Two Summoner / Eidolon Questions


Rules Questions


My group is putting together a Pathfinder campaign and for once I am not the GM. Our GM is allowing anything from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook and the six classes from the second Advanced Players Guide Playtest. In addition, she is allowing things from the Adventure Paths with her explicit permission, and we all get to choose two character traits.

I'm playing a Human Summoner and I'm building my character and his Eidolon, and I'm curious about a couple of somethings.

1) What happens if I'm knocked unconscious? If I'm reduced to below zero hit points, does my Eidolon stick around and keep fighting? Is he dismissed? What about if I'm asleep? Do I have to resummon him every morning if I sleep? The first paragraph mentions that they are not sent back to their home plane until reduced to a number of negative hit points equal to or greater than their Constitution score, but that is the only thing condition I've found about the Eidolon being sent back without my say so.

2) What happens if my Eidolon has two natural attacks that are listed as Primary? I'm using the Quadruped base form which grants him the Bite evolution. If I choose to give him the Gore evolution do I get to make both attacks at his full base attack bonus plus full strength modifier? Or do I have to designate one attack as a secondary attack and take the -5 penalty plus half strength damage?

I've read through the entry a few times and I haven't been able find the answers to my questions, so hopefully someone here might be able to help me out.


1) Big E only goes back under stated conditions. So only when its material form is destroyed or you dismiss it.

2) All primary attacks remain primary in PF if you look through the beastiary in most instances both claws and bite are shown as primary (at least on the monsters that weren't simply cut & paste) and will have full attack bonus and damage on both.


Semi-related add-on question: Does the Summoner have to complete all his actions first, then the Eidolon, then any summoned monster (maybe via the Spell-like Ability used the previous round?) Or do you mix and match actions, i.e. the Summoner casts Enlarge Person on the Eidolon, then the Eidolon takes its move action to prepare a flank, then the summoned monster takes its move and standard to attack with the now-granted flank, then the Eidolon attacks, and finally the Summoner takes his move action to move up and stand gloating over the fallen victim.

I don't see anywhere in the PF rules that explicitly says

1) You can take your actions in any order you want during your turn.
2) Pets and summoned monsters that go on your turn take their actions interspersed with yours in any order desired during your turn.

Or do summoned monsters establish their own initiative value?

Scarab Sages

Carl Neidhardt wrote:

Semi-related add-on question: Does the Summoner have to complete all his actions first, then the Eidolon, then any summoned monster (maybe via the Spell-like Ability used the previous round?) Or do you mix and match actions, i.e. the Summoner casts Enlarge Person on the Eidolon, then the Eidolon takes its move action to prepare a flank, then the summoned monster takes its move and standard to attack with the now-granted flank, then the Eidolon attacks, and finally the Summoner takes his move action to move up and stand gloating over the fallen victim.

I don't see anywhere in the PF rules that explicitly says

1) You can take your actions in any order you want during your turn.
2) Pets and summoned monsters that go on your turn take their actions interspersed with yours in any order desired during your turn.

Or do summoned monsters establish their own initiative value?

Typically speaking, I go with the following:

1. Eidolons are intelligent and have their own initiative modifier, so I have the player roll for them separately and have them go on their own initiative.

2. Summoned Monsters pop into being either during the Summoner's turn (when it's a standard action to cast) or immediately before the caster's turn (when a '1 round' casting time). In both cases, I say the summoned creature goes on the initiative count immediately before the caster/summoner, although in the summoner's case I allow him to decide if he wants the creature to go before him or after him.

In no event should a creature ever 'share' the same turn with someone else, even with the same initiative modifier. That's what holding or readying is for. If the eidolon wants to move past the summoner, receiving a mage armor on the way, then it can move up and 'ready' its second move to trigger after it has a mage armor cast. Summoner's turn pops up, casts mage armor, eidolon does its second move to keep going.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Carl Neidhardt wrote:

Semi-related add-on question: Does the Summoner have to complete all his actions first, then the Eidolon, then any summoned monster (maybe via the Spell-like Ability used the previous round?) Or do you mix and match actions, i.e. the Summoner casts Enlarge Person on the Eidolon, then the Eidolon takes its move action to prepare a flank, then the summoned monster takes its move and standard to attack with the now-granted flank, then the Eidolon attacks, and finally the Summoner takes his move action to move up and stand gloating over the fallen victim.

I don't see anywhere in the PF rules that explicitly says

1) You can take your actions in any order you want during your turn.
2) Pets and summoned monsters that go on your turn take their actions interspersed with yours in any order desired during your turn.

Or do summoned monsters establish their own initiative value?

All creatures have thier own initiative count. So the Summoner, the Eidolon, and the summoned creature(s) would have their own slot init initiative. Now your Eidolon can move and ready an action to attack when the summoned creature flanks the enemy.


Pathfinder Card Game, Companion Subscriber

OgeXam - according to the Summon Monster I spell description, creatures you summon using it act on your turn. They do not roll initiative. If your place in the initiative order changes, so does theirs.

The Eidolon, existing prior to the start of combat, I'm assuming gets it's own initiative. I see nothing in the Eidolon description to contradict that.

My group only uses "shared initiative with master" for creatures that explicitly list it....

So summoned monsters and familiars move on their masters' turns, while animal companions, cohorts, followers, and eidolons roll their own initiative. I could see consolidating them to give each player one "turn" per round, though.... just depends on your group's style.


Keep in mind that a summoner can't have both the eidolon & a summoned monster (via the spell-like ability) at the same time, since they use the same source. Whenever you summon a new monster or your eidolon, the previously summoned creature is dismissed.

Also, the eidolon is immediately banished if the summoner is knocked out, killed or asleep. So yes, you have to summon it every morning when you wake up - or whenever you want it.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Convict #24601 wrote:


1) What happens if I'm knocked unconscious? If I'm reduced to below zero hit points, does my Eidolon stick around and keep fighting? Is he dismissed? What about if I'm asleep? Do I have to resummon him every morning if I sleep? The first paragraph mentions that they are not sent back to their home plane until reduced to a number of negative hit points equal to or greater than their Constitution score, but that is the only thing condition I've found about the Eidolon being sent back without my say so.

Under eidolon, second paragraph:

PRD wrote:
A summoner can summon his eidolon in a ritual that takes 1 minute to perform. When summoned in this way, the eidolon hit points are unchanged from the last time it was summoned. The only exception to this is if the eidolon was slain, in which case it returns with half its normal hit points. The eidolon does not heal naturally. The eidolon remains until dismissed by the summoner (a standard action). If the eidolon is sent back to its home plane due to death, it cannot be summoned again until the following day. The eidolon cannot be sent back to its home plane by means of dispel magic, but spells such as dismissal and banishment work normally. If the summoner is unconscious, asleep, or killed, his eidolon is immediately banished.

So if you are unconscious or incapacitated your eidolon is immediately dismissed. The feat Resilient Eidolon from Ulimate magic allow him to stay for round/level of the summoner when he summoner is unconscious, asleep, or killed.


Wow! Thread Necro to argue that the playtest rules aren't the same as the very different published rules?

If you note the question was posed and answered a full four months Before the Advanced Players Guide was released. Back then summoners could use the summon SLA while the Eidolon was out and consciousness of the Summoner was irrelevant to the eidolons status.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

LOL, I often forget to check a tread post dates if it is in the first page of the forum.

Sczarni

Dude...synjon...start new threads with all the questions and comments you wan to make...don't necro like 4 threads that are over 2 years old!


Sorry, not familiar with the term necro - but I'm guessing from the context it has to do with commenting on old threads...

I was searching for threads related to eidolons since I had questions myself. Didn't notice the threads were older, apologies...


Dude... Ossian... if it's wrongbadfun to revive an old thread, shouldn't you be private messaging Synjon instead of posting?

Srsly, don't be a d*ck.

Liberty's Edge

Interesting...
In our Rise of the Runelords campaign, the GM ruled that my eidolon and I use the same initiative. Of course, my summoner is a halfling, mounted on his quadruped eidolon, so we treat the pair more as a cavalier and his mount.
I guess it depends on the exact situation.


Some people whine if you necro a thread. Some whine if you start a new thread on a topic if the question has been answered before. I think if you are trying to ask a question either method is ok. If you are trying to answer a question then I would check the date. Not checking the date does not make you a bad person, but normally the answer is already on the forums if the thread is over a few months old.

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