Ladies and Gentlemen,
I have loved and enjoyed ST:1 and I'm looking forward to seeing the two sequels.
However, lurking in some discussions and gathering the pieces, I am getting the impression, that due to some facts, we may not see them.
The lack of PoD hurts the sales and the fact, that is has not yet been updated to PFRPG doesn't help either.
However, I really hope to see the sequels, and thus would like to propose earnestly something DitheringFool wrote in one of the threads:
If we don't get to see a regular release of the sequels, what about a patronage project as a kind of alternative?
Do you guys think it would be an option that the demon lords would consider? Greg, would you be willing to consider such a model?
I'd be willing to pay quite a bunch of bucks to hold them both in my hands...
What do you think?
Greetings,
Endzeitgeist
First of all: Thank you for writing ST1!
Although I have enjoyed all of the "lost" books when I purchased them on their release, Slumbering Tsar 1 has been my favorite, tops.
I'd be willing to surrender any kind of influence normally associated with a patronage project and just pay for having the completed books.
Also, once drivethru's PoD FINALLY kicks off, the physical copy shouldn't be a problem anymore.
I wouldn't even require fancy artwork or the like (although it is always a nice plus to have). I was e.g. totally content with the hand-drawn maps for "The Spider God's Bride". Everything apart from some maps and an edited text is kind of a bonus for me.
That being said, I am really hoping that ST 2 and 3 can somehow be published via a patronage-like publishing option. I also hereby assure you, that I'd be willing to invest quite some money in a patronage for the books.
Just so that you know I'm serious: I will keep 300$ (150$ per Book) of my gaming budget on the sidelines for the possibility of an option like that. That is how much I want to see these books. I'd even be willing to pay more, but then I'd want them signed.
To honor the traditions of Orcus, in blood, of course. ;)
Just kidding. About the blood, not the signing. ;D
Thank you very much for the quick response!
I hope the demon lords see it fit for the mortal populace to tremble under the terrifying glory of ST 2 and 3...
Greetings from Norway,
Endzeitgeist
I'd be up for a patronage model for this....
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I would love to see these get made. But after talking to Greg when I reviewed ST1 I was left under the impression that 2 and 3 are basically... well done. As far as the writing side goes. Not sure about stat blocks. I do believe it needs maps, art, layout and edit still.
I think the problem is for patron projects you are normally talking those involved get a say in the writing and direction of the project. So unless Greg wants to go back and change stuff.
Of course Greg correct me if I am wrong and misunderstood what you meant when we talked about this.
So while a patron project might not work, perhaps something else could be worked out. Maybe just a fund to pay for the book productions and maybe get ST1 brought up to pathfinder as well. Assuming it could be done and enough money raised for the project. I still think sales would be better if it was Pathfinder compatible and sold here at Paizo as well.
I would love to see these get made. But after talking to Greg when I reviewed ST1 I was left under the impression that 2 and 3 are basically... well done. As far as the writing side goes. Not sure about stat blocks. I do believe it needs maps, art, layout and edit still.
I think the problem is for patron projects you are normally talking those involved get a say in the writing and direction of the project. So unless Greg wants to go back and change stuff.
Of course Greg correct me if I am wrong and misunderstood what you meant when we talked about this.
So while a patron project might not work, perhaps something else could be worked out. Maybe just a fund to pay for the book productions and maybe get ST1 brought up to pathfinder as well. Assuming it could be done and enough money raised for the project. I still think sales would be better if it was Pathfinder compatible and sold here at Paizo as well.
I would pay for this.
Oh, and where can I get ST1 ?
@sharoth:
You can pick a copy of ST 1 here:
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=64632
I agree with you, DM. I would be content with a fund-like model and not necessarily require Greg to modify the sequels. (Although some minor modifications might be tempting...) ;)
That's exactly what I was trying to suggest, Greg!
I'd just love to see your adventures and if we get additional goodies: All the better! :D
Regards,
Endzeitgeist
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It would help if people that could do some stuff would do it for free.
Like say if someone was good enough at making maps would do the maps for free/exchange for a copy of the book. Stuff like that would make it a lot easier to get it published. Then add in people willing to pay for the books before they even see "print" to pay for other stuff., like art etc.
Personally I think it could be done, it just might not be something done for profit. Just something done to break even and just get it out there. Of course i have no clue on the cost of making this stuff, so take anything I say with a big grain of salt.
i'd volunteer to do the maps, but, well, y'know... :P
Y'know what? I know lots of things. Like 1 + 1 = 11. So what do y'know, Matt?
I would think the Demon Lords will need to see how Tsar 1 does once the PoD option is ready before commiting to anything else.
I just wanted to say that I am very excited about this project.
It also won't be all that difficult for John and I to get ST1 material up on d20PFSRD, it's just that there's so much work to be done and only 4 or 5 of us actually doing it right now. ;)
Pale Writer: Scribe of the Apocalypse.
@d20pfsrd & Pale:
Your help is greatly appreciated! Anything that potentially boosts the sales of ST1 brings us closer to our goal of enabling Greg to publish ST 2 + 3. Thank you very much for your offer!
Greetings,
Endzeitgeist
As far as I'm concerned, I'd be happy to drop a reasonable amount on this sort of project. I wouldn't expect - or particularly want - any involvement with the content. Greg... you wrote the stuff, that's what I want to play. That being said, yeah, update to PFRPG rules would be good.
An interesting option there might be that paid patrons could get access to existing statblocks, and we could update them and present them back. Essentially instead of having input as to the module content, we could help update statblocks.
Just a thought.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I'm running ST #1 under the Pathfinder rules, and there's some serious translation work, simply because most of the characters the party has encountered have class levels that need reloading. If ST #2 and 3 were already in Pathfinder stats, it would make my life a little easier.
Having said that, there's something to be said about releasing them under the 3.5 rules system. It would make the set complete. (In the same way, I'm glad Paizo didn't switch over to the Pathfinder system halfway through an Adventure Path.) Plus, it would be less work for Greg.
I'll say two things:
1. As soon as POD is available, I'll be buying this for PF or regular 3.5...or even 3.0!
2. I WANT part 2 and 3!
I'd pay money for them as well. Guaranteed sale...right here! (If in print..on demand or otherwise.)
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Here is what Bill posted over at Necromancer games forum.
Ok; thoughts only, no promises....if we were to do all of Slumbering Tsar, as a subscription ebook (30 chapters, like $10-15/3 chapter intervals in pdf (about 40-60 pages), would peeps buy it? What about if you got a (heavily) discounted POD hardcover (e.g. at cost of printing and shipping, e.g. <$20) if you bought all installments? Would you rather just have a pre-order only $125 book instead? Pathfinder or 3.5? CC? 4.0 is not an option.
500+ pages of great stuff--but art and maps (maps especially) are prohibitive without many subscribers (need at least 40). Greg, Clark and I want it all to see the light of day, but don't have the $10k or so to do so.
Am I crazy? If I do this its gonna take a heck of a lot of time for almost no money--but I will. I also promise another book; ok Sword of Air; if thgis works. I have never lied to you guys. Is this a dumb idea?[/qoute]
I'd certainly buy a 500+ page hardcover of the entire ST trilogy for $125. (I really enjoyed Ptolus and thought it was easily worth the $150.)
But really... why can't the PDFs just be appropriately priced? What's the problem? It's simply not acceptable - in any way, shape, or form - to charge $30 for an electronic document.
I'd buy the PDFs that are out right now for $15 (appropriate for an e-doc) or even $20 just to support NG and 3.5... but not $30. Not even $25. I really don't understand the crazy e-doc pricing.
The ebook sub sounds promising, but $10 for 40 pages doesn't really cut it unless everything is in full color and the maps are spectacular. $10 for 60 pages sounds a tiny bit better, but still lousy. [But all this talk about 'number of pages' is completely and utterly USELESS until I see font size and margin size.]
I suppose if this is the pricing we're looking at, NG really is dead.
Creative Director
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I'd certainly buy a 500+ page hardcover of the entire ST trilogy for $125. (I really enjoyed Ptolus and thought it was easily worth the $150.)
But really... why can't the PDFs just be appropriately priced? What's the problem? It's simply not acceptable - in any way, shape, or form - to charge $30 for an electronic document.
I'd buy the PDFs that are out right now for $15 (appropriate for an e-doc) or even $20 just to support NG and 3.5... but not $30. Not even $25. I really don't understand the crazy e-doc pricing.
The ebook sub sounds promising, but $10 for 40 pages doesn't really cut it unless everything is in full color and the maps are spectacular. $10 for 60 pages sounds a tiny bit better, but still lousy. [But all this talk about 'number of pages' is completely and utterly USELESS until I see font size and margin size.]
I suppose if this is the pricing we're looking at, NG really is dead.
Although shipping and printing DO cost money... they're not the only costs incurred by creating a book. Here's a list of other things that need to be paid: Authors, Artists, Graphic Designers, Editors, Developers, Project Leads, PDF creators... and on top of that, the creator needs to actually make that money back and then some to earn an income on sales of the product.
Creating a PDF product really only saves money for a content creator in two areas: Shipping the product and printing the product (I suppose there's a third area—paying for the product's storage/warehousing/taxes on old products). But the costs for the other elements I listed above are NOT insignificant.
As a result, the "right" price for a PDF is, honestly, what the market can bear. If you charge less, you'll likely sell more, but if you charge more, you can STILL make more money overall as long as the total copies sold don't dip below the threshold of what you could have made selling at a lower price. If you sell 10 copies at $30.00, that's better than selling three times as many copies at $3.00, after all.
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The ebook sub sounds promising, but $10 for 40 pages doesn't really cut it unless everything is in full color and the maps are spectacular. $10 for 60 pages sounds a tiny bit better, but still lousy. [But all this talk about 'number of pages' is completely and utterly USELESS until I see font size and margin size.]
I suppose if this is the pricing we're looking at, NG really is dead.
Keep in mind that cost of 10 bucks for 40 pages of PDF, does include a print book shipped to you when they are all done. So it is not just the cost of the PDF but that includes paying for the book.
And Bill says....it's a go!
(With details coming soon.)
Yay!!!!
Although shipping and printing DO cost money... they're not the only costs incurred by creating a book. Here's a list of other things that need to be paid: Authors, Artists, Graphic Designers, Editors, Developers, Project Leads, PDF creators... and on top of that, the creator needs to actually make that money back and then some to earn an income on sales of the product.
Creating a PDF product really only saves money for a content creator in two areas: Shipping the product and printing the product (I suppose there's a third area—paying for the product's storage/warehousing/taxes on old products). But the costs for the other elements I listed above are NOT insignificant.
As a result, the "right" price for a PDF is, honestly, what the market can bear. If you charge less, you'll likely sell more, but if you charge more, you can STILL make more money overall as long as the total copies sold don't dip below the threshold of what you could have made selling at a lower price. If you sell 10 copies at $30.00, that's better than selling three times as many copies at $3.00
Sure - I am a professional accountant after all (cost accountant, no less). My post is just expressing... doubt... that the most recent NG PDFs will gain greater revenue by selling them at $30 over... something less.
In the end, it's still just an electronic document, regardless of the work that went into it.
It's an electronic document and a portion of the final hardcover, print document which will be included with the purchase of the pdfs.
That's confirmed? (it certainly wasn't in the statement that Dark_Mistress quoted)
Very good news!
(And thanks for the note on word count - that's the type of metric I want to see, so customers can make informed decisions.)
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Arnwyn thats what Bill says over at Necro.
The pdf subscription would be "free" if you were getting the hardcover at the end...actually would sort of act like a discount coupon for the actual book. What the real intent would be is to avoid a) a huge check/paypal etc all at once and b)allow for higher quality (e.g. expensive) maps to be made for each installment as the prior would pay for the next.
Yes. I read the preview a couple of weeks ago of the initial one, but was really wanting to see what was going to be coming of the rest of it. (I know this is WAY later than a lot of the folks out there who actually bought the 1st when it came out) However, the story is very intriguing, and the way they're putting it out is definitely a win for me. I'm just keeping my eyes on the thread to find out when they come up with details where to pay =p.
Awesome. I have been waiting literally years for this to come together.
So it will be released in 'chapters' via PDF until a book will be printed that those who bought all the PDFs will get for free/cheap? Is there going to be separate books for Part 2 and Part 3 or will they wait until it's all done to print "Part 2 & 3"?
I think if it looks like it's going well by the time Part 2 is done, Part 1 should be re-done with PRPG stats (and whatever updates), it would make the series more appealing IMHO.
I just hope my character doesn't die in the Desolation before then :-)
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So it will be released in 'chapters' via PDF until a book will be printed that those who bought all the PDFs will get for free/cheap? Is there going to be separate books for Part 2 and Part 3 or will they wait until it's all done to print "Part 2 & 3"?
I think if it looks like it's going well by the time Part 2 is done, Part 1 should be re-done with PRPG stats (and whatever updates), it would make the series more appealing IMHO.
I just hope my character doesn't die in the Desolation before then :-)
My understanding is this. ST1 will be brought up to PFRPG and it will be the first one to go out as PDF's. The maps are done so all it needs is the stat block conversions which gives them more time to order stuff for part 2. Also yes my understanding is if you buy the PDF subscription that once it is done you will get a printed hardback book. It will contain all 3 Slumbering Tsar books. Least so far that looks like thats the plan.