Delaying feat selection?

[Robert Young]

Disenchanter wrote:

What I have been saying, is that the rule isn't clear enough to assume that everyone can simply understand from constantly quoting the same damn rule.

This is a fine position to take, as there aren't any rules in existence that can meet this standard. My dog, btw, hasn't declared one way or the other when feat selection should occur according to the RAW, but he's busy licking himself....

[Dissinger]

Disenchanter wrote:

meatrace wrote:

Disenchanter wrote:

Then I am later shown to have a clue about what I speak...

This part actually hasn't happened.

You keep saying that the rules don't say WHEN you have to choose a feat,

Selective reading at its' finest...

What I have been saying, is that the rule isn't clear enough to assume that everyone can simply understand from constantly quoting the same damn rule.

Try catching up this time.

Actually, what you've been saying is the rule doesn't say when you have to make a feat selection.

Way to move the goal posts.

[Disenchanter]

That was a pathetic attempt at stirring up shit again.

And you accused me of trolling...

[TriOmegaZero]

That was a pathetic attempt to continue the discussion. I recommend we just let the thread die. I don't think we have anything new to add.

[LazarX]

Chris Mortika wrote:

The AD&D DMG strongly advised DMs to introduce replacement characters at Level 1.

The one-level-lower might have been your friends' policy, and it's not a bad one, but it's not the way things were done "in the old days".

That's probably because your characters weren't supposed to make it beyond third level anyway.

But implementing such a rule on running a module like "Tomb of Horrors" would be nothing but an exercise in pure sadism.

[Wilhem]

TriOmegaZero wrote:

That was a pathetic attempt to continue the discussion. I recommend we just let the thread die. I don't think we have anything new to add.

+1. April fools was over. This is no longer amusing...

[Bruno Kristensen]

If it was for back story, I might think it was ok, but it isn't.

The guy is playing a monk and wants weapon focus (unarmed) at first level.

The guy is fairly notorious for being a power gamer too...

[Swallowed Pride]

I love old threads.

I think one could take a feat later. On the grounds that a player might not qualify for any feat he wants. I would still say you could only gain feats on level up. Meaning not picking up a feat when you get it means your next attempt to pick a feat would be at next level. The Delay Feat idea is a great one for doing just that.

In a hypothetical sense if someone gains a level and a feat on that level and they wanted none of any feats they qualify for would you just say they get one less feat then?

My final thought on the matter is delaying a feat is hardly munchkin. If feats are so glorious as to garner cheating then every class should take one level of fighter. +2 Fort(similar to Great Fortitude), free bonus feat spendable on any combat feat(two if you take unbreakable archetype but it must be Endurance and Die Hard or unarmed fighter for Improved Unarmed Strike and any Style feat). Alternately one level of wizard is worth 3 feats. +2 Will(Similar to Iron Will) and a Familiar that can grant the effective bonuses for Improved Initiative, Great Fort, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes and Skill Focus for just +3 on a select set of skills, all which are untyped and stack with the actual feats for a doubling bonus(Improve Initiative for +8 Init before Dex).

I think the only reason someone would delay a feat is to stay in the rules. The character in question wants to save his feat for next level so he can take EWP as early as possible. That is to adhere to the rules in essence and character concept. The other options are to ask for an exception ignoring the rules through gm law or wait till a later level and have a concept flipped on its head. An anything character concept who uses something for two levels while being bad at it sounds just as bad as a character who goes 1 level without a feat.

[Claxon]

This thread is mostly irrelevant now, with the retraining rules from Ultimate Campaign he can pay a little money and retrain that feat to Exotic Weapon proficiency once he reaches +1 BAB. Per the retraining rules you can retrain any general feat to any other as long as you currently qualify for the feat. Meaning you do not have to choose a feat that you could have selected at the level when you receieved it, and thus being always unable to qualify for it with your first feat since you would always have BAB 0 at rogue 1.

[Smite Makes Right]

Isn't there also a trait now that gives you proficiency in a chosen weapon.?

[Claxon]

Smite Makes Right wrote:

Isn't there also a trait now that gives you proficiency in a chosen weapon.?

There is a trait, whose name I forget, that grants you proficiency with a specific weapon. Be careful as its that specific weapon, not all weapons of that type. If your weapon were ever destroyed you've lost proficiency. You also can't carry backups of that weapon because you wont be proficient with the others.

It's something to with inherited or something like that...

Edit: Heirloom Weapon. It also works on simple or martial weapons, not exotic.

[Rogar Stonebow]

Homebrew feat

Delayed Studies
This fest allows you to delay two feats of your choosing until later levels.

This allows for a delay without a lot of abuse.

The gain out weighs the lost feat. But not by a lot.

Also, you have to take the feat during game play. Otherwise it isnt much of s delay.

[Kazaan]

Wasn't there some talk a while back by one of the Devs to change it such that you can take any feat at any level, but just not be able to use it until you satisfy the prereqs? So a Rogue with BAB+0 would be able to take Weapon Focus or Proficiency at lvl 1, but just not gain the benefit until they meet the prereq: BAB +1 at lvl 2. What ever happened to that?

[Smite Makes Right]

Claxon wrote:

Smite Makes Right wrote:

Isn't there also a trait now that gives you proficiency in a chosen weapon.?

There is a trait, whose name I forget, that grants you proficiency with a specific weapon. Be careful as its that specific weapon, not all weapons of that type. If your weapon were ever destroyed you've lost proficiency. You also can't carry backups of that weapon because you wont be proficient with the others.

It's something to with inherited or something like that...

Edit: Heirloom Weapon. It also works on simple or martial weapons, not exotic.

If I remember correctly, it's a different, better trait. It's referenced in the trait guide and it is described as better than heirloom weapon after the nerf.

[Claxon]

Smite Makes Right wrote:

Claxon wrote:

Smite Makes Right wrote:

Isn't there also a trait now that gives you proficiency in a chosen weapon.?

There is a trait, whose name I forget, that grants you proficiency with a specific weapon. Be careful as its that specific weapon, not all weapons of that type. If your weapon were ever destroyed you've lost proficiency. You also can't carry backups of that weapon because you wont be proficient with the others.

It's something to with inherited or something like that...

Edit: Heirloom Weapon. It also works on simple or martial weapons, not exotic.

If I remember correctly, it's a different, better trait. It's referenced in the trait guide and it is described as better than heirloom weapon after the nerf.

Nope. But you're thinking of this from the Guide to Traits:

Quote:

Sword Scion - You begin play with a longsword or Aldori dueling sword and gain a +1 trait bonus on all attacks and combat maneuvers made with such weapons. So this trait is full of win. Its like Heirloom Weapon before it was nerfed. Take the Aldori dueling sword. It's an exotic weapon but can be used without the exotic weapon proficiency as a longsword. If you take the proficiency it can be used with Weapon Finesse, or can be two handed like a Bastard Sword. One of the best weapons in the game and you get a free +1 to hit AND to combat maneuvers with it. (Thats better then Weapon Focus and it stacks with it). I wish I had a better color than purple.

So it doesn't give you proficiency in the Aldori dueling sword, and if you don't have proficiency in the longsword you are really up shit creek.

[LazarX]

Ainslan wrote:

Also, I always was a strong proponent of: "If it is not expressly disallowed, it is allowed". (Barring the basic assumptions of real life physics applications for the sake of verisimilitude).

That's not how the rules system is built. Otherwise you'd have nonsense such as "There's no rule that says I can't take actions as a dead man." The system rules aren't built on denying you actions, and options, but allowing them.

[Ughbash]

Solution is rather simple.

1) Buy any feat at level 1.
2) At level two spend some gold and downtime to retrain.

Note this is also how second level characters can get Dervish Dance.

[Smite Makes Right]

Claxon wrote:

Smite Makes Right wrote:

Claxon wrote:

Smite Makes Right wrote:

Isn't there also a trait now that gives you proficiency in a chosen weapon.?

There is a trait, whose name I forget, that grants you proficiency with a specific weapon. Be careful as its that specific weapon, not all weapons of that type. If your weapon were ever destroyed you've lost proficiency. You also can't carry backups of that weapon because you wont be proficient with the others.

It's something to with inherited or something like that...

Edit: Heirloom Weapon. It also works on simple or martial weapons, not exotic.

If I remember correctly, it's a different, better trait. It's referenced in the trait guide and it is described as better than heirloom weapon after the nerf.

Nope. But you're thinking of this from the Guide to Traits:

Quote:

Sword Scion - You begin play with a longsword or Aldori dueling sword and gain a +1 trait bonus on all attacks and combat maneuvers made with such weapons. So this trait is full of win. Its like Heirloom Weapon before it was nerfed. Take the Aldori dueling sword. It's an exotic weapon but can be used without the exotic weapon proficiency as a longsword. If you take the proficiency it can be used with Weapon Finesse, or can be two handed like a Bastard Sword. One of the best weapons in the game and you get a free +1 to hit AND to combat maneuvers with it. (Thats better then Weapon Focus and it stacks with it). I wish I had a better color than purple.

That's it. Thanks. I couldn't pull up Google Docs on my phone to check that it did what I thought it did. Well, there's still retraining.

So it doesn't give you proficiency in the Aldori dueling sword, and if you don't have proficiency in the longsword you are really up s@## creek.

[maouse]

Nope, but if you retrain your feats later on (Ultimate Campaign p188) you can basically take whatever feats you want (so long as you don't use a pre-req feat). In other words, once you get to +11 BAB or whatever, you can change your old low level feat out for something that has that requirement. Costs gold and time. But it is a "sort of way" to "delay" taking feats.