Battle of the Tarn


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Our GM has lured our two-man party into an arena battle.

The contestants?

A 15th-level fire sorceress and a 15th-level summoner versus a tarn linnorm.

He ended the game on a cliff hangar as we were entering the arena, giving us just enough time to cast spells as needed before the battle begins.

How on earth are we supposed to win against that thing? It's just the two of us versus a CR 20! The arena is a confined space, most of which is taken up by the Tarn and all of which is covered by his threatened area. To my knowledge, there is nothing keeping us in the arena, but I don't think it will matter as the Tarn can fly faster than we can and it is capable of teleporting anyways. Even if we could, fleeing is not really the goal of the arena battle.

We have a week before the next game in order to prepare a strategy. Please help save us from TPK.


Before I begin, that is just mean.

What spells do you have available? Better yet tell us everything you can.

If you teleport out it has to way to determine where you went, other than DM Fiat, and if he uses that at teleport again to an open space. Fighting big monsters in closed areas is not a good idea. My first goal would be to not fight on its terms.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
wraithstrike wrote:

Before I begin, that is just mean.

What spells do you have available? Better yet tell us everything you can.

I've posted links to the monster in question, an image of the arena, and detailed character sheets in the form of downloadable PDFs. What more CAN I tell you? :P

We were supposed to fight a series of encounters against vicious high level monsters in the arena. First we fought a pair of CR 10 stone golems which was single-handedly dispatched by my eidolon (he constricted one until it was destroyed, and than beat the other golem to rubble with the former golem's remains).

I strongly suspect the Tarn was born of the GM's shock as to how easily the golems were vanquished (though I can't imagine why on account of their CR compared to our level) as well as his desire to use the rarely seen colossal red dragon mini. All three of us (sorcerer, summoner, and eidolon) could fly. The golems never stood a chance. Now I feel we are on the flip side. We don't seem to stand a chance against the legendary tarn linnorm, a beast that would be a nigh impossible challenge for a full 15th-level party, much less just a lowly duo.

wraithstrike wrote:
If you teleport out it has to way to determine where you went, other than DM Fiat, and if he uses that at teleport again to an open space. Fighting big monsters in closed areas is not a good idea. My first goal would be to not fight on its terms.

Did you mean to say that it has NO way of determining where we went? If so, I think you are probably right (at least, I certainly hope you are).

As far as I know, we can leave the arena, but we are still expected to fight the thing. Got any ideas for putting the fight on our own terms? We are in the Pathfinder campaign setting, though non of us (GM included) are terribly familiar (I'm the only one with a campaign guide).


Ravingdork wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:

Before I begin, that is just mean.

What spells do you have available? Better yet tell us everything you can.

I've posted links to the monster in question, an image of the arena, and detailed character sheets in the form of downloadable PDFs. What more CAN I tell you? :P

We were supposed to fight a series of encounters against vicious high level monsters in the arena. First we fought a pair of CR 10 stone golems which we single-handedly dispatched by my eidolon (he constricted on until it was destroyed, than beat the other golem to rubble with its remains).

I strongly suspect the Tarn was born of the GM's shock as to how easily the golems were vanquished (though I can't imagine why on account of their CR compared to our level) as well as his desire to use the rarely seen colossal red dragon mini. All three of us (sorcerer, summoner, and eidolon) could fly. Golems never stood a chance.

wraithstrike wrote:
If you teleport out it has to way to determine where you went, other than DM Fiat, and if he uses that at teleport again to an open space. Fighting big monsters in closed areas is not a good idea. My first goal would be to not fight on its terms.

Did you mean to say that it has NO way of determining where we went? If so, I think you are probably right (at least, I certainly hope you are).

As far as I know, we can leave the arena, but we are still expected to fight the thing. Got any ideas for putting the fight on our own terms? We are in the Pathfinder campaign setting, though non of us (GM included) are terribly familiar (I'm the only one with a campaign guide).

As for tracing your teleport it is really really hard to do, if he stays within core. He could scry, but you get a save against that, and at your level the save should not be too hard. Unless he has rules stating the fight has to take place inside the arena I would try to fight outside the arena. As for putting the fight on your terms, fighting in an open area or a closed area that is big enough for you to stay out of attack of opportunity range, but big enough to stop the Tarn from flying is a good idea. Basically giving him access to the entire party all the time is not what you want.

PS: I just noticed the arena link. If that is the arena size then you should be able to move about some.

If I can get a spell list I can probably think of something.

What is the Eidolon's attack bonus?

Edit: Feats are important also.


Damn! That's a mean DM. Flee. Just flee. With SR31 your magic-heavy party is straight up dead.

Teleport away and never come back. And talk to the DM and explain why you did it, so he doesn't try to force you to battle it again (or, could give you a better chance. Saying for example that that tarn is SO old it's venerable, moves at half speed, and blind as well. Then you might have a chance to outmaneouver it.

So my spell suggestion: Teleport.


Or ruin it's SR with 'Assay Spell Resistance' (Spell Comp.) then destroy it's saves with 'Crushing Despair' and 'Bestow Curse'.

Then go to town (to sell all your linnorm scales :).


Tanis wrote:

Or ruin it's SR with 'Assay Spell Resistance' (Spell Comp.) then destroy it's saves with 'Crushing Despair' and 'Bestow Curse'.

Then go to town (to sell all your linnorm scales :).

Which reminds me what books are available?


[edit: several posts above came in while I typed this...including the spell I was looking for. I did not have a chance to look at the PDFs of the PCs...sorry!]

Uh...wow. So by "lured you into it" do we take it you had a chance to avoid this battle but went for it anyway? Maybe you're not supposed to win!

I'm assuming you are restricted to the arena magically, i.e., no flying away through the roof or tunneling into the ground?

I don't know. I think summoning something (creature or effect, like wall of force, "transmute ground" spells) that keeps it busy is a high priority to start with. You might want immunity to poison for the breath weapon...the bite, too, but if the bite gets you, you're likely already done. Immunity to acid, too, or some other way of avoiding breath weapons altogether.

A good punch-through-SR spell would help (not sure off-hand which ones come from 3.5 to PF, but I'm thinking the one that targets a single creature for SR -10 or +10 on CL checks for the combat). There was a nifty spell in 3.5 that was the CL version of true strike, but here we're talking about things your PCs would already need to have, which doesn't help you much.

But these things you likely thought of already, and you're looking for the cool secret trick...I'm not the guy who has that, but I'll keep reading to see who does.

Good luck.


I think you're hosed. Run.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
wraithstrike wrote:

If I can get a spell list I can probably think of something.

What is the Eidolon's attack bonus?

At least everyone has read my post closely before trying to help... :\

The links to the character sheets, which have all the info you should require, have been in the first post since the start of the thread.

wraithstrike wrote:
Tanis wrote:

Or ruin it's SR with 'Assay Spell Resistance' (Spell Comp.) then destroy it's saves with 'Crushing Despair' and 'Bestow Curse'.

Then go to town (to sell all your linnorm scales :).

Which reminds me what books are available?

Core rules only.

Carpjay wrote:

[edit: several posts above came in while I typed this...including the spell I was looking for. I did not have a chance to look at the PDFs of the PCs...sorry!]

Uh...wow. So by "lured you into it" do we take it you had a chance to avoid this battle but went for it anyway? Maybe you're not supposed to win!

I'm assuming you are restricted to the arena magically, i.e., no flying away through the roof or tunneling into the ground?

We knew we would be fighting in the arena against several monstrous opponents. The "lure" was the GM's description of how much fun it was going to be. What we didn't know, was that one of the beasties was going to be a CR 20 Tarn.

Flying and similar modes of movement aren't a problem. That's how we avoided the golems in the previous fight. We simply flew overhead and had the eidolon pick them up from 20 ft. away to be crushed.

The fight with the second golem even partially took place in the stands, so those aren't out of bounds either.

If there is anything keeping us from teleporting away, the GM has not yet brought it to our attention.


Ravingdork wrote:

At least everyone has read my post closely before trying to help... :\

The links to the character sheets, which have all the info you should require, have been in the first post since the start of the thread.

Yes, you did lay it all out for everyone, which I appreciate. Be advised, however, that the PDF links for the PCs scared me away...flashing ad-filled windows popping themselves open and not directly one-click to see the sheet, so I ended up never looking at them. The map, however, was a single click, nothing scary happening on my screen, so very easy to read and see.

Others may have had the same reaction, or maybe just missed the links; the only indicator I had that the PCs and monster and map were links was their slightly different formatting on my screen, so I can see folks missing them if their browser or screen itself does an underwhelming job of highlighting that for them.

Give it time, though...I expect by day's end you'll have some pretty creative solutions thrown your way.

Liberty's Edge

Ravingdork wrote:
We have a week before the next game in order to prepare a strategy. Please help save us from TPK.

I'm not too familiar with playing at that level so I don't have any suggestions. But I did want to ask: are you given perfect information on the creature you are fighting? I'm wondering how that played out before the fight. "Here is what you are fighting, feel free to look him up online to come up with a strategy".

I ask because I'm used to making knowledge rolls in order to come up with information on a creature.

Thanks.


Okay, obvious weak spots: Intelligence and touch AC.

Attack of "I hit you" and SR around 75% fail chance for a 15th level character.

Do note SR doesn't apply against all spells. Such as conjurations.

HP is one-round-killable, but would require a full round or a critical hit.
SR is a big issue as neither of you have anything to bypass SR that high. So, your best bets are going invisible (and hiding), distracting it with summons, drop in a wall of fire under the linnorm and trap it on the spot with wall of stone.

Frankly, I wouldn't give that tactic too good chances of success, though.

Summon three to five Vrocks and hit it with a Dance of Ruin? Hide + Summon may be your best bet here...


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Carpjay wrote:

Yes, you did lay it all out for everyone, which I appreciate. Be advised, however, that the PDF links for the PCs scared me away...flashing ad-filled windows popping themselves open and not directly one-click to see the sheet, so I ended up never looking at them. The map, however, was a single click, nothing scary happening on my screen, so very easy to read and see.

Others may have had the same reaction, or maybe just missed the links; the only indicator I had that the PCs and monster and map were links was their slightly different formatting on my screen, so I can see folks missing them if their browser or screen itself does an underwhelming job of highlighting that for them.

Give it time, though...I expect by day's end you'll have some pretty creative solutions thrown your way.

Using MediaFire to link to character sheets and other files is common practice on the WotC forums. If the flashing deterred you, than I guess it isn't quite so common here.


Summon Air Elementals, and have them all use Whirlwind. That should pin down the Linorm and buy you some time. Pin it down, and have the Eidolon and Summoner attack. Have the Sorceress launch continuious attack spells, everything she can.

Basically, the Linorm is too good to be beat with a SoD/SoS spell, is too maneuverable to be out-run, and too strong to confront directly, so you have very few options at your disposal. You could just summon hordes and let them fight until death in the hope they can weaken the Linorm, but that seems unlikely to actually work. You may be able to keep it off-balance while the Sorceress tries Charm Monster and Baleful Polymorph, looking for a nat1, but that's a long shot. Pin it with summons and try to beat the hell out of it.

It's too bad it can see through your invisibility, or I would suggest teleporting straight up, flying while invisible, and harrying it until it dies or you run out of spells.


Ravingdork wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:

If I can get a spell list I can probably think of something.

What is the Eidolon's attack bonus?

At least everyone has read my post closely before trying to help... :\

The links to the character sheets, which have all the info you should require, have been in the first post since the start of the thread.

I did not see those links until now. I think links should bold or be a darker blue. One more thing to harass Paizo about. :)


For convenience, the sorcerer's spell list.

7th-level (5/day) – elemental body IV, Falen’s phoenix (as delayed blast fireball), summon monster VII
6th-level (7/day) – beast shape IV, elemental body III, globe of invulnerability, greater dispel magic
5th-level (7/day) – baleful polymorph, cone of cold, elemental body II, summon monster V, teleport
4th-level (14/day) – charm monster, elemental body I, fire shield, greater invisibility, wall of fire
3rd-level (8/day) – Falen’s firebird (as fireball), fly, haste, lightning bolt, slow
2nd-level (8/day) – acid arrow, false life, flaming sphere, resist energy, scorching ray, see invisibility
1st-level (8/day) – burning hands, expeditious retreat, feather fall, mage armor, magic missile, shield
0-level (at will) – arcane mark, detect magic, flare, light, mage hand, mending, message, prestidigitation, read magic

And the summoner's:

5th-level (4/day) – greater heroism, summon monster V, teleport, wall of stone
4th-level (5/day) – greater invisibility, mass bear’s endurance, mass bull’s strength, overland flight
3rd-level (6/day) – fire shield, haste, slow, wall of fire, wall of ice
2nd-level (7/day) – barkskin, detect thoughts, invisibility, protection from arrows, resist energy, see invisibility
1st-level (7/day) – expeditious retreat, feather fall, grease, shield, protection from evil, unseen servant
0-level (at will) – detect magic, guidance, light, mage hand, message, open/close


Cool art on the character sheets and I really like Salamader but you are boned
You pissed off your DM and I dont think he was thinking when he picked that enemy or was thinking of a differnt Linnorm you might want to ask the DM if he ment the CR 20 one


The summoner should be summoning. I would use Treantmonk's guide for druid to help select summons. If you have room the earth element is not a bad choice, along with the eidolon. Haste and fly is your friend to cast on the earth elemental since they can't fly. If there is not room for the Earth elemental I would use the Air elemental. Still don't forget haste. If the summons are drawing fire the sorcerer and summoner should continue to buff. Replace summons as needed.

Edit: True Seeing only goes out to 60 feet IIRC, so if you can stay that far away from it invisibility may help.

Edit2: It goes out to 120.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Joey Virtue wrote:

Cool art on the character sheets and I really like Salamader but you are boned

You pissed off your DM and I dont think he was thinking when he picked that enemy or was thinking of a differnt Linnorm you might want to ask the DM if he ment the CR 20 one

Thanks for the kind comments. And yes, that was the FIRST thing I asked the GM. It went something like this: "You sure you don't mean one of the other linnorms? We are really fighting the CR 20 one?" ... "Yep."


Ravingdork wrote:
Joey Virtue wrote:

Cool art on the character sheets and I really like Salamader but you are boned

You pissed off your DM and I dont think he was thinking when he picked that enemy or was thinking of a differnt Linnorm you might want to ask the DM if he ment the CR 20 one
Thanks for the kind comments. And yes, that was the FIRST thing I asked the GM. It went something like this: "You sure you don't mean one of the other linnorms? We are really fighting the CR 20 one?" ... "Yep."

Tell us how it goes, and I hope you guys win initiative. Where did you guys get that art by the way?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
wraithstrike wrote:
Tell us how it goes, and I hope you guys win initiative. Where did you guys get that art by the way?

I sure will!

We get most of our art from www.deviantart.com.


I recommend sending Salamander in on round one as a distraction while you two casters cast Summon Monster 7 for Celestial Dire Tigers. Round two, you hit the tigers with Greater Heroism and Haste, and the tigers all declare their Smite Evil and pounce. That's six attacks per tiger at +25, each dealing a minimum of 24 damage (not counting the Augment Summoning bonuses). Provided you get at least four tigers to make it through the attacks of opportunity, that's better than even odds of taking down the Linnorm right there.

The real problem is that even if you win, you'll be stuck having a bunch of summons sit there beating the corpse up while you panhandle through the crowd for a cold iron weapon to cancel its regeneration.


Ravingdork wrote:
Carpjay wrote:

Yes, you did lay it all out for everyone, which I appreciate. Be advised, however, that the PDF links for the PCs scared me away...flashing ad-filled windows popping themselves open and not directly one-click to see the sheet, so I ended up never looking at them. The map, however, was a single click, nothing scary happening on my screen, so very easy to read and see.

Others may have had the same reaction, or maybe just missed the links; the only indicator I had that the PCs and monster and map were links was their slightly different formatting on my screen, so I can see folks missing them if their browser or screen itself does an underwhelming job of highlighting that for them.

Give it time, though...I expect by day's end you'll have some pretty creative solutions thrown your way.

Using MediaFire to link to character sheets and other files is common practice on the WotC forums. If the flashing deterred you, than I guess it isn't quite so common here.

Be careful, when the popups appeared for the Sorceress it set off my Malware blocker big time. Had to run a system clean to get rd of the trojan/ keylogger.


Disbelieve.

Oh, and pray...

Silver Crusade

Question: how is this creature able to teleport to follow? (not in description and it has an INT of 7.)

Question: Who the heck managed to capture a Linnorm to put it in the arena? Is it an illusion?

In any case, you're in a FUBAR situation. Best to go down swinging.

Win initiative or it's over.

The only creature capable of really harming this bad boy are Salamander and She'er, who only has only 25% of getting a spell to land.

SHE'ER: Splitting up (so Linnorn won't get both of ya). Cast Elemental Body I, becoming a small earth elemental, and use its "Earth Glide" movement ability to retreat far below the earth. Since the Linnorm has no burrow ability, it shouldn't be able to follow (much less know which way or how deep you went). Begin buffing self. Move around in case DM has Linnorm dig for you.

When done, Teleport to preset location to meet Durin.

DURIN: Teleport self and Eidolon to a preset location, maybe up in the clouds (using Feather Fall as immediate action, then casting Flight on self) and begin summoning everything you can (sounds weird, but suggesting tons of Lantern Archons...they fly, which gives you 3-D advantage, and they bypass DR with touch attacks. At +3 vs. touch AC10, they're hitting a lot, even for piddly damage. However, if you have 1d4+1 per casting, again and again, a small army can do a lot of damage. Being in flight means it'll take more time to pick them off.) I'd also pick the Vrock summon using SMVIII. They won't hit, but have some chance to harass with spores and resists.

- With 20/cold iron DR and 15 fast healing/cold iron, I don't believe you'll summon anything that can cause lasting damage, that's why I suggest an army of little "pingers." You can also summon some heavy hitters, but wow, keeping pace...Even the mighty Elder Earth Elemental only has a 50/50 chance of even hitting it, and after DR, for just as much damage as the lantern archons might do...

I'm still not convinced you can do the damage to defeat this thing, unless you get some really lucky rolls to bypass Spell Resistance or the Eidolon goes on a roll and can be kept alive.

I would have suggested bridging a Wall of Stone to immobilize the Linnorn (using pillars to buttress the Wall as per the spell description), but Durin's Charisma is low, meaning that the Linnorn is only trapped if it rolls a 1 on the Reflex Save. Just a far-fetched way to bypass the SR, then summon lantern archons to "ping" it when it can't move.

WOW, good luck?

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