropes yet.
... DS9 was a story beginning to end, and the long term development of the characters (especially Dukat, Garak, Kira, Damar, Bashir and Nog) brought an amount of depth to the show TOS never even attempted to achieve.
That is how Television was done before the 1990s. Shows were meant to be "episodic." Networks did not want to be resticted on the order that the series had to be shown in.
Film in any other manner, the series would not have been bought, and there would be no Star Trek of any kind.
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I actually prefer his independent comics work, namely "Midnight Nation, and "Rising Stars",
Hell yes, those two books were pretty awesome.
As for B5, I sometimes have the heretical notion that JMS being forced to compress the season four and five stories into season four made it a better season (at the expense of making season five less-than-stellar, since he pretty much pulled it out of his butt).
And, terrible heresy, I liked the earlier seasons of DS9, pre-Worf, the ones everybody else thinks are boring, better than the all-war, all-the-time seasons.
"Well, the big problem with this new ship the Defiant is that it's too powerful and we had to cover it with big overpowered weapons to keep it from tearing itself to pieces... Cue the Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, etc. saying, 'This, by you, is a *problem?* Please, sell me your 'problem' ships. I'll take 50,000 of them, and paint them green.'"
I actually prefer his independent comics work, namely "Midnight Nation, and "Rising Stars",Hell yes, those two books were pretty awesome.
As for B5, I sometimes have the heretical notion that JMS being forced to compress the season four and five stories into season four made it a better season (at the expense of making season five less-than-stellar, since he pretty much pulled it out of his butt).
And, terrible heresy, I liked the earlier seasons of DS9, pre-Worf, the ones everybody else thinks are boring, better than the all-war, all-the-time seasons.
"Well, the big problem with this new ship the Defiant is that it's too powerful and we had to cover it with big overpowered weapons to keep it from tearing itself to pieces... Cue the Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, etc. saying, 'This, by you, is a *problem?* Please, sell me your 'problem' ships. I'll take 50,000 of them, and paint them green.'"
I would like to put in an order for 150,000 of those ships please. Painted midnight blue.
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This I do not completely agree with. I thought that the writing was - in general - quite good.In any event, worse then Voyager or Enterprise ?
That was not Star Trek. That was the 1960s.
"Ethnocentrism" was the norm. Yes, it really was a "White Man's World" in those days.TOS was a bunch of random sci-fi tropes thrown together episode after episode, ...Actually, most of the elements The Original Series used weren't tropes yet.
That is how Television was done before the 1990s. Shows were meant to be "episodic." Networks did not want to be resticted on the order that the series had to be shown in.
Film in any other manner, the series would not have been bought, and there would be no Star Trek of any kind.
I do believe I started by saying
Don't get me wrong, for its time it was a great show, and it certainly broke a whole lot of ground, but the things that it spawned are far greater than the show itself was.
Voyager and Enterprise I would put on roughly the same level as TOS if comparing them side by side as shows without the time gap as a factor. They both had a few gem episodes but overall were rather boring.
And there were many TOS episodes that were simply a pulp story or book with the Star Trek skin slapped on top. You don't get so much of that in TNG/DS9.
I do believe I started by saying
Don't get me wrong, for its time it was a great show, and it certainly broke a whole lot of ground, but the things that it spawned are far greater than the show itself was.Voyager and Enterprise I would put on roughly the same level as TOS if comparing them side by side as shows without the time gap as a factor. They both had a few gem episodes but overall were rather boring.
And there were many TOS episodes that were simply a pulp story or book with the Star Trek skin slapped on top. You don't get so much of that in TNG/DS9.
And I think that this may be the root of our disagreement. We are simply looking for different things from Star Trek.
The very things that that you are finding "boring" are the very things I am tuning in for. ;D
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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And, terrible heresy, I liked the earlier seasons of DS9, pre-Worf, the ones everybody else thinks are boring, better than the all-war, all-the-time seasons.
"Well, the big problem with this new ship the Defiant is that it's too powerful and we had to cover it with big overpowered weapons to keep it from tearing itself to pieces... Cue the Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, etc. saying, 'This, by you, is a *problem?* Please, sell me your 'problem' ships. I'll take 50,000 of them, and paint them green.'"
I liked DS9, in part, because it was an ensamble piece. I liked O'Brian (who was the first TNG import) because he was the one I identified with the most. I liked the bits about Bajoran culture and Cardassian culture, and I liked the bit with the prophets.
DS9 changed to a war series, and I liked it, but it wasn't the same. I was happy that Michael Dorn was added to the ensamble and it didn't become 'Deep Space Worf' I did miss Terry Farrel's Dax though. I've seen Nicole de Boer in other things and liked her, it's just Ezri bothered me (wish they'd had the testicular fortitude to add another female cast member and brought the Dax symbiont back in a male body).
Besides, who didn't chuckle at "Fire all odd numbered torpedos."
As to the Defiant, I looked at it as a subtle statement on the warrior nature of humanity. The Klingons revel in it, the Romulans see subterfuge as an art. The Humans are "We aren't fighters, but if we were, well, look what you made us do."
(Plus, the image of the Defiant opening up on the Borg cube in First Contact still makes me smile)
Unsourced Voyager rant
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It's always interesting the 'what might have been's.'
The original plan, as I understand it, was for Ro Laren to be the 'bridge' character between Next Gen and DS9, but she wasn't available, and so O'Brian was the bridge, and Kira Nerys was the Bajoran. (Given how much I grew to love Kira, that was a benefit, although I'm on the other side of the fence from Matt in that I never could stand O'Brian or his painful marital issues with Keiko, which never failed to make her look shrewish and him doltish, like unfunny versions of the Married, With Children couple.)
B5 also benefitted from uncontrolled circumstances, as Sheridan was, IMO, a million times more interesting than Captain Cardboard, and I liked Talia Winters *far* more than Lyta Alexander (although Talia left and Lyta came back, eventually). Sure, JMS had to completely rewrite the story background to account for Sinclair, his 'chosen one,' leaving the show, but he did so creatively, showing that the man can indeed juggle under pressure.
I did miss Terry Farrel's Dax though. I've seen Nicole de Boer in other things and liked her, it's just Ezri bothered me (wish they'd had the testicular fortitude to add another female cast member and brought the Dax symbiont back in a male body).
+ a meeelion space bucks to all of that. Jadzia was awesome, strutting around the place like the 'old man' that Sisko still called her. Ezri was a strange, fluttery, frail thing, not helped by her wide-eyed childish look, and I just did not ever feel that she was even faintly related to the other Dax's we saw.
Plus, Trill are supposed to A) swap genders, when not being shuffled into a new body on the down-low to hide the fact that one of them was a serial killer, and B) avoid taking up a life too similar to their previous life, with Dax even being criticized for having associations with Sisko in two consecutive lives!
Dax being Dax, s/he probably could have made it back onto the station, in a new life as a civilian pilot, merchant or the commander of a Trill military ship assigned to DS9 to help prepare the Trill for impending nastiness as the Dominion War encroaches on their systems, etc. without too much fudging of the line, given the dire circumstances facing the Alpha Quadrant (and the sense of reverence that an older symbiont like Dax is afforded).
They at least made a point of not having Dax come back as acting exactly like Jadzia, or shoving her into the same position (although it was awful convenient that Dax found a Trill who had just graduated Starfleet to inhabit and was available for a posting to DS9...).
Dax coming back as a dude would have messed with Worf and Bashir, 'though, and I don't think that the writers wanted to go there, since that was the theme of the very first Trill appearance (Beverly's boy-crush coming back as a woman).
It's always interesting the 'what might have been's.'
The original plan, as I understand it, was for Ro Laren to be the 'bridge' character between Next Gen and DS9, but she wasn't available, and so O'Brian was the bridge, and Kira Nerys was the Bajoran. (Given how much I grew to love Kira, that was a benefit, although I'm on the other side of the fence from Matt in that I never could stand O'Brian or his painful marital issues with Keiko, which never failed to make her look shrewish and him doltish, like unfunny versions of the Married, With Children couple.)
B5 also benefitted from uncontrolled circumstances, as Sheridan was, IMO, a million times more interesting than Captain Cardboard, and I liked Talia Winters *far* more than Lyta Alexander (although Talia left and Lyta came back, eventually). Sure, JMS had to completely rewrite the story background to account for Sinclair, his 'chosen one,' leaving the show, but he did so creatively, showing that the man can indeed juggle under pressure.
I did miss Terry Farrel's Dax though. I've seen Nicole de Boer in other things and liked her, it's just Ezri bothered me (wish they'd had the testicular fortitude to add another female cast member and brought the Dax symbiont back in a male body).
+ a meeelion space bucks to all of that. Jadzia was awesome, strutting around the place like the 'old man' that Sisko still called her. Ezri was a strange, fluttery, frail thing, not helped by her wide-eyed childish look, and I just did not ever feel that she was even faintly related to the other Dax's we saw.
Plus, Trill are supposed to A) swap genders, when not being shuffled into a new body on the down-low to hide the fact that one of them was a serial killer, and B) avoid taking up a life too similar to their previous life, with Dax even being criticized for having associations with Sisko in two consecutive lives!
Dax being Dax, s/he probably could have made it back onto the station, in a new life as a civilian pilot,...
Besides another dude would have made the sausage quotient a bit too high.
I can dig #2, if you don't like the guys, you don't like the guys. #1 was for me a nice nod to continuity that few movies and shows tend to do. Star Wars, for example, seems to have undergone a HUGE period of technological stagnation. Plus I like the fact that early Enterprise missions were more akin to cowboys and indian shows than sci-fi. I like my space rough and tumble.
For me, it was a couple of problems:
They were trying not to be "better" then the technology of The Original Series. Most people give the TOS a pass on the now "dated" technology because it was actually made in the Late 60s. (Same with the gender descrimination - since it really was forward looking at the time.)
By the time of Enterprise, I was really tired of Berman/Braga worldview. Voyager should not have been made, so Enterprise definitely should not have been made.
Kind of...Firefly-esque?
I'm unwilling to let your Klingon ship destroy Deep Space Nine, especially the last couple of seasons.
Sorry!
Agreed, the Dominion war was some fantastic Sci-fi... I rate it up there with Seasons 2-4 of Bab5 and the First 2 Seasons of BSG and ALL of Farscape as some of the best Sci-fi produced for TV, I of course will gladly provide the Red Matter to Nuke the Voyager experience with the exception of a couple of the characters that was a lagging show by far...
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A lot of the Dominion War stuff produced some of the best sci-fi material of all time.
I'd like to point out in particular:
Paradise Lost/Homefront
In the Pale Moonlight
Inter Arma Enem Silent Leges (probably did that wrong but it was something like that)
The Siege of AR-558 (with Bill Mumy!)
And those were interspersed with some awesome light-hearted episodes of which TNG had very few (mostly Q episodes), TOS had one (Trouble With Tribbles) and the only Voyager one I can think of is Message in a Bottle.
DS9 however had
Trials and Tribbleations
Badda-Bing Badda-Bang
One Little Ship
Take Me Out to the Holosuite
Profit and Lace
Who Mourns for Morn?
The Magnificent Ferengi
and of course
Little Green Men.
The broke it up in a way that really paced the show well. I'll admit when I was first watching it on TV as a teenager and only catching a few episodes here and there I didn't really get into it. When it came out on DVD however and I watched it beginning to end in many many marathon sessions I was hooked. I had seen the episode where Jadzia dies and it didn't really affect me back then, but I really cried when I saw it again. Her and Julian had become by far my favorite characters.
Edit: OMG I forgot Our Man Bashir, such an awesome episode "You're a spy and you live here? I joined the wrong intelligence agency"
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I did miss Terry Farrel's Dax though. I've seen Nicole de Boer in other things and liked her, it's just Ezri bothered me (wish they'd had the testicular fortitude to add another female cast member and brought the Dax symbiont back in a male body).
+ a meeelion space bucks to all of that. Jadzia was awesome, strutting around the place like the 'old man' that Sisko still called her. Ezri was a strange, fluttery, frail thing, not helped by her wide-eyed childish look, and I just did not ever feel that she was even faintly related to the other Dax's we saw.
I'd have to disagree. The more we learned about Kurzon, the more evident it became that Jadzia herself was a non-entity who's entire personality was washed away completely, becoming nothing more than Kurzon 2.0.
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The more we learned about Kurzon, the more evident it became that Jadzia herself was a non-entity who's entire personality was washed away completely, becoming nothing more than Kurzon 2.0.
I kinda agree, and that's what I thought was so subversively fun about the character. She was a knockout four-alarm babe with extra hot on top of the hot, and, in essence, playing a man. Sisko never treated her like a woman, let alone a hottie, calling her 'old man.'
Pretty much every time she strutted into a room, straddled a chair or assumed a macho role or tone in a scene, it was like one of those Anime characters that is so hideous it's cute, conflicting flavors causing a sense of frission. Seven of Nine was a four alarm babe, but you never felt like it was *wrong* to find her attractive. Jadzia, who, at her core *was* a man, acted like a man, walked like a man, talked like a man, left the funky 'am I wrong for finding the transvestite hot?' feeling behind.
Lots of shows play with expectations this way, juxtaposing sex scenes with bloody fight scenes (the movie Excalibur having a classic example), or portraying younger characters in subtly (or very unsubtly) sexual roles or situations (Mathilda and Leon's relationship in The Professional), etc. to play on that sense of 'wrongness' to heighten the emotional effect on the audience. Really, it's the essence of comedy, to say something provocative and / or offensive and elicit a sudden burst of emotion.
Jadzia was one big walking 'Wrong Way' sign, and I kinda loved her for it.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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And those were interspersed with some awesome light-hearted episodes of which TNG had very few (mostly Q episodes), TOS had one (Trouble With Tribbles)
Only one? I'd add:
Mudd's WomenI, Mudd
The Naked Time
A Piece of the Action
I feel like there might be more, but those are the ones that come to mind. For the number of episodes aired, that's a decent proportion.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The more we learned about Kurzon, the more evident it became that Jadzia herself was a non-entity who's entire personality was washed away completely, becoming nothing more than Kurzon 2.0.I kinda agree, and that's what I thought was so subversively fun about the character. She was a knockout four-alarm babe with extra hot on top of the hot, and, in essence, playing a man. Sisko never treated her like a woman, let alone a hottie, calling her 'old man.'
<snip>
Jadzia was one big walking 'Wrong Way' sign, and I kinda loved her for it.
I don't think it was a complete take over, more a 'blend' For every time Sisko called her 'old man or Dax' Kira called her 'Jadzia' She did enjoy female things, etc. That being said, it was clear that it was Dax that was more amused by Bashir's continued flirting than Jadzia.
And while it may well be that Dax was attracted to Worf first (since the facination/kinship/etc with Klingons seems to have transended the host) I think it was Jadzia that fell in love with Worf. (That and while Dax may have enjoyed seeing a young viril Kang again, I think Jadzia had more on her mind than a 'friendly visit')
That said, Sisko and Kira both treated Jadiza Dax the way I wish GBL characters would be treated, reacting to the person they see, not making the orientation the focus of the character.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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And those were interspersed with some awesome light-hearted episodes of which TNG had very few (mostly Q episodes), TOS had one (Trouble With Tribbles)Only one? I'd add:
Mudd's Women
I, Mudd
The Naked Time
A Piece of the ActionI feel like there might be more, but those are the ones that come to mind. For the number of episodes aired, that's a decent proportion.
The first one I thought of was The Way to Eden. Come on, Space Hippies.
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So Wil Wheaton has appeared on The Big Bang Theory twice now and I am really loving the way he has been portrayed. The rivalry between him and Sheldon as well as the way they are making him into a twisted evil mastermind is hilarious. I hope to see more of him on the show and would even like to see him get the lead in his own sitcom.
Wil Wheaton: "They named their Bowling Team after me..."
I suspect that Penny's decision to blow off her relationship with wazizneim and hook up with Sheldon can only end badly. Wil Wheaton will take Penny from him...
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At least they got rid of Tasha Yar. That was one character that was going nowhere.From what I've read and seen, Wil seems a decent guy.
That being said. I wholly admit to being a fan who wished for (the character) Wesley Crusher to die horribly in a transporter accident.
She had sex with DATA...there is no comming back from that.
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I agree with DS9. I've been rewatching it and it's only in the fifth season that I really started being impressed. And then suddenly, it gets really, really good after being hit and miss for a long time.
I disagree on Enterprise, though. I thought it was a good show, though it dared to not be the hopeful, everyone loves everyone Star Trek and went back to a more gritty, original series vibe. I was saddened when it was cancelled, since it was just starting to get its legs under it.
Agreed. I think the problem with Enterprise was the falling back into the tired old 'cliche' stories, and it wasn't until the Enterprise X got into those 'historical' moments that we got good episodes. (The augments, Romulans, the two Mirror episodes, etc.)
That and they got screwed out of a finale episode.
They should have gone with my suggestion. Episodes would be a year from each Enterprise beginning with the Prewarp Starship Enterprise stumbling across a BORG floating in Space, Terrorists Taking out an Enterprise in Spacedock, and soforth. Would have been awesome.
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You really want your head to explode? Did the events in First Contact and in Enterprise with the borg actually happen in this timeline? If they didn't, then did Cochran make it to warp on his own?Sounds like the Star Trek version of the Chewbacca Defense.Well, arguably since Old Spock and Nero and his en both existed after the Kelvin incident it means that what happened in the new timeline has not affected what happened in Star Trek Prime. Therefore yes the events of First Contact still occurred. Otherwise the old timeline would have been erased, Nero's crew would have ceased to exist which means he didn't destroy the Kelvin which means the old time line still exists, which means he did destroy the Kelvin which...BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
Begins picking brain bits off the screen.
** spoiler omitted **PS TUVOk was a Romulan Agent...You really want your head to explode? Did the events in First Contact and in Enterprise with the borg actually happen in this timeline? If they didn't, then did Cochran make it to warp on his own?Sounds like the Star Trek version of the Chewbacca Defense.Well, arguably since Old Spock and Nero and his en both existed after the Kelvin incident it means that what happened in the new timeline has not affected what happened in Star Trek Prime. Therefore yes the events of First Contact still occurred. Otherwise the old timeline would have been erased, Nero's crew would have ceased to exist which means he didn't destroy the Kelvin which means the old time line still exists, which means he did destroy the Kelvin which...BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
Begins picking brain bits off the screen.
She had sex with DATA...there is no comming back from that.At least they got rid of Tasha Yar. That was one character that was going nowhere.From what I've read and seen, Wil seems a decent guy.
That being said. I wholly admit to being a fan who wished for (the character) Wesley Crusher to die horribly in a transporter accident.
Whats wrong with haveing sex with a fully functional A.I.
After all he is skilled in over 6K forms of pleasuring.
I just wonder if you have to say "go go gadet" everytime you want him to change positions or parts?
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She had sex with DATA...there is no comming back from that.At least they got rid of Tasha Yar. That was one character that was going nowhere.From what I've read and seen, Wil seems a decent guy.
That being said. I wholly admit to being a fan who wished for (the character) Wesley Crusher to die horribly in a transporter accident.
Whats wrong with haveing sex with a fully functional A.I.
After all he is skilled in over 6K forms of pleasuring.
I just wonder if you have to say "go go gadet" everytime you want him to change positions or parts?
I'd assume he's programmed to determine the positions necessary to maximize pleasure =)