"Enlarge Person" + Strongarm Bracers... Should they stack?, Input Appreciated.


Rules Questions


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A character wearing "Strongarm Bracers" from the Magic Item Compendium (see below) and who undergoes the effect of an "Enlarge Person" spell, does the damage dice of the weapon carried by the user increase another size category or just one?, from reading both, it would seem it would increase another step.

Quote:

Strongarm Bracers on Page 139

Price 6000 GP
Body Slot Arms
Caster Level 3rd
Aura Faint Transmutation (DC 16)
Activation None
Weight 1lb

When wearing Strongarm Bracers you can weild weapons as if you were one size category larger than normal (You dont take any penalty when using weapons as normal for your actual size). For example, a human wearing these bracers could weild Large or Medium weapons without penalty.
The effect of these bracers does not stack with the Powerful Build trait (such as that possessed by the Goliath and Half-Giant races).

Prequisites Craft Wondrous Item, Enlarge Person

The prequisite spell for the item is Enlarge Person, even though the item causes no actual change in the characters size, whereas the spell itself causes the character and all their possessions to grow to the next size category.

Now...does this weapon increase in size that is carried?, if so it'd increase in size by two steps (in total, one from being large one from the spell). A player in my group says it should, since the item specifically mentions that the only effect it doesnt stack with is the Powerful Build trait and since the characters actual size is unchanged, he could still undergo an Enlarge Person spell.

Which would happen...

A) The characters weapon increases in actual size, just as the spell says it would (since the actual carried weapon is naturally large for a medium size character and not magically enlarged already, the bracers simply allow you to use it without penalty), and the weapons damage dice increase by one more step than it already was by becoming huge.

B) The Enlarge Person effect of the spell doesnt stack with the weapon for the purposes of increasing damage dice though you'd get all the benefits and penalties of the spell normally.

In addition, what would a d12 damage weapon like a Greataxe be when increased two steps?, I had to go back to my old 3.5 DMG to find out as the Pathfinder book did not cover it...according to the DMG it'd be 4d6, is this right?!

I'd appreciate some feedback from anyone, thanks.


Seeing as it overlaps with the powerful build trait, which stacks with Enlarge Person, then it should also stack with Enlarge Person (or Righteous Might, or any other effect that magically increases your size.

So, A.

1) A medium human wears Strongarm Bracers and can use medium and large weapons. Then gets Enlarge Person cast on him-increases to Large and can use large or huge weapons.

2) A half giant has the powerful build trait and can use medium and large weapons. Then gets Enlarge Person cast on him-increases to Large and can use large or huge weapons.

same effect.


After taking longer to read the information than Tanis, I have come to the same conclusion. They should stack as per option A.


Thanks for your input ^_^


Mauril wrote:
After taking longer to read the information than Tanis, I have come to the same conclusion. They should stack as per option A.

I concur. The magic item allows you to wield larger weapons. It is more like monkey grip and similar feats. It doesn't actually change the size of the weapon.

Now if you had a spell called "enlarge item" and you cast if on a medium sword to make is a large sword, then used these bracers to wield it you would be fine, but when you cast enlarge person the sword would remain a large sword, because the enlarge weapon, and enlarge person spells wouldn't stack.


You're correct in A. If your Strongarm Bracer wearing character is already carrying around a large sized weapon, then the enlarge person spell will enlarge it again.

One quick note though, Half Giants are not legal targets for Enlarge Person, normally. They are Type: Giant, not Type: Humanoid and Enlarge Person requires a Humanoid target.

So if your Stongarm Bracer wearing character is a Half Giant then the Enlarge person spell would simply fail when cast on them.


Gilfalas wrote:

You're correct in A. If your Strongarm Bracer wearing character is already carrying around a large sized weapon, then the enlarge person spell will enlarge it again.

One quick note though, Half Giants are not legal targets for Enlarge Person, normally. They are Type: Giant, not Type: Humanoid and Enlarge Person requires a Humanoid target.

So if your Stongarm Bracer wearing character is a Half Giant then the Enlarge person spell would simply fail when cast on them.

Giants are a subtype of humanoids in PF, thus they are legal targets for any X person spell.


Gilfalas wrote:


One quick note though, Half Giants are not legal targets for Enlarge Person, normally. They are Type: Giant, not Type: Humanoid and Enlarge Person requires a Humanoid target.

The giant type has been removed from the pathfinder game.... everything that was of the giant type in 3.5 is now of the humanoid type (with the giant subtype)... thus they are legal targets for such things as enlarge person (and charm person, and hold person,etc).


cwslyclgh wrote:
Gilfalas wrote:


One quick note though, Half Giants are not legal targets for Enlarge Person, normally. They are Type: Giant, not Type: Humanoid and Enlarge Person requires a Humanoid target.

The giant type has been removed from the pathfinder game.... everything that was of the giant type in 3.5 is now of the humanoid type (with the giant subtype)... thus they are legal targets for such things as enlarge person (and charm person, and hold person,etc).

Why bless both of you. I had not noticed that. I now need to pester our mage to get a wand of Enlarge Person for use on my Half Giant Warblade!

Thank you both for the correction!

Now to get it by my Ref...


Gilfalas wrote:


Why bless both of you. I had not noticed that. I now need to pester our mage to get a wand of Enlarge Person for use on my Half Giant Warblade!

Thank you both for the correction!

Now to get it by my Ref...

good luck with that ;P


Thanks everyone for your continued input.

The character in question is a Human Fighter 8th/Barbarian 6th, weilding a Large +1 Adamantine Greataxe of Collision ( +2 ability from the Magic Item Compendium D&D sourcebook that adds a flat +5 damage to the weapon).
I charged him twice the normal 3'000GP cost for an Adamantine Weapon (though he tried to state it was a flat addition after calculating the size and cost of a Large weapon, I said logically it'd take twice as much Adamantine to make, thus the cost...he reluctantly agreed).

Thanks to your input, I have an concrete answer for all of this, I was more or less going along your line of thinking...but one question remains, does a Large Greataxe (3d6 damage) increase to 4d6 when the whole character is "Enlarged"?, reading the old 3.5 DMG it seems so.

With full Power Attack, Weapon Specialisation, 2 Handed Damage, 10ft Reach from "Enlarge", high strength (high 20's, stats plus items), Rage, etc...hes throwing out 4d6 + 33 damage per hit using this...ouch!


Princess Of Canada wrote:

Thanks everyone for your continued input.

The character in question is a Human Fighter 8th/Barbarian 6th, weilding a Large +1 Adamantine Greataxe of Collision ( +2 ability from the Magic Item Compendium D&D sourcebook that adds a flat +5 damage to the weapon).
I charged him twice the normal 3'000GP cost for an Adamantine Weapon (though he tried to state it was a flat addition after calculating the size and cost of a Large weapon, I said logically it'd take twice as much Adamantine to make, thus the cost...he reluctantly agreed).

Thanks to your input, I have an concrete answer for all of this, I was more or less going along your line of thinking...but one question remains, does a Large Greataxe (3d6 damage) increase to 4d6 when the whole character is "Enlarged"?, reading the old 3.5 DMG it seems so.

With full Power Attack, Weapon Specialisation, 2 Handed Damage, 10ft Reach from "Enlarge", high strength (high 20's, stats plus items), Rage, etc...hes throwing out 4d6 + 33 damage per hit using this...ouch!

4d6 weapon, not bad! Sounds like your player needs the vital strike feat chain for those opening charges (eventually 16d6+!!)


Princess Of Canada wrote:

Thanks everyone for your continued input.

The character in question is a Human Fighter 8th/Barbarian 6th, weilding a Large +1 Adamantine Greataxe of Collision ( +2 ability from the Magic Item Compendium D&D sourcebook that adds a flat +5 damage to the weapon).
I charged him twice the normal 3'000GP cost for an Adamantine Weapon (though he tried to state it was a flat addition after calculating the size and cost of a Large weapon, I said logically it'd take twice as much Adamantine to make, thus the cost...he reluctantly agreed).

Thanks to your input, I have an concrete answer for all of this, I was more or less going along your line of thinking...but one question remains, does a Large Greataxe (3d6 damage) increase to 4d6 when the whole character is "Enlarged"?, reading the old 3.5 DMG it seems so.

With full Power Attack, Weapon Specialisation, 2 Handed Damage, 10ft Reach from "Enlarge", high strength (high 20's, stats plus items), Rage, etc...hes throwing out 4d6 + 33 damage per hit using this...ouch!

Yes the weapon base damage increases.


Princess Of Canada wrote:


Thanks to your input, I have an concrete answer for all of this, I was more or less going along your line of thinking...but one question remains, does a Large Greataxe (3d6 damage) increase to 4d6 when the whole character is "Enlarged"?, reading the old 3.5 DMG it seems so.

I believe the next increment would be 3d8 not 4d6 judging from the weapons damage chart in the equipment section.


Otsego wrote:
Princess Of Canada wrote:


Thanks to your input, I have an concrete answer for all of this, I was more or less going along your line of thinking...but one question remains, does a Large Greataxe (3d6 damage) increase to 4d6 when the whole character is "Enlarged"?, reading the old 3.5 DMG it seems so.
I believe the next increment would be 3d8 not 4d6 judging from the weapons damage chart in the equipment section.

a huge greatsword deals 4d6 according to the storm giant entry in the bestiary, a huge great axe should do the same.

The Exchange

Inconvenience wrote:
Princess Of Canada wrote:

Thanks everyone for your continued input.

The character in question is a Human Fighter 8th/Barbarian 6th, weilding a Large +1 Adamantine Greataxe of Collision ( +2 ability from the Magic Item Compendium D&D sourcebook that adds a flat +5 damage to the weapon).
I charged him twice the normal 3'000GP cost for an Adamantine Weapon (though he tried to state it was a flat addition after calculating the size and cost of a Large weapon, I said logically it'd take twice as much Adamantine to make, thus the cost...he reluctantly agreed).

Thanks to your input, I have an concrete answer for all of this, I was more or less going along your line of thinking...but one question remains, does a Large Greataxe (3d6 damage) increase to 4d6 when the whole character is "Enlarged"?, reading the old 3.5 DMG it seems so.

With full Power Attack, Weapon Specialisation, 2 Handed Damage, 10ft Reach from "Enlarge", high strength (high 20's, stats plus items), Rage, etc...hes throwing out 4d6 + 33 damage per hit using this...ouch!

4d6 weapon, not bad! Sounds like your player needs the vital strike feat chain for those opening charges (eventually 16d6+!!)

while vital strikes would be ideal for a multi dice weapon like this. a charger gets no benefit from it. as you get an attack at the end of a charge not a standard action and as per the feats discription using vital strikes requires a standard action. now what you can do is walk up to the guy and take one attack while forgoing the benefits of charging. i ran into the same problem with a barbarian i built.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Just be glad he didn't blow an EWP on Heavy Weapon and give it another virtual size increase.

==Aelryinth


Lead Blades anyone?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

:) Lead blades would stack with the HEavy Weapon template. Yeah, with a Ranger level and a feat that guy could be swinging around 8-48 damage weapons...

==Aelryinth

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