Arcane Fighter
Hit Die: d10.
Requirements
To qualify to become an arcane fighter, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Feats: Weapon Focus (any Meele), Weapon Specialization (any Meele), Combat Casting
Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.
Class Skills
The arcane fighter's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Perception (Wis), Ride (Dex), Animal Handling (Cha), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Ranks at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Table: Arcane Fighter
Lvl Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Spells per Day
1st +1 +1 +0 +1 Enhance Weapon, Diverse Training +1 level existing class
2nd +2 +1 +1 +1 Imbue Weapon —
3rd +3 +2 +1 +2 +1 level existing class
4th +4 +2 +1 +2 Guided Attack +1 level existing class
5th +5 +3 +2 +3 +1 level existing class
6th +6 +3 +2 +3 Phase Attack —
7th +7 +4 +2 +4 +1 level existing class
8th +8 +4 +3 +4 Whirlwind Strike +1 level existing class
9th +9 +5 +3 +5 +1 level existing class
10th +10 +5 +3 +5 Spell Critical —
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the arcane fighter prestige class.
Spells per Day
At the indicated levels, an arcane fighter gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain other benefits a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming an arcane fighter, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.
Enhance Weapon (Su)
At 1st level, every non-magical melee weapon an arcane fighter wields that he is specialized in becomes magical, gaining a +1 enhancement bonus. Unlike magic weapons created by normal means, the fighter need not spend gold pieces to accomplish this task. However, a fighter's magic weapon only functions for him.
In addition, the arcane fighter's weapon gains a number of additional qualities as he gains additional levels. The elemental, elemental burst, and aligned qualities can be changed once per day, when the arcane fighter prepares spells or, in the case of spontaneous spellcasters, after 8 hours of rest.
At 3rd level, every Enhanced Weapon gains one of the following elemental themed weapon qualities: flaming, frost, or shock.
At 5th level, every Enhanced Weapon gains the keen weapon quality.
At 7th level, every Enhanced Weapon gains one of the following elemental burst weapon qualities: flaming burst, icy burst, or shocking burst. This ability replaces the ability gained at 3rd level.
At 9th level, every Enhanced Weapon gains one of the following aligned weapon qualities: anarchic, axiomatic, holy, or unholy. The arcane fighter cannot choose an ability that is the opposite of his alignment (for example, a lawful good arcane fighter could not choose anarchic or unholy as his weapon quality).
Diverse Training
An arcane fighter adds his level to any levels of fighter he might have for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites for feats. He also adds his level to any levels in an arcane spellcasting class for the purpose of meeting the prerequisites for feats.
Imbue Weapon (Sp)
At 2nd level, an arcane fighter gains the ability to place any damaging non-area spell upon a weapon. If the weapon hits, the spell also affects the target. A spell cast in this way uses its standard casting time, ignores arcane spell failure, and the arcane fighter can attack with the weapon as part of the casting. The weapon must be used to attack during the round that the casting is completed or the spell is wasted. If the weapon misses, the spell is wasted.
Guided Attack (Sp)
At 4th level, an arcane fighter can attack a single target known to him as a standard action. This attack ability negates all cover and concealment modifiers, but otherwise the attack is rolled normally. An arcane fighter can use this ability once per day at 4th level, and one additional time per day for every two levels beyond 4th, to a maximum of four times per day at 10th level.
Phase Attack (Sp)
At 6th level, an arcane fighter can make an attack once per day at a target known to him as a standard action. This attack ability negates cover, concealment, and is resolved as an incorporeal touch attack. An arcane fighter can use this ability once per day at 6th level, and one additional time per day for every two levels beyond 6th, to a maximum of three times per day at 10th level.
Whirlwind Strike (Sp)
At 8th level, an arcane fighter can make an attack at each and every target within reach once per day as a standard action. This ability is otherwise identical to the Whirlwind Attack feat. In addition, the arcane fighter can choose to Imbue Weapon as a part of the Whirlwind Strike, but the spell effect discharges after the first hit.
Spell Critical (Su)
At 10th level, whenever an arcane fighter successfully confirms a critical hit, he can cast a spell as a swift action. The spell must include the target of the attack as one of its targets or in its area of effect. Casting this spell does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The caster must still meet all of the spell's components and must roll for arcane spell failure if necessary.
Obviously, just a blend of EK and AA geared towards melee combat.
I think I'm going to add it to my list of approved homebrew PrC's, BUT:
Is it OP?
Is it UP?
Does it fullfil the concept of "Guy That Magically Stabs Dudes"?
Also, do you think the pre-req's are appropriate?
No,
I wanted a base class of gishiness.
KenderKin wrote: No,
I wanted a base class of gishiness.
Too bad :P
Or were you actually responding to a question?
Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Mirror, Mirror wrote: Arcane Fighter
Requirements
To qualify to become an arcane fighter, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Feats: Weapon Focus (any Meele), Weapon Specialization (any Meele), Combat Casting
Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.
This will bar rangers and paladins from achieving the class. Is that intentional?
dulsin wrote: Mirror, Mirror wrote: Arcane Fighter
Requirements
To qualify to become an arcane fighter, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +4.
Feats: Weapon Focus (any Meele), Weapon Specialization (any Meele), Combat Casting
Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.
This will bar rangers and paladins from achieving the class. Is that intentional? Basically, yes. They are already classes with Divine spell potential. Theoretically, you could take 4 lvl's of fighter to get in, regardless, but it is more of a fighter/arcanist multiclass.
Now, if I changed it to allow other classes, I would increase the BAB requirement to +5 and remove WS as a pre-req. However, what else would I require here as a pre-req? Power Attack? It should be something melee oriented.
Personally, I would prefer BAB +3 requirement, coupled with minimum of 5 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) (and the current spellcasting requirement). That way, you have a greater freedom in how much you split between caster and fighter. You could do both the fighter/CASTER and the FIGHTER/caster. Right now, it's very focused on the latter.
stringburka wrote: Personally, I would prefer BAB +3 requirement, coupled with minimum of 5 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) (and the current spellcasting requirement). That way, you have a greater freedom in how much you split between caster and fighter. You could do both the fighter/CASTER and the FIGHTER/caster. Right now, it's very focused on the latter. Well, the +4 BAB requirement is mostly nullified by the Weapon Specialization requirement, but I see your point.
However, Eldritch Knight is already a fighter/CASTER. And, due to the pre-req's, it is pretty much stuck as that.
This was meant to present the alternative: a FIGHTER/caster. Thus the reason they really only gain 8 spellcasting levels over 15 HD.
I calculated it out, and they could, at 20th, have a max of 13 CL's. 12 if they took EK as their next PrC (to get the HP, BAB, and casting). That would be 6th lvl spells with a +19 BAB or 7th lvl spells (if a wizard) with a +17 BAB. Either way, I think it's pretty good.
And at the end of the PrC, they would likely have 4th lvl spells and +14 BAB.
BUT, I could easily change the pre-req's. What would I replace the WS feat pre-req with, though?
Mirror, Mirror wrote:
However, Eldritch Knight is already a fighter/CASTER. And, due to the pre-req's, it is pretty much stuck as that.
Yeah, but it's a bad one. I'd much rather play your class for a balanced middle ground (a FIGhter/CASter, if you wish), as it's far more interesting.
Quote: BUT, I could easily change the pre-req's. What would I replace the WS feat pre-req with, though? Don't really know. I'm not much in favor of heavy PRC requirements, so personally I would probably just have popped BAB 3, Know (Arcana) 5, and 1st level spells. But that's just me :3
Here is an alternative:
Requirements
Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 5 ranks
Feats: All Simple and Martial Weapons, Weapon Focus (any Meele), Combat Casting
Spells: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.
Advantages - Same level requirements, but lots of flexibility in what you take. It does require at least 1 level in a martial class (Barb, Ftr, Pal, Rng) and at least 1 level as a caster. However, the other 3 levels are completly open.
Disadvantages - Is this now too easy? I mean, Ftr1/Wiz1/Rog3 can qualify for this class now.
F1/W1/Rogue3
entering the class does seem less fighter oriented than what you were looking at.
But yes,
I think many people might use cleric as the 3rd level class when they enter the arcane fighter. (might even be a little Paladinesque)....
Mirror, Mirror wrote:
Disadvantages - Is this now too easy? I mean, Ftr1/Wiz1/Rog3 can qualify for this class now.
Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with that. I could actually roll such a character myself - Think someone with the style and flair of Jarlaxle Baenre (though maybe less careless about innocent lives), but with more arcane power (rather than just having every single magic item ever made >.<)
I always thought a well developed Gish would gain something like....
True Gish (EX) may at any level take a level in either his martial or spellcasting class rather than gaining a level in Arcane Fighter with no penalty.
Hmm...
Stripping out both the WS and BAB pre-req is a bit much, IMO. I don't like the ease of possibilities.
So +4 BAB is making a comeback. You can enter at 5th lvl by multiclassing fighter/mage, or 6th lvl by multiclassing 3 levels into any 3/4 BAB class (like Rog or Brd or Clr). It's only a single level, but still a cost.
This is the point where I wish we would have OR pre-req's.
+4 BAB
-OR-
2nd lvl Arcane Spells
What about the abilities. Are they ok, or are there flaws that need to be addressed?
I am a big fan of OR
I wish there were more ORs listed in the PF game.
I have been using or for a long time especially in pre-reqs
For example
weapon specilization
Weapon focus OR weapon finesse........
Same with iron will as a pre-req
Iron will OR a base will save +6 or greater.....
KenderKin wrote: I am a big fan of OR
I wish there were more ORs listed in the PF game.
I have been using or for a long time especially in pre-reqs
For example
weapon specilization
Weapon focus OR weapon finesse........
Same with iron will as a pre-req
Iron will OR a base will save +6 or greater.....
Agreed. OR is a powerful tool. It can let people get into PrC's without planning to from lvl 1, it let's feats be more diversified, and it lets players manage their resources rather than letting the books manage it for them.
For example
weapon specilization
Weapon focus OR weapon finesse........
That one little or has been the bane of the finesse fighter build for a long time......
This would be a lot cooler if it dropped the Arcane and just worked on spellcasting. Both Cleric and Druid seem to be perfect fits for this, so wwhy is it Arcane only?
A few things I would point out.
D10 is too strong. Drop it back to d6, or at most d8.
Not sure about the Full Attack. I'd say 3/4 at most.
Drop the Skills to 2+Int. Unless your talking about 4+Int as the minimume any class can have, there is no need to so many, especially because Wizards already have a high Int, and Bards a lot of class skills and decent Int, and are the more likely class to go into this.
I'd also say drop a Save, if not both good Saves. This is about balnance, and with bad Save(s), they are not going to be that far behind Fighter (required Level 4) and at least one class that gets one or two good saves (Bard). This would also help to balance out the fewer needed stats this build would require.
This class has some very strong features, though, so you could honestly go with a d6 HP, no good save, no skills, and 1/2 BaB and it would still be very strong, I think. And I'm not joking there.
Beckett wrote: This class has some very strong features, though, so you could honestly go with a d6 HP, no good save, no skills, and 1/2 BaB and it would still be very strong, I think. And I'm not joking there. Thanks for the feedback!
Now, this is mostly based on the existing Arcane Archer chasis, which is why it gets the two good saves, full BAB, and 4 skills/lvl.
The largest difference between the two classes is the pre-req's and some of the abilities.
The spellcasting of the class is rather weak, considering you pretty much need about 4 levels of a non-casting class (except for Fighter/Bard, but then you loose out of the damaging spells). This cuts down the power of the class by quite a bit.
And the Arcane part is mostly because Clerics and Druids can already cast buffs and go "battle form". Especially Druids.
NOW, having said that, which abilities are too strong for the chasis? I would rather reduce the abilities than change the chasis too much.
None of the abilites are too strong on their own, I think.
It is more the fact that they combine really well. A 10 level GTMSD can potentually have a +4 Keen, Holy, Flaming Burst weapon for free, that can also cast touch attack spells that ignor cover and concealment, can initiate a wirlwind attack (so with the right spells might apply that to all attacks), and on a crit [keen] gets to cast another spell as well.
I think the required Fighter Levels means that it should have enough of a BaB, Save, and Hp boost for a Wizard (type) without starting to overpower the Fighter to much.
I still think that it would be a good, fun idea to open it to Divine spellcasters as well, (who wouldn't belooking at buffs to play this class, as it allows them to cast damaging spells throught thier weapon).
If you want to downgrade some abilities, drop the 5th and 9th level Enhanced Weapon abilites, and make Whirlwind Strike, Phase Attack, and Guided Attack either Full Round Actions, or require the Standard Action one their previous turn, (so the need to activate the ability and then move up to actually use it next turn).
All in all though, I would really perfer dropping the BaB, Saves, HP, and Skills first.
Beckett wrote: It is more the fact that they combine really well. A 10 level GTMSD can potentually have a +4 Keen, Holy, Flaming Burst weapon for free, that can also cast touch attack spells that ignor cover and concealment, can initiate a wirlwind attack (so with the right spells might apply that to all attacks), and on a crit [keen] gets to cast another spell as well. That's +1 Keen, Holy, Flaming Burst. The weapon needs to be non-magical, AND they need to be specialized in it. It's kind of a trade-off, since they won't get +5 DR bypassing weapons, and if they do, they loose the free enchantments from the class. They CAN purchase multiple weapons, but the alignment thing still stops them, unless their own alignment allows then to bypass the DR (via class ability).
And, yes, the abilities do synergize well. Many are stuck with a "X/day" mechanic, but the nova potential is there (especially with Whirlwind and Spell Critical).
If I drop the higher level Enhance Weapon abilities, I think i need to open it up to magic weapons as well. Otherwise the Arcane Fighter will end up being too weak at higher levels. After all, I want a more meele combat guy than a caster.
Beckett wrote: I still think that it would be a good, fun idea to open it to Divine spellcasters as well, (who wouldn't belooking at buffs to play this class, as it allows them to cast damaging spells throught thier weapon). I don't think I would really mind opening it to Divine casters. It just benefits them less, since their spell list has fewer direct-damage options than the Wiz/Sor. It might tread on the toes of the Paladin, though.
Beckett wrote: It is more the fact that they combine really well. A 10 level GTMSD can potentually have a +4 Keen, Holy, Flaming Burst weapon for free, that can also cast touch attack spells that ignor cover and concealment, can initiate a wirlwind attack (so with the right spells might apply that to all attacks), and on a crit [keen] gets to cast another spell as well. Mirror, Mirror wrote:
That's +1 Keen, Holy, Flaming Burst. The weapon needs to be non-magical, AND they need to be specialized in it. It's kind of a trade-off, since they won't get +5 DR bypassing weapons, and if they do, they loose the free enchantments from the class. They CAN purchase multiple weapons, but the alignment thing still stops them, unless their own alignment allows then to bypass the DR (via class ability).
Sorry, I meant with Greater Magic Weapon turning it into a +3 - +5 weapon also.
Mirror, Mirror wrote:
And, yes, the abilities do synergize well. Many are stuck with a "X/day" mechanic, but the nova potential is there (especially with Whirlwind and Spell Critical).
I'm less concerned with the Nova that I am tha this class has te potentual for so much damage, and it can do it throughout 4 or 5 Fights a day.
Mirror, Mirror wrote:
If I drop the higher level Enhance Weapon abilities, I think i need to open it up to magic weapons as well. Otherwise the Arcane Fighter will end up being too weak at higher levels. After all, I want a more meele combat guy than a caster.
I'm a little confussed. You seem to be implying that the Enhanced Weapon can no have other (normal) magic properties, but I din't see that prt anywhere. Does an Enhanced Weapon have to be a normal, nonmagical weapon to qualify?
Beckett wrote: I still think that it would be a good, fun idea to open it to Divine spellcasters as well, (who wouldn't belooking at buffs to play this class, as it allows them to cast damaging spells throught thier weapon). I don't think I would really mind opening it to Divine casters. It just benefits them less, since their spell list has fewer direct-damage options than the Wiz/Sor. It might tread on the toes of the Paladin, though.
I was thinking specifically about war priest or martial Druids. Inflict Spells would really work, and just the whole concept of channeling spells through a weapon is just really cool, Arcane or Divine. Not to mention that a slight "variant" of a Whirlwind Cure Light Wounds to heal the party could be really cool. . .
Also, with it open to Divine, what is to stop a Paladin from going into this, (and possibly stacking Enhanced Weapon with their Divine Bond thingy)? Alter the requirements a tad, that could also be very fun. :)
Beckett wrote: Mirror, Mirror wrote:
If I drop the higher level Enhance Weapon abilities, I think i need to open it up to magic weapons as well. Otherwise the Arcane Fighter will end up being too weak at higher levels. After all, I want a more meele combat guy than a caster.
I'm a little confussed. You seem to be implying that the Enhanced Weapon can no have other (normal) magic properties, but I din't see that prt anywhere. Does an Enhanced Weapon have to be a normal, nonmagical weapon to qualify? Yes. "At 1st level, every non-magical melee weapon an arcane fighter wields that he is specialized in becomes magical..."
Ok, I didn't think that also implied that they couldn't otherwise Enchant it. It seemed to imly that the base weapon didn't have to be magic first, or masterwork, but more specificly that it didn't require the gp or time that a permanent magical weapon would. Might be a good idea then to clarify that an Enhanced Weapon can not otherwise have a Magical Property, or that Enhanced Weapon overrides all other Enchantments, even a higher Magical Bonus, similar to how Holy Sword does (I think).
Still Greater Magic Weapon?
Beckett wrote: Ok, I didn't think that also implied that they couldn't otherwise Enchant it. It seemed to imly that the base weapon didn't have to be magic first, or masterwork, but more specificly that it didn't require the gp or time that a permanent magical weapon would. Might be a good idea then to clarify that an Enhanced Weapon can not otherwise have a Magical Property, or that Enhanced Weapon overrides all other Enchantments, even a higher Magical Bonus, similar to how Holy Sword does (I think).
Still Greater Magic Weapon?
I never thought about Greater Magic Weapon, honestly. My intiution says that it's all about order of operation (You need to use Enhanced Weapon first, then cast the spell), but my munchkin sense warns me against this entirely (so the spell would supress the effect of Enhanced Weapon for the duration).
I kind of lean towards the latter option, since it best fits with the ideal of the class. It's not about buff spells that increase combat potential. It's about casting spells through the weapon to deal increased damage.
AND, that would justify the full BAB.
Some other concerns:
Should the pre-req's be more in line with the AA, specifically the BAB+6. I feel if I require WF and WS I have already mandated that all GTMSD's have 4 levels of fighter. Hence the reason I thought to lower the BAB. If there a more compelling reason to keep it in line with the AA?
Along those same lines, I obviously stole the best abilities from the EK (Diverse Training and Spell Critical), but mostly because I see this class as a replacement for the EK and I feel melee is more inherrently risky than archery, thus the GTMSD should get more from their PrC. Another way, archery in PFRPG is generally better than melee, so the GTMDS balances out against the AA to create two equally powerful characters. However, are my assumptions on this correct, or should I keep the split?
Here is the issue I have. You do not make the EK obsolete by making a new class. So first off no ability the EK have. 2nd both the EK and AA have an entry level of more then 5. EK 7, AA 8 so this one should as well.
Your making it flat out better then both the other PRC's which is the trap wotc fell into.
If ya look at it like this an EK needs 1 level of melee class and 5 levels of wizard. AA needs 1 level of caster and 6 levels of Melee class. Yours needs 1 level of caster and 4 levels of melss
So at full PRC levels we have
EK: level 16 Caster level:14 BAB:+13
AA: Level 17 Caster level:8 BAB:+16
Aw: level 15 caster level:8 BAB:+14
so your the same caster level as an AA but 2 levels lower. It just seems to me it should be even if it's basically the same thing.
seekerofshadowlight wrote: Here is the issue I have. You do not make the EK obsolete by making a new class. So first off no ability the EK have. 2nd both the EK and AA have an entry level of more then 5. EK 7, AA 8 so this one should as well.
Your making it flat out better then both the other PRC's which is the trap wotc fell into.
If ya look at it like this an EK needs 1 level of melee class and 5 levels of wizard. AA needs 1 level of caster and 6 levels of Melee class. Yours needs 1 level of caster and 4 levels of melss
So at full PRC levels we have
EK: level 16 Caster level:14 BAB:+13
AA: Level 17 Caster level:8 BAB:+16
Aw: level 15 caster level:8 BAB:+14
so your the same caster level as an AA but 2 levels lower. It just seems to me it should be even if it's basically the same thing.
Well, it all depends on what you value. The Arcane Fighter lack the spellcasting power of the EK. In fact, he is 6 levels behind. I wouldn't mind bumping the BAB requirement to 5, which makes for an entry level of 6, just like the DD. At full PrC, that makes them lvl 16, CL 8, BAB +15, which pretty much falls in between the EK and the AA.
I am fine with losing Diverse Training and changing Spell Critical to Death Rune, to mimic the Death Arrow ability, but then I do not think I can have WS as a pre-req. Requiring 4 lvl's of fighter, then denying them any benefit for those levels, is a bit too harsh, IMO.
If ya want to keep access to fighter feats go EK. One PRC to rule them all is an issue not a fix. Ya could change the feats to Weapon focus, Arcane strike and vital strike and sidestep the "you must be a fighter"
seekerofshadowlight wrote: If ya want to keep access to fighter feats go EK. One PRC to rule them all is an issue not a fix. Ya could change the feats to Weapon focus, Arcane strike and vital strike and sidestep the "you must be a fighter" I kind of like Combat Casting, especially since with a BAB+5 requirement you can't just take that level of WIZ last.
Weapon Focus, Arcane Strike, and Combat Casting pretty much mandate you take 1 lvl of WIZ/SOR first (or at 3rd lvl), then take/complete the fighter levels.
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