Changes (Dresden Files) - Jim Butcher: Are you currently reading it? [spoilers]


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Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Robert Little wrote:

Just an FYI...

The collection of short stories will be out in November and is called "Side Jobs". It will collect the following:
"Restoration of Faith"
"Vignette"
"Something Borrowed" -- from My Big Fat Supernatural Wedding
"It's My Birthday Too" -- from Many Bloody Returns
"Heorot" -- from My Big Fat Supernatural Honeymoon
"Day Off" -- from Blood Lite
"Backup" -- novelette from Thomas' POV, originally published by Subterranean Press
"The Warrior" -- novelette from Mean Streets
"Last Call" -- from Strange Brew
"Love Hurts" -- from Songs of Love and Death
And new material, including a story from Karrin Murphy's point-of-view 45 minutes after the end of Changes.

Cool, the only ones I have are Backup and The Warrior, both are excellent (and Backup came with Mike Mingola art!)

Spoiler for The Warrior

Spoiler:
Even half crippled and retired, Michael can kick ass


Calixymenthillian wrote:
unless there are other unknown rules preventing that—argh, I hate rules I don't know.

That's fey for you.


Ok; just finished it, cant wait till we can start openly theorizing on "whodunnit"; you know; the reason he fell in the water.

got my thinking cap on;
and holy moly; what a bloodline, didnt see that comming...Sir.

I thought this book was gonna be about Injun Joe; whatever happened to Injun Joe training him after that slobberknocker at the island in Lake Michigan? Thought Harry was gonna be tutored by Injun Joe.

as for strength of the book; didnt have the gripping and compelling grab you factor that other books have had; this was much much less a mystery to solve then just outright kick butt and chew bubble gum; and harry is always out of bubble gum. hehe. Of course; as I have a 3 year old and a 7 year old; I could get behind the theme....aint no mountain high enough; no pit deep enough and its good to have friends.

As for the Codex Fury stuff; man, I just cant get behind that series and I have tried.

af for the game coming out; dont know much about it.


My MO...

Spoiler:

I am going for Marcone; Harry did threaten Marcone and said he would get him but that he was just a small fish. On a side note; what will Ebenezzer do about it, I think Harry has lost his usefullness to Marcone and so had Harry shot; I was kinda hoping Marcone and crew would show up in some miliary helicopters and kick some butt with some chainguns as Marcone likes to take a hand in striking his enemies and the red court had been moving in on his territory; so since that enemy is gone; harry is not longer usefull, but much much scarier to Marcone, so hence the shooter; that is my theory atm.

Grand Lodge

Spoiler:
@Valegrim>> I was thinking the same thing as far as Marcone. But considering he knows how dangerous Harry is I would expect him to be a little more thorough.


ok; voices

Spoiler:

about the last two voices Harry hears; the first is obvious with the die alone; but the second female voice; that is a hmm

Laciel; left vestige that survived in his subconcious; perhaps.
Mab; doubt she would say hush
Maggie; harry's mom; well he has the new pentical item with the routes for the ways and left a vestiage of herself when he soulglazed Thomas; so my guess is that it is his mom.

I have an outside idea it may be the Archive but nothing to support it other than she pays attention and cares for Harry.

any other support or ideas?

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Yeah.

Spoiler:
I don't think the shooter was going for Harry. It wasn't his boat, and there are very few people who (a) knew that he might be there, and (b) would consider that shooting him in the gut would be an effective tactic.

Thomas has enemies, too.


Ok; you guys have to read the last short story in Small Jobs; the anthology just releases; it has a story from two hours after Changes takes place. As Robin would say;

Spoiler:

Holy Habius missing Corpus Batman.


some good stories here; good background on them from Jim if you like that sort of thing; which I certainly do.

Matthew Morris wrote:
Robert Little wrote:

Just an FYI...

The collection of short stories will be out in November and is called "Side Jobs". It will collect the following:
"Restoration of Faith"
"Vignette"
"Something Borrowed" -- from My Big Fat Supernatural Wedding
"It's My Birthday Too" -- from Many Bloody Returns
"Heorot" -- from My Big Fat Supernatural Honeymoon
"Day Off" -- from Blood Lite
"Backup" -- novelette from Thomas' POV, originally published by Subterranean Press
"The Warrior" -- novelette from Mean Streets
"Last Call" -- from Strange Brew
"Love Hurts" -- from Songs of Love and Death
And new material, including a story from Karrin Murphy's point-of-view 45 minutes after the end of Changes.

Cool, the only ones I have are Backup and The Warrior, both are excellent (and Backup came with Mike Mingola art!)

Spoiler for The Warrior ** spoiler omitted **


Ok; my MO has changed...hmm have a loose thought or two; nothing solid.

Valegrim wrote:

My MO...

** spoiler omitted **

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Spoiler:
I recommend going back and rereading Harry's encounter with Fix in Small Favor. I'm pretty confident that the shooter was Fix, and that Butcher foreshadowed it for us.


Hmm, I cant see that happening without a direct order and it would start another war; and so much for friendships. There are so many villians it could have been anyone; trying to stay vague here; but will list a few theoryies in spoiler since reading the short stories:

Spoiler:

we already know Duke Paolo had a hit set for Dresden and his associates; there might have been a conditional kill order that activated.

It might be a way that Mab takes him away from his old life to start his new life; but am thinking best candidate is the youngest queen of Winter and her wanting to put harry under her thumb and old greenteeth probably waited in the water for him; so he wouldnt drowned; and those two are gonna hurt/nurse him back to health; this is my best idea so is #1.

We need to hear from Toot and our LA and Arkansas wizards; you know who I mean; they wouldnt let this rest. Course there are plenty of wizards who hate harry; fear harry; and this doesnt break the L.O.M. so might be black council.

I have casual thoughts about Black Court Vamps and Denarians; but not enough to build a theory; sure motive; but not their M.O. Same as wondering if any of those second in commands from groups Harry has taken down like the Streetwolves are trying to make a name for themselves by taking Harry out; kind of a western theme. Now one thing; the Hell Hound warned harry that this is exactly how he would kill him; and he did have a date with Murphy; so; this is the #2 theory.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

One problem with your fae theory, Valegrim.

Spoiler:
I thought Jenny Greenteeth was Purina Brand Werewolf Chow.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32

Great interview with some previews of the next book, Ghost Story, available here!


Valegrim wrote:

Ok; just finished it, cant wait till we can start openly theorizing on "whodunnit"; you know; the reason he fell in the water.

got my thinking cap on;
and holy moly; what a bloodline, didnt see that comming...Sir.

I thought this book was gonna be about Injun Joe; whatever happened to Injun Joe training him after that slobberknocker at the island in Lake Michigan? Thought Harry was gonna be tutored by Injun Joe.

as for strength of the book; didnt have the gripping and compelling grab you factor that other books have had; this was much much less a mystery to solve then just outright kick butt and chew bubble gum; and harry is always out of bubble gum. hehe. Of course; as I have a 3 year old and a 7 year old; I could get behind the theme....aint no mountain high enough; no pit deep enough and its good to have friends.

As for the Codex Fury stuff; man, I just cant get behind that series and I have tried.

af for the game coming out; dont know much about it.

Why can't it be Martin, Susan's bland friend?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Beercifer wrote:


Why can't it be Martin, Susan's bland friend?

Because...

Spoiler:
He should have been wiped out by the Red Court Nuking, if I understood the sympathetic magic correctly.


Matthew Morris wrote:
Beercifer wrote:


Why can't it be Martin, Susan's bland friend?

Because...

** spoiler omitted **

Just reread it, Matt. You're right. Susan did the gouging of his throat and what a read! This book demands a ...nevermind-I was going to say sequel.

Dark Archive

And did you guys hear that Ghost Story has been delayed until July? It seems that Jim just wasn't happy with it. *whines* I don't wanna wait that long!

Grand Lodge

Dayne d'Arco wrote:
And did you guys hear that Ghost Story has been delayed until July? It seems that Jim just wasn't happy with it. *whines* I don't wanna wait that long!

The delay I can deal with. It gives them more time to come to their senses on their Kindle price.


I'm reading it right now (the paper back finally came out, and I only buy paper backs anymore)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I read "Side Jobs" about 2 weeks ago. Really well done.

My favorite part is when Harry starts arguing with his DM that 40 foot fireballs expand to fill the space, not stop in neat circles; and how their conversion states that's how it used to be, but this is a new edition with new rules, besides, your character is a barbarian; you're only a wizard in real life and this isn't real life, it's a game.


SmiloDan wrote:

I read "Side Jobs" about 2 weeks ago. Really well done.

My favorite part is when Harry starts arguing with his DM that 40 foot fireballs expand to fill the space, not stop in neat circles; and how their conversion states that's how it used to be, but this is a new edition with new rules, besides, your character is a barbarian; you're only a wizard in real life and this isn't real life, it's a game.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I love Harry Dresden and Jim Butcher.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

PsychoticWarrior wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:

I read "Side Jobs" about 2 weeks ago. Really well done.

My favorite part is when Harry starts arguing with his DM that 40 foot fireballs expand to fill the space, not stop in neat circles; and how their conversion states that's how it used to be, but this is a new edition with new rules, besides, your character is a barbarian; you're only a wizard in real life and this isn't real life, it's a game.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I love Harry Dresden and Jim Butcher.

He even keeps his dice in an old Crown Royal sack.


DARN IT! next book moved back all the way to JULY! ARGH!!!


Who dunnit:
Here is my take on who shot Harry:

Marcone- Not him and Side Jobs pretty much confirms it. Marcone has stated he doesn't need to kill him because one of his many enemies will do it at some point.

Kincaid- I doubt it, as it wasn't to the head and because Ivy likes him. The only time he's gotten bent out of shape is over Ivy, so having it be based off of jealousy doesn't really fit. As far as shooting Harry in the head, it's the one place he's usually doesn't have some form of passive protection and if the priest in "The Warrior" goes for the head shot as a former marine sniper, why wouldn't the guy who won't miss? I think saving Ivy bought Harry some protection from random contracts too.

Fix- I'm still counting him as a friend. He only threatened Harry at gun point because that was the only way he could get around Titania's enchantments. If ordered to kill Harry directly, I think he'd do it in true Sidhe style and come at him side ways so He'd have a chance to get out of the mess. A big part of the stories are his loyalty to his friends and their loyalty to him. The only way I could really see fix killing him outright would be if Fix thought the Summer Lady was in danger.

The Black Council- Could be, but the fact that Harry is one of the most progressive wizards in the series would take away from some of the story. It doesn't strike me as their MO. I'd imagine they'd pop out of a veil and death ray him rather then buy a hit man.

The White Council- Again, not their style. Plus with the Red Court gone they are probably busy grabbing up their holdings. While Lara is indeed capable of being very practicle about killing a wizard (see AP Mines) I think this is more a defensive measure. Actively seeking to kill him would probably use the normal methods. Plus it would be another feather in her cap for doing what daddy couldn't.

Nicodemus- He's my prime suspect. First, I won't believe he's dead until Harry has his coin. I think their last encounter would have really scared old Nic if not done some lasting physical damage. Harry nearly killed him (remember Nic's alliance with his Fallen is one of the reasons he so dangerous) so I think he'd be willing have one of his minions do it. Nic also has proven to be comfortable with magical and mundane methods for doing what he does. It also just feels right that Nic is the responsible party for "killing" Harry.

Alternately I think it might be an allied party that was trying to take him "off camera" to work "back stage" so he won't be taken out by some thing worse, like a Skinwalker who'd eat his power. Let's face it, Odin is in play now. Also the Gatekeeper seems like the type who might be able to pull something like that. McCoy can also the Laws of Magic to bring Harry back, though a big no for killing him.

That's my thoughts anyways.


So; how many think this next book is the last one? I sure hope its not and I wish Mr. Butcher wouldnt waste his time with tha Furies of C stuff, which i dont like at all, and write more Harry stories.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Skaorn wrote:
** spoiler omitted **...

You mean the White Court Not the White Council in your spoiler.

Interesting speculation you got me thinking though.

Spoiler:
Could it be the current merlin? Mr. Butcher's been strongly hinting that Harry = Merlin, complete with holding Excaliber and his mother's name/nickname and that Molly's his apprentice who is already skating along the lines of breaking the Laws of magic. Maybe after seeing the power he brought to bear as allies and the tactical nuking of the entire red court, the current merlin was worried about being in his sights. Especially if the current merlin knows about his relationship with the current blackstaff. (sorry, if Merlin is always Merlin, Khleben will always be 'The' Blackstaff).


Valegrim wrote:
So; how many think this next book is the last one? I sure hope its not and I wish Mr. Butcher wouldnt waste his time with tha Furies of C stuff, which i dont like at all, and write more Harry stories.

Mr. Butcher already said that the seies will be around twenty books plus a trilogy for the ending. So no it is not the end. It's about halfway through though. Also Codex Alera ended with the sixth book in '09. And the entire series was gloriously awesome and NOT a waste of time.


Matthew Morris wrote:
Skaorn wrote:
** spoiler omitted **...

You mean the White Court Not the White Council in your spoiler.

Interesting speculation you got me thinking though.
** spoiler omitted **

Simple mistake, transferred over from writing up the Black Council. You got my meaning.

The Merlin:
I think the Merlin is still more in the Ally category (though one who might fit the "kill him for the greater good"). The last few books has painted the Merlin in a more sympathetic light and even when he did go after Harry with politics, it was still out in the open. I see the Merlin as the keystone of the White Council. He has power but he's not flexible enough to adapt to all the changes to the system that the Council has gotten used to. It's implied that he's fully aware that there is a Black Council and that the newest member to the big table is a Black Council studge at the very least but his hands are tied by laws and politics, just like they were with Morgan. So I personally don't see him assassinating Harry to save his own position.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Skaorn wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
Skaorn wrote:
** spoiler omitted **...

You mean the White Court Not the White Council in your spoiler.

Interesting speculation you got me thinking though.
** spoiler omitted **

Simple mistake, transferred over from writing up the Black Council. You got my meaning.

** spoiler omitted **

Yeah, just didn't want others to get confused. No offence was intended.

I'l still wondering

Spoiler:
If Molly might turn out to be Harry's Morgana. Which would suck, since I like her. Then again, I like Ashoka, and yet hope we see her killed in the clone wars cartoon.

You might be right about the Merlin. I am curious what's in the blackstaff though. Changes read to me like Ebenezeer was calling on a 'something' in the staff.

I also wonder if Harry's 'death' in Changes will get him out of his White Knight obligations.


Matthew Morris wrote:


You mean the White Court Not the White Council in your spoiler.

Interesting speculation you got me thinking though.
** spoiler omitted **

Simple mistake, transferred over from writing up the Black Council. You got my meaning.

** spoiler omitted **

Yeah, just didn't want others to get confused. No offence was intended.

I'l still wondering
** spoiler omitted **

None taken, though did you mean Winter Knight or White Knight as in Knight of the Cross ;p.

Spoiler:
I think Elaine is more his Morgana, and she's already done a big betrayal already. I think Molly might do something stupid out of loyalty like she did in Turncoat but that's about it. I mean, would you go evil if Charity was your mom :D. I also don't want any thing bad to happen to Michael and his family by proxy so I'm biased here.

Alternately Susan could be seen as Harry's Morgana as there was a kid and deception involved.

I'm not sure what the Blackstaff is, though I think it is some entity, but I get the feeling Harry will find out one day :(.

According to Wikipedia the next book title is Winter Knight. Also it would seem weird if Harry became the Winter Knight and lost it in the second half of the same book. My guess would be he's still in Mab's power. She probably has his body at the moment as his body disappeared in the frigid lake Michigan. That's my guess at least.

Sovereign Court

Valegrim wrote:
DARN IT! next book moved back all the way to JULY! ARGH!!!

Nooooooooooooooo!!! April just won't be the same without my annual Dresden fix!


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
Calixymenthillian wrote:
Valegrim wrote:
DARN IT! next book moved back all the way to JULY! ARGH!!!
Nooooooooooooooo!!! April just won't be the same without my annual Dresden fix!

First I heard about it too. Darn it!

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Since this seems to be the thread for Dresden Files speculation, I just want to go on record as saying I think...

The Black Council is lead by...:
Kemmler, the uber-necromancer who discovered the godhood ritual featured in Dead Beat. The guy who spent over a century manipulating the world from behind the scenes (sound familiar?) in order to start World War I. The guy whose magic created Bob the Skull and corrupted Harry's mentor. The guy who conquered Eastern Europe with an army of the undead, and was only defeated by the combined might of the assembled White Council and all of the Wardens, whom he singled-handedly decimated during the showdown. All of this before he was able to complete the ritual he discovered and ascend to godhood.

My theory is that Kemmler is back from the dead, and is now a god. He founded the Black Council and provoked the war between the White Council and the Red Court in order to weak any possible opposition to his ultimate return. He's currently in hiding, developing new god-like powers, raising an army of the undead, and working on opening the gates that keep the Outsiders out. Once the Black Council has sufficiently destabilized everything, Kemmler's going to burst onto the scene to kill off all the other gods, usurp their Outsider minions, and attempt to conquer the world.

At which point Harry becomes the Merlin (possibly going back in time to become the original Merlin), assembles the most badass alliance ever, and goes all Twilight-of-the-Gods on Kemmler's ass.


At least, that's my theory about where this is all heading.


Epic Meepo wrote:

Since this seems to be the thread for Dresden Files speculation, I just want to go on record as saying I think...

** spoiler omitted **
At least, that's my theory about where this is all heading.

Spoiler:
I'm leaning towards good ol' Justin myself. Of all the characters in Dresden's life we know the least about him. There's a lot there we don't know, like how Harry actually be He Who Walks Behind.

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I really hope there isn't any time travel BS.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Kryzbyn wrote:
I really hope there isn't any time travel BS.

Hasn't the Gatekeeper already traveled in time? I seem to recall a scene in a recent book where he was offering cryptic advice, and someone explained that he had to be cryptic because he'd obtained his information from the future.

Grand Lodge

Epic Meepo wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
I really hope there isn't any time travel BS.
Hasn't the Gatekeeper already traveled in time? I seem to recall a scene in a recent book where he was offering cryptic advice, and someone explained that he had to be cryptic because he'd obtained his information from the future.

Yeah, certain people can break certain rules. Gatekeeper we're pretty sure has broken rules involving time, although he may have just worked around it. Eb has gone full out and we know what quite well.


Matthew Morris wrote:
**snipped spoiler about how Harry could weasel out of his debt to Mab**

My wife theorized the same thing, but somehow I don't think Mab is going to be willing to give up her new pet that easily.

I also think that the possibility that Fix is involved in the major event at the end of Changes is greater than some suspect, and has even been foreshadowed to some extent in previous novels. If Titania perceives Mab's new knight as that big of a threat, all she has to do is say the word and Fix has no choice but to do her bidding.

I doubt Marcone is involved - it just doesn't seem like his style. Nicodemus isn't a bad guess, though.

Of course, the preview chapter for Ghost Story seems to suggest that there's something "wrong" with said major event - that it wasn't meant to be. Given that, there may be an entirely new party at work here that we haven't seen before.

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