Ideal items to buy with prestige.


Pathfinder Society

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Scarab Sages 1/5

Things I recommend buying with prestige:

At 2 points (750gp or less)

Wand of Cure Light Wounds
Wand of Magic Missile
Masterwork Mighty Composite Longbow (+2/3 str bonus)
Wand of Enlarge Person

At 1 point (150gp or less)

Potion of Lesser Restoration
... crickets ...

This is mostly useful to very low level characters but can seriously help them get a leg up and stay useful especially if your society mods often include the bonus encounter.


750 gp:
wand of resist energy (crafted by ranger)

700 gp:
dragonscale breastplate
composite longbow (+4 Str modifier)

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Matthew Trent wrote:

Things I recommend buying with prestige:

At 2 points (750gp or less)

Wand of Cure Light Wounds
Wand of Magic Missile
Masterwork Mighty Composite Longbow (+2/3 str bonus)
Wand of Enlarge Person

At 1 point (150gp or less)

Potion of Lesser Restoration
... crickets ...

This is mostly useful to very low level characters but can seriously help them get a leg up and stay useful especially if your society mods often include the bonus encounter.

Wand of Mage Armor:

At AC +4 for one hour duration this really can't be beat. It lets magic using types save one extra spell for something useful in combat or if purchased by a Monk (letting a Mage use it on them) you're talking about a nice bonus to AC at an early level.

Wand of Grease:

Even with its crappy save this is a good item to have around for all levels. I'd put this above a wand of magic missile in usefulness in combat.

The Exchange 5/5

Call me a pessimist, but I think as soon as a PC is high enough to play Tier 5 & up they should get a potion of gaseous form as a means to escape a hopeless situation. Last gameday I had a party trapped with no way back and as they dropped I thought "This is why everyone should carry a potion of gaseous form". It works great if you are in the hold of a ship or locked in a dungeon cell.


Matthew Trent wrote:

Things I recommend buying with prestige:

At 1 point (150gp or less)

Potion of Lesser Restoration
... crickets ...

This is mostly useful to very low level characters but can seriously help them get a leg up and stay useful especially if your society mods often include the bonus encounter.

I think spending 750gp for a wand of lesser restoration (crafted by a paladin) is a far better bet, and a good investment throughout your adventuring career.

Scarab Sages 1/5

WelbyBumpus wrote:


I think spending 750gp for a wand of lesser restoration (crafted by a paladin) is a far better bet, and a good investment throughout your adventuring career.

Is that legit? 'cause it smells fishy to me...

A perusal of the core book does suggest this is cool. Must just be the Limburger - often it smells like fish.

One note though a wand will still take 3 rounds to cast the spell so having a potion for combat use isn't a bad idea.

Doug Doug: Totally agree the two points for a 750 potion of Gaseous Form is much cheaper than the 16 (or more) for Raise Dead or the required version. Doesn't help with the insta-gibs that low level players fear but can defiantly get you out of a tight situation. Though the jailer who doesn't relive his prisoners of their magic gear deserves any escapes that happen.

Dark Archive 5/5

I don't know if it is allowed, but a wand of Infernal Healing would be very appropriate for 2 Cheliax prestige points...


Auke T wrote:
I don't know if it is allowed, but a wand of Infernal Healing would be very appropriate for 2 Cheliax prestige points...

It's allowed, and a great buy, but I've seen question as to whether a Good cleric can use the wand (the spell has the evil descriptor; if, as a result, it isn't on the good cleric's spell list at all, the good cleric couldn't use it).

Another point is that good clerics rarely *want* to use the thing.

5/5

I don't feel that wand of lesser restoration from paladin or wand of resist energy from ranger are legit. And I say that as a DM/player who encourages the group to make such items because of the benefits.

You can certainly buy a Wand of Infernal Healing, but I think the "(Asmodeus)" tag means you have to worship him to have the spell on your spell list. Evil tag would definitely be a no-no for good clerics also. Neither stops UMD for anyone though.

But two prestige points isn't going to net you such a rare find. Open market, those wands will sell for much much more.

For my Clr/Monk:
Wand of Cure Light
Wand of Mage Armor - has been well used - pretty much cheaper than bracers of armor +4 forever
Potion of Gaseous Form (thanks for the idea!)

Might be some new Ioun Stones worth purchasing (I just bought the +1 initiative one).

The Exchange 5/5

Majuba wrote:
I don't feel that wand of lesser restoration from paladin or wand of resist energy from ranger are legit. And I say that as a DM/player who encourages the group to make such items because of the benefits.

Majuba, I didn't care for the side-step provided by rangers & paladins crafting wands either but I could not find anything in the rules to disallow it. The PRPG rules clearly state the cost of a 1st level wand crafted by a ranger or paladin is 750GP. I don't like it, but if the players are clever enough to find such loopholes I can't stop them.

1/5

Majuba wrote:
But two prestige points isn't going to net you such a rare find. Open market, those wands will sell for much much more.

Uhm, hate to burst your bubble, but it's a first level Wiz/Sorc/Clr spell. It's 750 GP in PFS, and it's no more 'rare' or 'valuable' than any other wand crafted at caster level 1. 2 Prestige Points gets you the wand, period. This isn't even as ambiguous as the whole "Ranger/Paladin" wand deal.

Scarab Sages 1/5

Majuba wrote:
And I say that as a DM/player who encourages the group to make such items because of the benefits.

This seems a really odd statement on the PFS boards. You do know that magic item creation is vorboten right?

1/5

Matthew Trent wrote:
Majuba wrote:
And I say that as a DM/player who encourages the group to make such items because of the benefits.
This seems a really odd statement on the PFS boards. You do know that magic item creation is vorboten right?

Actually,I think that was his point. As someone who encourages such things in his home game, he still thinks it's wrong for a PFS game.


Alright, I went and looked through the rules about Paladin and Ranger spell-casting and here is what everyone is missing about them making wands.

First:

"The price of a wand is equal to the level of the spell × the creator’s caster level × 750 gp. If the wand has a material component cost, it is added to the base price and cost to create once for each charge (50 × material component cost)."

Second:

"Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is equal to her paladin level –3."

This is the same for Rangers, so this means that a Paladin's or Ranger's caster level when they get 1st level spells is 2, not 1, because they get 1st level spells starting at 5th level, and thus the cost of a wand for one of their 1st level spells is 1500gp, not 750gp, and not legal for purchase with PA. So the people posting earlier about not thinking this was legal were right and the price chart in the Wands section of the Core Book is wrong. That generic chart does not even factor in the potential material component cost for some spells made into wands.


Actually, they gain access to first level spells at 4th level, though they can't cast them unless they have bonus spells from their Charisma modifier (which is why there is a 0 there on their spells per day chart).

So that means they have a CL of 1 when they cast their first level spells which means the chart in the second printing of the Core and in the errata for the first printing that says a 1st level Paladin wand is 750 gp is correct.

That said, that's a loop hole I'm going to plug in v2.2. All wands, scrolls, potions etc should be considered to be either made by a cleric or made by a wizard/sorcerer unless the spell in question isn't on either of those spells lists. Since lesser restoration is a cleric spell, you can't buy (in PFS) a wand of lesser restoration for 750 gp because it's not a 1st-level cleric spell.

The Exchange 5/5

Hoo-ray! Josh is my hero!

5/5

Thanks for the update Josh!

Chris Kenney wrote:
Majuba wrote:
But two prestige points isn't going to net you such a rare find. Open market, those wands will sell for much much more.
Uhm, hate to burst your bubble, but it's a first level Wiz/Sorc/Clr spell. It's 750 GP in PFS, and it's no more 'rare' or 'valuable' than any other wand crafted at caster level 1. 2 Prestige Points gets you the wand, period. This isn't even as ambiguous as the whole "Ranger/Paladin" wand deal.

Sorry! - that line was referring to the ranger/paladin thing - I inserted the Infernal Healing afterward. My apologies for the confusion. Definitely purchasable.


Joshua J. Frost wrote:

Actually, they gain access to first level spells at 4th level, though they can't cast them unless they have bonus spells from their Charisma modifier (which is why there is a 0 there on their spells per day chart).

So that means they have a CL of 1 when they cast their first level spells which means the chart in the second printing of the Core and in the errata for the first printing that says a 1st level Paladin wand is 750 gp is correct.

That said, that's a loop hole I'm going to plug in v2.2. All wands, scrolls, potions etc should be considered to be either made by a cleric or made by a wizard/sorcerer unless the spell in question isn't on either of those spells lists. Since lesser restoration is a cleric spell, you can't buy (in PFS) a wand of lesser restoration for 750 gp because it's not a 1st-level cleric spell.

So that means the chart in the Core Book assumes the Ranger or Paladin gets bonus spell slots and can cast 1st level spells when they are 4th level and make a wand with them. I am glad you are closing this loophole, because assuming that any random Paladin or Ranger you could buy a wand from just happens to get bonus slots and can make a wand at 4th level is stretching things. And yes, I know they can also intentionally cast their spells at a lower level than what they actually are, but that is stretching things for PFS play also.

Scarab Sages 1/5

Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
So that means the chart in the Core Book assumes the Ranger or Paladin gets bonus spell slots and can cast 1st level spells when they are 4th level and make a wand with them. I am glad you are closing this loophole, because assuming that any random Paladin or Ranger you could buy a wand from just happens to get bonus slots and can make a wand at 4th level is stretching things. And yes, I know they can also intentionally cast their spells at a lower level than what they actually are, but that is stretching things for PFS play also.

What i find more hard to belive are that there are any ranger or paladins out there with craft wand at all.

The Exchange 5/5

Matthew Trent wrote:


What i find more hard to belive are that there are any ranger or paladins out there with craft wand at all.

There's likely very few, but business sure is good. Think of them as proctologists. It's not a very popular field but it pays really well.


Joshua J. Frost wrote:
That said, that's a loop hole I'm going to plug in v2.2. All wands, scrolls, potions etc should be considered to be either made by a cleric or made by a wizard/sorcerer unless the spell in question isn't on either of those spells lists. Since lesser restoration is a cleric spell, you can't buy (in PFS) a wand of lesser restoration for 750 gp because it's not a 1st-level cleric spell.

So basically, if a 1st level spell is unique to the druid, bard, paladin, ranger, or any of the new APG spell caster spell lists. then it is assumed in PFS that you can find an NPC of that class offering wands of those 1st level spells through your faction for 2AP?


I feel like I'm going to just re-quote myself here, so I'll just say that what you quoted from me above stands.

As for the APG, it's not a final product yet and I'm not yet ready to make any declarations about it.

Sovereign Court

Joshua J. Frost wrote:
That said, that's a loop hole I'm going to plug in v2.2. All wands, scrolls, potions etc should be considered to be either made by a cleric or made by a wizard/sorcerer unless the spell in question isn't on either of those spells lists. Since lesser restoration is a cleric spell, you can't buy (in PFS) a wand of lesser restoration for 750 gp because it's not a 1st-level cleric spell.

How will this affect characters who have already purchased Paladin/Ranger crafted items?


They'll need to sell them back less the value of the used charges.

For example, a wand of lesser restoration normally has 50 charges, but if you bought it as a paladin wand and used 25 charges already, you need to sell it back for 375 gp.

Sovereign Court

Fair enough.

What if they had bought it with PA? In the case of 25 charges used, then it seems that they would get 1PA for it, but when the numbers don't divide so well it's not so simple.


Good point. In the case of PA, if you used 25 or less charges, you get 1 PA back, if you used more than 25 charges, you get no PA back, if you spent no charges, you get 2 PA back.

3/5

Matthew Trent wrote:

Things I recommend buying with prestige:

Masterwork Mighty Composite Longbow (+2/3 str bonus)

Honest question: Isn't this (a masterwork mighty bow) an "always available" item? Purchasing the +1 magical version of it is. A "mighty" composite longbow is a standard item. I guess the question is: are masterwork weapons and armor "always available" because +1 magical version of them are?

-Swiftbrook

Just My Thoughts

3/5

Joshua J. Frost wrote:

Actually, they gain access to first level spells at 4th level, though they can't cast them unless they have bonus spells from their Charisma modifier (which is why there is a 0 there on their spells per day chart).

So that means they have a CL of 1 when they cast their first level spells which means the chart in the second printing of the Core and in the errata for the first printing that says a 1st level Paladin wand is 750 gp is correct.

That said, that's a loop hole I'm going to plug in v2.2. All wands, scrolls, potions etc should be considered to be either made by a cleric or made by a wizard/sorcerer unless the spell in question isn't on either of those spells lists. Since lesser restoration is a cleric spell, you can't buy (in PFS) a wand of lesser restoration for 750 gp because it's not a 1st-level cleric spell.

A thought: As a PFS class benefit, could a paladin/ranger/druid who can cast the spell, be able to purchase a wand of ___insert_spell_name___ at the reduced paladin/ranger/bard cost? The ruling, while making a level playing field, makes the cost potentially higher than it could be for a paladin/ranger/bard.

-Swiftbrook
Just My Thought
don't shoot me for thinking outside the box.

Dark Archive 5/5

Joshua J. Frost wrote:
Good point. In the case of PA, if you used 25 or less charges, you get 1 PA back, if you used more than 25 charges, you get no PA back, if you spent no charges, you get 2 PA back.

Or exchange it for an available 1st level wand with the same number of charges? (That way you aren't screwed if you used 1 charge)

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Swiftbrook wrote:
Matthew Trent wrote:

Things I recommend buying with prestige:

Masterwork Mighty Composite Longbow (+2/3 str bonus)

Honest question: Isn't this (a masterwork mighty bow) an "always available" item? Purchasing the +1 magical version of it is. A "mighty" composite longbow is a standard item. I guess the question is: are masterwork weapons and armor "always available" because +1 magical version of them are?

-Swiftbrook

Just My Thoughts

Yes, masterwork armor and weapons from the core rulebook are "Always Available".

I know what you're thinking, and tons of people have already asked the same question and gotten an answer on here. Can someone please direct him to the thread that clarifies the difference between using PA for an item 750gp or less and using max PA to determine what's available to you?

Thanks, and have a good day :)


This will be clarified much, much more clearly in 2.2 using the language we established for the Faction Guide.


Auke T wrote:
Or exchange it for an available 1st level wand with the same number of charges? (That way you aren't screwed if you used 1 charge)

Yeah, that seems like a better solution.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

Joshua J. Frost wrote:
Auke T wrote:
Or exchange it for an available 1st level wand with the same number of charges? (That way you aren't screwed if you used 1 charge)
Yeah, that seems like a better solution.

Whew, I'm glad :)


Joshua J. Frost wrote:


That said, that's a loop hole I'm going to plug in v2.2. All wands, scrolls, potions etc should be considered to be either made by a cleric or made by a wizard/sorcerer unless the spell in question isn't on either of those spells lists. Since lesser restoration is a cleric spell, you can't buy (in PFS) a wand of lesser restoration for 750 gp because it's not a 1st-level cleric spell.

Its not a 'loop hole' but simple core rules.

And I take it (snarkily) that bards won't be able to buy scrolls of half or more of their spells that they can read without a UMD check?

Likewise a druid has to go to a cleric to get a scroll of a druid spell cause it might also be on the cleric list?

*boggle*

It's a silly rule, and doesn't add anything to the game. What's the point? When you make rules for a game there should be a point to them, and whatever the point of this one has I think is more hype and hyperbole than anything else.

Congrats you've now made a 25gp scroll more rare than a 120k+ gp holy avenger in pathfinder society! Silliness.

-James


There are aspects of the game that work well in a home game and do not work well in a world-wide, balanced, organized play campaign.

Beyond that, we shall agree to disagree.

1/5

Way way way confused. I'm not trying to be argumentative or make anyone re-qoute themselves, but I am in no state of mind to really try and figure this out. I have a PFS game tomorrow at our FLGS. I am playing a bard. I really wanted to buy a want of cure light wounds with my prestige award points (I don't have access any other way). It is on the bard spell list, but spells cast by bards are arcane and cure light wounds is technically a divine spell (I think and will happily be told I'm wrong). So can I buy a 1st level wand of cure light wounds or not? Again I'm genuinely confused, and at the moment can't figure it out.

Thank you for any help.


You can buy and use a wand of cure light wounds because it's (a) on the cleric spell list and is (b) on your spell list.

All expendable items that use spells are assumed to have been made by a cleric or a wizard unless the spell in question is NOT on either of those lists. If the spell is not on either of those lists, then it is made as an item from the appropriate class and spell list. This prevents lesser restoration wands going for 750 gp.

1/5

Joshua J. Frost wrote:
stuff...

Thank a ton for making it crystal clear. (mind not operating right due to a four legged furry variety one passing on).

Scarab Sages 1/5

Joshua J. Frost wrote:

There are aspects of the game that work well in a home game and do not work well in a world-wide, balanced, organized play campaign.

Beyond that, we shall agree to disagree.

I'm a little unclear on how this causes problems in an organized play system. The rule in the book is pretty clear. I suppose it might cause issues because some people know about the rule and use it to their "advantage" and others do not. Though given this is true of any rule I'm not sure why it's better in this particular case. Or why this isn't solved by discussing the rule and educating players about it.

Frankly, it feels like it's a pet peeve that some people would like to do away with. I prefer organized play because the game is played by the book and not changed to suit the whims of various GMs who feel the rules should "make sense" when invariably the change creates more playability problems than it solves.

1/5

aptinuviel wrote:
Joshua J. Frost wrote:

There are aspects of the game that work well in a home game and do not work well in a world-wide, balanced, organized play campaign.

Beyond that, we shall agree to disagree.

I'm a little unclear on how this causes problems in an organized play system. The rule in the book is pretty clear. I suppose it might cause issues because some people know about the rule and use it to their "advantage" and others do not. Though given this is true of any rule I'm not sure why it's better in this particular case. Or why this isn't solved by discussing the rule and educating players about it.

Frankly, it feels like it's a pet peeve that some people would like to do away with. I prefer organized play because the game is played by the book and not changed to suit the whims of various GMs who feel the rules should "make sense" when invariably the change creates more playability problems than it solves.

Possibly because having cheap access to Restoration and other such spells is clearly not the "intended" or "playable" result? The things which you need that spell for are meant to be a real hazard at low levels, and PFS is already pretty nice by letting you handwave off the ones you'll run into between adventures.

Liberty's Edge 1/5

aptinuviel wrote:

I'm a little unclear on how this causes problems in an organized play system. The rule in the book is pretty clear. I suppose it might cause issues because some people know about the rule and use it to their "advantage" and others do not. Though given this is true of any rule I'm not sure why it's better in this particular case. Or why this isn't solved by discussing the rule and educating players about it.

Frankly, it feels like it's a pet peeve that some people would like to do away with. I prefer organized play because the game is played by the book and not changed to suit the whims of various GMs who feel the rules should "make sense" when invariably the change creates more playability problems than it solves.

+1 vote in agreement.

I haven't had need of any of these wands (beyond CLW), and I'm level 5. I've always known they were there and available at 750, I just honestly never wanted to buy one.


This isn't a new rule to 3.0 and 3.5-based organized play systems.


Joshua J. Frost wrote:
This isn't a new rule to 3.0 and 3.5-based organized play systems.

But it's not a GOOD rule either.

It's simply a silly reaction to 'how things should be' even though they are different from the CORE rules.

People argued that a CL 1 potion of enlarge person should cost 250gp for these 'balance' reasons, yet you craft them for 25gp (in those organized play systems that allowed crafting).

As for the other poster's 'not intended'.. I'm sorry these are the CORE rules.

Under Josh's PFS house rule you would have the following situations:

1. Bards cannot purchase scrolls of 'cleric' spells that they can read.
2. A 4th level ranger (for example) would need to make caster level checks to read scrolls of many ranger spells because they would not be available at 1st caster level, even though they can cast them that way.
3. Druids of several levels would have to make caster level checks to read scrolls of spells that they could memorize and cast because the cleric spells are higher level.

I'm sorry, but which of these really is 'not intended'?

It's a knee-jerk reaction to 'what's supposed to be' rather than what the CORE rules really allow.

Josh can house rule whatever he wishes, but it does go against one of the main draws of organized play: to avoid annoying house rules.

There's nothing about the nature of organized play that mandates that Bards never make scrolls, or that a Paladin or Ranger couldn't elect to take craft wand.

Heck in the Pathfinder rules 'Experts' can craft items without having any casting capability whatsoever. To say that only Wizards & Clerics make items is absurd. I mean if a Druid buys a dozen scrolls of entangle, are we saying that a cleric is the one scribing all of them or a druid? (Plant domain clerics have it on their spell list)

So yes Josh, you and I do disagree here. There's nothing about organized play that is involved here- only a false perception of what's 'abuse' rather than simply core rules. It's a needless house rule, and that is something that I despise (needless rules).

I'm not sure what even the objection here is. So let me take guesses.

Is there an abstraction on 'scarcity' of items? Hell yes. It is ONLY based upon gp value, rather than ease of creation/usefulness of the item. Here a suit of +5 heavy fortification SCALE MAIL is just as common as the same insanely costing enchantment on an armor that one would actually wear! Likewise a +2 holy obscure weapon #57 is just as common as a +2 holy longsword. Does it make 100% sense? No, but that is a sacrifice that the CORE rules makes, and that an organized play situation would need to make even if the CORE rules did not.

-James


Again, I appreciate that you disagree with me--disagree quite vehemently in fact--and I've taken your point into consideration.


Matthew Trent wrote:

Things I recommend buying with prestige:

At 1 point (150gp or less)

Potion of Lesser Restoration
... crickets ...

To this list I would list a few 2nd level spells that are useful on scrolls:

(Divine)
Silence (when you run out of the ones you memorize)
Delay Poison (when you can run to get a neutralize)
Remove Paralysis (throw someone back in the fight)
Align Weapon (good, etc)
Gust of Wind (against cloudkills, etc)
Wood Shape

(Arcane)
Command Undead (vs unintelligent undead)
Glitterdust (not for the blindness)
See Invis
Gust of Wind (still against cloudkills etc)

-James

Sovereign Court 2/5

Hi

I'd add Wand of Shield to that list. (And True Strike)?
My Sorc/Paladin has ASF from his armour, but none from wands. (He uses 2H Gt Axe).

I'll second Wands of Mage Armour, but Endure Elements is useful for some scenarios........

Cheers
Paul H

Liberty's Edge 4/5 RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Wand of longstrider is like having boots of striding and springing for your whole party.

Wand of cure light is almost like a 2 PA adventuring tax. My PFS group played the Asmodeus Mirage last night and the only reason we survived was that 4 of us had a "happy stick."


Charlie Bell wrote:
Wand of longstrider is like having boots of striding and springing for your whole party.

Not really; since it's a Personal range spell, you have to use the wand yourself.

1/5

Charlie Bell wrote:
Wand of cure light is almost like a 2 PA adventuring tax. My PFS group played the Asmodeus Mirage last night and the only reason we survived was that 4 of us had a "happy stick."

I'm going to beat you with the "happy stick" now...wait isn't that kind of self defeating...no I mean heal you now...LOL.

I was there for that PFS night & it's too true. It's a good thing only 4 out of the 8 crits were confirmed by that awful GM. We even had him try and roll digitally...it didn't work. He still rolled a 19.

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